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Cave Lord
Posted - 2011.01.24 08:18:00 - [511]
 

Has anyone done an in-depth compilation of all the "info tidbits" we get from structure descriptions so we can read them all at once and draw conclusions? Also, has anyone started compiling the shape and layout of these structures so that we can draw correlations between related objects?
-----------
For example, a bunch of these types of things:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/Fishscene/eveenigmaagent0/WHJ155739/20110123210936.jpg

Apotheosis has 7 "spikes" intersecting the outer ring and the sleeper complex has 7 "hubs" on it. Apotheosis is from Jove... some kind of link between Jove and Sleepers? Is there anything like this for Talocan?
-----------
...things like this all compiled into one location.


I know a lot of this information is out there on different sites, but I haven't found anything that really ties it all together. If there isn't anything, maybe we can start compiling it all in a wiki?

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2011.01.24 11:25:00 - [512]
 

Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
not seeing the tree from the forest

There is just one tree dude.:)

I just thought of another little association one could think of if we put certain fruits, one should not eat, and certain consequences together. I guess we should be looking for the seven dwarfs now.

OMG I just loled. CCP you are just too funny. Someone tell me what is hanging on the wall?Very Happy

\o/ I solved the Mystery

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.01.24 11:54:00 - [513]
 

Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 24/01/2011 11:57:33
Originally by: Auwnie Morohe
Someone tell me what is hanging on the wall?


Ten green bottles?

Or maybe...seven dwarves...Snow White...oh, I see what you did there Laughing

I wonder which of us is the fairest of them all...

Walextheone
The Red Circle Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.24 13:04:00 - [514]
 

Our corp just came across a C3 wormhole with 13 outgoing highsec exits. We have been open and closing hundredes of wormholes and never seen anything like it.

Earlier we thought the max should be seven (incoming + outgoing) wormholes.
Wonder if it's just a bug or some sort of "story" wormhole.

Have anyone came across anything like it?

Llyandrian
Amarr
Livestock Science Exchange
Posted - 2011.01.24 13:29:00 - [515]
 


Regarding Yulia, Yuliya is the Russian form of Julia, which has the meaning Youngest Child of Jove.


Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.01.24 18:09:00 - [516]
 

Originally by: Walextheone
Our corp just came across a C3 wormhole with 13 outgoing highsec exits. We have been open and closing hundredes of wormholes and never seen anything like it.

Earlier we thought the max should be seven (incoming + outgoing) wormholes.
Wonder if it's just a bug or some sort of "story" wormhole.

Have anyone came across anything like it?


The max should actually be a lot less than that.

What's the j-sig?

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.24 19:51:00 - [517]
 

Originally by: Auwnie Morohe
Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
not seeing the tree from the forest

There is just one tree dude.:)

I just thought of another little association one could think of if we put certain fruits, one should not eat, and certain consequences together. I guess we should be looking for the seven dwarfs now.

OMG I just loled. CCP you are just too funny. Someone tell me what is hanging on the wall?Very Happy

\o/ I solved the Mystery


Well if you eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge and therefore know of good and evil you are; if male, doomed to suffer the hardship of eternal labour/work; if female, doomed to suffer the pain of child birth.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.24 20:59:00 - [518]
 

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/Fishscene/eveenigmaagent0/WHJ155739/20110123210936.jpg

Quite a lot of this seems me to be allegory, a synthesis of things from multiple sources.

The Seven Daughter of Eve.
The biblical seven heavens.
The seven bodies of classical astrology.

I agree that recent hints and clues seem to be have taken a biblical influence, for example Kuvakei is reminiscent of the exodus and the flight of the chosen people to the promised land

I previously assumed that Kuvakei was based on Friedrich Nietzsche philosophical satire, but now I'm not sure, but perhaps that is another allegory.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.01.25 16:22:00 - [519]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 25/01/2011 16:43:48

hmm... interesting browsing through the last few pages of this thread.

When I joined some RP efforts to fight the first Incursions in Spring last year there seemed to be a relatively broad consensus that sleepers are probably an "upload society" - that they did upload themselves into computer systems to escape from some mysterious plague/disease and that the sleeper drones exist to guard the storage facilities in which the sleepers' digital images/personalities are contained.

(with no ideas on whether the sleepers are still "alive" or if their digital images have become corrupted/failed over time)

This also seemed to match nicely with Jamyl becoming corrupted during the transfer to her clone as the manipulation of a digital persona might be technology relevant to a society that has gone "digital".

And it gave some room for speculation rgd Sansha's excursion to Taisy and possible connection between a disease like that contained at the Kyonoke Pit and the one that may have prompted sleepers to sever links between their solar systems and abandon biological life.
(Taisy isn't that far from the Okkelen constellation that it is possible to rule out this idea just based on but w-space is a long way from k-space - if the Talocan carried the disease from k-space into w-space this argument does not apply and if the Talocan inhabited a constellation in The Forge they might very well have been in a close system in Lonetrek, too)

As I am a little surprised to find no mention of this "upload" hypothesis in the last few pages of this thread I wondered if this speculation has been made implausible by some new findings or if it just happens to be out of fashion at the moment?


edit: glancing through recent chronicles Jita 4-4 basically shoves this idea right into our face... and that's several months after it was discussed in the RP community.

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2011.01.25 17:18:00 - [520]
 

For me the upload part is almost fact if only because there is a COSMOS mission text that actually says it.

I think at this point the entire "Sleeper" story is available in game. The upload is part of it. The reason why I think is not to flee something but rather a believe.

Wyke Mossari:
I am not a big fan allegory. Borrowing fiction, in the widest sense of both words, on the other hand is a long standing tradition if only because that is how the stories survived. For instance that tree with the grapes is much older than the bible and the consequences of the fruit quite different. Also the eating of the seeds of a fruit could, when you are the wrong place, get you stuck forever.

More coincidences, when I just recently bought second hand book about art and stuff in china in one of the first lines was a reference to Metamorphoses by Roman author Ovid. It went something like this. "How in the mythical past there was a golden age followed by a silver age which itself was followed by hard times which the poet lived himself".Cool

The Seven Daughters of Eve. These refer to haplo groups if I am correct of which some seem to be represented in the mirror.




Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.26 13:42:00 - [521]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 26/01/2011 13:44:16
Originally by: Auwnie Morohe


The Seven Daughters of Eve. These refer to haplo groups if I am correct of which some seem to be represented in the mirror.




Yes, I know about them, I implying those seven apparent habitation modules might be housing for those seven types.

I've also been wondering if there may be a connection with the Seven tribes of the Minmatar.

However at the back of my mind is the impression that that structure looks incomplete, and others sites look like less complete instances of the same thing.

Cave Lord
Posted - 2011.01.27 05:52:00 - [522]
 

Regarding the Medical Enclave: Directory...

(readout)
1.0 Emergency
2.0-2.8 Triage
2.9 Stasis
3.0 Quarantine Sector A
4.0 Quarantine Sector B
5.0-9.2 Quarantine Sector C
9.3 Quarantine Sector X
______________________________

If I had a guess, I'd say the medical facility was used during the time people were converted to a digital form. The reason probably to escape a biological disease. Sector A being for not-so-bad cases, B for worse, C for really bad, and X for "too-far-gone to be converted".

A friend of mine as also mentioned that a-c + x are the same ratings used for deadspace modules (Pithi A-type, etc)... with x generally being equiv. to officer mods.

Also, I don't recall this being mentioned before, but in Pottsey's original post, it says at the end that the Ship's AI needs more computing power to get more data... has anyone tried to visit the mirror sites with a larger ship? Perhaps one of these ships such as the echelon? (codebreaker ship)

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2011.01.27 06:15:00 - [523]
 

Originally by: Cave Lord
Also, I don't recall this being mentioned before, but in Pottsey's original post, it says at the end that the Ship's AI needs more computing power to get more data... has anyone tried to visit the mirror sites with a larger ship? Perhaps one of these ships such as the echelon? (codebreaker ship)

I think that was just RP. Would be good to get confirmation either way. It'd be interesting if there was some "fly ship X to location Y in wormhole Z" puzzle to Eve.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2011.01.27 07:28:00 - [524]
 

The AI stuff in the first few posts was just roleplay.

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2011.01.27 12:46:00 - [525]
 

Quote:
It'd be interesting if there was some "fly ship X to location Y in wormhole Z" puzzle to Eve.

There is.

Quote:
A friend of mine as also mentioned that a-c + x are the same ratings used for deadspace modules (Pithi A-type, etc)... with x generally being equiv. to officer mods.

I blame my incredibly high IQ for the fact I am too stupid to have spotted this congruency.

Anyone else notice the over representation on COSMOS constellations in the first wave on new incursions.

khazak mokl
Amarr
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2011.01.28 10:43:00 - [526]
 

Has anyone run one of the C4 intergrated terminus now that there back in game and had a look at the terminus stream?
If I remember it was broken and got taken out of the game but there was a pop up on warp in that hinted info being present in the site and also a structure that when shot said something along the lines of " what ever data was present is now scattered to the four winds."

May be it may now provide further clues.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.28 13:43:00 - [527]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 28/01/2011 14:16:02
Originally by: Cave Lord

A friend of mine as also mentioned that a-c + x are the same ratings used for deadspace modules (Pithi A-type, etc)... with x generally being equiv. to officer mods.


Interesting, not sure what to make of that.

There are also N-Type, Type-D & Type-E modules which are all also haplogroups.

-- edit --

A, B, C, D & X are the haplogroups of Haplogroups of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas isolated there by the flooding of the bering land bridge. Their common ancestor is group N.


Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.01.29 00:58:00 - [528]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari

I've also been wondering if there may be a connection with the Seven tribes of the Minmatar.


Ever wondered about who the Jovians like?

Minmatar 3.00
SOE 2.00
Caldari 1.75
Interbus 1.25
Mordu 0.75
Thukker tribe 0.25

Gallente -0.25
Amarr -0.5
Ammatar -0.5
Khanid -1.00
Syndicate -1.00

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
When it comes to the Sleepers, each stroke on the canvas was meant to be there and each part serves a purpose, whether little or...big.

The "or big" part there keeps making me think there's something staring us in the face that we're all missing.

I think the hardest part is going to be identifying which clues are, in fact, nothing whatsoever to do with the sleepers and are just there as filler with unintended references.

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2011.01.29 01:36:00 - [529]
 

Im going to be annoying again and not say anything. Mainly because I dont know what it exactly means and just so I can say afterwards that I figured that out way before anyone else.

Quote:
The "or big" part there keeps making me think there's something staring us in the face that we're all missing.

This is so to the point it makes me think you have seen it too.

Cave Lord
Posted - 2011.01.29 05:35:00 - [530]
 

Originally by: khazak mokl
Has anyone run one of the C4 intergrated terminus now that there back in game and had a look at the terminus stream?
If I remember it was broken and got taken out of the game but there was a pop up on warp in that hinted info being present in the site and also a structure that when shot said something along the lines of " what ever data was present is now scattered to the four winds."

May be it may now provide further clues.


I'm in a C4 right now. This is a picture of the Integrated Terminus Site. Anything I should check out? I'm flying a Zephyr and I've floated around some of the structures, but I haven't found anything of interest yet. Maybe you guys will spot something I should sit next to.

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.01.29 08:03:00 - [531]
 

Originally by: Cave Lord
I'm in a C4 right now. This is a picture of the Integrated Terminus Site. Anything I should check out? I'm flying a Zephyr and I've floated around some of the structures, but I haven't found anything of interest yet. Maybe you guys will spot something I should sit next to.


That Polestar has gotten my attention more than once. It's despawned on some of the C4s we've been to, if we warp all ships off of grid before we start the anomaly. Makes me wonder if it isn't extra important, like the cans in Radar/Mag sites.

Deceiver's Voice
Posted - 2011.01.29 10:50:00 - [532]
 

Edited by: Deceiver''s Voice on 29/01/2011 10:50:26
Thank you for the image, Cave Lord (awesome name btw).

Quote:
Sleeper Archive Terminal

This structure appears to be a modified engineering station, although it contains more instruments for information-gathering than commonly seen in stations of its ilk. Currently inactive, the terminal sports a great number of antechambers and libraries both digital and physical, as well as innumerable laboratories of all shapes and sizes.


Quote:
Archive Enclave: Directory

1.1-3.3 Digital Backup Library
3.4-3.5 Terran Artifacts
4.1 Theories of the EVE Gate
5.1 Talocan Technology
6.1-6.9 Emergent Ideologies


It's obvious the Sleepers knew about the Talocan by the contents of the Archive Enclave in The Mirror. Now, we have an "Archive Terminal". Near Talocan structures. The terminal is built (or modified) for information gathering.

There's only three things you can really attempt:
-Analyze
-Hack
-Blow it up

Seeing as how one of those destroys it's utility (you don't want to blow it up; seriously), that leaves analyzing and hacking. If neither of these work, then that leaves two possibilities:

A. You don't have the proper tools.
B. It's not functional.

From the description of the Terminal:
Quote:
Currently inactive...


Pretty much proves possibility two. So, if it's inactive, it's only real utility is more of a sign post; "Sleepers were here". It is a lead to the mystery, a link between a Talocan site and the Archive in The Mirror. Still, it's a dead end, isn't it?

Well, the Talocan Static Gate descriptions do mention this... well, not exactly, but they do state the Talocan were masters of astronautical engineering. It kind of makes me wonder, did the Talocan have warp drives? Did they even need them?Wink

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2011.01.29 11:05:00 - [533]
 

Originally by: Cave Lord
I'm in a C4 right now. This is a picture of the Integrated Terminus Site. Anything I should check out? I'm flying a Zephyr and I've floated around some of the structures, but I haven't found anything of interest yet. Maybe you guys will spot something I should sit next to.

I havent been there yet but seeing this picture underlines there is a bucket load of clues at those sites and that is where we need to look more.

Stuff that I noticed at first glance:
The polestar is on its side
Its got 6 pointy things, Sleepers like 8 sides
The sites info windows picture, the relic, is a Talocan reactor spire
Star-crossed lovers. Interesting literary reference Layla_and_Majnun
Archive terminal underlining physical and digital


khazak mokl
Amarr
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2011.01.29 11:53:00 - [534]
 

When you blow up the sleeper terminal structure you used to get this message:-
“With the terminal’s destruction, knowledge is scattered, data strewn in thousand of directions. There are no answers here; only debris remains. Secrets have been lost to the void, perhaps containing among them some key to salvation from this bleak existence.”

There was also a object called a terminus stream and the item data dump lists it as follows:-


The Terminus Stream
The material being ejected from this wormhole consists of hydrogen, oxygen, silicon, iron, and other materials usually only found in those states and frequency on terrestrial planets.

There is also reference to one spawning in empire:-

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1458549

Sounds like it has a beacon so you can warp to it(maybe like that shuttle with the humaniod body on board that orbits a star sumwhere)

Quite a few bread crumbs to follow for those not doing other stuff

YARRRR!!

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.29 12:29:00 - [535]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 29/01/2011 13:46:14

Originally by: Deceiver's Voice
If neither of these work, then that leaves two possibilities:

A. You don't have the proper tools.
B. It's not functional.




Or Skills! Talocan and/or Sleeper Technology skills.

--edit--

Regarding Polestar, does it point towards anything, a planet perhaps?

Earth's Polestar is Polaris, but not all planets in Sol have the same Polestar (1), because not all planets have the same axial tilt.

Polaris can be used for navigation; as well giving you a good indication of North, it can also provide a reasonable approximation of latitude.

That raises a question in my mind, if you are travelling somewhere and need a beacon to provide a navigational reference point, why not use the star you left? Stars luminosity and spectrum make them quite easy to identify uniquely.

The only reason I can think of for needing some type of beacon is that for some reason the light from the star is not usable, which raises the question, why is it not be usable?

It might not be visible due to distant (to faint).

It might not have the same spectrum because of time, if you travelled a vast distance the light from the star might end up very old. Travel far enough and there might be no light because it would pre-date the birth of the star.

Light is influenced by gravity, i.e. curved space, therefore Gravitation lensing would make it increasingly inaccurate reference point as distance increases.

Star light wouldn't be visible, when travel between universes in a multiverse, a previously suggested.

Quantum entanglement used in FTL communications does not provide the direction information, necessary to function as a beacon.

The conclusion must be that we are talking about being used over vast distance where stars are no useful as beacons. This therefore means these beacons are designed to overcome the limitations of light. Their beam needs to travel faster than c (speed of light) and have to be massless therefoe unaffected by gravitational lensing.

Tachyons?

This has certain implications & consequences for the physics of Eve, because Tachyons are theoretically impossible to exist in our RL universe.

If they exist in Even, this is quite strong evidence for the multiverse theory.

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2011.01.29 16:03:00 - [536]
 

Originally by: Deceiver's Voice
There's only three things you can really attempt:
-Analyze
-Hack
-Blow it up

Seeing as how one of those destroys it's utility (you don't want to blow it up; seriously), that leaves analyzing and hacking.


Has anyone actually tried this, though?

Cave Lord
Posted - 2011.01.29 20:41:00 - [537]
 

Edited by: Cave Lord on 29/01/2011 20:51:28
Edited by: Cave Lord on 29/01/2011 20:42:58
edit I don't have a hacking/salvaging ship with me. Although I'd be interested to know if the Echelon can visit these sites without being attacked. I'd also be interested to know if an Apotheosis can visit these sites safely as well.

Original Post:
I'll try to see if the the "polestar" is acting as a polestar for a planet. The description says it has been jettisoned many times as a necessary structure for a migrant culture. I think we're on to something here.
- Being jettisoned implies it is part of a larger structure, such as a space ship.
- It is a self-sufficient structure and can move on it's own, although how much is not known.
- It has 2 gates that do not have dust clouds around them.
- The site with the polestars has observation domes. What to make of them I do not know yet.

As far as stars and navigation goes... does
- this
- this
or
- this
factor into anything? If I recall correctly, this happened shortly before WH's were introduced to EVE. So far, I have heard no explanation for this.

It seems like the Talocan were quite migratory- for reasons I do not know yet. They also have a "static gate" - a lot of them have dust and clouds around them, as if they had a major malfunction. Pic Food for thought: Maybe the Sleepers tried activating the gates?

Further Questions:
- Where did the Talocan, a migratory culture go?
- Why are most of their structures empty?
- Why would they have cultural exchange silo's?
- what is a static gate?
- Why do many of the gates have singularities and dust clouds directly on the gate itself?
- Why are there sleeper drones at Talocan sites? Are they protecting something?

Lancashirian
Posted - 2011.01.29 20:59:00 - [538]
 

I just thought of something: has anyone tried bringing a "Talocan Ignition Device" to a Polestar? This is cosmos salvage, which is in k-space. I know that is used for building storyline devices, but why couldn't it be used for activating another site in w-space?

Also: the fact that a sleeper site lists Talocan technology as something they were studying kind of seems to me that they MAY HAVE come along after the Talocans.

Lancashirian
Posted - 2011.01.29 22:38:00 - [539]
 

I think that, based on the k-space sleeper salvage, it should pretty much be a fact that the sleepers no longer had human bodies for the most part. For example, the "sleeper reintegration control." This basically says that they digitized themselves, but were able to put themselves back into human bodies.

Deceiver's Voice
Posted - 2011.01.30 01:41:00 - [540]
 

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Originally by: Deceiver's Voice
There's only three things you can really attempt:
-Analyze
-Hack
-Blow it up

Seeing as how one of those destroys it's utility (you don't want to blow it up; seriously), that leaves analyzing and hacking.


Has anyone actually tried this, though?

If I recall correctly, someone has. Analyzers and Codebreakers didn't work, and then the individual blew it up, with a pop up saying that any possibility of gaining information had been lost. I could be mistaken however.


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