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Helena Ianikova
Posted - 2010.08.01 09:59:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: Myxx
Ruins of enclave cohort 27

perimeter hangar
perimeter checkpoint
...

perimeter data sanctuary

..

Do I need to outline a pattern here?

They were in a war.

Who were they at war with? What was the reason they were at war?

Quote:
Entirely void of any life, this small pocket of deadspace echoes a story told all over the vast stretches of unknown territory – the demise of the ancient Sleeper race.

There is another meaning for the word demise.
2 : to pass by descent or bequest.

The Sleepers are gone; why then, do we see Sleeper drones?

Quote:
How else would you deliberately disconnect power supplies from a major area during a conflict that would result in a major gas leak into the area along with the debris?

Again, what is your proof of conflict occurring? I do happen to agree with you, but there is some information speaking to something else happening. It's kind of like the difference between an attack and a liberation, wouldn't you say?

Quote:
It was shot at. Look at it, then at other sleeper areas. And then mission areas in known space that have wrecks.

see the similarity?

Yes. There may also be other things that caused the damage, natural causes that are not apparent. However, let's assume that you are right; who were they in conflict with? Saying, "clearly they were at war" is something that, while it may be accurate, does not shed any new light on the situation.

Take a step back, look at the situation, and try to prove your hypothesis. Test it. For instance, how does that explain The Mirror? How could it explain The Mirror? Perhaps there is more than one mystery to solve, perhaps not, but simply giving up when one question is answered when others are still present does us no good.

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2010.08.01 15:43:00 - [182]
 

Another idea was suggested to me, privately -

Lets say there was a war - perhaps with the talocan or another entity. It doesnt matter much to this current idea until we get a better picture of who.

Lets say that one enclave is the military base, the other is the support unit for the military base.

hypothetically, what if the war was over, and they were deactivating their military areas - perhaps forcefully - out of guilt or something similar?

it could make sense with the rest put together. the sleepers there are eternal guardians to make sure nobody uses it again?

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.01 17:46:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: Helena Ianikova


We could use this information to form a very strong hypothesis, linking explaining the Sleepers and the W-space mystery. I will, however, save that for a later time. ;) I'm still working through the questions involved myself. I do think the "overall mystery" needs to be tackled in smaller pieces, in a "Euclidean" method if you will, and then those problems may indeed form a bigger picture when pieced together, "in a line".


I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.

Helena Ianikova
Posted - 2010.08.01 18:21:00 - [184]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari
I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.

You are free to have an opinion; I am free to not care.

Originally by: Myxx
Another idea was suggested to me, privately -

Lets say there was a war - perhaps with the talocan or another entity. It doesnt matter much to this current idea until we get a better picture of who.

Lets say that one enclave is the military base, the other is the support unit for the military base.

hypothetically, what if the war was over, and they were deactivating their military areas - perhaps forcefully - out of guilt or something similar?

it could make sense with the rest put together. the sleepers there are eternal guardians to make sure nobody uses it again?

It's an interesting idea. What evidence do you see to support or contradict it?

Helena Ianikova
Posted - 2010.08.01 19:04:00 - [185]
 

Since there's some doubt as to my "ability", let's look at a very small portion of the problem; Anoikis.

What is Anoikis? It is (apparently) the name for W-space. What is Anoikis in terms of definition? "The state of being without a home".

Let's take a simple proposition; Both the Talocan and Sleeper structures are dead. There is no life. Why is that?

Because they couldn't get back, most likely. Why would this lead to death? Limited resources, and lack of technology. The Sleeper drones survived, possibly thrived, but why? Because they were machines.

They were cut off from the rest of their society. A cell detached from the body. The reason for this death, The real "meaning" could be that simple; a place of death. How are Capsuleers uniquely suited to explore there? Because death isn't an obstacle. "Oh no, I ended up in a wormhole system with no probes, how do I get back?" "Simple, self destruct, end up in a clone vat somewhere."

Let's assume the following chain of events, leaving the minor details for further study:

1. The Talocan travel to Anoikis.
-Mode of transport is assumed to be a combination of acceleration gates.
-Was it intended to be a one way trip?
-Were they expecting to find ample resources?

2. The Sleepers travel to Anoikis.
-Mode of transport is assumed to be advanced Jump Drives.
-Did they run out of fuel for said drives?
-How long did they intend to stay there?

3. Capsuleers travel to Anoikis. Mode of transport is known to be wormholes.

For the above points, can we prove any of this? Can we disprove it?

Dropbear has suggested using induction to solve the problem, or at least to form a consensus. Which means not all the answers are there, but we can get a "general sense" of the picture. Solving the "big picture" is impossible at this point; there are too many potential answers to it. Finding the pieces, connecting them correctly, and getting a sense of the picture should at least point us in the right direction.

So, I would suggest the following lines of inquiry:
1. Talocan: Everything we know, what we can infer, and what questions are left.
2. Sleepers: Everything we know, what we can infer, and what questions are left.
3. Connection between the Talocan and the Sleepers: (Copy paste from above, really)
4. Wormholes: Is there a pattern, what would we need to figure the pattern out, or is it an emergent network with no real "predictable" pattern?

Once we know the current state to an acceptable level of certainty, move backwards; who was there first? Can we determine a timeline? Is there a deeper mystery, or is this simply a chain of unconnected coincidence, an "emergent" pattern?

Of course, we may never know the answers. The story of the Talocan and the Sleepers does, in a way, remind me of this story.

Kirian Kador
Amarr
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.08.01 19:23:00 - [186]
 

Oh there are patterns allright. The funny bit is that you don't need any info from this forum or chronicles or ingame fluff to figure it out.

Still one can always hope for more advanced patterns, thats why I keep up to date with this forum. In case you might actually be onto something here

Otocinclus
Minmatar
Project Nemesis
Moar Tears
Posted - 2010.08.01 19:49:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Helena Ianikova
stuff


The placement of the Isogen-5 stores is another important point we need to look into.

GammaGT
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.01 20:21:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Originally by: Helena Ianikova


We could use this information to form a very strong hypothesis, linking explaining the Sleepers and the W-space mystery. I will, however, save that for a later time. ;) I'm still working through the questions involved myself. I do think the "overall mystery" needs to be tackled in smaller pieces, in a "Euclidean" method if you will, and then those problems may indeed form a bigger picture when pieced together, "in a line".


I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.


I'm not so sure about that.

She seems to be probing in the right places. Keep up the good posts. Some of this is fascinating stuff that I only wish I could get my head round.

Asbalon Jade
Posted - 2010.08.02 06:22:00 - [189]
 

Ya know... in the end we are probably going to find out that the entire network is nothing but one huge telescope.

Going away from huge theories and genetics, computers, AI and so on. Sometimes I get the feeling the answer is much simpler than all that.

I mean, it kinda would make sense. One question early eve settlers had was: where are we?


The problem with finding out where you are is pinpointing things and finding patterns in the stars. We know how the patterns look like on earth, but lets say we are on a planet on the other side of the milky way. One way of finding out where you are is to look for the same patterns.
Problem here is, you are looking at them from a diffrent direction, making it almost all but impossible to convert.

Something more possible would be if you were to take what I will call "violent" stars/phenomenon. Now if you know there location, and maybe even be there, start looking at the stars and cartographing them. These violent locations were probably also seen by earth, since they have existed since "forever", and since they are so uniqe, might have been maped "properly" by earth astronemers.
With lots of computing power.. and time, you might be able to convert the star maps back as to how they would be seen from earth... thus again finding out where you are on earths globe... and thus also finding earth.


In that case the term "mirror" would make some sense hehe, since it would basicly be a radio telescope mirror.


But oh well... guess its just another theorie.




Ah and by the way... I remember something that once got me thinking of a war. Sorry to say I cant remember the site anymore. It was either a Mag or Rader site, and it was in a C5.
Pottsey, maybe you can remember? I only know it was you opening the cans back then.
Basicly the site had two pieces. One station was complete and intact, the second thing was a field of debris.
The debris was the intresting thing. Not only did the cans hint at it, but the "fluff" aswell. The debris had been the remains of something big, most likely a station aswell. Powercores, station batteries.. stuff like that floating around. Looking at the debris field really looked like something big exploded right there... or was destroyed.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.02 08:20:00 - [190]
 

Originally by: Skothen Chetokk


Any ideas what to do next ? Anyone with a 3d modelling program and knowledge of it ?

P.S: spreadsheet with all data divided into x,y,z; Region 17 spreadsheet




Do you have a data set that includes the points of origin?

There are lots of clues that these are some form of Cartesian co-ordinates. Each wormhole system has a location and a separate Loci based name. I wondering if we use can use the loci to link to another (the next) WH system. If that is the case we need both to produce a map.

If this is the case, we should be able to determine if it is a closed system, a (number of) loops, or a number of trees, which fan-in or fan-out.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.08.02 08:40:00 - [191]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 02/08/2010 09:06:18
Helena Ianikova said "Let's take a simple proposition; Both the Talocan and Sleeper structures are dead. There is no life. Why is that?"
Many of the sites are far from dead and very much active. As for people we do not know as we are limited by the game engine and cannot check if the habitation pods have people in or not. Some do not appear to have people but are active like "Although entirely functional and intact, the only signs of life within are electrical currents and the eerily constant transfers of data." others could have people we just don't know. For every dead site we find we find an alive site but have no way of checking insite the buildings. Is it right to say the Sleepers are dead? Are we really sure they dead and not inside the working sites?



Helena Ianikova said "-Did they run out of fuel for said drives?"
No they did not run out of fuel because they are using said drives to create spatial rifts (wormholes) and jump around even all the way to empire space. If the drives are 1 jump between empire and wormhole space they have over a 1000 light year range. That means the Sleeper empire could be alive out there anyway. There could be a massive 100 star system or bigger empire we have not found. 1000light year range jump drive is massive. What if they made 3 jumps, what if that's not even the longest range? A Sleepers empire could be hiding way out of our known range just like the Jove move away from there space.

EDIT: It apears there main source of energy is solar energy which they still have lots off. I believe whatever happened with the sleepers was all planed.



Helena Ianikova said "-Mode of transport is assumed to be a combination of acceleration gates."
We know they are nomads. So if they built acceleration gates leading to a new system all we are seeing are the old abandoned gates. With no reason to go back to old systems perhaps we are just seeing old unused leftovers. Not a dead race.


Asbalon Jade "Pottsey, maybe you can remember? I only know it was you opening the cans back then."
I don't remember the site name but do remember something like you described. I remember thinking at the time it looked like a reactor failed and blow up. But it could well have been a war.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.08.02 09:09:00 - [192]
 

What we really need to know and should be easy to find out but isn't as the game will not let us. Are the sleepers humans still inside the sites? Are the habitation pods active with alive humans inside? Are the habitation pods empty? Are the buildings full of dead body's? Are there zero body's at the sites?

These are major questions which answers a lot and should be easy to find out. Yet we have no way of knowing.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.02 09:39:00 - [193]
 

Originally by: Asbalon Jade
Ya know... in the end we are probably going to find out that the entire network is nothing but one huge telescope.

Going away from huge theories and genetics, computers, AI and so on. Sometimes I get the feeling the answer is much simpler than all that.

I mean, it kinda would make sense. One question early eve settlers had was: where are we?



I agree this is an important part of the mystery. If we are quite close in astronomical terms. Such that the habitants of New Eden could observe the stellar objects, known from Earth era observations. This would be a quite easy solved trigonometry question. It is apparently not the case, therefore only one these axioms must hold true.

a) The Jove (and ancients) have astronomical data from Earth era observations.

b) The Jove (and ancients) do not have Earth Era astronomical data to make a comparison.

c) A is true and the Jove (and ancients) have astronomical data from Earth era observations, but cannot make any matches. This implies that New Eden is a huge distance in astronomical terms. It also implies that the Eve Gate bridged huge expanse of the Universe,

Quote:
Humans arrived through a natural wormhole and, gazing up upon an alien sky they had never seen, were completely unable to determine where this new world was located.
EVE EXODUS.

If c) why would they be building this network or wormholes and observatories?

d) Wormholes cannot be directed (which we know to be untrue) or

e) Wormholes are a way to increase the size of the observatory to be able to see further.

Questions that would help to confirm or rebut these axioms. Is New Eden a spiral galaxy? If not then a) must be true. However if New Eden is a spiral it neither confirms or disproves a). Can Astronomical observations be made of Wormhole systems from New Eden? These would confirm their relative proximity as reported by the star map, I am not yet absolutely convinced of this (I think it is a result of pragmatism on the part part of the Devs.)

Helena Ianikova
Posted - 2010.08.02 09:41:00 - [194]
 

Pottsey: The thing is, your main assumption here is that the Sleepers are behind the wormholes. As you say, their primary source of power seems to be solar energy. Could this have been an adaptation based on necessity?

Also, we have seen Sleepers near Talocan sites with obvious (though currently broken) transport technology. Could the reason they are there simply be to attempt to find an alternate means of transportation?

Also, Inductive reasoning. Based on your analysis, Sleepers create wormholes. You also believe that Sleepers can cross the "huge" distance between New Eden and W-space. This very well may be true; but I don't see evidence of this. The SOE Epic Arc does show a Sleeper in known space; the problem is that it was brought there by the antagonist of the arc.

http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=01-06-09

now, back to inductive reasoning.

Quote:
Rather than approach everything with severe skepticism, Hume advocated a practical skepticism based on common sense, where the inevitability of induction is accepted.


Now, this is the problem; many of the theories presented are inductive, relying on the analysis to prove further analysis. If this has not gotten us anywhere so far, how will it get us further?

"Clearly there was a war"
"The Sleepers use the wormholes"

I could go on. These are unproven assumptions. If it was as simple as stating this, and moving on, we would have figured it out. Rather, we are going in circles, using assumptions to prove assumptions.

I do admit there are huge problems with the evidence presented. For instance, the lack of definitive answers for whether there are people in the structures. I do however think the answer has been provided, it is simply overlooked.

Most of the warp-in messages say something to the effect of "this shows a pattern regarding the demise of the Sleepers". Just because their technology is still working, does not mean they are still around, alive, or going to be alive at a later date. The Oruze Enclave could simply be a line of research into alternative power sources, and the Oruze Osobnyk could easily be the first stage in designing a power distribution network for the Sleeper drones. There are hints that they are recharged, rather than using internal power sources. This could indicate that they are limited to W-space, because their fuel source (the structures in W-space) do not extend to known space.

Also, if the Sleepers are using the wormholes, why aren't there invasions of K-space taking place? Again, the answer could be in the structures we are seeing, and their navigation network. They can't really get around if they have no frame of reference for their jump drives: after all, they use temporal cartesian coordinates. Wormholes would not allow them to use this system, as they would have no direct knowledge of the distance traveled. It's a non-linear transit.

Helena Ianikova
Posted - 2010.08.02 09:50:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari
e) Wormholes are a way to increase the size of the observatory to be able to see further.

Questions that would help to confirm or rebut these axioms. Is New Eden a spiral galaxy? If not then a) must be true. However if New Eden is a spiral it neither confirms or disproves a). Can Astronomical observations be made of Wormhole systems from New Eden? These would confirm their relative proximity as reported by the star map, I am not yet absolutely convinced of this (I think it is a result of pragmatism on the part part of the Devs.)


This is a pretty good line if inquiry. I like it.

I actually have a theory, and this is one more (possible) piece of the puzzle. Do you think there is any way to further expand on this idea? Is there any other information that could support this, for instance the Oruze Osobnyk, Oruze Construct and Oruze Enclave?

Kirian Kador
Amarr
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.08.02 10:11:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari
These would confirm their relative proximity as reported by the star map, I am not yet absolutely convinced of this (I think it is a result of pragmatism on the part part of the Devs.)



Well if it is pragmatism then it is very stange one considering that regions in w-space form up into spirals. You might almost think they have tried to leave us clues...

Helena Ianikova
Posted - 2010.08.02 10:23:00 - [197]
 

Originally by: Kirian Kador
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
These would confirm their relative proximity as reported by the star map, I am not yet absolutely convinced of this (I think it is a result of pragmatism on the part part of the Devs.)



Well if it is pragmatism then it is very stange one considering that regions in w-space form up into spirals. You might almost think they have tried to leave us clues...


J1340+6
J1259+0
J1226-0

These might be Julian Date references for the temporal coordinate analyses. The X, Y, and Z if you will. Though oddly enough, they are also very close to J-identifiers for fossil galaxies. One odd feature about fossil galaxies is that (according to physicists) would have a large amount of dark matter at their center.

Also, note that in Vitrauze, Burreau has "theories" she wants to prove. In Anoikis, it's stated that she's an astrophysicist.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.08.02 10:24:00 - [198]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 02/08/2010 10:27:49
Helena Ianikova " Pottsey: The thing is, your main assumption here is that the Sleepers are behind the wormholes."
I am not sure they are behind the current wormholes we use. But I have seen sleeper drones directly create spatial rift's which are effectively mini temp wormholes and travel via them. They appear to have mastered wormholes and can create small temp wormholes as needed. That would also explain how they got from empire to wormhole space before todays random wormhols opened.

I didn't recognise the name from that story and didn't realise they bought the drones to empire. But still once the drone escaped its created its own wormholes to travel by. The question is did it make it back to sleeper space? I see now that the drone didn't make it from Wspace to empire by itself like I thought.



Helena Ianikova said " Also, if the Sleepers are using the wormholes, why aren't there invasions of K-space taking place?"
That's something that is planed or being thought about according to Eon.


Helena Ianikova said "Most of the warp-in messages say something to the effect of "this shows a pattern regarding the demise of the Sleepers".
Not sure about most I only counted 3 at a quick glance. Are those pop's out of game facts given to us and so are 100% correct. Or are they assumption by people in game so might be wrong?

The pops don't really make any sense if you think about them. They are important but what are they? Where are they coming from?

" Data is eternal, immortal, immutable. Even when the engineers and intelligence behind its creation are gone, information, facts, and knowledge never die. Throughout this deadspace pocket, information lives and breathes, whispering hidden meanings through conduits and cables. Serene though it may be, there are forces at work – mechanical by nature, artificial in existence, enlightened by unnatural choice – that do not want information to be shared. They are unsleeping guardians protecting the universe’s slumbering god, knowledge."

For example who is saying that? Is that what's recorded in my ships database from previous in game visitors? Is it an out of game observer giving the info? Like a story teller mentioning something the characters in the story do not knew?

Perhaps Dropbear could clear this up. If it's like a story teller mentioning something the characters in the story do not knew then we have some facts like the Sleeper race is dead. If on the other hand its something like recording from older empire visitors it could well be wrong. If it is a recording in our database's from SoE or SOCT I don't trust it one bit.

At one point CCP where saying the sleeper are not dead just in habitation. Now some sites say they are dead. Which is it?

Helena Ianikova
Posted - 2010.08.02 10:45:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
At one point CCP where saying the sleeper are not dead just in habitation. Now some sites say they are dead. Which is it?

Is there really a necessity to distinguish between the two? Is it necessary to know or is it more static? If the Sleepers are just "sleeping", does it change anything? If they are dead, does it change anything?

My guess is that it's very simple; in the words of one of the voices in Anoikis:

"I believe she is dead."

I don't think at this point anyone really knows, but I don't think it is necessary to know in order to fulfill the requirements of this particular "test".

Kirian Kador
Amarr
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.08.02 11:02:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Pottsey

Helena Ianikova " Pottsey: The thing is, your main assumption here is that the Sleepers are behind the wormholes."



I am saying it is all CONCORD conspiracy Exclamation They are selling Quantum Flux Generators to 0.0 alliances so they must be behind wormholes

Veryez
Posted - 2010.08.02 11:57:00 - [201]
 

Originally by: Skothen Chetokk

Lots of very interesting stuff....



However I still believe they are times because of this:

Cartesian Temporal Coordinator
At first glance this coordinator appears to be a common enough piece of equipment, albeit an odd one to be found inside a drone. Designed to plot various points in time across a potentially infinite period, these devices are often used for scientific calculations.

For some unknown reason, this particular coordinator is configured to synchronize its processing speed in time with the distance travelled between two points. What purpose this serves remains a mystery, but the object’s basic functionality can be reconfigured.

Also:

Sleeper Data Library
Found amongst the debris of an incapacitated Sleeper drone, this large device appears to be a data archive of some sort. Although the information within remains a complete mystery, it is immediately apparent that it stretches far back into time.
Small data fragments preceding each file appear to function as time-stamps. If this is indeed what they are, then this Data Library could offer a snapshot of the universe stretching back millennia.

Finally:

Ancient Coordinates Database
Recovered from the wrecked hull of a Sleeper drone, this database stands as a testament to the lasting power of their ancient technology. Not only has it managed to survive for millennia completely intact, but it has come through the violence of its bearer’s destruction without even a scratch.
A brief analysis of the technology inside reveals that the database may in fact still be fully functional. The format and layout of the information within suggests it is a list of three-dimensional coordinates, charting a path to some distant place.

Thus the sleeper ships can chart their position based on the time they have traveled and compare it to the ancient database to find where they are (or are going). Lastly:

Neural Network Analyzer
Even millennium old, this bulky piece of equipment shows barely any sign of age. The explosion of the Sleeper drone ferrying it around doesn’t seem to have affected it in any way, either. This device was clearly built to last.
A cursory analysis of the software systems within reveals that it operates as some kind of monitoring device. The specialized design suggests it was used to process vast amounts of basic data and identify anomalies.

Thus the drones were built as to find something, the items they drop suggest they are looking for a path, perhaps that's why the mirror refers to a "Interstellar Surveillance Task Force."

Remerber the drones are equipped with a:

Jump Drive Control Nexus
...Even as a shadow of its former self, it can be combined with other components to form a fully functional warp drive. Being capable of this, even in such a bad state, strongly suggests that the device was capable of other types of more advanced interstellar travel.

Finally the drones have:
Emergent Combat Analyzer
Emergent Combat Intelligence
and
Sleeper Drone AI Nexus

The drones appear to have been created to evolve (or emerge) but with coded limitations. I mention this because of the message you get when you enter the Quarantine area:

“You have entered a quarantine area. This region is infected. Leave now.”
“Violation of the quarantine will result in –“
“ –missiles are armed, ready to – “

How much more revealing that would have been if the last 2 lines were complete, especially if the third line contained the starting word "Their". Implying that someone wasn't just warning us to stay away from the buildings there, but also from the drones too. The implication that something went wrong with the drones, very much like what happened to the rogue drones.

Helena Ianikova
Posted - 2010.08.02 12:24:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: Veryez
The drones appear to have been created to evolve (or emerge) but with coded limitations. I mention this because of the message you get when you enter the Quarantine area:

Imagine if the bars to your prison were all you had ever known.

Quote:
“You have entered a quarantine area. This region is infected. Leave now.”

Then one day, someone appears and unlocks the door.

Quote:
“Violation of the quarantine will result in –“

If they have the power to do this, then are they really the liberator?

Quote:
“ –missiles are armed, ready to – “

You never remembered who it was that closed you in.

Quote:
How much more revealing that would have been if the last 2 lines were complete, especially if the third line contained the starting word "Their". Implying that someone wasn't just warning us to stay away from the buildings there, but also from the drones too. The implication that something went wrong with the drones, very much like what happened to the rogue drones.

That would make for one heck of a ghost story, wouldn't it?

Now, someone mentioned somewhere that this was a new kind of storytelling...

Originally by: Slave Heavenbound02
Daddy, is that you? It's so cold here.

But I can hear everyone...

...and the events were happening in real time. He also mentioned the events in wormhole space (if I remember correctly) were happening at a much less dramatic pace.

Someone also mentioned convergent evolution.

Now, that is most likely the narrative theme showing. However, someone must know what's causing wormholes, and the properties of the network. As someone said, there are things that can attract wormholes out there, and they rely on energy states to do it. There is also one faction capable of using the network seemingly at will.

*whistles innocently*

Perhaps it's not a conspiracy, but perhaps the salient points just need to be analyzed on their own. That is perhaps where the picture will be revealed, the dots to connect.

Now, back to obscurity for a while.

Sonkut
Minmatar
The Motley Few
Posted - 2010.08.02 12:50:00 - [203]
 

Edited by: Sonkut on 02/08/2010 12:56:58
Originally by: Helena Ianikova
Originally by: Kirian Kador
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
These would confirm their relative proximity as reported by the star map, I am not yet absolutely convinced of this (I think it is a result of pragmatism on the part part of the Devs.)



Well if it is pragmatism then it is very stange one considering that regions in w-space form up into spirals. You might almost think they have tried to leave us clues...


J1340+6
J1259+0
J1226-0

These might be Julian Date references for the temporal coordinate analyses. The X, Y, and Z if you will. Though oddly enough, they are also very close to J-identifiers for fossil galaxies. One odd feature about fossil galaxies is that (according to physicists) would have a large amount of dark matter at their center.

Also, note that in Vitrauze, Burreau has "theories" she wants to prove. In Anoikis, it's stated that she's an astrophysicist.


Have you tried instead assuming that these codes are a point on a 3 dimensional graph, call it X Y and Z axis and call 0 a central position and your instead making a map of where each system is in relation to some central point like say, a quasar or a home system or any other major point of reference.

That reference could be anything seen from a considerable distance, it could be earth (I’ll say it before anyone else, I don’t think that’s likely) it could be the EVE gate, could be anything.

In addition to this I thought I would play around with Trinary for a moment, can’t be that different from Binary after all. In binary you use Hex to simplify numbers because writing down 0100 1001 X 16 or 32 takes too long. In Trinary (or ternary) you use SEPTEMVIGESIMAL - Link: . I managed to work this out before I found the Wikipedia page, to my own amusement my chart was correct.

Decimal numbers can be changed into letters using this method, but this also means we are limited to 3 letter words, unless we include the “J” at the start of locus sigs, which means we are stuck with 4 letter words beginning with “J”. Before you think of it, no I can’t spell “Jove” with any locus sigs, neither can I spell “JOKE” because “O” requires the first number after J to be 30 of which there are none.
For instance the system J100001 would be in septemvigesimal JA01. You could also turn it into Trinary itself which would be ((J)0201) 0101 0000 0001, but being there is no version of ASKii in trinary this again is useless. So I think you all will agree it’s a dead end but I thought I would post it in case I could save people time. But the fact that Wiki said septemvigesimal is used in puzzles did intrigue me.

I still like the idea that it’s coordinates though. Oh and I’m still supporting the war theory with the Talocan, as there are sleepers guarding the Talocan structures, also we don’t know how they fight, maybe Talocan fight by hurling Hardened crystal asteroids at enemy structures with overpowered tractor beams.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.02 13:11:00 - [204]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 02/08/2010 13:16:31
Originally by: Helena Ianikova
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
e) Wormholes are a way to increase the size of the observatory to be able to see further.

Questions that would help to confirm or rebut these axioms. Is New Eden a spiral galaxy? If not then a) must be true. However if New Eden is a spiral it neither confirms or disproves a). Can Astronomical observations be made of Wormhole systems from New Eden? These would confirm their relative proximity as reported by the star map, I am not yet absolutely convinced of this (I think it is a result of pragmatism on the part part of the Devs.)


This is a pretty good line if inquiry. I like it.

I actually have a theory, and this is one more (possible) piece of the puzzle. Do you think there is any way to further expand on this idea? Is there any other information that could support this, for instance the Oruze Osobnyk, Oruze Construct and Oruze Enclave?


Nothing directly, but some of the following might be applicable.

Originally by: Kirian Kador
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
These would confirm their relative proximity as reported by the star map, I am not yet absolutely convinced of this (I think it is a result of pragmatism on the part part of the Devs.)



Well if it is pragmatism then it is very stange one considering that regions in w-space form up into spirals. You might almost think they have tried to leave us clues...


To clarify. I was referring to the relative proximity of New Eden to the WH clusters as revealed by the Star Map, at around 1K light years. The same pragmatism could be applied to scale.

I agree their shape might be telling, and warrants further investigation. I just feel that placing them on the same star map could very easily be pragmatism. Coding an entirely new & parallel game universe map/environment would be complex task.

Quite a few clues have made me question this assumption.

The previously mentioned stellar cartography difficulties.

If the cluster is really as close as it appears why change technology, from Jump Drives & Gates to wormholes for interstellar travel.

The bulk of the WH systems are astronomically unusual, so why as these unusual systems apparently clustered together? This might be a result of 'Solar Engineering' changing them. Or perhaps there are not as proximate as they appear.

Investigated in another thread, the whole HyperEuclidean geometry/technology and it's links to 4 dimensional space & Hyper Euclidean Manifolds; Einstein Rosenberg bridges and Wormholes.

Wormhole systems have different spacial attributes, suggesting they posses different cosmological constants.

There are just to many unanswered questions to assume that the New Eden or W-space exists in the Milky Way, the same local galaxy cluster or even the same Universe.


Otocinclus
Minmatar
Project Nemesis
Moar Tears
Posted - 2010.08.02 20:52:00 - [205]
 

New pair of Sansha events the day after we theorized that the Sleepers were in a war? Could be a coincidence, however it could mean that we've just advanced the storyline slightly. lolconspiracies

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2010.08.03 02:54:00 - [206]
 

Originally by: Otocinclus
New pair of Sansha events the day after we theorized that the Sleepers were in a war? Could be a coincidence, however it could mean that we've just advanced the storyline slightly. lolconspiracies


explain for those that were'nt there, the connection, please.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2010.08.03 05:08:00 - [207]
 

Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 03/08/2010 05:35:58
Holy cow!

I gotten hold of some sleeper loot and salvage lately but the descriptions on these items says a lot.


So, could it be the Sansha simply did what players who are reverse engineering and inventing will eventually manage to do?

Perhaps there is a "purple drop" item eventually that has a BP?

Remember this game is in many ways all about production of items. It's nearly driven by it. Sansha might simple be ahead of us in what we can eventually discover.

By the way, has anyone attempted some energy attacks on these sleeper structures? Anyone tried to cap drain one, or perhaps cap-sustain one? Chances are they will behave like any LCO but it would be worth a try.

I would try it myself but there's that problem of getting my ship peeled like an onion.



Some shtuff:

Quote:
Originally misidentified by the analyzers as nothing more than scrap, these ancient thruster sections are only marginally more than that. Whether it was centuries of radiation or some violent explosion countless years ago, these thrusters have been damaged long ago and are now in a state of advanced erosion as a result. The modular design of the Sleeper propulsion systems appears to be similar to empire technology, with only slight deviations observable. Perhaps there are secrets to the Sleeper propulsion designs locked away inside these broken relics, but it would take a significant amount of luck for even a skilled researcher to successfully reverse engineer them and find out.




Julianus Soter
Gallente
Moira.
Posted - 2010.08.03 05:33:00 - [208]
 

Nothing particular happened, Myxx, the intel is available on the IGS, and in game if you want to talk to me ;)

Hmm. Do I know Helena somewhere? <_< >_>

She makes the most sense thus far, but suspicious alt is suspicious.
Nothing we say here will advance the storyline, just to be clear. It's all out of character. We would need to -act- on the information in-game by doing various visible things, or we would need to talk about it in-game, or in-character, using some kind of, oh, I dunno, conference.

Helena Ianikova
Posted - 2010.08.03 06:35:00 - [209]
 

Edited by: Helena Ianikova on 03/08/2010 06:39:27
Originally by: Julianus Soter
Hmm. Do I know Helena somewhere? <_< >_>

Would it alter your perceptions if you did?

Quote:
She makes the most sense thus far, but suspicious alt is suspicious.

Why am I suspicious, and who says I'm an alt? I just like this story.

Quote:
Nothing we say here will advance the storyline, just to be clear. It's all out of character. We would need to -act- on the information in-game by doing various visible things, or we would need to talk about it in-game, or in-character, using some kind of, oh, I dunno, conference.

Has anyone sent a note to ISD about the conference?

Also, you never did answer my request to do a presentation. Confused

EDIT: Also, someone might want to look into the idea of the Rhizome.

Deleuze and Guattari introduce A Thousand Plateaus by outlining the concept of the rhizome (quoted from A Thousand Plateus):
1 and 2: Principles of connection and heterogeneity: any point of a rhizome can be connected to anything other, and must be
3. Principle of multiplicity: only when the multiple is effectively treated as a substantive, "multiplicity" that it ceases to have any relation to the One
4. Principle of asignifying rupture: a rhizome may be broken, but it will start up again on one of its old lines, or on new lines
5 and 6: Principle of cartography and decalcomania: a rhizome is not amenable to any structural or generative model; it is a "map and not a tracing"

Also, Emergent Evolution.

Julianus Soter
Gallente
Moira.
Posted - 2010.08.03 07:19:00 - [210]
 

Sent a reply, helena, sorry if my initial reply was lacking, was busy at the time. ;)

As for the ISD, no, I've not sent them anything about it. Last time, I didn't either, and yet. . .

I'll toss something to the reporting feature when I get a spare second, heh. I should also get some sleep.


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