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Lenny Krawitz
Posted - 2010.04.16 19:31:00 - [361]
 

Edited by: Lenny Krawitz on 16/04/2010 19:42:46
SYMETRIC CALDARI SHIP!!! NOOOOOOOO!

Btw, what about the Rattlesnake?

Eos Alexander
Posted - 2010.04.16 20:41:00 - [362]
 

first off all: the new design is ugly and looks gay!

Can you imagine there are ppls here (as me) that love the rough design as they are. If you need a new ship design, make new ones but let the fingers from the old
design. Was the same with the Rattlesnake, from one day to the other it changed from a faction BS to a girly ship for going shopping (with a HUGE drone bay for the bags!). Only 4 launcher left, what you want to do with that? Dancing Tango on the dancefloor? ------ ****------. Such intervention i don't need. Sorry, but i can't understand this kind of behavior.

Maybe it's time to think about a change from EVE.

Eos Alexander

Please do not evade the profanity filter. Zymurgist

Sahnay
Posted - 2010.04.17 10:59:00 - [363]
 

Originally by: Orb Lati
I personally hope that the art department takes a realist approach to windows on
the ships.

I really hate the textures you see on some ships where you have rows of lights denoting
portholes/windows on the hulls.
The fenrir would be a good example. It looks like you could house a city population in there with all the windows drawn on it.


That's one of the most irritating quirks in eve - sometimes those "windows" seems to picture
electronic circuits, next they seem to be actual windows.
This messes up the scale impression and also the credibility of the ship-designs.
Imo the "real scale" of ships should be reduced - that way the amount of surface details would
maybe start to match.
Also many ships don't compare well to their class-brethren:
While a Megathron looks like a bus-sized hotrod, an Apocalypse looks like it should have been a
floating mega-city (flying it feels like it were a skewer though).

Sari Ajantes
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.17 11:20:00 - [364]
 

Edited by: Sari Ajantes on 17/04/2010 11:20:39
~tarded caldari people...

Makeover is allways nice, please do more of those
We are getting boared of some ships!

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2010.04.18 17:32:00 - [365]
 

I loooove it! Thanks CCP. Finally a sweet makeover of a ship that was ugly all its life :D

Now its just pure ****o!

Kavin Alavandar
Extropy Dianoetics
Posted - 2010.04.20 07:29:00 - [366]
 

Edited by: Kavin Alavandar on 20/04/2010 11:12:01
I'll be honest: I don't much like the new design. I couldn't care less whether it's symmetrical or asymmetrical, and the sharper textures are obviously an improvement, but stylistically I just don't like it as much as its predecessor.

I love the sharp, icy appearance the Caldari received with Trinity and I'd hate to see it go, either in shape or color. I mean, even lore-wise, remember:

Amarr: Tungsten Carbide
Minmatar: Fernite Carbide (assuming 'fernite' is a mistype of 'ferrite')
Gallente: Crystalline Carbide
Caldari: Titanium Carbide

The current armor seems much more like titanium carbide (and the in-game icon for titanium carbide) than the dull, rubbery appearance of this new Scorpion.

If this Scorpion is representative of the changes due for the rest of the Caldari vessels, it seems that they'll be getting rid of everything that has been making me fall in love with the Caldari, aesthetically, since Trinity.

Ah, well. I guess it will solve my problem of being a Federation loyalist drooling over Caldari ships.

Originally by: Orb Lati
I personally hope that the art department takes a realist approach to windows on the ships.

I really hate the textures you see on some ships where you have rows of lights denoting portholes/windows on the hulls.
The fenrir would be a good example. It looks like you could house a city population in there with all the windows drawn on it.

That's because they are that big. Consider that a Rifter is about the length of a Boeing 747 and you get the idea.

The Fenrir is 15.5 million cubic meters in volume, or about 22,000 average-sized houses.

Arnold Hallanger
Posted - 2010.04.20 15:25:00 - [367]
 

Originally by: Kavin Alavandar
Originally by: Orb Lati
I personally hope that the art department takes a realist approach to windows on the ships.

I really hate the textures you see on some ships where you have rows of lights denoting portholes/windows on the hulls.
The fenrir would be a good example. It looks like you could house a city population in there with all the windows drawn on it.

That's because they are that big. Consider that a Rifter is about the length of a Boeing 747 and you get the idea.

The Fenrir is 15.5 million cubic meters in volume, or about 22,000 average-sized houses.


QFI.

Phsyonic
Amarr
The Imperial Assassins
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2010.04.21 23:15:00 - [368]
 

Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Well the new design does look more like a BS than the current one, but I hope you aren't going to make all future designs resemble their names so closely. The new design looks more like a transformer imitating a scorpion than a spaceship in those pictures. Maybe it looks more like a spaceship when viewed live.


Perhaps it was their intent to make a ship called, "The Scorpion" to look closer to this originally, but lacked the technology to mainstream the idea. People are going to have to keep an open mind as EVE progresses into the future, when it comes to Aesthetics. CCP has a vision, and just now Technology is getting to the point where they can realize just SOME of that vision.

Granted, we don't want ships looking like insects all over the cosmos, but I doubt sincerely we'll see that. Logically, how many ships in-game currently could you really "far-fetch" to relate like this?

Keep it up CCP, I can't wait to see where we are 20 years from now. Oh yes, I believe EVE will still be here, and it'll be far greater a subscription base, and a model for all MMO's out there. EVE is still waiting on technology to advance a bit more so it can be fully realized, and I dare say, "Fully". Cool

Lusulpher
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.23 08:27:00 - [369]
 

Edited by: Lusulpher on 23/04/2010 08:28:16
Originally by: Phsyonic
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Well the new design does look more like a BS than the current one, but I hope you aren't going to make all future designs resemble their names so closely. The new design looks more like a transformer imitating a scorpion than a spaceship in those pictures. Maybe it looks more like a spaceship when viewed live.


Perhaps it was their intent to make a ship called, "The Scorpion" to look closer to this originally, but lacked the technology to mainstream the idea. People are going to have to keep an open mind as EVE progresses into the future, when it comes to Aesthetics. CCP has a vision, and just now Technology is getting to the point where they can realize just SOME of that vision.

Granted, we don't want ships looking like insects all over the cosmos, but I doubt sincerely we'll see that. Logically, how many ships in-game currently could you really "far-fetch" to relate like this?

Keep it up CCP, I can't wait to see where we are 20 years from now. Oh yes, I believe EVE will still be here, and it'll be far greater a subscription base, and a model for all MMO's out there. EVE is still waiting on technology to advance a bit more so it can be fully realized, and I dare say, "Fully". Cool



CCP's vision is one of Realism, or else they would have let us colour the hulls...and they state the ART Department sticks to their model vision from way back when they started. Note some of the organic/alien concept sketches on this site.

They purposely chose models that were not aerodynamic because that's the HelloKittypewpew vision. Future Spaceships are cold, metal coffins that bubble through dimensions/Space, with gun platforms attached, and sometimes they have a solar panel/wing, they might even be Symmetrical...Function trumps Form, ESPECIALLY for the Caldari.

That is the vision. This new Scorp is a political move and it spells mediocrity coming to an instanced EvE, near me.[Star Trek/Jumpgate Online Dev? Who did this?! We shall stone him!!Evil or Very Mad]

20 years of this = the last 20 years of Gundam.
Went from Universal Century Realism to pandering to goth girls and preteen wrestling fans[Shoujo?]. No one cried out then, but now all who appreciated Gundam as Mechanical art with Social Commentary, now call it gay. The same fate awaits a compromised EvE Vision.Neutral

Shira'v'Dhraal
Posted - 2010.04.23 10:08:00 - [370]
 

Well, if you have to call for realism, which EvE is not by far. You have to admit that any military organization which could shape a vessel to look like something that mean danger in the human subconscious at the same price of an assembled piece of modules that look like nothing else it would never go for the later. That's what the Scorpion is.

Lusulpher
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.01 06:18:00 - [371]
 

Originally by: Shira'v'Dhraal
Well, if you have to call for realism, which EvE is not by far. You have to admit that any military organization which could shape a vessel to look like something that mean danger in the human subconscious at the same price of an assembled piece of modules that look like nothing else it would never go for the later. That's what the Scorpion is.



That military, made a random hull for cramming with sensors within and arrays on the hull for jamming without.

Spaceships are not aerodynamic. Little need for symmetry/wings/ailerons...those are psychological decisions meant for US. And EvE ships can hover...and use Planck bubble tech.Confused

A big pile of modules that kill you is just as intimidating as a shiny pile that kills you. GankTyphoon anyone? Original Scorp used to terrorize nullsec fights in it's heyday. This model talks the blastership talk but cannot walk the blastership walk.[Neither can the HypeLaughing]

So just fix the old model up, add more textures to the big empty surface, detailed antennae/arrays, and reposition some engines. Maybe start with actually ugly/useless hulls first. What next? Horizontal Naglfar??

I would like to see that new model shoot missiles from it's launchers...

Shira'v'Dhraal
Posted - 2010.05.05 14:14:00 - [372]
 

Ok so I guess you play your game with all sounds turned off, because you know, for realistic sakes...

But I got some news for you: it's a f..g science fiction game not a "The Humanity in space like it should be" game.

Your "logic" behind this call for realism is to support your taste for some graphics which is understandable but the only flawless logic in a CCP's science fiction game is what CCP designers put in their game, be it a new shiny new scorpion or a giant flower of doom that fart krestels (I'd like to see the later as part of the TIII BS release).

Cossyl
Perkone
Posted - 2010.05.07 14:59:00 - [373]
 

Il love it !!! Terrible Very Happy

Lusulpher
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.12 05:18:00 - [374]
 

Edited by: Lusulpher on 12/05/2010 05:23:27
Edited by: Lusulpher on 12/05/2010 05:22:12
Originally by: Shira'v'Dhraal
Ok so I guess you play your game with all sounds turned off, because you know, for realistic sakes...

But I got some news for you: it's a f..g science fiction game not a "The Humanity in space like it should be" game.

Your "logic" behind this call for realism is to support your taste for some graphics which is understandable but the only flawless logic in a CCP's science fiction game is what CCP designers put in their game, be it a new shiny new scorpion or a giant flower of doom that fart krestels (I'd like to see the later as part of the TIII BS release).



SciFi[PsyFi] is all about human behaviours in a complex setting, like say a sandbox game where even morals can be bent. And murder and betrayal is the [tedious, schizophrenic]endgame.

From the beginning they explained EvE would be Human v Human. That's why even Jovians are just Humans, Sleepers are ancient Human AI, and the Rogue Drones are Human AI. Actual intelligent alien life, would distract from the vision of SciFi.
Ship design twisted away from airplane-in-space is the first foundation for the entirely Futurism/Human element. As the assumption is future Human designers would be entirely practical, and not have the 13yr old mindset.[this crap began when 20th century marketing focused on THAT age group and all SciFi validity was lost across all mediums.Mad Except for Twilight Zone.]

10,000 years from now[IF we make it Lord/Nuclear Holocaust/spacewhales/asteroids willing] you assume we won't have brick shaped spaceships that can teleport through solarsystems and simulated a planetary sound system in real time? You lack imagination, and Einstein's clones will have a few words to say to you.
They would also say the new Scorp looks crap.

Any deviation is purely for marketing purposes. Not for the integrity of the Vision.[aka go play Jumpgate and give your stuff to someone who will use it outside of Highsec] ]:P-

Ignemiati
Posted - 2010.05.19 11:14:00 - [375]
 

I'm glad i came back.

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2010.05.21 19:46:00 - [376]
 

AWESOME SHOGAATSU SUGGESTION:

- Keep the old Scorpion model, lower its stats a bit, keep the name Scorpion. Edit its description to call it the prototype version. Leave it as a cheaper t1 battleship option, price dropping to about 50 mil.
- Intro the new model, call it Scorpion Mk II (a la Badger Mk II,) edit the description to call it the second-gen model, and adapt all other new Scorpion hulls to it.

If you do this as you update various ship models through Eve's lifetime, you'll have cheaper Mk1 and better Mk2 versions of ships. More ships = always good, and you don't waste/throw away art assets. The old versions could be kept as "legacy vessels" to show the steady evolution of technology in New Eden; perhaps even re-skinned with grimy textures or rock-pitted hulls to represent their age.

I mean, when you drive on a highway, you don't share the road with cars made in the same year as yours. You'll see some rustbuckets. I know everyone's having sexual emissions over the new model, but I'm rather attached to the old one, and I'm sure many other vets are. Please don't take away my elbow-shaped baby.

Aleksandr Cirtus
Caldari
Dark Neutron Star
Drama Flakes
Posted - 2010.05.27 02:32:00 - [377]
 

Originally by: Lusulpher
Edited by: Lusulpher on 23/04/2010 08:28:16

CCP's vision is one of Realism, or else they would have let us colour the hulls...and they state the ART Department sticks to their model vision from way back when they started. Note some of the organic/alien concept sketches on this site.

They purposely chose models that were not aerodynamic because that's the HelloKittypewpew vision. Future Spaceships are cold, metal coffins that bubble through dimensions/Space, with gun platforms attached, and sometimes they have a solar panel/wing, they might even be Symmetrical...Function trumps Form, ESPECIALLY for the Caldari.

That is the vision. This new Scorp is a political move and it spells mediocrity coming to an instanced EvE, near me.[Star Trek/Jumpgate Online Dev? Who did this?! We shall stone him!!Evil or Very Mad]

20 years of this = the last 20 years of Gundam.
Went from Universal Century Realism to pandering to goth girls and preteen wrestling fans[Shoujo?]. No one cried out then, but now all who appreciated Gundam as Mechanical art with Social Commentary, now call it gay. The same fate awaits a compromised EvE Vision.Neutral



SOMEONE OUT THERE WITH THE SAME OPINION AS ME?!?! YES!!!!

I must be the only sane person aside from Lusulpher out there! I will never understand why the Scorp was singled out as needing an unnecessary makeover. The Scorpion was the definition of ugly, yes, but that's what it was meant to be! It follows RP background to a 'T', the Caldari ship repertoire screams utilitarianism and flies in the face of Gallentean 'form' (lawl, if you can call it that...). Even if you aren't an RP'er (I'm not) you still have to admire it.

Oh, and don't tell me 'I don't know art', either. If ships like the Scorpion and Blackbird were ever retired by the State, you'd better damn well bet they'd be in a bloody floating L'Oeuvre in the sky!!!! Maybe next to Picasso works, but meh.

Whoever realized the Scorpion originally must either be rolling in their grave, or hanging their head in shame with Jesus, or if they approved of this blasphemy, then they were mind-controlled, mentally broken, and now just a husk of a man with all creative spirit extinguished.

I'm just surprised there's so little dismay about the destruction of something so classic in favour of the constant 'evolution' of EVE...

Lusulpher
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.27 22:58:00 - [378]
 

Originally by: Aleksandr Cirtus
Originally by: Lusulpher
Edited by: Lusulpher on 23/04/2010 08:28:16

CCP's vision is one of Realism, or else they would have let us colour the hulls...and they state the ART Department sticks to their model vision from way back when they started. Note some of the organic/alien concept sketches on this site.

They purposely chose models that were not aerodynamic because that's the HelloKittypewpew vision. Future Spaceships are cold, metal coffins that bubble through dimensions/Space, with gun platforms attached, and sometimes they have a solar panel/wing, they might even be Symmetrical...Function trumps Form, ESPECIALLY for the Caldari.

That is the vision. This new Scorp is a political move and it spells mediocrity coming to an instanced EvE, near me.[Star Trek/Jumpgate Online Dev? Who did this?! We shall stone him!!Evil or Very Mad]

20 years of this = the last 20 years of Gundam.
Went from Universal Century Realism to pandering to goth girls and preteen wrestling fans[Shoujo?]. No one cried out then, but now all who appreciated Gundam as Mechanical art with Social Commentary, now call it gay. The same fate awaits a compromised EvE Vision.Neutral



SOMEONE OUT THERE WITH THE SAME OPINION AS ME?!?! YES!!!!

I must be the only sane person aside from Lusulpher out there! I will never understand why the Scorp was singled out as needing an unnecessary makeover. The Scorpion was the definition of ugly, yes, but that's what it was meant to be! It follows RP background to a 'T', the Caldari ship repertoire screams utilitarianism and flies in the face of Gallentean 'form' (lawl, if you can call it that...). Even if you aren't an RP'er (I'm not) you still have to admire it.

Oh, and don't tell me 'I don't know art', either. If ships like the Scorpion and Blackbird were ever retired by the State, you'd better damn well bet they'd be in a bloody floating L'Oeuvre in the sky!!!! Maybe next to Picasso works, but meh.

Whoever realized the Scorpion originally must either be rolling in their grave, or hanging their head in shame with Jesus, or if they approved of this blasphemy, then they were mind-controlled, mentally broken, and now just a husk of a man with all creative spirit extinguished.

I'm just surprised there's so little dismay about the destruction of something so classic in favour of the constant 'evolution' of EVE...



At this point, this applies to more than EvE's increasing dysfunctions, but what the Hell. "Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears!"

Your post made me understand what that means now.YARRRR!!

Camel S
Posted - 2010.05.28 17:01:00 - [379]
 

Farewell great Scorpion!
To me you'll always be the icon of the Great Northern War

L'Petit Object
Posted - 2010.06.02 17:18:00 - [380]
 

New scorpion is Awesome.

Realism and Asymmetry in space. A note on design.

Symmetry has many benefits that asymmetry does not.
1) Redundancy
2) Simpler flight control dynamics in multiple directions

Symmetry was developed in higher forms of life for this very reason. Our lateral symmetry and somewhat vertical symmetry (arms vaguely mirroring legs) makes us able to withstand damage to one side of our body of great severity, while still retaining similar capabilities on the other side. For this reason in a realistic combat world, the redundancy of having identical systems on both sides would be very helpful.

Personally I'm fine with Asymmetrical ships, but the old scorpions asymmetry did not look realistic, practical, or capable. It looked weak, haphazard, and overly simplistic. Asymmetry, when used correctly, should have it's own appeal. Even if it's not a cool-like-a-thirteen-year-old-likes-it appeal. I, personally, saw none of that in the old scorpion design. that said I think having the old model around would be fine if it had a re-skin.

Function over form vs. form over function
.
1) In order to call the functionality of the Scorpion compromised, we would have to point to where it's new shape directly conflicts with it's desired role. We cannot. It's parts don't interact with each other. It's like a block of clay.

2) The old ship had serious trajectory control problems if it ever lost an engine, because those engines would have to be very carefully balanced to control the torque the one wing produced. The old design was not a good design in any sense.

3) I completely agree with the above commentators that eve would be greatly denigrated if it stopped appealing to older-school science fiction and began appealing to thirteen year olds. But realize for one, Eve appeals to the first bastardization of sci-fi, Startrek style sci-fi, where all realism was thrown out the window a long time ago. Startrek, battle star gallactica, star wars are all overly stylized. That said, this ship, for its genre, is not overly stylized. The scale ingame on the moving model is maintained (with the radar and various other things).

All in all I think the new model is a vast improvement in everyway:

1) though Asmmetry on one scale is realism (different gear on different sides, a modified wing, think osprey or kestrel), the previous Asymmetry looked half finished and difficult to imagine for flight stability. Yes flight stability is a concern in space, because the sum of all vectors must be at the center of the body of mass in order to go in a straight line so as not to cause an ever accelerating spin.

2) Though the new scorpion definitely has a "scorpion" aesthetic, the other one did too, it just looked awful. The new aesthetic looks both good and functional, which is usually a sign of good engineering.

3) The new scorpion model maintains Caldari practicality through it's function. And is now more practical to manufacture because it uses the same parts on both sides, and would be far easier to balance during service flight, as well as offering combat redundancy in case one side or the other of the ship is damaged badly.

So, in total. I think having asymmetrical and non-cool-kid flying ships is great. The new Scorpion definitely leans more towards the form over function compared to the old one, but only if you think the previous ship looked functional ( I did not). The new Scorp is a very pretty (in a deadly way) ship. The new scorpion also looks a lot more like the design philosophy introduced with the Ferox, Rokh, and Tengu. Too much of this would be bland. But I do not think this is too much.



Lone Provider
Posted - 2010.07.07 21:54:00 - [381]
 


Are there any more cool skins in the pipeline? If so, can we get aa taste?


Very Happy

Kougy
Posted - 2010.07.14 22:26:00 - [382]
 

Edited by: Kougy on 14/07/2010 22:27:05
I know this has been stated before by me, but I'd like to reiterate it anyways. I read earlier that someone felt that there are some scaling issues with regards to the textures. I believe a Megathron and an Apocalypse were used in comparison to demonstrate the problem.

However, I believe that the scaling issue is much more apparent when comparing the size of the windows on the Hyperion and texture quality in comparison to the size of the windows and the texture quality that of the Thorax. If the scale size listed in EvE is indeed correct, that would make the size of a single window on the Hyperion roughly 3 to 4 stories high.


Khyber Dominar
Posted - 2010.07.15 14:38:00 - [383]
 

It'd be nice if we could find out what ships (in what order) are looking at a makeover. Even though they're of course implying they will be done soon (tm) over several patches/expansions.

Basically, I don't want to get all excited if the ships I fly aren't in the pipeline for upgrading - or if they're last on the list. Even just the next two or three would be useful info.

Any dev want to get permission and tell us? Very Happy


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