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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2010.05.13 17:58:00 - [211]
 

My one question to CCP tanis is,

several players have been thinking that combining the fleet finder menu, with the fleet window has been a source of the fleet lag as it continuously updates or periodicaly updates with the information of ALL the fleet in game.

Have you guys been investigating this issue as in trying the fleet mode w/o the fleet finder in game (pre dominion) or seperating it out keeping the fleet menus seperate from teh fleet finder?

Ban Doga
Posted - 2010.05.13 19:28:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: CCP Tanis


SNIP (because of length restriction)





Good to hear something again.
Although the message is not very convincing.

Could you say something to this "light at the end of the tunnel" that appears to be held back until summer like CCP Hammerhead said (he said CCP don't want to deploy it at the same time as Tyrannis, so I assume there is something that could be deployed but won't be - or did he really mean there is nothing to deploy as of this time?)

Regarding that "keep everyone as well informed as possible":
I don't feel well informed at all.
This testing started in January and all we heard since then is "we get great data", "still investigating", "keep it coming".
It's literally the same message during all this time - it's basically no information.

When you say you want to continue with this investigation in the coming months and don't want to talk about the results until you know all the facts and resolved the problem - we're still talking about lag here, right? - when do you expect this to come to an end which will lead to a deployment of a patch and some kind of public result?

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.05.13 20:16:00 - [213]
 

Originally by: CCP Tanis
Howdy folks,

Dropping by to share some info and answer some questions:


Why not use TQ data/test on TQ?

Two reasons, really: First, as Chssmius suggests, debugging the live code would put too much stress on TQ and result in a massive loss of stability and performance, and we want TQ to run smoother, not worse.
Second, because we know how it works on TQ right now, what we really want to know is how it will perform on the new, Tyrannis code base. We've added a lot of stuff, changed plenty of stuff, added optimizations to address performance bottlenecks, and it is vital that we know how these changes have effected server and client performance overall.


Why haven't we heard more about the status of the Fleet/Lag investigation?

To be blunt, because we're still investigating it.

As with other investigations like this one, until we know all the facts and have resolved the problem, we feel that it is still too premature to put out all the details. Otherwise we run the risk of giving out information that ends up being incorrect and misleading people, which would really only make the whole situation more of a headache for everyone.

That said, I can assure you that we are still working on it and will always be working toward increasing the performance of EVE as a whole.

Remember, Mass-Testing is an ongoing effort to involve the community in assessing the overall quality of EVE, rather than something we do purely for this investigation. Mass-testing provides us a venue to investigate the reports of fleet issues/lag/jumping issues, but they are separate things.


Moar improvements to Mass-Testing, ORLY?

In the coming months, we will be continuing to iterate on the Mass-Testing program, focusing on improving our feedback and reporting mechanisms. As part of this, we will be working directly with you, the players of EVE, to determine what info is the right info to be putting out there to keep everyone as well informed as possible.

In addition to that we will also be looking into tools and features that we can add to make participating in these tests easier, more rewarding, and to have more of a chance to make a meaningful and positive impact on the performance of EVE as a whole. We stand firm in our commitment to working with the EVE community to make EVE better, more fun, and more rewarding for everyone.


Keep it coming!!

All the feedback, criticism, complaints, and kudos that you've posted/sent has been awesome. It may not seem like it, but we read every single post. Your input helps tell us not just how we're doing, but also helps us identify key areas where YOU want to see improvements the most. Developing in a vacuum is never a good thing, and the more feedback you folks give us, the more we can tune and tailor EVE to best suit the people who play it.

so.. keep it coming, good, bad, in between.. we still very much want to know what's on your minds!
Nice update and thank you for taking the time to inform us!

It must be one whopper of a coding issue to forcast that it still might be months before anything meaningful can be done about fleet lag issues. Wth got so screwed up with the dominion code to knock literally years of progress away in a flash?! Shocked

Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2010.05.13 21:29:00 - [214]
 

Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: CCP Tanis
Update text.
...

It must be one whopper of a coding issue to forecast that it still might be months before anything meaningful can be done about fleet lag issues. WTH got so screwed up with the dominion code to knock literally years of progress away in a flash?! Shocked
And this is the "big question" that nobody with "CCP" in front of their name is willing to publicly answer.

Jamus Gorrelius
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.05.13 22:43:00 - [215]
 

Originally by: CCP Tanis
Howdy folks,

Dropping by to share some info and answer some questions:


Why not use TQ data/test on TQ?

Two reasons, really: First, as Chssmius suggests, debugging the live code would put too much stress on TQ and result in a massive loss of stability and performance, and we want TQ to run smoother, not worse.
Second, because we know how it works on TQ right now, what we really want to know is how it will perform on the new, Tyrannis code base. We've added a lot of stuff, changed plenty of stuff, added optimizations to address performance bottlenecks, and it is vital that we know how these changes have effected server and client performance overall.


Why haven't we heard more about the status of the Fleet/Lag investigation?

To be blunt, because we're still investigating it.

As with other investigations like this one, until we know all the facts and have resolved the problem, we feel that it is still too premature to put out all the details. Otherwise we run the risk of giving out information that ends up being incorrect and misleading people, which would really only make the whole situation more of a headache for everyone.

That said, I can assure you that we are still working on it and will always be working toward increasing the performance of EVE as a whole.

Remember, Mass-Testing is an ongoing effort to involve the community in assessing the overall quality of EVE, rather than something we do purely for this investigation. Mass-testing provides us a venue to investigate the reports of fleet issues/lag/jumping issues, but they are separate things.


Moar improvements to Mass-Testing, ORLY?

In the coming months, we will be continuing to iterate on the Mass-Testing program, focusing on improving our feedback and reporting mechanisms. As part of this, we will be working directly with you, the players of EVE, to determine what info is the right info to be putting out there to keep everyone as well informed as possible.

In addition to that we will also be looking into tools and features that we can add to make participating in these tests easier, more rewarding, and to have more of a chance to make a meaningful and positive impact on the performance of EVE as a whole. We stand firm in our commitment to working with the EVE community to make EVE better, more fun, and more rewarding for everyone.


Keep it coming!!

All the feedback, criticism, complaints, and kudos that you've posted/sent has been awesome. It may not seem like it, but we read every single post. Your input helps tell us not just how we're doing, but also helps us identify key areas where YOU want to see improvements the most. Developing in a vacuum is never a good thing, and the more feedback you folks give us, the more we can tune and tailor EVE to best suit the people who play it.

so.. keep it coming, good, bad, in between.. we still very much want to know what's on your minds!


So were going to have to wait another 3 months for a fix to a problem that you have created with the launch of dominion, and your going to have your players sit in this lag infested game with the mechanics that you introduced with the new sov system.

you have done 3 months of testing already and we have multiple wars and tbh we want to fight these wars not look at a black screen of death with CCP saying nothing constructive on this matter.

Every one was hoping and praying for a fix with this expansion and were not going to get it.

-3 accounts had enough of this.

Krimishkev
GONE RETARD BACK LATER
Posted - 2010.05.14 07:00:00 - [216]
 

Edited by: Krimishkev on 14/05/2010 07:01:57
Originally by: Jamus Gorrelius

-3 accounts had enough of this.


Stuff, pls.


FawKa
Gallente
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.05.14 12:22:00 - [217]
 

I agree with Jamus;
It is indeed getting frustrating that we have been praying for a fix since dominion.
I know it has been said plenty of times, but 3 months later you have to admit Tanis, that dominion should have been postponed (slash rolled back if you will after it's release).

Tyrannis doesn't give us anything;
We are in this game to make wars. You yourself CCP has said that this is a wargame, we are here to destroy.
Tyrannis doesn't make it possible for us to make wars, and only real feature is planetary interaction which non of us has a need for.
I both drool and cry when I see your trailors - simply because they will never be reality. I think back on right before dominion when the lag all of a sudden disapeared. I got a hard time figuring out how it can been so defficult to figure out what change you made in Dom that turned the boat upside down.


I am not one of the "I'll quit"- guys, but you have got to start reaching for the players that are already here, and has been here for years, instead of pushing for new players. Look at what reason we keep playing for.

- - -

In terms of the stress-test:

- grid usually dies with the deployment of drones (or at least everbodys FPS dies), this has to be tested further.

- paying attention to the monitor (ctrl+alt+shift+m) makes some rather odd changes once the server gets semi laggy. Outstanding calls all of a sudden rolls to 300+. You do not have to be on grid for this to happen, but just in system. Why does this happen?

- I think features where brackets automaticly turn of (at least for drones) should be in place. I have them off, but I think the people that doesnt have makes it the more laggy for the rest no?

- Same goes for automatic turn-off from auto-reload, auto-cycle guns, auto-agro-drones etc. This might be quite a drastic change, but would it help in relations to grid-lag?

- I am not sure, but I seem to remember the grids changed in dominion. As in how you expand them etc. In my experience a grid-load spot doesnt work as effective as it used to. I think you now load more than you have to from a say 350-400km spot.

- you, CCP, has to give more guides such as the dev-blog that mentioned the monitor and outstanding calls etc. As it is right now, too many people are unaware of how lag works and probably only makes it worse. 500 ppl not knowing anything in a system with 1500 kills it instead of letting it live on the edge. That's my theory anyways.

- There's more.. But we'll see how it goes tomorrow. See your on grid Tanis, come in something we can kill you in ahaha
keep up the good work

Elowine
Caldari
FP Enterprise
Posted - 2010.05.14 18:16:00 - [218]
 

Originally by: FawKa
I agree with Jamus;
Tyrannis doesn't give us anything;
We are in this game to make wars.
[..] which non of us has a need for.


Please speak for yourself and don't come up with "non of us .." crap.

EVE is about warfare yes but Economics are equally important in this game.
PI is another step forward in giving the players more control in the economic system. Less NPC stuff = more player control.

A fairly large portion of the EVE players loves mining, building and playing with the market and this will be a nice addition to there daily activities. The last few expansions were loaded with features for the people like you who like to destroy stuff, now it's our turn.

Duke Nelson
Posted - 2010.05.14 20:55:00 - [219]
 

I personally think people whining about lag most likely don't have any idea how complex a game Eve is and how much work CCP do in the background to keep TQ running well ... it's not like CCP want to make fleet fights laggy, but the more complex the game (and the longer it's been in development) the more tricky it is to balance out, and issues do occur.

PI - I've been playing with it on Sisi and I love what I've seen and the potential it holds for the game, I've had some Eve burn-out of the past few months but am now more interested than ever at the addition of this. Think back to the HUGE addition that was WH's and exploration. CCP are doing an amazing job on this game and we should support them, not ***** and moan <prep's for flaming to come>.

Sisi test - I haven't been able to update Sisi since a patch went up / update occurred Thursday I think it was. Still right now I can't access the Sisi patch on the CCP Tanis link at the start of this thread. I'm hoping an updated patch will be released today, so I can update Sisi in prep for tomorrow ... any news on the patch release would be appreciated.

Ok ... Flame on suckers!

FawKa
Gallente
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.05.15 09:52:00 - [220]
 

Edited by: FawKa on 15/05/2010 09:52:53
Elowine @

You are right, it came out wrong, sorry.
Everyone is needed but CCP has in public said that it is a PVP game. If that particular part doesn't work at all, I see the whole thing shatter.

If the industrials had as much lag doing what they like the most, we would have a lot more presure on CCP. That making them working better is a whole other question however. (Better is a bad choice of word but you get the idea).

Point is that the trailers shows one thing to pull new people in, and I really understand why people get caught, but once they are good enough to hit the large fleet fights they are right where 'we' are now. I love these wars, I'd love to lose even.. But not because 'we' can't stay up 5 hours because of a black screen.

Rok Qhang'Rawl
Joint Espionage and Defence Industries
Posted - 2010.05.15 20:22:00 - [221]
 

At 1600 on May 15 the patch still seemed to be missing. Sisi client couldn't update itself.... it was fixed something later but by then it was too late for a 2.6GB download to complete and install, then get into game and in position for the mass testing for a few of us given how late it showed up.

CCP might want to put some emphasis on getting the build/patch system fixed up to be more efficient in selecting and deploying patches to Sisi clients?

The incremental improvements to public testing are noticed and appreciated but we still need to work out some friction points. I totally understand the patch being held out to get some last minute fixes in, but we need a wider time window to deploy them.

Hacra
Minmatar
Cosmodynamics
Posted - 2010.05.15 20:46:00 - [222]
 

Edited by: Hacra on 15/05/2010 20:46:02
1. Used: Download TQ to Singularity Patch link.
2. Got 28x Mb patch
3. Version: 6.30.152090
4. Incompatible Version????

Oracle Jo
Epsilon Lyr
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2010.05.15 21:07:00 - [223]
 

can't log in

Dumb Chick
Posted - 2010.05.16 02:34:00 - [224]
 

Call me a Dumb Chick, but unless I'm missing something, it looks to me like Tyrannis is installing but it's aiming at TQ and not Sisi.

I've tried a copy/paste of latest TQ client then applying the latest patch, and then a fresh installation of the latest Sisi client (when I noticed this).

Hope this helps.

Gribzor
Advanced Engineering and Research
Posted - 2010.05.16 09:23:00 - [225]
 

When you patch the client you need to change the shortcut. You need to add: /server:87.237.38.50

A nice guide can be found here.

Thorir
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2010.05.16 11:08:00 - [226]
 

Just wanted to drop my feedback in case if it helps you.

I managed to stay for round 1 and 2, but it was to late for the Eve-Gate test for me after 2 hours.

1/3 The PI functions did not reveal any lag or difficulties for any of my 3 accounts I was running.

2/3 The earlier jump lagged for 1,5m but you probably already know that. The fight when they jumped in was really hard to bear. Guns not cycling and a lot of lag with less that 400 in system. Since I was not in the group jumping in, I'm not sure if the lag was evenly distributed. FPS was fine though.

Hope everything goes good in coming week to help with the fleet lag. o/

Ehrine Ashbark
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.16 14:57:00 - [227]
 

Originally by: FawKa
Edited by: FawKa on 15/05/2010 09:52:53
Elowine @

You are right, it came out wrong, sorry.
Everyone is needed but CCP has in public said that it is a PVP game. If that particular part doesn't work at all, I see the whole thing shatter.


PvP isn't just about shooting each other. Most of the market is player driven with players trying to get the most profit for them, not their competitors. Just because you don't see them shooting each other doesn't mean it's not Player V Player interaction. PI is an addition to the industrial aspects of PvP, but it's still something that players will have to compete over. It's just as much PvP as anything else.

Camios
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.16 17:00:00 - [228]
 

Edited by: Camios on 16/05/2010 17:24:32
Dominion was released 6 months ago.

In six months CCP

-did not manage to understand why apocrypha was way better
-did not change anything on the gameplay mechanics to avoid 1000+ fights that will always be laggy, even with the best SW and HW technology.

I am just not going into big fights anymore, they are fun for the FCs only (maybe).
CCP should understand that without a gameplay mechanic modification they are not going anywhere.

I mean, if you don't manage to solve the lag problem with techology,

DON'T YOU HAVE A PLAN B?


Fuma Flautai
Posted - 2010.05.17 13:47:00 - [229]
 

Edited by: Fuma Flautai on 17/05/2010 13:53:27
EDIT: I'm an idiot. Should have started from the first page not the last.
I found what I wanted.

In case you are curious if you can use Singularity with a newly reactivated character, go here:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=509355

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2010.05.18 21:33:00 - [230]
 

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code
in the first place. Therefore, if you write the
code as cleverly as possible, you are, by
definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian Kernighan

Emma Royd
Caldari
Maddled Gommerils
Posted - 2010.05.19 19:05:00 - [231]
 

25 hours to test time and server status unknown Rolling Eyes

Was hoping to join in but unless the server comes online soon™ I'll be nowhere near X-B Crying or Very sad

Ban Doga
Posted - 2010.05.19 19:22:00 - [232]
 

Originally by: Emma Royd
25 hours to test time and server status unknown Rolling Eyes

Was hoping to join in but unless the server comes online soon™ I'll be nowhere near X-B Crying or Very sad



Don't worry about getting to the destination.
They can move you (including your current ship) in a blink of an eye...

Msquare
Posted - 2010.05.19 23:50:00 - [233]
 

Edited by: Msquare on 20/05/2010 08:38:45
[email protected]:50 I've got 152410, which is the latest according to the SISI patch page, but when logging in to SISI it says incompatible ....

Update [email protected]:30
Well, it patched normally now. Probably got caught between a server and client deployment. It is SISIs downtime at the moment so not 100% OK yet.

Thargan Thegol
Amarr
Posted - 2010.05.20 00:07:00 - [234]
 

Originally by: Msquare
I've got 152410, which is the latest according to the SISI patch page, but when logging in to SISI it says incompatible ....


Me the same.
Repair brings me back to Dominion but as corrupt Folder...^^

Well, the MassTest will run without me...

Another one Full Download is no Option, at 2GB+

Aegirson Thorgal
Posted - 2010.05.20 07:21:00 - [235]
 

Edited by: Aegirson Thorgal on 20/05/2010 07:21:51
Copied.
Updated.
ver 153.183
server: tranquility
status: incompatible (version)
unable to change destination server
any advice?

Chyeen
Minmatar
ZiiP Empire
Posted - 2010.05.20 08:30:00 - [236]
 

Originally by: Aegirson Thorgal
Edited by: Aegirson Thorgal on 20/05/2010 07:21:51
Copied.
Updated.
ver 153.183
server: tranquility
status: incompatible (version)
unable to change destination server
any advice?


Did you put the IP in the shortcut?

add /server:87.237.38.50 for Singularity and press OK

The final look of the Target line would look something like this ( Different between client locations )
"C:\evetest\eve.exe" /server:87.237.38.50

Aegirson Thorgal
Posted - 2010.05.20 10:37:00 - [237]
 

Edited by: Aegirson Thorgal on 20/05/2010 10:43:34
Edited by: Aegirson Thorgal on 20/05/2010 10:41:39
High 5 Chyeen!
Works as hell \o/


Scorpion here I come ;)



EDIT: minute later server status: not accepting connections... just in the middle of a intro...

barryNL
Posted - 2010.05.20 11:50:00 - [238]
 

Hi all
I whant to play but my english is not good so i cant go whit you all =0< Crying or Very sad
I onley talk good english

ana hena
Posted - 2010.05.20 13:33:00 - [239]
 

hi

can some one help please, what is meant by copy the client?? where is it located? thanks

Rixiu
The Inuits
Posted - 2010.05.20 13:44:00 - [240]
 

Originally by: ana hena
hi

can some one help please, what is meant by copy the client?? where is it located? thanks


Assuming you're using windows it's in C:\program files\CCP or something like that, depending on which drive you installed eve on. Create a copy of the entire "eve" folder.


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