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CCP Nimbus

Posted - 2010.03.11 17:06:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Avalon Ranger
Edited by: Avalon Ranger on 11/03/2010 13:35:54
There are a few roads this could take along the way. Here are two basic routes that I can forsee but as this is early alpha it's nice to just talk about the idea. Anything could happen.

1) Cheap and easy to setup, allows for people that like micro-management to have something to do but the overall output would be relatively cheap produce. Planets are instanced meaning that 50 people could be using the same planet without knowing it. This would take a lot more database calls and entries but it could work out.

TL;DR - Cheap, easy, less realistic but fun.

2) Expensive to setup, taking a lot of resources to launch these structure down to the surface. 5 people per planet, perhaps (In high sec) you can rent area of the planet much like people "buy" areas of our own moon. 0.0 is the same but the controlling alliance of the territory can control the planet, give areas to people. Giving the richer areas to some people and poorer areas to other. All areas of the planet will have SOME resources even if it's just trace amount meaning that it'll be usable but no where near as good as rich areas.

TL;DR - Requires some management, skill and investment. More profitable, more fun, fits in the same way POS's does or should.

Any thoughts on these two? To be honest I like the second one more but I don't like the idea of shutting people out but the current system doesn't feel very EVE like at all. Not yet anyway.


Questions like this are probably best aimed at the devblog comment thread, however I can say that we are aiming for something which includes elements of both your options. We do want this to be easily accesable, though.

Kaaii
Caldari
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
KAAII-NET
Posted - 2010.03.11 18:07:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Kaaii on 11/03/2010 18:11:23
Difference between links and routes?

links are like silo production?
routes are.....? just to move stuff?

They don't seem to be showing up at all when i scroll out. When i hover between two they show green,,but screens i have seen look like a web. What am i doing wrong?

/edit ok i can see them on a gas planet, maybe is because its a lava? (they are black)



Jack bubu
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.03.11 18:32:00 - [93]
 

One thing i noticed is when i set a extractor route to a facility it only submits the amount of materials the facility needs for one run, the rest vanishes..

Is this intentional? :)

FOSX1
Posted - 2010.03.11 18:39:00 - [94]
 

Leadership skills play a role in all this mining thing ?

like mining foreman , mining director etc

Cause if i'm a miner i should mine more and faster then athors that trained torp 5


RootEmerger
Posted - 2010.03.11 18:44:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Kaaii
Edited by: Kaaii on 11/03/2010 18:11:23
Difference between links and routes?




With a link you open a path between two stations, then with the route you decide in wich direction materials should go and houw much by time segments - lets say you have on planet a gold and carbon extractors, a processor that build them into nanoelectrical parts but on planet there's no silcon deposits so you have to get that from another planet
so the route should be extractors->processor->command center, but then command center->processor->back to command center to process nanoelectrical parts and silica into nano computer cores.
Looks like you need a link for each single component (and each direction the process require) so a finer contorl about -what- you are moving will be required in future iteraction of this beta.

Kaaii
Caldari
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
KAAII-NET
Posted - 2010.03.11 18:55:00 - [96]
 



wow, thanks for that...

Im not clear on how i get materials (from oher planets) to the missing ones.
I have also had a hard time finding carbon on any of the 7 planets Im messing with. I set up a whole chain to make nanite paste and then found that while there might be a scan of 4 days worth, it says ZERO extracted per cycle. Not sure about that one....



Shandas
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.03.11 19:16:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Jack bubu
One thing i noticed is when i set a extractor route to a facility it only submits the amount of materials the facility needs for one run, the rest vanishes..

Is this intentional? :)


Nope you can set a second route to the PCC to put the extra there.

I have mine set up so that all extractors go to the PCC and drop the resources there, all this through an upgraded link to handle the load.

Then I dropped a field of processors, something like 5.
I link (Upgraded) one to the the PCC and then link (doesn't need upgraded) the others to the 'Main Hub processor'.

Then I choose what I want to make for each processor.
Then I plan a route for each processor back to the PCC.
Then I plan routes for each processor from the PCC to the processor, a new menu allowing you to select a resource will show up when creating this route.

That way everything from the extractors goes to one place and then gets shipped to the processors (there is no times delay currently shipping is automatic from the PCC to where ever).
I don't have to figure out how much a extractor is pulling and then how much of it a processor needs and then plan a route for the extra to the PCC where the extra will build up anyway.

It elimates a step, as everytime a extractor depeletes and you have to drop another one you have to do the math and the extra route. If you just use the PCC to service the Processors you only have to drop a new extractor and then plan one route with no math.

To me it's a bit simpler this way as I only have to watch the PCC to see how resources are doing.

Malen Nenokal
The Nightshift
Posted - 2010.03.11 19:18:00 - [98]
 

In planetary view mode, will we be getting lower compression planet textures? That would be really nice considering how close you can and will zoom in on the planet's surface.

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2010.03.11 20:18:00 - [99]
 

planetary interaction looks pretty nice, I am already drooling over all freighters extracting stuff from planets...

Anyhow, few things I'd like to bring up:

- Need clear icons for interface, so we don't need to guess what is producing what and so on. Also how much and where is important.
- Other thing is that I hope when planets are made they're made in a way that they can be changed so i.e. if all command centers need to be moved from land into sea it's not impossible because it would break so many things afterwards. >.<

I'm pretty sure current version is quite unfinished though ;P

Alexander Det1989
Caldari
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
Chained Reactions
Posted - 2010.03.11 20:42:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Alexander Det1989 on 11/03/2010 20:49:10
I can't see anything on the planets at all, can't see any installations, can't scan anything. Anyone else running on a crappy computer have this problem?

Edit: Finally found an installation, but it was by complete fluke, at a certain angle I saw a broken up black graphic flash up for a second was then able to interact... still, was almost fully zoomed in and had deliberately just placed it so I might be able to find it...

Tharrn
Amarr
Epitoth Fleet Yards
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.03.11 21:02:00 - [101]
 

So extractor pins have a limited lifetime - I assume we'll have to look for new spots every three days then, which looks like an awfull lot of micromanagement.

Also, will resources replenish for a planet over time like asteroid belts and will the same resources respawn in different locations or the same location on a planet (aka once I have found a good spot it's likely to get the same resource again or will it be random)?

R0bowing
Posted - 2010.03.11 23:01:00 - [102]
 

Is it possible to have an eta on water and carbon being seeded, as I certainly looks like it works but then we really need more to be certain, especially this nanite paste with it's long chain

Bo Kantrel
Gallente
Posted - 2010.03.11 23:06:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn
planetary interaction looks pretty nice, I am already drooling over all freighters extracting stuff from planets...



I agree. This will be some interesting stuff!
I'd be willing to bet that freighters won't be usable.
Cargo containers in the hold while in space kinda thing.
Orca's to the rescue...

CCP Tuxford

Posted - 2010.03.11 23:28:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: RootEmerger
Originally by: Kaaii
Edited by: Kaaii on 11/03/2010 18:11:23
Difference between links and routes?




With a link you open a path between two stations, then with the route you decide in wich direction materials should go and houw much by time segments - lets say you have on planet a gold and carbon extractors, a processor that build them into nanoelectrical parts but on planet there's no silcon deposits so you have to get that from another planet
so the route should be extractors->processor->command center, but then command center->processor->back to command center to process nanoelectrical parts and silica into nano computer cores.
Looks like you need a link for each single component (and each direction the process require) so a finer contorl about -what- you are moving will be required in future iteraction of this beta.

Not entirely correct unless I'm misunderstanding you. Think of the links as roads and the routes as trains scheduled to move commodities around. Right now this may seem confusing but on a version on my machine you can actually look at the output from the processor unit and tell it where to move it's output and by what route (I showed tremendous amount of discipline not checking it in Razz). As you can see you are limited by how much you can move through a single link so the shortest path might not necessarily always be the best path.

Lets say you have an extractor pumping out water. You link that to a process pin and the process pin to the command center. If you want to produce something out of the water but also move the "raw" water directly to the command center you can just route part of the water from extractor->process pin and part extractor->process pin->command center.

I hope this made things a bit more clear but it should be clear in future iterations of the UI, if not we're clearly doing it wrong Razz

AdmiralJohn
Gallente
Origin of Sanshaa
Posted - 2010.03.11 23:47:00 - [105]
 

I was skeptical at first, but from what I've seen I'm genuinely excited about it. A few points:

*The interaction mode works fine at a distance, but to get into range to do anything (i.e. very zoomed in) my FPS drops down to unusable levels, around 3-4 FPS. I know I don't have the best computer, but it's far from slow. I understand part of it is on my end, but if there was a way to make it run faster at high zoom levels it would be fantastic.

*The auto-zoom in annoying, especially in conjunction with the above point. Having to zoom out every time I click gets tiresome.

*The pins, especially at a distance, don't correspond to where they're placed (i.e. I need to click well north of their graphical location)

I imagine most of my points are already being addressed, and I understand this is a very preliminary version. I'm having a lot of fun toying with it, and I look forward to seeing this develop!

quickshot89
Caldari
89th Logistics
Posted - 2010.03.12 00:16:00 - [106]
 

so far ive found this to work very well, but there needs to be a way to get the commodities into the freighter direct, either an upgrade to the planet pins, or something, just something

with planets being able to have unlimited harvestor, my c&c centre fills up quickly ugh

Ada Dorv
Posted - 2010.03.12 02:47:00 - [107]
 

Edited by: Ada Dorv on 12/03/2010 03:02:07
Edited by: Ada Dorv on 12/03/2010 02:50:32
I currently have a vapor collector extracting silver.

Oh, and on a fire world I now have a water distillation plant extracting gold. Neat!

I really hope that the satellite will come into play and tell you what deposits are where and you won't have to scan-decommission-build-scan again in the final version. I'd to be able to plan and execute. It feels a little too RNG right now.

You could have an excavator profession. Planetary mineral deposit maps could become like blueprints, produced by a pilot with a scanning array then researched at a space station or POS. After research it produces a mineral map. When it comes to laying down your structures you take the maps with you and it shows you where to place your structures. When your initial deposits run out you can research the maps some more.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.03.12 05:26:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: CCP Tuxford
I hope this made things a bit more clear but it should be clear in future iterations of the UI, if not we're clearly doing it wrong Razz

Was very clear to me, though likely won't be for more casual players.

However there's something rather important missing from the basic design. That is deployable warehouses similar to the command center.

At this moment, in order to always fully utilize all extractors you have no option but to send all raw materials to the command center and from there out to the processors. To exploit all nodes in the chain perfectly requires a level of micro-management and matching of deposit rate of excavation and production that is not likely to ever happen.

What is needed are warehouses that act as buffers and greatly reduces the complexity of a setup by allowing you add a level of indirection. E.g. your nitrogen excavators in an area are set up to fill up the warehouse they connect to, and that warehouse is set up to provide all the processing facilities with nitrogen.

At this moment that would have to be done using the command center, which is a pain to deal with.

Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
Posted - 2010.03.12 07:21:00 - [109]
 

I'm pretty sure the devblog mentioned storage PINs. I have no doubt they'll be there by release, if not in a couple weeks when this sprint is done. (coding woldn't be much more than what is already in the PCC, plus some upgrade capabilities, minus the launchpad).

I too have found the best setup os a star topology, where instead of extractors feeding processors directly, they instead feed to storage, and processors pull from storage. (storage in the current state, being JUST the PCC). Sadly, I wish it was easier to set up custom routes to each processor directly from the extractors, however, it seems that just isn't all that practical, mostly because of the varied cycle times, never mind the constant need to adjust everytime a ore dries up. I have a feeling in the end the perfect setup will be very heavily buffered.

Talking about storage PINs, since it looks like there are different extraction PINs for different material types, does this imply that storage PINs will also be type specific? (Gas/Vapor storage, Chemical/Water storage, Ore storage?)

Oh.. and one more note... Please make the Icon's more visible when zoomed out. They shouldn't scale down the at the same rate as the planet when zooming out, it makes them impossible to see. And fix the clicking issues.. ;-) It really is great though!

Zex Maxwell
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.12 07:25:00 - [110]
 

I know this is not complete, but this question is bugging me and i have to ask it now:

How will players send down materials. Is that an option that still in the works?

Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
Posted - 2010.03.12 07:39:00 - [111]
 

I have no doubt there will be methods of sending down materials.. they've also mentioned trade pins, that can be used to some sort of shuffling materials between planets. I think this initial incarnation was really jsut about getting the whole PIN mechanic setup and working, which it sort of seems to do. The next sprint will be done in a few weeks, and I'm guessing there will be a lot of filling in the blanks at that time. At least to a more functional level, if not pretty yet.

RoboHauler
Posted - 2010.03.12 08:02:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Zex Maxwell
I know this is not complete, but this question is bugging me and i have to ask it now:

How will players send down materials. Is that an option that still in the works?


I would say the most likey method will be a drop pod of some sorts, unless they do allow elevators in which that would be cheaper, another guess would be that drop pods are 1 shot

Reeno Coleman
Posted - 2010.03.12 08:22:00 - [113]
 

If you build structures on a magma planet, the links are black on black and nearly invisible

TheCursedWriter
Posted - 2010.03.12 08:47:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Reeno Coleman
If you build structures on a magma planet, the links are black on black and nearly invisible


links do need to be made more visible!

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.03.12 09:39:00 - [115]
 

I know it is the begining stages, but the interaction is very crap right now. Embarassed

Callista Sincera
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.03.12 09:50:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: TheCursedWriter
links do need to be made more visible!


Yes. They also need to be unclickable in proximity to a facility. It's impossible to click anything as soon as it has a couple of links.


Btw, all the deposits I find have 0 resources. Anyone else got that problem?

Tairon Usaro
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.03.12 09:56:00 - [117]
 

Impressive work so far, one can envision the potential of the design.

Right now there is one single manufacturing end product. Am i right, that in the final version released, there will be more then just nanite paste ?

Can you give us an impression what CCP considers to tie to skills? Myself would think of
* Number of Command centers i.e. planets you can work with
* total yield and yield of time for resources
* production efficiency
* maintenance costs
* launch costs
* scanning process


Kaaii
Caldari
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
KAAII-NET
Posted - 2010.03.12 10:01:00 - [118]
 



New additions to scanner overview settings:

Command Centers
Extractors
Planetary Cargo Links
Processors
Spaceports
Storage Facilities

Wink




Fernous
Gallente
Autistic Sharks
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.03.12 10:14:00 - [119]
 

Does the Scanning go Like

Helium Isotopes - Water, Carbon are in these pockets
Nocxium - Here be Metals
Argon Gas - Here be Gases

Just something ive observed, Took me a bit when I was first doing it Wink

Also...We need a "Snap to Planetary Command Center" command, I hate trying to find mine when I lose it and havent set any links/routes to it yet Neutral

Kaaii
Caldari
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
KAAII-NET
Posted - 2010.03.12 11:03:00 - [120]
 



When launching multiple products, the can is empty.
It only holds 27500, however the materials launched (to date) have been less than that amount in vol.

There is no way to launch "partial amounts". It is all or nothing, of a stack.


The can continues to float there although empty. You cannot drag and drop new material into it.
There is no way to delete a empty can from journal.

There is no countdown for the next available launch, seems to be 2 mins
The mission journal will not update the number of launch cans you have out, unless you open and close.





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