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T'Amber
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.03.04 17:14:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: SirDynty

yes,because we cant wait to read spam and some random pages advertisment,such as yours.
Fan site is one thing,this crap is another. Including your great corporation name and great screenshot and great signature you provided
for me this is the same like cheap isk spam


Theres no link to the post that image was from, and the image has no examples of corporations or alliance events but that is a major part of the original thread i just didn't get time to put it in any images, theres also toggles on the menu example to so you could filter out the things you're not interested in. Although you may not be interested in any of my cost or free events there are thousands that are, and I don't see why 3rd party events shouldn't be included with the alliance and corporation planning on the calendas.

I'm glad you like my corp name tho, its not very original but I didn't have that much time to think up a proper name, the screenshot and signatures however took some time to get looking right.


-T'amber

Ramman K'arojic
Posted - 2010.03.05 01:01:00 - [242]
 

Quote:
"To make alliance standings override corp standings, and corp standings override personal standings. (It would go alliance-alliance, alliance-corp, alliance-personal, corp-alliance and so on.) "


I have issue with this.. As an older char I have personal grudges / mis trusts that extend beyond the corp. I think personal stands should come first followed by Alliance and then Corporation. I can personally approve / disappove of someone one and may actually have an understanding with them; yet my alliance does share the same view.

Ramman


Gizan
Hounds Of War
R-I-P
Posted - 2010.03.05 21:28:00 - [243]
 

Now i have read through several pages and dont want to read through 5-7 more pages to see if this has already been posted, but i would like to see Alliance <->character standings implimented. I like haveing a neutral alt as a scout but having to set character -> each corp in an allaince is just a pain in the butt.. i want to be able to set character -> alliance standings!!

Tohm Raerdor
Endless Destruction
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2010.03.06 22:01:00 - [244]
 

Edited by: Tohm Raerdor on 06/03/2010 22:01:54
You mention that standing to NPC factions will likely be dropped. I would ask to reconsider this, as I've found that I can open up my fleet to the newbie NPC corps on Fleet Finder by setting those corps to positive standing. This is a useful recruitment and networking tool, and has helped new players connect with experienced players to answer questions.

If you remove player standings to NPC corps, please find a way to maintain this capability if it isn't difficult.

Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.03.07 15:29:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Just leaving a note to say that I'm still reading this and making notes. I've got a list of things to discuss with other team members, and I'll try and get back to you soonish.


Hoping for a reply soon(tm) :p

L'Petit Object
Posted - 2010.03.08 05:15:00 - [246]
 

I think the player base would be well served by a high vs. low detail functionality. If Eve Gate programmers are too busy/lazy/disinterested/ or otherwise constrained, then they should not destroy the high detail funcitonality in-game for the sake of a website where you cannot actually play the game. IF that means any management that occurs over the internet can only be done in low detail of functionality, then so-be-it.

Corporations need the tools to organize themselves and rank whomever or whatever by any means neccessary for anything possible. Alliances and corporations should have a basics tab, and then there should be a much more detailed tab for people who want to tinker with advanced settings, perhaps even a basic programming language.

THe Huge Appeal of Eve is that as an adult player its level of detail and endless depth keep me forever wanting to learn, expand, experiment and evolve. Mandating sophisticated systems be destroyed for the ease of use of a social-networking website is contrary to the spirit of Eve.

And I know, this is a crazy complicated game, and its hard for new players, and over time it has only gotten more complicated. THe answer to this is to find ways of creating simple functionality for people who are not fully adapted, BUT not destroying the sophistication of those who have developed it.

Finally. Allowing players to import their own UI modifications, like WoW does is extremely important, because the funcitonality of the current UI is not half as good as some of the open-source stuff that could be docked on the thing. You cannot possibly keep up with the endless variety of informational combinations that players desire. If that is not feasible, you should have a client side widget submission, bug-check, and upload/download area in the game, where the programmer agrees to give CCP enough rights that they can't be sued and the player can't claim to have been mistreated in court. Think of it as the app store on an iphone, only for eve. (Especially concerning the goddamn galaxy map)

My best

L'Petit Object

PS: fix bookmarks

Glasaugen Gert
Posted - 2010.03.08 21:24:00 - [247]
 

Edited by: Glasaugen Gert on 08/03/2010 21:26:12
The standing with only five settings is fine. I would like to see a dropdown menu with 5 or more entry fields which can be named freely from the alliances or corporations for their needs. Like the corporation hangars or wallet divisions. It has no effect on the standing itself, it is only informal. This standing list can be published or not for external access. That would make it easier to check standings if set to public (or to blue standings?).

For example: +10
  1. will join alliance soon
  2. ongoing negotiations
  3. temporary blue
  4. P-Z constellation rent
  5. etc.

+5
  1. temporary setting
  2. diplomatic negotiations, do not attack
  3. restricted to travel through only(no mining, hunting, etc.)
  4. war ally
  5. etc.

0
  1. standing request denied
  2. temporary standing expired
  3. etc.

-5
  1. hostile actions reported
  2. approved enemy of allied corp/ally
  3. known gate campers to 0.0 border
  4. etc.

-10
  1. KOS
  2. approved enemy
  3. etc.


Would make it way more transparent and comfortable to manage the different standings. A fast overview why standings are set or not.

On the other hand, how are standings like +8.0 (jump clone access) are handled in the future? With +7.5 they were blue but still did not have access to this service.

How many standings can be set with the new system, more then 300?

kit amor
Posted - 2010.03.10 05:57:00 - [248]
 

Will confess to not having waded through all 9 pages of this thread so apologies in advance if someone else has already suggested this...

Is there a way you can make industry jobs - with all relevant details: location, bpo, manufacturing/copying/invention etc, quantities being made, ME levels being researched etc - show up on the calendar? It would be awesome to have a page on the web I can check for when jobs are coming off rather than having to log in all the time. However, and this is important, I would NOT want this information to be visible to ANYONE else! Corp members with roles can see corp jobs but that's IT.

I realise that obviously I still need to log in to deliver the damn thing but still - it would be very useful and placate my OCD proclivities...



Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
Posted - 2010.03.12 06:24:00 - [249]
 

I'm late to the party, IDK if this has been discussed but we need to retain the ability to set standings to NPC corporations. Setting them as light blue or red is a handy way to quickly tell whether someone in .0 is an alt scout.

SeerinDarkness
Minmatar
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.03.12 07:32:00 - [250]
 

Edited by: SeerinDarkness on 12/03/2010 07:32:40
I want to Know whats being done to prevent this from being abused as a delibrate gameplay lag generator in the same vein that the alliance rankings tab is most certinally used, and local spam, and assets tabs opening, and market calls,and making fleet changes in the twisted up fleet finder ..when some major attack is starting by somone jumping to someone else or loading grid while warpingEvil or Very Mad and what is going to be done to remove the ability to prodouce lag when desired from the abuseable things already ingame.
Seerindarkness

Carina Riders
Posted - 2010.03.12 09:14:00 - [251]
 

Edited by: Carina Riders on 13/03/2010 05:58:50
Good blog. It scare me to death. But I think this discussion and many brilliant ideas is the true point.

Why can we hide our membership in corporation on ingame show info page? I don't want to bear my corp logo. Any reason for every individual must be in any corp?
I think it is (see below). It is another world with rules we are must used to.
Whining about corp roster is useless. I can compile this list by hand myself. I even wonder why corp roster didn't shown in corp info window yet?

Chat, voice chat, mail, mailing lists, calendar. It this all well be available through EVE Gate? It will be great.

Standing system. I will try build small model to better show my feelings.

Some actors:

  • Pod pilot, Agent - individual (indy).

  • Corporation - basic social unit (unit) (yes it is corp, not the individual)

  • Alliance, Faction - group of social units (group) (Why alliance still didn't exist is a mystery)


Corporation rules the world of eve, not individuals. Corp leader can't do anything he wants. Corporations live their lives and force corp leaders or other representatives to play their small roles in this drama.

Also we have some relationships:
1.

  • indy -> indy : it can't be political relationship. I like this guy more 'cause he did something I agreed with. I dislike this guy 'cause he did something I didn't agree with.

  • indy -> unit : same as above just for corp.

  • indy -> group : again just personal attendance to something.


If you are role player then you must argue about character and player standing will be different by some reason. So why do you play you role as a character and want combine it with another role as player? Don’t mix this two different worlds.

2.

  • unit -> indy : this must reflect only political reasons. Corp leader must not use it to show all corpmates his personal attendance to someone or something. Just like NPC corp give you more services or better prices, or hunt you if you crush their properties too often.

  • unit -> unit : same as above.

  • unit -> group : again just political.


If corp have -10 to some indy or unit or group it is political only. To give better prices or services, or to shoot these bastards ‘cause they break stuff. You may obey corp will and shoot, or find a good friend as a target and help him instead (CEO also may punish that kind of corpmates).

3.

  • group -> indy : this one is just higher level of politics. More things about services and prices and so on.

  • group -> unit : same.

  • group -> group : same.



0.
If we will have better UI to change standing (

  1. slider bar with sticky notches

  2. edit box for hand input

  3. preset buttons for 5 or more predefined values
  4. (on SISI build 136946 these buttons in "edit contact" window work just like this. sets standing to -10 -5 0 +5 +10. Also you can change standing as before through the slider. I like it :) )
  5. set values to many entities at once


better UI to show standing

  1. ability to assign personal tag to certain values (4.9 - I don't shoot but also don't trust to fly with)

  2. ability to change precedence between group, corp, indy or show all at once

  3. ability to sort by value or filter entities with certain standing value


will players use standing system more?

Certainly YES!!!

It will work as intended from beginning. It is no mater NPC or player controlled entities behind the scene. I see EVE Gate as mirror to EVE Universe with border I more used to. But it is mirror to other side. Any relationship out of game must be stated with out of game means.

Edit: some spell checks and SISI expirience

Evan Batarr
Posted - 2010.03.17 00:35:00 - [252]
 

Edited by: Evan Batarr on 17/03/2010 00:36:57
Edited by: Evan Batarr on 17/03/2010 00:35:49
Don't dumb down the standings system. Give people at least the choice if they want to use the 'new' or 'old' (slider) system.

And what's with all this social networking bull****? Evil or Very Mad
I don't use facebook or crap like that and I definitely don't want to play a game that forces me to show certain details of my characters on the web. Don't go the idiotic WOW way (where you can find out who played when and for how long meanwhile)!

I'm using the internet for more than 15 years now and I was always watching over my data (you won't find any of it on the web). And I won't change this policy (even if it's only the data of a virtual character) just because you want to jump the social networking bandwagon.
I want at least an opt-out (or even better - OPT-IN!!) for all my character's details except it's name and icon.

If you're concerned about spiders crawling EVE-Gate and collecting data there's a simple solution. Don't force people to show their character's data on the web.

Bigfood
Gallente
Federal Investigations Agency
Posted - 2010.03.17 03:48:00 - [253]
 

Originally by: Evan Batarr
Edited by: Evan Batarr on 17/03/2010 00:36:57
Edited by: Evan Batarr on 17/03/2010 00:35:49
Don't dumb down the standings system. Give people at least the choice if they want to use the 'new' or 'old' (slider) system.

And what's with all this social networking bull****? Evil or Very Mad
I don't use facebook or crap like that and I definitely don't want to play a game that forces me to show certain details of my characters on the web. Don't go the idiotic WOW way (where you can find out who played when and for how long meanwhile)!

I'm using the internet for more than 15 years now and I was always watching over my data (you won't find any of it on the web). And I won't change this policy (even if it's only the data of a virtual character) just because you want to jump the social networking bandwagon.
I want at least an opt-out (or even better - OPT-IN!!) for all my character's details except it's name and icon.

If you're concerned about spiders crawling EVE-Gate and collecting data there's a simple solution. Don't force people to show their character's data on the web.


Actually I have the same point of view

Myself as a CEO don't want to have a full list of my members available for everyone

think about it ccp would you put a list of all your employees on your website?

There is information that should only be accessabel by the corporation or at least the members/directors/CEO should be able to conrtol what others can see.

same with the Social network stuff ... give people the possibility to hide their data.

Dacryphile
Posted - 2010.03.21 19:37:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Just leaving a note to say that I'm still reading this and making notes. I've got a list of things to discuss with other team members, and I'll try and get back to you soonish.
So what is the feedback.

There are a lot of people who are going to be upset if you make corp member lists public. Any comments on that?

Coren PheonixII
Posted - 2010.03.30 05:14:00 - [255]
 

Pro's and con's all over this topic so I'll just stick to one point, should corp member lists be globally viewable. In my opinion I don't think they should be if for the sole fact its a lot of fun to fly into a war thinking you have all the names of all the players online, then you get decimated by people you didn't even know existed! Player lists could also have a detrimental effect on corps with a majority (or large portion) of new players as they might get picked on by older, stronger, more tyrannical pilots. On the plus side it means that no corp will be able to hide from a wardec, either fight or dock, no more hiding in some god forsaken backwater system in verge vendor!

ULTImatio
Posted - 2010.03.30 10:21:00 - [256]
 

Edited by: ULTImatio on 30/03/2010 12:02:43

People & Places / Contacts List

I just tested some things on the Test Client and I did not like what I have seen. I see a really big mountain of frustrations coming on for me handling my contact list.

The point is, you simply canít organise the contact list based on standings. I myself have a contact list of 436 pilots, and I sorted them all in folders. The only standing I ever changed in game was to set my own Alts to standing 10.

I use Folders for:

* Friends (can have any standing from 10 to -10)
* Non-Friends (can have any standing from 0 to -10)
* Alts (can have any standing from 10 to -10)
* Friently Corps (can have any standing from 0 to 10)
* War Target Corps (can have any standing from 0 to -10)
* Non-Friendly Corps (can have any standing from 0 to -10)
* Posible Recruits (can have any standing from 0 to 10)

Now if you take all these pilots and throw them all on a big pile of standings then you mess-up my contact list BIG-Time.

CCP please;
1. Give us our good old folder creation option back.
2. Make it so that we can set entire folders to the Watch List.

Or we all get really frustrated when you introduce this new contact list setup.

ULTImatio
Posted - 2010.04.06 09:54:00 - [257]
 

Whatís happening CCP, on the we all getting our folders back side of things.

We all know the, Tyrannis is Coming May 18TH, Countdown is counting and we need our folders.

Ceslestria
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.07 05:53:00 - [258]
 

Edited by: Ceslestria on 07/04/2010 05:56:50
Originally by: Captian Conrad
Originally by: Hans Soloist
In response to "The question then is whether the corp member list should be globally viewable, or just viewable to corporate members." This is a no brainer, I think this should be corp only, this would provide way to much intel to enemies without having them work for it.


I think it would be best to allow the corp to decide mabye? and who it shows, may be handy for peeps like Eve uni to list their teachers ect and for corps to list diplomats and keep it out of the decriptions Cool


I agree, being able to choose who is visible is the best policy...personally i definitely DO NOT want that information public, because it makes it that much easier for ******s to wardec small corps for no reason and hunt their members with locator agents. There is enough of that going on already.

And please dear god, as another user commented, do NOT mess with our people and places folders!!!!!!

Aeckz
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.07 06:00:00 - [259]
 

I don't think the corp member list should be public, it's just going to make corps with access to locator agents hunt down the weaker/newer members; which would be pretty bad for a lot of newbie and industrial corps.

It also allows someone to buddy list everyone and see who is online/offline and when a good time to attack would be.

Leocadminone
Posted - 2010.04.07 14:49:00 - [260]
 

While you are making these changes, how about changing the color choices too?

The current system has Red and Orange, WHICH ARE SO CLOSE IN COLOR IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL THEM APART AT A GLANCE (and is bloody difficult to tell them apart when you STARE at them). It would make more sense to make the Orange choice Yellow.

SAME ISSUE on "blue" vs. "Light Blue" or whatever you call the light blue setting, but I'm not sure what you would change the "light blue" color to, mabey Cyan or a lighter shade of Light Blue like Sky Blue that would be a lot easier to tell from the current "blue" at a glance. This is less important of a factor though, "friendly" vs. "very friendly" isn't usually a call you need to make instantly.

I can see simplifying the standings, but you're going a bit TOO far IMO - make it integer from -10 to 10 IMO, which still leaves SOME granularity while reducing the current overkill amount of granularity.

Calender - *yawn* useless for my little corp, but I can see where some corps might like it.

While you're messing with the address book, how about getting RID of the current "double entry" issue, when you move some entry to a different folder it deletes the OLD entry. The current "10 gazillion entries in the all folder" system is a ROYAL PAIN IN THE ASS TO TRY TO DEAL WITH WHEN YOU HAVE MORE THAN A DOZEN OR SO ENTRIES IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK.

Corp member list should be CEO-set or Director-Set on visibility, default to "not visible", UNLESS A CORP DOES A WAR DEC ON YOUR CORP then the list should become visible to the target corp.



Drek Rifen
Posted - 2010.04.30 14:40:00 - [261]
 

One of the ideas advertised with EVE is that you can play anyway you want.

While the concept exist the practicality of it does not.

Our corp members would like the freedom to be able to travel EVE as they wish in empire space. Most members also want to do research and manufacturing. This creates a constant tension and balancing act with NPC corps in order to be able to travel anywhere in EVE. For example in getting standings with a Gallente research agent the Caldari and Amarr standings drop and often close to -4.00 which prevents travel in Caldari/Amarr space (in a ship anyway).

While some players will say stop running Faction missions,... this is not practical since the current method allows a mission decline only once every 4-6 hours with an agent.

So, if anything is to be achieved in a timely manner (how long it takes to play EVE (by the hours) is still a major issue), then it means playing this impossible balancing act between corps in order to maintain star-gate neutrality.

The dev blog eludes to the fact that we may no longer be playing this balancing act if Corp standings rather than individual standings are the consideration for star-gates.

This will be a positive move for EVE game-play and will be in keeping with the concept "you determine how you want to play." I believe the majority of players would like to be able to travel all of EVE and not be penalized for doing missions with a particular corp.

Hope this is what you have in mind. Smile

Jorsalir
Posted - 2010.04.30 15:31:00 - [262]
 

I agree with Drek, in that the missions that I choose to run because I'm trying to build standings with a certain corp should not negatively my corps mates ability to use agents that they have already built up standings with.

I recently ran several Caldari missions, all of which were against NPC enemies (Guristas, Serpentis, etc...) and not a singly mission against another faction (Galente, MinMatar, Amarr). The end result was my Caldari standings increased but my Galente standings decreased to the point where it also drug down the corp standings. Yes we are a small corp, and whereas large multi-ethnic corps may not experience this, those of us in a small corp did. Other members who had used Galente R&D agents for quite some time were no longer able to do so through no fault of their own, or intention on my part.

I then had to spend dozens of RL hours to run low-level Galente missions to remedy this. This should be resolved as it hinders gameplay, and therefore CCP's profits in the long-run.

Fin Derrek
Posted - 2010.04.30 18:32:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: L'Petit Object

"THe Huge Appeal of Eve is that as an adult player its level of detail and endless depth keep me forever wanting to learn, expand, experiment and evolve. Mandating sophisticated systems be destroyed for the ease of use of a social-networking website is contrary to the spirit of Eve."



While I'm not interested in starting any kind of argument I just want to comment on the above quote. Directed mostly to CCP and not the original post-er.

Making a game interesting, sophisticated and attractive to the 25 and over crowd is not the same as making it overly complicated. Complex does not equal interesting, sophisticated or challenging. Game marketers are finding this out,... people want interesting and sophisticated they don't want overly complex, after all this is a pass-time not a second career or life. Look at the Nintendo Wii for example they got it right,... games are interesting, some sophisticated but none are overly complex and they get you up from a seated position (hehehe). Nintendo intentionally chose that avenue after looking at the direction the game market was heading in, that is, more complex with emphasis on graphics.

I used the Wii only as an example of how something can be fun, hold peoples attention and all without demanding hours of time at the game console. I am not implying that EVE become Nintendo like. I am saying that with some creativity and ingenuity EVE can be interesting, sophisticated and challenging without being overly complex. I think CCP and the programmers are on the right course with streamlining the STANDINGS section.


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