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Pulivin Motic
Caldari
Outer Limits Trading Company
Posted - 2010.02.04 23:48:00 - [1]
 

Just wondering if there is an actual political theory that sort of follows their political philosophy.

Graelyn
Amarr
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2010.02.05 01:25:00 - [2]
 

Planet Earth?

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2010.02.05 01:51:00 - [3]
 


Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2010.02.05 03:11:00 - [4]
 

Its called:
State Capitalism

Quote:
a society wherein the productive forces are controlled and directed by the state in a capitalist manner


Quote:
By that definition, a state capitalist country is one where the government controls the economy and essentially acts like a single giant corporation.


Mega corps anyone?

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2010.02.05 04:06:00 - [5]
 

At one time in Japan as the Daimyo of the past became the Zaibatsu of pre WWII Japan - it could be argued that Japan was something like this.

Of course a lot of your socialist countries are like this to a degree.

The National Socialists of the Third Reich also come to mind.



The thing is ... in most cases the military was a greater power base than the industrialists. As Mao said "Power grows out of the barrel of a gun." If the industrialists get out of line - the military can just shoot them and put someone else in their place.

Thus, the back story to EVE is some what lame.

As a GAME, EVE works well ... but ... the chances of any person or group with real military - and therefore political power - to allow corporations, especially player corporations, to act as they do in EVE is absurd.

The purpose of government is to provide stability to promote internal economic growth and protect against external aggression. Allowing Corporations to go to war with each other would not happen, at least in Hi Sec, though a Wild West area like 0.0 could still exist beyond that part of space the Faction Navies patrolled.

The thing here is that you have these multitude of Neutral, unconquerable NPC corporation Space Stations. That wouldn't happen. Either the NPC Corporations would take sides or the Player Corporations, especially in 0.0 would occupy all their facilities.

*shrug*

In reality, events evolve from one thing to another, cause brings about effect, giving you a linear progression through time.

In a game - the developers create their game mechanics - and then develop a back story to explain them. Thus, the effect comes first - and then some thing is thrown together to "explain" it in the fantasy world of the game.

The situation in EVE makes a good game - but it would never happen in reality so it is difficult to come up with a nation in reality that closely resembled anything in EVE.


Intense Thinker
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.02.05 04:43:00 - [6]
 

The Caldari are Americans Razz

Thuranni
Eldjotnar
Posted - 2010.02.05 05:45:00 - [7]
 

The Caldari State is pretty much exactly how the rest of the world sees the United States of America.

Foodpimp
Gallente
Heaven's Harvesters
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
Posted - 2010.02.05 06:06:00 - [8]
 

Wow, it's been a while since a thread has taken this turn. Everything that follows is pretty much predictable at this point.

Marz Ghola
Minmatar
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2010.02.05 06:47:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Thuranni
The Caldari State is pretty much exactly how the rest of the world sees the United States of America.


Look at this guy speaking for the planet.Laughing

Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2010.02.05 07:57:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Culmen
Its called:
State Capitalism

Quote:
a society wherein the productive forces are controlled and directed by the state in a capitalist manner


Quote:
By that definition, a state capitalist country is one where the government controls the economy and essentially acts like a single giant corporation.


Mega corps anyone?



State capitalism is inverse caldari. State capitalism is socialist, where the government controls the industries; the caldari state is ultra capitalist, where the industries (megacorporations) control the government. My wikipedia-fu would suggest something more like a corporate republic or corporatocracy, although the latter topic is filled with some mild tinfoil about how the US is doooooooooooomed

Magnus Nordir
Caldari
Nordir Industries
Posted - 2010.02.05 11:00:00 - [11]
 

As Musollini said:

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."

But I don't know of any RL examples. Italy and Japan in WWII-era were on a good way to that state (Germany was more socialist), but both had governmental militaries and huge governments that were in no way controlled by the corporations. Think Ron Paul meets Ayn Rand, a system where you've got a government so small it basically cedes all power to the corporations. The system in Snow Crash (by Neal Stephenson) is probably a pretty close approximation of how it'd look if it were implemented in the USA.

VanNostrum
Posted - 2010.02.05 11:52:00 - [12]
 

State capitalism = communism

Caldari is opposite of state capitalism. Instead of state running the business, business is running the state. Big corporations have high influence on government politics, they basicly run the government. This...frighteningly reminds of an existing country in today's world.

Magnus Nordir
Caldari
Nordir Industries
Posted - 2010.02.05 11:59:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: VanNostrum
State capitalism = communism

Caldari is opposite of state capitalism. Instead of state running the business, business is running the state. Big corporations have high influence on government politics, they basicly run the government. This...frighteningly reminds of an existing country in today's world.


Well, you don't exactly see corporations claiming whole towns, using their own currency instead of the dollar, organising their own military and police forces etc, and the congress at least pretends to be a democratic entity and not a bunch of corporate agents.

But yeah, the difference is basically that the USA can't afford to admit it's a fascist state and not a democracy.

VanNostrum
Posted - 2010.02.05 12:06:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Magnus Nordir
Originally by: VanNostrum
State capitalism = communism

Caldari is opposite of state capitalism. Instead of state running the business, business is running the state. Big corporations have high influence on government politics, they basicly run the government. This...frighteningly reminds of an existing country in today's world.


Well, you don't exactly see corporations claiming whole towns, using their own currency instead of the dollar, organising their own military and police forces etc, and the congress at least pretends to be a democratic entity and not a bunch of corporate agents.

But yeah, the difference is basically that the USA can't afford to admit it's a fascist state and not a democracy.


They don't have to claim whole towns or countries, the government does it for them so they can spread their businesses local or abroad. And they don't have to have their own currencies, having a common currency is a good medium for trade between corporations. They don't have to have their own police or military force, instead they supply the state army with weapons (for a price) and in return get to decide where the government should bring peace and wealth (democracy) next. Weapons manufacturing corporations run the government. I'm talking about Caldari, ofc... Laughing

KPPA
Dead 2 Rights
Posted - 2010.02.05 12:19:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Magnus Nordir
Think Ron Paul meets Ayn Rand, a system where you've got a government so small it basically cedes all power to the corporations.


If this where to happen the government would not have the power to make laws that affect the market. What "power" would the gov be handing over? The corporations couldn't make laws and they couldn't initiate force. All power cedes back to the people and the decisions they make in the free market.

I'd also say that Italy and Japan in the WWII-era was much like caldari if I understand caldari correctly.

ceaon
Posted - 2010.02.05 12:39:00 - [16]
 

State capitalism china anyone ?

Yesh
Unjustified Ancients of MuMu
Posted - 2010.02.05 12:49:00 - [17]
 

I was once in a corp where every American was Caldari so I guess there is something in the caldari philosophy that attracts people from the US. Something about military might in the description of the character creation screen probably.

One of them said I chose Amarr as my race through word association of the Amarr 'EMPIRE' because I was from Britain and was angry about the fact that my ****ty little country no longer controls 1/4 of the earth. True story.

The REAL reason I chose Amarr is considerably worse. The T1 ammo is free Embarassed


Magnus Nordir
Caldari
Nordir Industries
Posted - 2010.02.05 13:03:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Yesh
I was once in a corp where every American was Caldari so I guess there is something in the caldari philosophy that attracts people from the US. Something about military might in the description of the character creation screen probably.

One of them said I chose Amarr as my race through word association of the Amarr 'EMPIRE' because I was from Britain and was angry about the fact that my ****ty little country no longer controls 1/4 of the earth. True story.

The REAL reason I chose Amarr is considerably worse. The T1 ammo is free Embarassed




Well, if we're playing American stereotypes,

-Caldari: America, **** yeah! laser-guided-democracy types. Don't misunderestimate these guys. Favourite quote: Whatever Glenn Beck spouted off on his last show, since their memory doesn't reach much further back than that.
-Amarr: Racists and religious nuts, notice all the southern accents on Amarr corp chats. Favourite quote: "Atheists can not be considered patriotic citizens" - Bush II. To arms in Dixie!
-Gallente: let-freedom-reign types, either hippies or American patriots who actually realise what our country was funded on and what it's turning into. Favourite quote: "Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither and will lose both." - Franklin.
-Minmatar: Junkyard wars/Scrapheap challenge fans.

Laughing

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.02.05 13:05:00 - [19]
 

On a related note, minmatar = somalia??

Magnus Nordir
Caldari
Nordir Industries
Posted - 2010.02.05 13:21:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
On a related note, minmatar = somalia??


Hisec - classroom in an American college
Lowsec - Somalia
Nullsec - international waters

ceaon
Posted - 2010.02.05 13:22:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
On a related note, minmatar = somalia??


y

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.05 13:28:00 - [22]
 

Chimerica

Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2010.02.05 14:52:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Chaos Incarnate


State capitalism is inverse caldari. State capitalism is socialist, where the government controls the industries; the caldari state is ultra capitalist, where the industries (megacorporations) control the government. My wikipedia-fu would suggest something more like a corporate republic or corporatocracy, although the latter topic is filled with some mild tinfoil about how the US is doooooooooooomed


The Caldari state is an example of state capitalism because the individual Megacorps take the role of the state.
So perhaps it would be more accurate to call the Caldari state a confederation of State Capitalistic States.

Notice how you only hear about the megacorps, you don't really hear about a Caldari start up or Caldari small business.
There are also references, that if you are fired from your megacorp, you wind up starving to death or going into crime, pretty much like a socialist state.

Furthermore from the back story -> caldari ->introduction

Quote:
All land and real estate is owned by a company which leases it to the citizens,


Note the word lease, not sell.

The thus as everything is owned by a megacorp, and the megacorp is the only entity working capitalistically, it is state capitalism.

Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2010.02.05 15:46:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Culmen

The Caldari state is an example of state capitalism because the individual Megacorps take the role of the state...



Nay, it's still backwards. The megacorporations are both, but they're corporations first, states second; they're corporate governments, not government corporations.

State capitalism is the government deciding to build a factory to make widgets; Caldari capitalism is a widget factory owner forming his own town for his workers and proclaiming himself mayor

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2010.02.05 17:43:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: yani dumyat
Niccolò Machiavelli


My opinion is that too many current politicians have not read or retained the knowledge that brilliant man put to paper.


Slade

Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2010.02.05 20:06:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 05/02/2010 20:06:38
Originally by: Intense Thinker
The Caldari are Americans Razz


The Gallente are the equivalent to the USA.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Gallente

Quote:
The Gallenteans. Self-righteous, meddling, pompous and tiresome, or virile liberalists and defenders of the free world. Love them or hate them, you simply can't ignore them. Everybody has an opinion on the Gallente Federation, it all depends from which side of the table you view them. For many, it is the Promised Land, where any dream can become a reality. The Gallenteans remain strong believers in free will and human rights, despite numerous setbacks in their long history.


Quote:
Few societies display such stark contrasts. Many of the wealthiest people in the world are Gallenteans, creating a constant demand for luxury goods. At the same time, the ranks of the poor number millions, because while the liberal market-driven economy and individual freedom may allow everybody the chance to advance to the top, they make it just as easy to plummet to the very bottom of the social ladder.

In the world of EVE, the Gallentean are the kings of entertainment, mass-producing everything from cheap ****-flicks to elaborate stage-shows for an ever-hungry public. They boast the most elaborate luxury space yachts, and the most glittering hotel reservoirs. Anything your mind or body could ever crave, the Gallenteans have plenty of it.

Joshu Sizu
Posted - 2010.02.05 21:14:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: VanNostrum
Instead of state running the business, business is running the state. Big corporations have high influence on government politics, they basicly run the government.


you mean like this??


Jago Kain
Amarr
Ramm's RDI
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2010.02.06 02:37:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Yesh
...The REAL reason I chose Amarr is considerably worse. The T1 ammo is free Embarassed




So; which part of Yorkshire are you from then?



Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Emminent Terraforming
O.G.-Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.06 14:46:00 - [29]
 

with the new ruling from our Supreme Court here in the US, we will become the Caldari. they have allowed uncapped donations by corps into the political system. so get ready for "Sol 3 Moon 1 General Electric Research Station"

Mal Kuni
Posted - 2010.02.06 21:07:00 - [30]
 

The way I see it:
Caldari = USA
Amarr = traditional European cultures
Minmatar = numerous tribal cultures united
Gallente = funny space French


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