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LarcatOfRens
Posted - 2010.03.11 05:18:00 - [1]
 

Only posting about this because you can lose money without falling for the scam.

I was advertising some expensive stuff I am selling currently over contracts.

Someone contacted me asking to buy 2 of these now in the range which my autions were asking. I agreed, and we agreed that I would make a personal contract to the individual for the 2 items. I did so, and the person claimed to be 5 mil short of the preagreed price. They then tried setting up contract offers with the price reverse, short three digits, all the normal stuff. I knew at the point that they were "shot 5 mil" that they were attempting to scam.

The issue with this is, of course, I was out the brokerage on my preexistant contracts at the point I cancelled them.

I bring this up simply to say, if someone offers to buy out standing auctions you have up, have them author the private WTB contract before you cancel out your existant contracts.

I only lost a few mil because of the lost brokerage, but it was an idiotic mistake, and I can see others making it. I doubt anyone in here would fall for the fumbling post contract cancellation scam attempts, but the initial contract cancellation I can see being pretty easy for others as well to do, and losing that brokerage is annoying.

Riethe
Posted - 2010.03.11 05:29:00 - [2]
 

1. This belongs in C&P

2. Scammers don't make you cancel your contract because they want you to lose the broker fees. That's your fault.

What you should have done was send him the 5 million ISK difference so he could accept the existing contract. There's no way this could have gone wrong.

LarcatOfRens
Posted - 2010.03.11 05:41:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: LarcatOfRens on 11/03/2010 05:46:47
Edited by: LarcatOfRens on 11/03/2010 05:43:09
Originally by: Riethe
1. This belongs in C&P

2. Scammers don't make you cancel your contract because they want you to lose the broker fees. That's your fault.

What you should have done was send him the 5 million ISK difference so he could accept the existing contract. There's no way this could have gone wrong.


I'm aware that the point was not to make me lose my brokerage. Thanks for illuminating, there.

I posted this here instead of C&P because it relates more to market mechanics than C&Ps normal blah blah.

The point was, be careful about blowing your brokerage as a side effect of someone seeming to negotiate for a sale in good faith. Thats it, the long and short.

Sending them 5 m at that point would have simply seen me out brokerage + 5 m. Not sure why you are advocating that when the proper response is to ask them to make a private WTB contract, which I did, which is when the missing digit/reversed direction attempts started. Which is when I started drooling on myself out of boredom.

The issue here is if you do not have multiples of the items, you can't create new sell contracts on items that are already for sale in preexistant contracts. Because of this, if someone contacts you with a proposed buyout on a standing auction with no bids and you agree to the price, you need to have them create a private WTB contract in order to have a reasonable assurance that you won't lose your existant brokerage as a result of the subsequent scam attempt. Of course, they can just throw up a genuine WTB contract to you, but can cancel it quickly enough for you to still be out the brokerage.

*shrug*

Riethe
Posted - 2010.03.11 05:57:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: LarcatOfRens
Sending them 5 m at that point would have simply seen me out brokerage + 5 m. Not sure why you are advocating that when the proper response is to ask them to make a private WTB contract, which I did, which is when the missing digit/reversed direction attempts started.

Sarcasm, dude.

Still:
This isn't new. And it belongs in C&P.

Your fault.

This is like telling someone to not hit themselves in the head with a hammer.

Any other cool stuff you want to share with the class?

LarcatOfRens
Posted - 2010.03.11 06:12:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Riethe
Originally by: LarcatOfRens
Sending them 5 m at that point would have simply seen me out brokerage + 5 m. Not sure why you are advocating that when the proper response is to ask them to make a private WTB contract, which I did, which is when the missing digit/reversed direction attempts started.

Sarcasm, dude.

Still:
This isn't new. And it belongs in C&P.

Your fault.

This is like telling someone to not hit themselves in the head with a hammer.

Any other cool stuff you want to share with the class?


Not sure where the hostility is coming from.

Just as it was my screw up which lost the brokerage, it was your screw up clicking a a thread which you were predisposed to flame.

Don't get why you are stamping your foot demanding that this go in C&P instead of here. It is about brokerage, contracts and mechanics.

Riethe
Posted - 2010.03.11 06:22:00 - [6]
 

Title of this thread: New scam form, be alert.


Crime and Punishment
Warn others of the latest scam



No hostility. This "scam" is still not new, nor is it in the right place.

Drab Cane
Carbenadium Industries
Posted - 2010.03.11 07:59:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: LarcatOfRens
I bring this up simply to say, if someone offers to buy out standing auctions you have up, have them author the private WTB contract before you cancel out your existant contracts.


I realize that these and other scams are old hat to Riethe, but some of us are more naive.

Thanks for the advice, Larcat. It's warnings and advice like this tidbit that help the rest of us keep a healthy sense of paranoia.


Riethe
Posted - 2010.03.11 08:29:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Drab Cane
I realize that these and other scams are old hat to Riethe, but some of us are more naive.

Thanks for the advice, Larcat. It's warnings and advice like this tidbit that help the rest of us keep a healthy sense of paranoia.



The problem I have here is not that it's old, but that it would be inaccurate to say the scam here was to cost someone their broker fees.

It's entirely possible that someone might do that, but it doesn't benefit anyone.

Creating a contract missing zeros is not new. Drab, you've seen someone offering to buy something for 1,000,000 instead of 1,000,000,000, right? This is the same thing. Except with an actual interaction, rather than setting a contract and hoping someone fills it. Instead of hoping a victim comes to him, the scammer sought out a victim to hopefully trick with his contract.

And for those that are naive, the EVE Scam Guide (wip) can hopefully help players understand some of the various approaches they might not otherwise be aware of.

Demolishar
Posted - 2010.03.11 08:57:00 - [9]
 

I make people issue a private Want To Buy contract to me, and only cancel the public contract after checking the WTB several times to ensure its legitimacy.

Alice Celadon
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.03.11 08:58:00 - [10]
 

Actually Riethe, as seems to be often the case, you are dead wrong. I thought you fashioned yourself a compleat scammer?

Getting the mark to unwittingly invest time/money/attention/emotions/conversation/lost brokerage fees is the BEST way to get them to make a mistake or cross a line they normally wouldn't cross. "In for a penny, in for a pound" is the unfortunate human tendency for the prey of the scammer.

I suspect that you know this, or something close to this, but as per your usual you're more interested in looking "superior" to other people than illuminating or explicating anything interesting.

I challenge you to retort to this without making yourself seem like an utter n00b and attention-grubbing jackdonkey.

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2010.03.11 09:57:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Hel O''Ween on 11/03/2010 09:56:43
Originally by: Riethe

Thanks for the advice, Larcat. It's warnings and advice like this tidbit that help the rest of us keep a healthy sense of paranoia.



He didn't say so. Reread his post again.

He said although he didn't fall for the scam (which was the "leave some 0s out at the end"), it still cost him money, due to the broker fees he lost when cancelling the outstanding contracts. He also said, that the later was solely his mistake

Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
Posted - 2010.03.11 10:01:00 - [12]
 

its a common tactic, and I lost a few brokers fees in the beginning, now i never take down a contract before i have a wtb contract from the buyer, setup in advance!

Lui Kai
Better Than You
Posted - 2010.03.11 11:04:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Riethe
Title of this thread: New scam form, be alert.


Crime and Punishment
Warn others of the latest scam



No hostility. This "scam" is still not new, nor is it in the right place.
'

Thank you, forum police, for saving us. Without you, we might have missed a portion of the other relevant and wonderful threads happening in MD.

Zero Cooper
Posted - 2010.03.11 12:20:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Zero Cooper on 11/03/2010 12:22:50
Riethe, just stop. Nobody cares. Obviously, the OP would have called his thread something more along the lines of "Unintended consequence of a scam that many people may not have experienced before" if he'd been shooting for 100% exactitude in the title.

No, the loss of broker fees doesn't, in itself, constitute a scam. Still, it's a consequence of taking down an existing contract in order to create a new one (for somebody who tries and fails to scam you) that many may not have considered before. (And if it isn't a scam, which you readily argue, then why would his post go into C&P anyway?)

If it's not new information to you, then that's awesome. If so, maybe you weren't the intended audience.

Mr Bussy
Posted - 2010.03.11 12:31:00 - [15]
 

it is never bad to share this info (even repeatedly), thanks LarcatOfRens.

Riethe, please just stfu :)

Maneck StreetPreacher
Gallente
haudquaquam munificus
Posted - 2010.03.11 13:04:00 - [16]
 

As someone new to EvE, selling things on a small scale, this was a greatly helpful point. Would not have thought of asking for a buy contract.

Thanks OP.

LarcatOfRens
Posted - 2010.03.11 14:58:00 - [17]
 

Glad the rest of you got what I was getting at.


o7

CCP Shadow


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.03.11 15:59:00 - [18]
 

This actually does belong in Crime and Punishment, the thread's new home.

Dzil Alt
Caldari
SafeHouse Investments of Tautology
Posted - 2010.03.11 16:42:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Ji Sama
its a common tactic, and I lost a few brokers fees in the beginning, now i never take down a contract before i have a wtb contract from the buyer, setup in advance!


Right on, Ji. I've only dabbled in the contract reselling of officer mods, but the half dozen or so attempts to negotiate the price of items I had on contract were all scam attempts.






Thrasymachus TheSophist
Posted - 2010.03.11 17:51:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Thrasymachus TheSophist on 11/03/2010 17:52:33
Originally by: Riethe
Scammers don't make you cancel your contract because they want you to lose the broker fees.


Originally by: Riethe
The problem I have here is not that it's old, but that it would be inaccurate to say the scam here was to cost someone their broker fees.

It's entirely possible that someone might do that, but it doesn't benefit anyone.



More genius from the peanut gallery scam-Lord wannabe.

Seriously ... to suggest that someone in EVE won't engage in an activity that does not benefit them at all just to cause the other person some loss? OMG REALLY? PEOPLE DO THAT IN THIS GAME???

Tricking someone into losing their own money, even if you don't get it, is both griefing and a scam. And its extremely commonplace. And cheers to the OP for the PSA.

Riethe
Posted - 2010.03.11 22:32:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist
More genius from the peanut gallery scam-Lord wannabe.

Seriously ... to suggest that someone in EVE won't engage in an activity that does not benefit them at all just to cause the other person some loss? OMG REALLY? PEOPLE DO THAT IN THIS GAME???

Tricking someone into losing their own money, even if you don't get it, is both griefing and a scam. And its extremely commonplace. And cheers to the OP for the PSA.

As I said, it's not impossible, but very, very unlikely.

But since you are such an avid follower of my posting (!!!) you would know that I refer to two different levels of scammers:

One being a very young individual. The kind that throws a rock at a car because his friend pressured him. Or litters toilet paper onto a random residence "just because."

This young mind is not typically capable of thinking far enough ahead to say "Oh, man, today, I'm totally going to find someone with an expensive contract, and trick him into cancelling it so he can lose the broker fees!" And then be satisfied with that. There's very little gratification present, unless it is a chosen target. Even then, someone who is spending 5+ million ISK on broker fees is probably doing pretty good for themselves, so the loss is negligible.

Unless it is some very personal agenda being executed by someone repeatedly on the same target. But you'd think they would wise up.

The other type of scammer generally has no intent to "grief" or be malicious in this sense, even though they're clearly aware that it's possible to do.

I don't log in game and scam someone so they can lose money--I do it so I can gain money. If the scam doesn't go through and broker fees were lost in the process, it's unfortunate for both parties, but it wasn't the goal in mind.


Again, this is the same kind of thing as you can read here. Except instead of convincing the victim to switch to use a trade window, this guy tried to switch to running his own contract.

That scam was posted over a month ago. Players have been convincing their victims to follow their instructions so they can have control of the situation for years.

It should be pretty obvious to most players (especially the real life accountants and bankers and morons of the MD forum) that when dealing with contracts, you'd never cancel one for a guy who is short 5 million ISK, or do anything on his behalf for that matter.

MicroWarpdrive II
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.03.12 06:03:00 - [22]
 

WARNING, IF YOU CANCEL YOUR CONTRACT YOU ARE BEING SCAMMED. BE CAREFUL!

FOR MORE INFORMATION CONVO OR EVEMAIL ME IN GAME AND I'LL HAPPILY REPLY, FOR A NOMINAL FEE.

Zar Terra
Posted - 2010.03.12 07:25:00 - [23]
 

*facepalm*

This doesn't belong in C&P either, since this is not a scam.
No-one is making ISK off of this, as broker fees are a game mechanic.

KtoJest
Minmatar
Silkroad Partners
Posted - 2010.03.12 10:46:00 - [24]
 

retitle the post to something like 'the mechanics of contracts', use the case in point as an example relating to something in 'mechanics of contracts. repost. :)


Gladys Pank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
Posted - 2010.03.12 20:02:00 - [25]
 

What's happening in this thread?

Oh look Riethe trying to be important again Rolling Eyes


 

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