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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.28 20:10:00 - [61]
 

CCP Dropbear thanks for that post. Now I need to reread back and figure out which theory I said I didn't like but was plausible.
Well if I was wrong, I was wrong, time to go back and trace some steps. Without re reading the thing that sticks in my mind the most is the power source from the sun. I remember saying something like that was plausible but I didn't like it.

Kirian Kador
Amarr
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.07.28 20:15:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Kirian Kador on 28/07/2010 20:15:23


Well it makes sense. The race went to hibernation, but in order to support it they left solar energy storages/silos (oruze osobnyks) all over the place and sleeper drones to protect the infrastructure. Kinda plausible but a little bit boring

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2010.07.28 20:22:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
CCP Dropbear thanks for that post. Now I need to reread back and figure out which theory I said I didn't like but was plausible.
Well if I was wrong, I was wrong, time to go back and trace some steps. Without re reading the thing that sticks in my mind the most is the power source from the sun. I remember saying something like that was plausible but I didn't like it.

I'm curious what I got correctly as well. The points I recall asserting were:
- Sleepers could have used their mastery of stars to collapse Eve, or may hold the key to opening it.
- While our chars don't recognize "Oruze Osobnyk" the players behind them do, as a Slavic language.
- The further back we go, the more advanced the extinct races of Eve become.
- Those extinct races sought Terran artifacts, indicating a possible tech level above the Eden cluster's.
- Jovians might be using the four present-day races to extract some unknown quality of natural evolution, lost to them through millenia of genetic engineering.

Gouzu Kho
Posted - 2010.07.28 20:25:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Gouzu Kho on 28/07/2010 21:05:26
a google search gave this picture: oruze

Assuming for a moment that both semi-circles are completed this might look like a rather large cartesian coordinate system with the "station" at 0.0.0

It would only be usefull for positions in space though, and not time, as far as I can see. So perhaps I'm missing the ball completaly.

edit: dropbear's picture kills this idea as the central structure is clearly not in the middle of the semi-circle.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.28 20:31:00 - [65]
 

CCP Dropbear said " Auwnie Morohe said it. Pottsey said it too, but didn't like the theory because it's plausible yet boring (bluntly paraphrasing here)."
I believe Dropbear was referring to this post http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1314015&page=1#27
Where my fanboyism of the Yan Jung race overrode the common sense answer of the sun.

I really need to a find a good wormhole corp. Its killing me not being able to continue research ideas.

So certain sleeper sites are storage sites for solo power. But what is that power used for. Is it just to keep the basics running or something else. I believe the solo power is more than just to keep life support and the basics running.

CCP Dropbear

Posted - 2010.07.28 20:38:00 - [66]
 

Oruze Construct

What's it look like? What's one of the recurring theories about the meaning of Oruze? It's a simple thing, nothing too complex or cryptic as some theories (which are still awesome to read) suggest.

What's more directly supportable from in-game content suggests a simpler, more obvious answer, that Oruze means "Sun". Lots of analysis later, I think that the original point I've kept trying to make with "Oruze" is getting lost once again. The best way to figure this out is to look at what's out there in wormhole space - at things in EVE. A bit of induction, take notes of the interesting points, look for commonalities between places, items, and ideas, and then connect it into the most coherent picture you can. That's the process, and point of interactivity. Simple as that.

So, sorry Niki, I don't want to say "yes" and "no" to explicit ideas, suggestions, theories, etc. At this point in time it's about all of you guys working together, developing theories, and developing consensus about them. Hopefully at that point, there'll be opportunities for more meaningful vindications of those theories than forum posts. Get me? Smile

Wish you didn't delete your stuff too. You may not always get it right, but your theories are always fascinating in their depth of imagination. Anyways, back to lurking in the shadows.

Kirian Kador
Amarr
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.07.28 20:43:00 - [67]
 

I just linked it in corp chat and got this replies

sun
halo
barrel
Virgin Mary
Virgin Mary is a ****
.. oh wait that wasnt opinion of relevance Laughing

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.28 20:47:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 28/07/2010 21:18:09
Gouzu Kho said " a google search gave this picture: oruze"
They could be solar collectors or solar wings for movements. Imagine there is some sort of electronic net or as the sun rays go between the beams they interact with something.

At a long shot I would guess Sleepers and most likely the Talocan are Jove. When the 1st Jove Empire splintered these two factions did not fully or not at all reunite with the rest of the Jove when Miko Bour united the Jovian forming the 2nd empire. We have already seen Sleepers and Talocan share the same buildings (in that the same building are listed as Sleeper in one place and Talocan in another) and Talocan ships have Sleeper hulls. I am 92% convinced both the Sleepers and Talocan are the same race just different groups or from different timeframes. There are other indications of sleepers being Jove. Most likely as we are looking at Jove from between the years 17261 to 17562 so long ago we do not recognise the style as today's Jove.

Now the quarantine could be the Jovian Disease but I thought the Jovian Disease was the downfall of the 2nd Jove empire and the indications are the Sleepers and Taolcan are from when the 1st Jove empire splintered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKwDmvCiTEw in HD has some great positions of the site in question.

delonetiger
Posted - 2010.07.28 20:54:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: delonetiger on 28/07/2010 20:55:12
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Oruze Construct



It looks like a symbol, which makes me think of the chronicle "signs of faith"

In it I recognise the symbol of man, and what appears to be inverted symbol of god, both are joined though.

Could it be the 6th symbol mentioned at the end ?

Kirian Kador
Amarr
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.07.28 20:55:00 - [70]
 

on a more serious note it reminds of some sort of tool for navigation which is using position of sun, hence oruze.

Skothen Chetokk
Posted - 2010.07.28 20:58:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Skothen Chetokk on 28/07/2010 20:58:03
hm I thought it could be a power plant looking like this:
Oruze Construct

but, I see you all got more reasonable ideas Smile

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.28 20:58:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 28/07/2010 21:17:05
"Stasis People
For many Jovians their race is in the twilight of their greatness. Ever since the fall of the first empire the Jovian society have been in a slow, steady decline. Most blame the Jovian Disease for this and believe that the Jovians can only hope to turn the tide once a cure for the disease has been found. The Stasis People are Jovians that voluntarily go into cryo-stasis for decades or centuries, hoping that when they wake a bright and better world will greet them."


That sounds a lot like the Sleepers who are a race in habitation. Add that with the all the minor Jove reference's in buildings over different sites and the Oruze Construct which looks like that Jove Shuttle and it's a decent chance the Sleepers are the Stasis People.

Although I posted this before. I think it could be usefull to post again in this thread.

When did the second Jove Empire collapse?"
Short answer around 17261 to 17562 was when the 1st Jove empire collapse.
The 2nd Jove empire collapse somewhere between 500 and 3000 years ago.

As for why the first empire collapsed no one knows apart from its something the Elders did.

Now for the long answer. Before you start reading please note I based all my data from AD 23236 (YC 0) For those that are unaware the current date is YC 112 or 23348. So my numbers might be off by a few years. For example if the lore says the 2nd Jove empire was founded 500 years ago without a reference to the current date I assume the date that info was posted was AD 23236 (YC 0).

I cannot pinpoint times precisely but the Jove First Empire was founded a few centuries after the Eve gate shut. That puts the timeline around 8261 to 8562 depending on precisely what a few centuries means. I assume it means between 200 and 500. The empire lasted 9000 years. Putting us around 17261 to 17562 for when the 1st empire collapsed.

The 2nd empire was united more than 3000 years ago by Miko Bour." More then" usually in the content of years like that only means a little over 3000. But we don't know what year that was a reference from. Assuming it is from the year AD 23236 The 2nd Empire formed around 20216 possibly a few 100 years before. (out of interest the The Society of Conscious was also funded 3000 years ago right at the same time as the new empire)
EDIT2: As Istvaan Shogaatsu pointed out SOCT where funded 300 years ago not 3000. I miss read three centuries as 3000.

So we have a 2654 ish year gap with a possible 2nd dark age or timeframe of bad times for the Jove. The way the 2nd empire was united by one Jove is to me suggesting the Jove had splintered into groups since the 1st empire. Perhaps not all groups united. With backs up some peoples theory's of the Sleepers being Jove.

The 3rd Empire was funded half a millennium ago around 22736. We don't know how long the 2nd Jove empire lasted or how long the collapse was between and 2nd and 3rd empires. But logically the 2nd Jove empire collapsed somewhere between 500 and 3000 years ago as it cannot have collapsed before the 2nd empire was funded and it must have collapsed before the 3rd empire was funded. We do know the 2nd Jove empire was devastation of the Jovian Disease

For those interested "The Heaven constellation was the home of the First and Second Jovian Empires, both larger and grander than their current Third Empire."

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:03:00 - [73]
 

Dropbear - we had a pretty good idea that the Sleepers are relying on solar power. What I am curious about, is what else they used their mastery of the stars for.

Also, is there anything connecting Sleepers and SOCT? Both seem to employ that circles-and-rays visual style...

Richtor Mettle
Cryptic Solutions
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:07:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Oruze Construct

What's it look like?


Strange, but the first thing I thought of was an eye...but that doesn't work for the recurring theories about the meaning of Oruze from what I can see(no pun intended Cool). The other thing was when you gave the denim comment about words changing, the word that I extrapolated from Oruze was Auras. Don't know if that will spark any neurons in anyone, but I figured I'd throw those out there and see what people think.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:08:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 28/07/2010 21:14:49
EDITED In the correct quote

"Emergent system development is said to have been an early focal point in Jovian software design, where they hoped to create an atmosphere in which an advanced system could self-assemble its own consciousness and thus “emerge” as a sentient being. What became of these projects remains unknown, although the Jovians appear to have abandoned these pursuits many millennia ago in favor of something more tangible and containable."."

If the Sleepers /Stasis people are from the First Jove empire they would be from many millennia ago. Then perhaps when the 1st Jove empire splintered the Jove sleeper group kept the emergent research. Or perhaps the Sleeper drones are the abandoned pursuits from many millennia ago.

I would theorise that the Sleeper network is meant to be a massive computer network AI that is meant to self-assemble its own consciousness via an Emergent system design. All powered by the sun giving it as much time as it needs to developed. With the long team goals of finding a cure and awakening the stasis people it creators in a manner of speaking. Each sleeper site is sort of a node and we see massive amounts of data being sent from site to site just like a massive network AI. Drones are sort of like the cells and antibodies keeping the body (network) working.

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:13:00 - [76]
 

Quote:
(out of interest the The Society of Conscious was also funded 3000 years ago right at the same time as the new empire)

300, not 3,000

Sekhmet Neteret
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:14:00 - [77]
 

I do wonder why a large number of the sleeper systems appear to be obviously binaries, yet no Stargates or Stargate like structures exist, they definitely had the capabilities to make them, and their systems should have the correct natural gravity waves to set up a connection, could the ring shaped structures possibly be some form of transportation device? the wormholes appearing in random locations in a system just does not seem like an efficient design plan, maybe their structures were supposed to create a wormhole inside, and the system glitched when the large batch of isogen-5 was ignited, and possibly set off their system early, or somehow interfered with the normal operational mode of the system. If it did disrupt the normal operational node, it would explain the static links in the Wormhole systems, certain systems had complexes desinged to link to other areas, and now they are randomly cycling through the systems that they are configured to link to, where high, low and null sec links were observational links to keep watch on the systems in New Eden which are still using the Stargate network

just a few thoughts, more may come later

Gouzu Kho
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:32:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 28/07/2010 21:14:49
..Or perhaps the Sleeper drones are the abandoned pursuits from many millennia ago.

I would theorise that the Sleeper network is meant to be a massive computer network AI that is meant to self-assemble its own consciousness via an Emergent system design. All powered by the sun giving it as much time as it needs to developed. With the long team goals of finding a cure and awakening the stasis people it creators in a manner of speaking. Each sleeper site is sort of a node and we see massive amounts of data being sent from site to site just like a massive network AI. Drones are sort of like the cells and antibodies keeping the body (network) working.


Why should it be about finding a cure ? I think we can assume that the jovian's research into emergent systems dated back from before their fall. And with the picture looking like a symbol (as my esteemed alt, sorry about that) pointed out. They could simply have been looking for the consciousness of the universe ai, god.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:36:00 - [79]
 


It looks a little like a sun dial.

Kirian Kador
Amarr
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:38:00 - [80]
 

or it could be simple steering wheel used to by captain to navigate ship...

The reason why I favour navigation theory is because I live in a wormhole space exclusively for almost a year. And it is all about navigating network. Sleeper drones which appear to travel between w-space systems freely must have their own means to navigate it somehow

Ivvor
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:41:00 - [81]
 

There are a number of things the construct reminds me of: A sunrise, an eye, an eclipse or a navigation device. The last one interests me because of the piece that's missing from the main circular section.

Wormhole locus signatures (which appear to be essentially time codes) map over 14 hours of a 24 period with the first 10 hours missing. If the main circle of the construct represented a 24 hour period then the missing section would be about 10 hours. This could be a coincidence, but who can say.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:46:00 - [82]
 

Gouzu Kho said "Why should it be about finding a cure ?"
It doesn't have to be about a cure and you could well be right. But I assume the Sleepers are the Jove Stasis People. The Jove Stasis people hope to wake up in a bright better world free of the Jovian Disease. Assuming the sleepers are the Stasis People it makes more sense to me if the Sleepers created the Emergent system design to form its own consciousness to find them a cure then the consciousness of the universe.

I assume this Sleeper network was created after the 1st Jove empire or near its end. When the 2nd Jove Empire collapsed the Jove had to abandon the network as they no longer had the numbers or ability to maintain the network. Perhaps not even the resource's or technology anymore due to lost tech.

The Sleeper network is a massive project they were forced to abandon in my mind.

Kirian Kador
Amarr
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:51:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Kirian Kador on 28/07/2010 21:51:26
Originally by: Ivvor
There are a number of things the construct reminds me of: A sunrise, an eye, an eclipse or a navigation device. The last one interests me because of the piece that's missing from the main circular section.

Wormhole locus signatures (which appear to be essentially time codes) map over 14 hours of a 24 period with the first 10 hours missing. If the main circle of the construct represented a 24 hour period then the missing section would be about 10 hours. This could be a coincidence, but who can say.



curious... I think you are absolutely right and it is exciting. Since this is the first piece of a puzzle which could relate to missing "hours" in locus signature format.

If the purpose of construct is navigation of w-space the missing part is missing because there is no systems to navigate to.

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:53:00 - [84]
 

I said it. What where when why how?


Gouzu Kho
Posted - 2010.07.28 22:01:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
... But I assume the Sleepers are the Jove Stasis People. The Jove Stasis people hope to wake up in a bright better world free of the Jovian Disease.


Indeed, I was looking purely at the possible symbolic meaning of the architecture. But there are many other sleeper sites that point to research into many other fields like genetics and the eve gate.

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2010.07.28 22:16:00 - [86]
 

I always assumed the Oruze construct was the Oruze Osobnyk under construction.Cool

Nikilaiki : Dont leave. I think you are one of the few people with enough knowledge of EVE to figure this out. Just try and step back and regard all the clues as a whole. Its statistical not sudoku if that makes any sense at all.

As far as Oruze goes. Im back at square one.Cool


Haldane IV
Einstein's Dreams
Posted - 2010.07.28 22:17:00 - [87]
 

The Oruze construct picture looks just like the Amarr golden sceptre (shown in the Khumark chronicle), which is a depiction of a flaring Sun.

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2010.07.28 22:47:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Haldane IV
The Oruze construct picture looks just like the Amarr golden sceptre (shown in the Khumark chronicle), which is a depiction of a flaring Sun.

That's an interesting point. On one side, it could be pure coincidence...

On the other, it could be a subtle hint of early Jovian (Sleeper?) influence on the Amarr. Suns and eclipses... circles and rays.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.28 22:54:00 - [89]
 

Istvaan Shogaatsu said " On the other, it could be a subtle hint of early Jovian (Sleeper?) influence on the Amarr. Suns and eclipses... circles and rays."
Didn't someone post someplace that early Amaar scriptures sound like an advance space faring race landed on the planet. The way the scriptures sounded was how a none space race would describe a spaceship landing and taking off.
Another thing of interest mentioned in the Jove channel was the Zephyr is solar powered or solar wind powered. The sleepers seem to have a high focus on the sun and they do not shoot the Zephrye.

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2010.07.28 23:28:00 - [90]
 

Maybe the picture is upside down. Thukkers, Angels perhaps?


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