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Namak Bulu
Gallente
Villore Regional Industries
Posted - 2010.02.17 18:09:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Namak Bulu on 17/02/2010 18:11:34
Ok before you think i'm going to ask "How do I set one up." or what not, you can relax, i've done some research on most of this. But I would like to fill you guys in on the situation and point of all this.

There are 5 of us, 3 miners with combat alts, Orca pilot (will be anyway) and a dedicated hauler (training to freighter if needed). Two of us, including myself, are working to manufacturing. Use those minerals instead of just selling them. I've been doing the numbers and if we set this up correctly, we outta be able to turn a tidy profit. Feel free to comment on anything, we do appreciate helpful input.

Anyway, as I said we're headed towards manufacturing and Research Slots are always a month out or better and by my reading here I see that a POS can help with that, significantly. So we were concidering a High Sec POS. We don't feel that we have the strength to defend in low/null space and don't want to build a full blown Corp, it will remain just us. At least right now anyway.

The POS setup I was looking at is below.

Gallente Small Control Tower
2 Mobile Labs
1 Corporate Hanger (Manufacturing Purposes).

The idea above should satisfy our needs for a good bit I think, but the defenses are kinda out of my league in terms of effectiveness, but here is what i've come up with.

4 Warp Scrambling Batteries
4 Sensor Dampening Batteries
4 Small Railgun Batteries
3 Cruise Missile Batteries.

The stats i've got for this entire setup: (Market prices at 9am, 2/17)

Total CPU: 1,580 CPU
Total MW: 930,000 Power
Total Cost: 310,000 for Structures
Total Online: 96,000 per hour plus 120,000 Shield Reinforcements.
Weekly Cost: 16,128,000 ISK

I've also calculated that if we mined 36 blue ice per hour for 2 hours a week, that is about a 73% reduction in weekly operational costs. Now that will fluctuate as the market does, but it outta stay close if I did everything right. So to sum it up, what i'd like input on is:

1)Defenses, are they effective? Should I change anything? What size force would take this down?
2)Does CONCORD respond to attacks with no wardec to our corperation
3)Setup & Operational Costs, are these close?
4)The idea is to turn a tidy profit from manufacturing, are we wasting time and money going this way.
5)Would you change any of the modules?
6) Ammo, got nothing here, need recommendations

FYI, I do know we need starbase charters and i've figured that in. Any help & input here would be very much appreciated. I don't think we're going to have to worry about a massive alliance, I'd anticipate problems with smaller corps or pirates, maybe i'm wrong?

EDIT: Was going get an office in an NPC Station for the BPOs and use Scientific Networking so that if we do lose the station our BPOs arn't gone, if that works this way.

Minktus
Posted - 2010.02.17 18:18:00 - [2]
 

- Don't bother with sensor damps - use ECM.
- Don't bother with cruise - swap them for medium rails.

You don't say if any of you have Starbase Defense Management skills.

Consider a medium tower, as a small is too easy to take out, even in hi sec.

Namak Bulu
Gallente
Villore Regional Industries
Posted - 2010.02.17 18:24:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Namak Bulu on 17/02/2010 18:24:34
None of us have Defense Management Skills yet, but this thing isn't going to happen tommorow either, however via your mentioning it I will look into it. As for the ECM, I assume your talking about the Ion Phase Projection Batteries, Phase Inversion, White Noise, and Spatial Destabilization batteries correct? For medium rails i'd require a medium tower, power supply won't work, not even close. I'll look into that as well.

Ruziel
Minmatar
Twilight Military Industrial Complex
Posted - 2010.02.17 19:16:00 - [4]
 

How are you planning to manufacture stuff with no assembly arrays? All the corp hangar does is store stuff.

Namak Bulu
Gallente
Villore Regional Industries
Posted - 2010.02.17 19:27:00 - [5]
 

Havn't decided if its worth it to fit those with the availibility of Manufacturing slots at NPC Stations, increased security that way, however I assume there is no installation costs and what not on a corp manufacturing array? Remembering this is a High Sec Station. We are limited ATM, a medium control tower effectivly doubles the cost of fuel, as it stands, right now its doable. I havn't yet had time to rework the defense "grid" on a medium control tower, while adding say a large ship array or simple equipment or drone arrays yet for power and CPU usage on all that with the improvement suggestions i'm getting for the defenses. Unsure yet if I can hold an assembly array, maintenence bay, and the upgraded defenses yet. Or what defenses we really need.

Or of manufacturing at the POS is even worth it. Help? lol However I will note that you have brought that to my attention and I should look into it.

Dasola
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.02.17 20:11:00 - [6]
 

Well pos assembly arrays usually have speed bonus of 0.75, makeing them faster then npc station slots.

How ever if your team is just starting maybe you could try to manage with npc station slots. You will know when you start needeing more faster manufacturing, witch time you probably have amassed enough isk to go large tower anyways.

Ruziel
Minmatar
Twilight Military Industrial Complex
Posted - 2010.02.17 20:20:00 - [7]
 

I only asked because your OP could be interpreted that you were expecting to use the POS for manufacturing, particularly with that side note on the Corp Hangar. Just trying to make sure know you need something other than a Corp Hangar to build stuff.

If at least two of you are serious about manufacturing, you will grow out of a small POS in no time, and probably even a medium, particularly if you get into Invention and T2 manufacturing.

SpankSkank
Posted - 2010.02.17 20:21:00 - [8]
 

I've had a tower up and down to do research occasionally but no long term plans as of yet. From my experience and reading the forums, I'd suggest finding a semi-quiet area of high sec and using NPC slots for manufacturing as was suggested above.

As for defenses..I wouldn't bother too much in high sec. A corp would have to wardec you first and you could take it all down within the 24hr window. Another option is the 'crap'star configuration of loading up with hardeners and ECM to make it a royal pain to attack the tower since BS is the largest ship they could bring to bear.

The downside to the 'take it down when decced' option is that if you have research going on at the time it will screw that up.

Namak Bulu
Gallente
Villore Regional Industries
Posted - 2010.02.17 20:56:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Namak Bulu on 17/02/2010 21:00:28
Invention I can absolutely foresee, Tech 2 Production doesn't seem likely for quite a while with its ties to moon harvesting and that just ain't happening with 5 players in low sec I don't think. No anchoring reactors and such in high-sec either. So I think Tech 2 BPO Invention might be as far as we can get out of the box. And your right sir, I see now that the corp hanger does suggest exactly that lol.

I am rethinking the entire defense stratagy, as one pointed out, we have 24 hours from a wardec to take it all down if we so choose. However, thats also enough time to take modules offline that we arn't running jobs on (if any) and haul em in, have to be a few i'd think. Anyway, and deploy extra batteries.

Now the relevent question on defense is, what hopes do 5 people have against a corporation that would dare to attack a POS with Hardeners, ECM & Turrent Batteries.

IE: Compared to the defenses we could deploy, what size force would be able to take out the batteries, and down the shields with the tower running with as much Strontium as we can pack into the thing.

Lets face it, if they can make it through the defenses, we ain't got any hopes of fending them off with 5 of us so might as well take it all down if we can't fight em off through POS defenses, even if we elected to go that route.

See what i'm getting at? Or do I need to clear this up lol? I mean if its like a corporation of 10 guys, i'd be hard pressed to believe they'd down a POS, even in Battleships.

EDIT: I'm actually going with these questions as I go along, and learn these things from you guys.

Induc
Amarr
Posted - 2010.02.17 22:19:00 - [10]
 

As a small corp in a small POS your best bet is just to avoid getting into a situation where you have to defend your POS.

If someone really wants to take down your POS, they will take down your POS. Hardeners and ECM will just slow them down, and strontium just means they would have to come back a day later to finish the job.

10 battleship's shouldn't have a too big trouble to take down a small POS, seeing as it can only fit something like 4 hardeners and 2 ECM's of each type.

Quote:

I've also calculated that if we mined 36 blue ice per hour for 2 hours a week, that is about a 73% reduction in weekly operational costs. Now that will fluctuate as the market does, but it outta stay close if I did everything right.

It's not free just because you mine it yourself, consider that doing L4 for money and buying the isotopes/heavy water/liquid ozone of the market might make you more fuel/hour spent.

LHA Tarawa
Posted - 2010.02.17 23:03:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Induc
It's not free just because you mine it yourself, consider that doing L4 for money and buying the isotopes/heavy water/liquid ozone of the market might make you more fuel/hour spent.


Exactly.... I can make 10-20 million an hour doing L4s and I max at about 5 million ice mining. 2 hours a week ice mining to shave 10 million off my operation cost? Or, 1 hour missioning to pay the bill for the fuel + 10 million left over.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2010.02.18 00:59:00 - [12]
 

The comment about ice also applies to the minerals you're manufacturing from. If you can run missions and earn more ISK in a given period of time than the ISK value of the minerals you'd mine, just buy the damned minerals off the market.

ISK/hr of mining vs missioning is, of course, entirely separate to the issue of whether you could manufacture stuff at a profit by buying the minerals from the market.

You will find that the most profitable outcome is to set up POS, start some research/copy jobs, get manufacturing jobs going in an NPC station, then head off to run a few missions while all that stuff is cooking. Then either start manufacturing runs or sell the BPCs on the market, depending on which activity will garner the highest profit margin.

If you can't make a profit buying minerals and ice off the market, you'd be better off mining those products and selling them raw.

And remember, even low-ball buy orders can get filled if you put them in the right place.

Train the wannabe Orca pilot up as a command ship pilot, with all the appropriate leadership skills. That pilot could end up flying eg: Damnation or Nighthawk.

Get the corp into the routine of tearing down the POS and setting it up again as quickly as possible, including the all-important step of knowing how to bump other people's industrials away so they don't nick your tower.

Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.02.18 04:33:00 - [13]
 

My advice:

Ditch the Gallente tower - it's bonus is for silos and you don't need those.
Move to a Minmatar or Caldari tower for a high-sec POS. I personally prefer Minmatar because it has more grid and can fit a decent number of weapons.

Ditch the missiles and railguns, go with projectiles. A couple each of small/medium AC and Arty.

Use ECM rather than damps.

Train up starbase defense to IV on at least a couple of characters.

If you get a war-dec, decide on whether to defend or go into super-reinforced mode (i.e. put the POS in a station hangar).

For Tech1 manufacturing, use the station. Use the POS to research your BPOs and make copies for future Tech2 invention.

Don't use a corp hangar - use a component assembly array - this uses less resources, allowing you to have more online, makes for decent storage and if you're ever in a hurry to manufacture something, but can't get a station slot you can whack the job into the array instead.

CONCORD will protect your POS if attacked without a war-dec. Most of the defence is about making it look like you know what you're doing - thus avoiding a war-dec in the first place. Undefended POS are far more likely to get war-dec'd.

Definitely put your BPOs in a station office - Do not put BPOs in a high-sec POS for any reason. Use Scientific Networking to do research - or simply fly your ship out to the POS and start the job from there (you don't actually need Scientific Networking, but it's easier if you have it).


Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.02.18 05:19:00 - [14]
 

I'd recommend a large tower. You will regret placing anything smaller.

Make it a Minmatar, as they have decent CPU and grid. Projectiles and the Minmatar sentry bonus are awesome.

I have my own large tower (Domination). So does a corp mate (True Sansha). They are not that hard to maintain.


Ekaterijna
Bespoke Blueprint Bureau
Posted - 2010.02.18 19:10:00 - [15]
 

Quote:
EDIT: Was going get an office in an NPC Station for the BPOs and use Scientific Networking so that if we do lose the station our BPOs arn't gone, if that works this way.

It does. You just need SciNet to L1 if you´re in the same solar system. The BPO always has to be in an NPC station in the same solar sytem. You can start/deliver a job from further away depending on your SciNet level.

You do have alternatives to setting up your own POS for research. You could join a research alliance. Or you could ask my corp to do bespoke research for you. :)

The economic choice depends on your research volume.

Gaogan
Gallente
Solar Storm
Sev3rance
Posted - 2010.02.18 19:40:00 - [16]
 

A few points for you to consider:

1) You're better of generally manufacturing in NPC stations as build slots generally are widely available. It is research slots that are usually booked. The building out of a pos only gets you a 25% speed bonus and no rental fees, but those are usually insignificant anyhow, certainly far less than fueling the pos costs.

2) You should consider using a caldari pos since they have the most cpu so you can get the most labs on it. Of course if you don't have enough research load to use more than one or two labs, it doesn't matter, in which case I'd say go for an amarr since the amarr isotopes seem to be the cheapest usually.

3) Defenses are pointless on a small. They only come into play for war targets in high sec anyhow, and while they will kill one loan idiot in a bs who warps to the tower and doesn't turn and run right away, they aren't going to do anything but tickle a proper fleet of a dozen or two rr bs coming to take it down.

Gareshor
Posted - 2010.02.18 21:04:00 - [17]
 

I can't really comment on the industrial aspect of things, as I am not an industrialist. However, your defenses suck. A small POS is painfull easy to take down, so if you can afford it, you'll want to go with at least a medium. Regardless of size, I recommend a "****star" setup. Drop all the weapons systems and stack nothing but ECM. It makes it extremely inconvenient for anyone without a large attack force to do anything, because they can't target the defenses or POS long enough to inflict any real damage. If you have room to spare, then you should put a few webifiers and small rails or blasters onto it, to further limit the potentiall of a decentralized attack of many small ships, such as stealth bombers. As a small group of players without access to a large defensive force, your goal isn't to make your POS well defended. Your goal is to make it look un-appetizing to those who would be interested in attacking it. Those people are relatively small corps of PVP mercs, looking for a quick buck for 2 nights work. You make your POS a hassle to kill, and you'll be okay. Also, don't use missiles. They suck.

Kusum Fawn
Posted - 2010.02.18 22:16:00 - [18]
 

Agreed, if its just you and your small group of friends, dont worry about the offensive too much, and concentrate on the defensive, a dikc star will definately be the direction you want to go, but i (like all of the others here) also strongly suggest at the very least, as Medium tower. I would go for a large, but the fuel costs vs how much space you actually need is really up to you, (I find that after your basic set of bpo's is researched, its the copy slots that are always booked, not the ME/PE ones) a 5 copy 15 run cruiser job is 13 days or so, and you will want that to be constant after its at a nice ME, (then add ammo, modules, caps, bs's, etc)

Dropping a bil total or so on the tower (factions are nice) and pos mods, (need those labs) is pretty common, oh and get your corp together for a single night of ice mining, and spend the rest of your time missioning for those charters, (for hisec you need 720 charters per month = 4000 lp per tower)

http://www.vexar.de/pos_fitter/
this is a nice tool to help you figure out your pos fitting, and the fuel requirements, working it out with a notepad to keep track of how many slots you will have open for each me/pe/copy/invention is easier when you arent juggling powergrid and cpu as well.

Ive found that if you get a pos in a system with a station (as you always should in hisec) there doesnt need to be any storage at the pos it self, (labs have like 25000 m/3 storage too) so there isnt any reason to have a corp hanger at the pos. (or silos, for that matter) As to your defenses, a small gallente tower cant support all that online at the same time, (defenses can be anchored though, and onlined at the right time) but if its just the 5 of you then there isnt much that you will be able to do even with the defenses vs a determined attacker. just take the tower down, and with fewer anchored things that will be faster.

if you do go with a small tower, im not sure that i would put anything but the labs on it, (and that would be 2x labs + 1x adv lab) make sure its full of stront and go about my buisness, most corps dont want to kill a small nonfaction tower if theres nothing in it

oh, ive almost never run into the problem of there being no manufacturing slots free in gallente space, but i guess i do kind of live in a corner.

Mara Tessidar
Posted - 2010.02.18 22:23:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Namak Bulu
Edited by: Namak Bulu on 17/02/2010 18:11:34
The defenses are kinda out of my league in terms of effectiveness, but here is what i've come up with.

4 Warp Scrambling Batteries
4 Sensor Dampening Batteries
4 Small Railgun Batteries
3 Cruise Missile Batteries.
quote]

NO. Missiles are not an option for defending a POS. If your tower goes into reinforced, they will not operate, but guns that don't use CPU will. Hence, only defend your POS with guns that do not rely on CPU.

Namak Bulu
Gallente
Villore Regional Industries
Posted - 2010.02.21 23:22:00 - [20]
 

Ok, i'm getting conflicting views here, "go medium rails" vs "Defense is pointless". Now I happen to side with the defense is pointless POV. Reason is because, well, there are 5 of us total and not likely to take out a determined attacker, as was pointed out.

That being said, I still want to have some defenses up. What I think may be our best option is.... *Drum Roll* TORPEDO & CRUISE MISSLE BATTERIES!!

Now anyone reading this sentence is cussing me, and calling me a dumb [INSERT GENERIC INSULTS HERE]. But, as I said, we are screwed if we actually get attacked by a determind attacker anyway because once the tower enters reienforced mode the damn thing can't be taken down, and we can't defend it with just the 5 of us.

Missle Batteries, do provide several advantages. A) they are cheap, B) They hit hard, C) Can put a ton of em up, with the low power requirements and low CPU usage, that is at least with the configurations i've been playing around with.

We should have quite a bit of CPU left over. Most likely we're going to be disassembling the thing once a wardec is received anyway. No reason to invest alot into defence, not without more peeps anyway.

Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.02.22 00:37:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Baka Lakadaka on 22/02/2010 00:38:40
Originally by: Namak Bulu
Ok, i'm getting conflicting views here, "go medium rails" vs "Defense is pointless". Now I happen to side with the defense is pointless POV. Reason is because, well, there are 5 of us total and not likely to take out a determined attacker, as was pointed out.

That being said, I still want to have some defenses up. What I think may be our best option is.... *Drum Roll* TORPEDO & CRUISE MISSLE BATTERIES!!

Now anyone reading this sentence is cussing me, and calling me a dumb [INSERT GENERIC INSULTS HERE]. But, as I said, we are screwed if we actually get attacked by a determind attacker anyway because once the tower enters reienforced mode the damn thing can't be taken down, and we can't defend it with just the 5 of us.

Missle Batteries, do provide several advantages. A) they are cheap, B) They hit hard, C) Can put a ton of em up, with the low power requirements and low CPU usage, that is at least with the configurations i've been playing around with.

We should have quite a bit of CPU left over. Most likely we're going to be disassembling the thing once a wardec is received anyway. No reason to invest alot into defence, not without more peeps anyway.


Perception is EVERYTHING in this - if the pirate corp sees you putting missile defences on a high-sec POS, they are almost definitely going to think "Noobs, no clue, let's war-dec them".

If however they see a well planned, artillery/autocannon defence with ECM and hardeners they are quite probably going to think "Too hard, let's move on". (provided they aren't on some sort of Jihad, and/or you haven't ****ed them off)

Regardless of whether you're going to pull it down when you're war-dec'd, you want to give the perception that the tower is going to cost them dearly for little reward. Missiles will not give that perception.


Namak Bulu
Gallente
Villore Regional Industries
Posted - 2010.02.22 01:29:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Namak Bulu on 22/02/2010 01:30:37
How can you have a good research and manufacturing array off a medium tower and still give the illusion of a well planned defense, maybe i'm just over-estimating our needs here. I do see the point however,

Luverly Buns
Posted - 2010.02.22 01:35:00 - [23]
 

It's good to see this topic as I have just set up my first POS with a 3 account (1 man!) corp. It's in 0.5

I went with a large control tower as I can afford the fuel with my manufacturing. I would appreciate feedback and I agree with most posters that the OP should definitely go bigger than a small CT. I know my setup is probably not the best, but I also know I will take the whole lot down if I get wardec'd.

My setup is:

1 x Large Caldari Control Tower
4x Assorted shield hardeners
4x Cruise Missile Batteries
4x Torpedo Batteries
2x Warp Scramblers (otherwiuse no point in putting weapons up)
2x Energy Neutralisers
1x White noise generator
1x Mobile lab
2x Advance Mobile lab
Various assembly arrays

I am on my way to get a set of medium hybrid guns after reading the comment that they can operate without CPU.

The way I look at it I will not survive a proper fight and am just trying to make my POS look like it's more trouble than it's worth, with the intention of spending a couple of hours taking it down if I get a wardec. I keep a low profile though and I am in a quiet area, so I hope that I will not attract attention.

To the OP, like everyone else said, I think you really really need to up the CT to medium at the least. Otherwise I would stick with minimal defences and just take it down if you get a dec.

This is my first POS too - I wish you luck!


Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.02.22 02:00:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Namak Bulu
Edited by: Namak Bulu on 22/02/2010 01:30:37
How can you have a good research and manufacturing array off a medium tower and still give the illusion of a well planned defense, maybe i'm just over-estimating our needs here. I do see the point however,


You can anchor and load the guns, but you don't need them to be online. War-decs take 24 hours to start, so you can offline some labs and online guns when needed. Guns are for show until the war-dec starts - the only targets you can shoot are war-targets. (technically you can shoot anyone who shoots your POS randomly, but the chances of CONCORD taking long enough for your POS guns to lock and fire are close to zero).


Namak Bulu
Gallente
Villore Regional Industries
Posted - 2010.02.22 02:39:00 - [25]
 

Basically, just buy all the defences, run what we can afford too and offline the rest and take it down if we get wardec'ed or bring it online at the start. Sounds like fun.

Jamie Banks
Quantum Horizons
Posted - 2010.02.22 07:40:00 - [26]
 

Some points, I agree some I don't.

Point 1: Don't buy a large/medium POS unless it is going to make you money (if you buy a large or medium and you dont make enough to cover the costs of running it, its just a waste of ISK, unless you count the value of looking at your very own creation and POS (which can be big depending on the size of your e-peen)

Point 2: When fitting out a POS (especially caldari) fit lots of ECM the PG/CPU requirments are very low, personally I have 16 ECM batteries on a medium POS, and it is mainly for show.

Point 3: IMO setup your POS neat structured and ordered with a 'good looking' setup, the chance of you getting wardec'd is directly related to how other players feel they will perform against a pos. Its a case of, the more I have, the less likely I'm gonna have to use it.

Point 4: If you prefer to leave the POS anchored and 'fight' put as many modules as you can to the POS, leave them all offline (as no PG/CPU is used and only online them when you go on vacation or get wardecd). I fit 2 of every module (at least) and far more than the POS is capable of running at any one time. Again this shows you that you are prepared for a fight and are prepared to lose modules but still be effective. (when the enemy fleet incapacitates one ECM module, online another.

Dasola
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.02.22 07:59:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Dasola on 22/02/2010 08:02:51
Basicly why everyone hates missile batteries as pos defence is that they need cpu. If enemy manages to force your tower in reinforced state, it stops cpu and there goes your missile batteries. In reinforced they will just sit there and do nothing, but take damage from enemy.

All other guns (Projectiles, lasers, hydrids) dont use cpu so they still keep on fireing enemy even if pos is reinforced.

If you put spare guns at pos, dont forget to put ammunition in them too. Embarassed That way when you need to online them, they are ready to go from first second online.

Chinese Chick
Posted - 2010.02.22 08:58:00 - [28]
 

Depending on the scale of your operation and the ISK you can spare, you should indeed go for a large tower (expandability) if at all possible a faction tower (Uses less fuel).
Don't go for Gallente but rather Caldari (CPU), Minmatar is ok, but for industry you want CPU.
Since it's empire, I'd recomend not to bother with defence too much, unless wardec is imminent.

To give you an idea the DG Large tower we have running in empire (0.5 system) can be fueled with 350mil every 8 weeks.
We have 12 labs going along with corp hangar and a couple of assembly arrays
If **** hits the fan we can offline labs and put up a good defence (wardec takes 24h to go into effect)
Go for gunz rather than missiles (better dmg and the CPU thingy)
People hate damps, but they are fun... cheap, easy to fit and really mess with someones day (think dozens of them)
EWAR to break locks (1 or 2 of each type)
Webs and scrams to actually get kills with it.
CONCORD won't react to POS killing ppl (afaik, our POS is a nice POS)

One more thing... large tower can run for about 19-20 days without refueling, good if you go afg for a bit

my 2 cents
Good luck

Abervest
Posted - 2010.02.22 21:21:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Jamie Banks
Some points, I agree some I don't.

Point 1: Don't buy a large/medium POS unless it is going to make you money (if you buy a large or medium and you dont make enough to cover the costs of running it, its just a waste of ISK, unless you count the value of looking at your very own creation and POS (which can be big depending on the size of your e-peen)


While perhaps it can be an epeen issue, not buying a small tower goes a little bit beyond that. Small towers are fairly easy and cheap to maintain but the space for expansion is very limited, like i posted before it is very easy to fill up all the slots a small tower can provide, my corp has 5 active researchers/inventers, while the invention slots arent always crowded, the copy slots always, are me and my one alt can crowd a medium pos (granted though it isnt as full of labs as it could be be but i do get shouted at for taking up all the slots regularly)

three researchers will need more slots then a small tower can supply, just in copy. think about starting with a medium and skimp on the lab compliment before you waste 100 mil on a small tower you need to replace in two weeks.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.02.22 22:01:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 22/02/2010 22:08:50

Small tower defenses: NONE, because it is impossible to defend a small tower.

Medium tower defenses: All offline! shield hardeners, ECM and a few small and medium guns (projectiles on all but Amarr towers), webifier, warp disruptors. Ammo: EMP + Phased Plasma for prjectiles, Multifrequency for lasers.

Large tower: Same as medium, just MORE!


I like to use EVE ONline POS Builder, though it doesn't have T3 structures (there are equivalents though).

FYI: one person can have 11 research jobs and 11 manufacturing jobs active. I have 4 labs just to myself (2x advanced, 1x regular, 1x hyasoda).



 

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