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blankseplocked what the hell is up with carbon-86?
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Olusegun Obasanjo
Posted - 2010.02.05 20:20:00 - [1]

Edited by: Olusegun Obasanjo on 05/02/2010 20:21:52
price has gone from 950k two days ago to over 1.2 mill. up until now price has been pretty stable.

is this a drying out of supply or manipulation?

EDIT: doesn't really look like manipulation, looks like a decrease in supply, but orders are piling up and looks like the price is staying pretty stable at 1.2mill, guess it takes awhile for WH reactors to react to price shocks

Posted - 2010.02.05 20:58:00 - [2]


Some people have pulled their characters out of wormholes in order to fight in current wars. Some wormhole operations have been shut down too. Some people switched their wormhole reactions to T2 for things that were more profitable or if they didn't have enough raw materials.

Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
Posted - 2010.02.05 21:13:00 - [3]

Edited by: SencneS on 05/02/2010 21:13:41
Material costs to make Carbon-86 is between 720K(material off buy order) and 888K(material off sell order)

It's clear the market adjusted. Because 804K (Average) + Broker + Tax comes to about 813K.

You also process 8 units an hour per reactor. Supply is slow.

Alice Celadon
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.02.05 21:46:00 - [4]

Also until you see FCs call for T3 gangs, at 120-150 ships sold per day carbon-86 is vulnerable as farnsworth to manipulation. Even before the T2 bubble sufflated, carbon-86 would move in 300k oscillations week to week.

I take it you're new to T3. Welcome!

Posted - 2010.02.05 22:01:00 - [5]

This confirms it then, it has been manipulated and will drop to it's original price soon.
Thanks for the info.

Alice Celadon
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.02.05 22:44:00 - [6]

Edited by: Alice Celadon on 05/02/2010 22:46:23
Yeah, I don't know if you can chalk it up to direct manipulation. Remember, most of those 86s are being made in WHs. Most WH corps I've observed wait until there's a portal to hisec to ship. This spurs a natural ebb and flow of the high cargo-space polymers.

On the other hand, this is the second thread where I've had to point out that the entire T3 market is a 40 billion isk a day enterprise. You can buy up a single bottleneck (for instance, all armor relics) for a few billion. Producers should be playing the materials side long and the sell side short to maximize profits.

Edit: Warning to manipulators: it's not like the static-supply moons. The bears will fire up the drakes and buzzards if any price point creeps very high.

Olusegun Obasanjo
Posted - 2010.02.06 06:32:00 - [7]

looks like its not just isolated to c-86, seems that various polymers are also spiking due to the same reasons, could this be to lower wormhole activity? might just less ppl in WHs setting up reactors nowadays

Ben Harrigan
Posted - 2010.02.06 06:57:00 - [8]

The polymer market does indeed ebb and flow regularly, as has been mentioned probably because of a large delay in manufacturing.

Currently prices are spiking a bit more than usually, starting with Carbon-86 and spreading to other polymers. My guess is as manufacturers slowly switch to Carbon-86 supply of other polymers decrease, leading to a delayed increase in those prices.

Before this happened there was an increase in the prices of Fullerenes, but the polymer prices was stable for quite a while. So most likely this is mainly a delayed effect of the higher Fullerene prices.

Some manipulation always happens, but the general trend at the moment is not caused by manipulation.

So its really just normal market movements, but they happen on a much larger time scale than most other items, the market takes a long time to settle.

Celia Therone
Posted - 2010.02.06 07:20:00 - [9]

Edited by: Celia Therone on 06/02/2010 07:29:49
My impression has been that there has been an increase in T3 hull production (at least) that has increased demand for T3 components. T3 hull prices have been trending downwards (understand that I haven't been following them that closely in the last few weeks).

The profit margins for T3 gas reactions have also been falling (or were a few weeks ago) and I can't speak for anyone else but I got out of the T3 reactions market. Essentially you could make ok money if you could buy gasses (c320 and c540) at Jita buy prices but you'd lose money if you bought at Jita sell (c320 at least, used in carbon-86). Not enough volume was shipping at Jita buy to reliably maintain reactions which is horribly inconvenient as switching reactions around is quite time consuming.

Honestly the T3 reactions are a pain in the rear to run from the market. Traded gas volumes are low (lots of time camping Jita), the gasses have to be reacted in low sec (heinous shipping time, especially with no jump freighter), and the gasses have huge volume which means that you have to tend the input silos more than once/day to keep the reactions running. It's an exercise in tedium and masochism. Plus the influx of reacted components into Jita was very spiky which meant that if you went on market at a bad time you could get into aggressive price wars for a couple of weeks making it very difficult to accurately project profitability.

Also, as a long term trend, the low end gasses are massively undervalued. You earn less mining the four least profitable gasses in zero sec wormhole space than you do semi-afk mining scordite in high sec. Surely at some point people are going to just start ignoring the semi-worthless gasses and the prices will rise? On the other hand c84 and c60 are paired with valuable c50 so in order to clear those sites and hope for a respawn you're forced to mine out the less profitable gasses too. Supply and demand ratios may just be borked.

Red Horizon Inc
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2010.02.06 18:04:00 - [10]

You also need to realize that a lot of gas gets mined and reacted directly in wormhole space - I mean heck you're setting up a POS anyways, may as well throw in the reactor and what not.


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