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Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.09.01 18:38:00 - [331]
 

Originally by: Karak Terrel
Originally by: ThaMa Gebir
Another question, have the names of the wormholes leading to the various systems been correlated at all? I realise it may be pretty hefty but it may give some clues... Or another way to cartograph the systems and linkages.

E.G. K162 to J2345678 named on the other side as Z985


The name correlates with the class of the Wormhole. This way you can say how long it will last or how much mass can pass:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormhole#Wormhole_Identification


I was probably wrong in doing so, but I actually took ThaMa to be asking for the other correlation present, such as: what kinds of systems exactly have Z985 statics? Only C1-C4, for example? Only those in particular constellations? As you can see form that link, there are multiple static IDs that all lead to the same class of wormhole. Why?

Locutus ofBorg
Caldari
Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus
Posted - 2010.09.02 15:25:00 - [332]
 

Is it possible that we are failing to look at these sites in the way CCP has been hinting at? What if the random "spawning" of sites in wormholes (anomalies and signatures) are not supposed to be looked at like a game mechanic, but as a literal "awakening" of these structures from their sleep. What if these enclaves are using the data communicated between themselves for some sort of higher purpose to an end which we cannot see quite yet, and our interference with those plans are forcing more and more enclaves to reveal themselves to get the job done. If that is the case then what is so special about wormhole space which would make the sleepers spread out their enclaves? Protection? De-centralization? Perhaps wormhole space is more of form of subspace which does not have the same laws of physics governing it, which would hint towards why there are different attributes to ships and the existence of blackholes, pulsars, and other stellar anomalies which would be quite dangerous to be near.

okst666
Posted - 2010.09.02 17:32:00 - [333]
 

Edited by: okst666 on 02/09/2010 17:32:24
are there more than one systems with monolithes?

I could swear, that some days ago my corp and I visited a wormhole with at least 2 monoliths...the info said "it's full of stars".

But we can't remember wich hole that was.

Locutus ofBorg
Caldari
Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus
Posted - 2010.09.02 18:05:00 - [334]
 

There's a monolith down by New Eden

okst666
Posted - 2010.09.02 18:09:00 - [335]
 

Originally by: Locutus ofBorg
There's a monolith down by New Eden


yeah - I know that.
I say, there is more than THAT ONE Monolith. There are wormholes with two of them.

Yaar Podshipnik
Gallente
Paxton Industries
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2010.09.02 19:57:00 - [336]
 

I honestly doubt a monolith is of any significance. I have always seen it as a nod towards "2001" (and the rest of the series). Having the last words of David Bowman in it's description further strengthens my belief that this is just an easter egg.

Altor Quon
Gallente
Posted - 2010.09.02 20:23:00 - [337]
 

I encountered a monolith some time ago in a mission complex in hi-sec space...

Bennura
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.09.03 10:13:00 - [338]
 

Pretty good thread, thanks to the contributors.

Motivated me to go out and get the two novels.

Keep it up, interesting read.

ThaMa Gebir
Gallente
SUECHTLER Inc.
Saints Amongst Sinners
Posted - 2010.09.03 11:06:00 - [339]
 

Originally by: Nathan Jameson
Originally by: Karak Terrel
Originally by: ThaMa Gebir
Another question, have the names of the wormholes leading to the various systems been correlated at all? I realise it may be pretty hefty but it may give some clues... Or another way to cartograph the systems and linkages.

E.G. K162 to J2345678 named on the other side as Z985


The name correlates with the class of the Wormhole. This way you can say how long it will last or how much mass can pass:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormhole#Wormhole_Identification


I was probably wrong in doing so, but I actually took ThaMa to be asking for the other correlation present, such as: what kinds of systems exactly have Z985 statics? Only C1-C4, for example? Only those in particular constellations? As you can see form that link, there are multiple static IDs that all lead to the same class of wormhole. Why?


That was actually what I was getting at, but the kind gentleman gave me some information I hadn't had before...

SO thank you good sir. Razz

ThaMa Gebir
Gallente
SUECHTLER Inc.
Saints Amongst Sinners
Posted - 2010.09.03 11:13:00 - [340]
 

Basically with my idea was, have the wormholes been correlated to which systems they open up to in other wormholes.

Say you are in a C4 Id: j342588 and you find a wormhole marked z985 which leads to j667468 and then you find another wh with the Id: z986 leading to j667469 (being the next one on the list and also the wh id is also the next on the list), also allowing us to recognise which wh leads where before we even go into it.

Has this been done, if not I will see if I can get the info together.


Locutus ofBorg
Caldari
Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus
Posted - 2010.09.03 15:08:00 - [341]
 

If that is the case ThaMa, then there is possibly and end point to these wormholes, a path which all roads eventually come to. Aside from the static Jovian wormhole, has there been any other indications of "points of interest"?

Arvash
Minmatar
Disciples of Tezcatlipoca
Posted - 2010.09.04 02:01:00 - [342]
 

Has anyone correlated the Sansha attacks with the wormhole region that has access to those systems? If they are all coming from just 1-2 WH regions we may have a trail of breadcrumbs...

Arvash
Minmatar
Disciples of Tezcatlipoca
Posted - 2010.09.04 05:33:00 - [343]
 

OK, so I was planning to head out on a shattered planets tour tonight. Already been to Seyllin, Vitrauze and New Eden. Like others I've seen here, I sort of made an assumption that they are in a ring centered around the Eve Gate.

Well, they aren't.

I mapped out my route - which is 204 jumps starting and ending at Hek (yes, I'm already reconsidering going ugh).

Then I spent two hours trying to figure out which star was at the center of that ring. What I wasn't able to figure out (since it's irregularly shaped) is which one is at the center. But what I do know is: 1) It's not New Eden, and 2) Whatever it is is in Tash-Murkon. I variously ended up in the Tash-Murkon Prime/Navi/Saminer triangulation of space.

Another item that seems to make the Eve Gate unlikely is that when you look at the third dimension, all of the 0.0 shattereds are on approximately the same "slice" through the galaxy - New Eden is potentially the furthest "up" system of all, and Seyllin sits a bit below the 0.0 systems.

One intriguing possibility is the Traumark Installation, which is listed as having been taken over by Sanshas and hangs out into the core of the Vapor Sea. Another is Shesha, not far away and an Ishukone R&D base.

In fact, the entire Amarr Empire is enclosed in the ring. The line cuts through Gallente and Minmatar space, and the Caldari Empire is totally outside the ring, as is Jove space. I've spent all of 5 minutes in Amarr space, so if any of you Amarr out there know of some good investigation candidates, let us know...

Maybe this is why the Chronicles suggested a diplomat?

Raid'En
Posted - 2010.09.04 07:32:00 - [344]
 

Edited by: Raid''En on 04/09/2010 07:40:10
just finished the 12 pages, and there's a thing i jut though about ;

you said looking at J numbers as time, there's about half missing.
you talk about all the wh system as a network... who seems broken

what about something simple ; wh spawn are broken because half system are not connected anymore to the rest ?

also i though about something else ; the sleepers have no shields, but do they know how to create some, or simply don't need them ?
shields seems way more useful than simple armor for stopping radiations and such, sleepers, as machines don't care, but theirs creators... i remember someone talking about the evolution of some tech, and how one very similar to sleepers tech have as only difference using shield.

i did lots of test about destination of statics days after days, but even if it seems obvious there's a logic on it i never really found the code.
but there's new elements here i didn't know ; time and shape of the galaxy.
i need to do a bit of mass collapse to try something ^^

also, do someone tried some things about if doings site change something to wh exit ?
like stopping all sleepers networks by killing them all can influence generation of wh on the system ?

Ivvor
Posted - 2010.09.04 20:05:00 - [345]
 

Regarding shattered planets. I got lucky today and found J164104 which is one of the two W-space systems with a shattered planet. Interestingly it has only one static wormhole spawn and that is to hisec space. For a class 3 system I believe this is unusual.

The shattered planet has the same description as the K-space versions. I could find nothing new on scan in the system even with a full scan using deep space probes. There doesn't seem to be anything unusual about the system at all. I tried everything I could think of, but will stick around for a few days in case I think of anything else to try.

If anybody else wants to check out the system, contact me in-game and I will tell you where the hisec exit is. I'm not going to post it here because the system is occupied and certain people might find the system valuable for reasons not related to solving the W-space mystery.


Raid'En
Posted - 2010.09.04 20:19:00 - [346]
 

Edited by: Raid''En on 04/09/2010 20:23:57
Edited by: Raid''En on 04/09/2010 20:21:00
Originally by: Ivvor
Interestingly it has only one static wormhole spawn and that is to hisec space. For a class 3 system I believe this is unusual.

all class have only 1 static WH, except class 2 (which are static to k-space AND static to w-space)
class 1 to 3 have static to k-space, class 4 to 6 have static to w-space.
J164104 is normal having a static to HS. few C3 have one, but it's totally normal for this one.

if you're intersted by the special system i found one of the 3 strange name once, it was a C4, didn't find anything special except the name.

if you want to know something special i may know a little bit,
i have for example tons of BM to k-space with date where i know from which system it was, so i can try checking some rules if you have some theories about location/time
but i don't know what is about game mechanic and what is about lore :)

Ivvor
Posted - 2010.09.05 13:23:00 - [347]
 

Regarding W-space to K-space wormholes I recently heard an interesting theory from somebody in a corp that has spent a long time in W-space, monitoring WH connections. They have noticed that WH exits to K-space follow a path, possibly a circular path and from that you can somehow deduce where the next exit will be from a given static WH in a particular W-space system. I don't have enough data at this time to confirm or deny this, but when rapidly collapsing the respawning hisec WHs recently we did discover that for a while at least each exit was no more than 6 jumps from the previous exit.

Anybody who has a lot of data on K-space exits from their particular W-space system might find it worth plotting them on a map to see if there is indeed a pattern.

Unfortunately, what I have been discovering lately is that a lot of the serious W-space corps jealously guard all knowledge of how things work in case it allows others to reduce their ability to make huge amounts of isk. It is entirely possible that all the secrets of Anoikis have been uncovered, but those who discovered them don't care about the fiction behind it all and are simply still working out ways to profit from that information and so keep it to themselves.

Raid'En
Posted - 2010.09.05 19:19:00 - [348]
 

Edited by: Raid''En on 05/09/2010 19:19:34
Originally by: Ivvor
They have noticed that WH exits to K-space follow a path, possibly a circular path and from that you can somehow deduce where the next exit will be from a given static WH in a particular W-space system.

i didn't find the code, but i can confirm exit follow a path from different regions, and every few days come back to the initial region.
i tried drawing a path on the map with the data i had on my old home, but didn't find anything special visible.
however this circle works on every wh i stayed long.

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.09.06 04:30:00 - [349]
 

Originally by: Raid'En
Edited by: Raid''En on 05/09/2010 19:19:34
Originally by: Ivvor
They have noticed that WH exits to K-space follow a path, possibly a circular path and from that you can somehow deduce where the next exit will be from a given static WH in a particular W-space system.

i didn't find the code, but i can confirm exit follow a path from different regions, and every few days come back to the initial region.
i tried drawing a path on the map with the data i had on my old home, but didn't find anything special visible.
however this circle works on every wh i stayed long.


I've noticed this effect even in my C4-static C2. On more than one occasion I've collapsed the C4-C2, scanned the new C2's high exit, and found it to be 6 or less jumps from the exit of the old C2.

This obviously doesn't happen every time, but enough for me to scrach my head.

Croniton
Posted - 2010.09.06 05:25:00 - [350]
 

I have been liveing in a C2 for a few months now and I have noticed that it dose seem to go to the same 3 regions over and over it even went to the same system 2 times.

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.09.06 15:47:00 - [351]
 

Another thing I've noticed is that the type 2 wormholes (those with static exits to other wormholes) seem to have a type they always connect to as well. For example, in my first C4-static C2 wormhole, 4 out of 5 C2 exits were A239s to low sec. Now, in the C4-static C2 I love in now, the same number have B274s to high sec.

Does this have something to do with constellations? www.StaticMapper.com seems to suggest so.

Maillik
Posted - 2010.09.07 15:50:00 - [352]
 

R1 leads to J244-lowsec
R2 leads to N110-Highsec
R3 leads to N110-highsec
R4 leads to O477/B274 - C3/Highsec
R5 leads to Y683/B274 - C4/Highsec
R6 leads to D382/U210 - C2-lowsec
R7 leads to N062/E545 - C5/Null
R8 leads to Z647/B274 - C1-highsec
R9 leads to U210 - lowsec
R10 leads to U210 - lowsec
R11 leads to U210 - lowsec
R12 leads to D845 - highsec
R13 leads to U210 - lowsec
R14 leads to K346 - Nullsec
R15 leads to U210 - lowsec
R16 leads to N766 - C2
R17 leads to U574 - C6
R18 leads to P060 - C1
R19 leads to X877 - C4
R20 leads to X877 - C4
R21 leads to C247 - C3
R22 leads to H900 - leads to C5
R23 leads to C247 - C3
R24 leads to Various
R25 leads to H296 - C5
R26 leads to V753 - C6
R27 leads to M267 - C3
R28 leads to H296 - C5
R29 leads to E175 - C4
R30 leads to variuos.

On top of these statics you have the Regional WH's that move about

Arvash
Minmatar
Disciples of Tezcatlipoca
Posted - 2010.09.07 21:03:00 - [353]
 

Originally by: Ivvor
Regarding shattered planets. I got lucky today and found J164104 which is one of the two W-space systems with a shattered planet. Interestingly it has only one static wormhole spawn and that is to hisec space. For a class 3 system I believe this is unusual.

The shattered planet has the same description as the K-space versions. I could find nothing new on scan in the system even with a full scan using deep space probes. There doesn't seem to be anything unusual about the system at all.


Thanks to Ivvor for the tip and the directions. The bad news is that I too, didn't find much unusual about J164104 (C3). It had a boatload of sites (7 combat, 7 ladar, 1 radar), and while hypothetically occupied (several planets with Customs Offices) I saw only one colony and one POS, and not a single ship. It had one outgoing WH to Highsec and one incoming WH from C2.

The good news is that there are definitely subtle differences between the shattered planets. They are not all the same. The best way to put it is that they appear different levels of "liquidity" or age. J164104 looks old, crusted over and almost like an "ash-covered barren", and I have an anecdotal shot of J115422 (C5) that looks positively ancient (it's almost black). Seyllin, by contrast, looks almost like a lava world. Examining the portraits in the info boxes, EAWE-2 looks somewhere in the middle, but it's hard to tell from the small shots.

Reference pictures:

If others have pictures to contribute so I don't have to make the whole 204-jump trip, especially pics of J115422 or EAWE-2 which are either unreachable or far-far-away without directions, I'd really appreciate it and will share.

Comparing database entries, other than all being first planets around A0 Blue stars, the biggest commonalities across the 9 shattered worlds from the stats dumps are the orbit radius (7 of 9 are between 0.556 and 0.581 AU) and the temperature (5 of 9 are between 530 and 600 Kelvin). On average they are all smaller planets as well (avg 5,564 Km radius).

Arvash
Minmatar
Disciples of Tezcatlipoca
Posted - 2010.09.08 03:38:00 - [354]
 

Edited by: Arvash on 08/09/2010 03:42:37
Brief OCD sidelight on these shattered worlds. Something was bothering me about the numbers in the database. The escape velocities seemed wrong. So with the power of Google and Wikipedia at my side, I recalculated them using the mass and radius values. In fact, the escape velocity values are right.

But for the curious, here is what they mean. These planets are on the small side of normal, 4150-8250 Km in radius. For comparison, Earth is 6378 and the moon is 1738.

However, the mass on the shattered worlds is so gutted that the escape velocity of 5 of 9 of these worlds is so low that an F-22 Raptor could achieve escape velocity. To use the old grade-school jumping analogy, a person on Earth can jump 2 feet, and this translates to 22 feet on the moon. The shattered worlds are the equivalent of the asteroid Ceres (radius 487 Km), where you could jump 140 feet, or the height of a 14-15 story building.

Pity the former residents of Seyllin I. If CCP's models could handle it, these worlds would be much uglier - a simple shell of air pockets and blasted charcoal.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.09.08 06:33:00 - [355]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 08/09/2010 17:48:30
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 08/09/2010 06:39:35

I've been pondering these questions a lot recently and I know most of these pieces have been raised before but I've not seen them put together in this way.

W-Space is a Maze, made up of concentric layers, in many ways similar to circular mazes more specifically it resembles the Labyrinth a maze designed to imprison a monster from escape.

Most (probably all) W-Space systems contain static links inwards and outwards.

Most W-Space systems locus sigs resemble time, ideal for over laying on a circular maze.

I think we will be able to plot WH-Systems onto a clock face using both the time AND the class as the depth.

Still need to ponder the three special cases in light of this new theory.

Mapping Template

Neapagow Asraie
Posted - 2010.09.09 14:06:00 - [356]
 

I apologize if this has been covered elsewhere, but could Insorum have come into the equation? As far as I know, it has never been stated where Ishukone learned about the production facility or gained control of the guardians. Perhaps Insorum was created by the Sleepers?talocan etc as cure for those in quarantine and released it to Ishukone for an unknown purpose(mass testing etc).
I personally agree witht the theories that there was a conflict, and that those in 'Quarantine' are prisoners that have been deemed useful to keep alive, but also need to be kept from escaping, and what better way then through cryogenics. The reason that I can come up to link this with the Insorum is if they are looking for a biological solution to finish off what they consider to be their enemies, and as the sleepers are an AI, if their core programming is to find this solution, would they not continue to do so for eternity? This may also explain the talocan wrecks; that they were the other faction and were trying to rescue/prevent the sleepers from finding this new weapon. This theory also takes the mirrors into account, what if these mirrors are the same type of mirrors that we use on the internet? For the storage and transfer of data?
As for the isogen-5 placement, as cynos can be blocked, what is to say that the wormhole technology employed by the sleepers can't be blocked in the same way as a cyno? Taking this another step further, is there a limit to how much a cyno jammer can jam? If enough pressure is put on, will it eventually collapse, and if so, could this be applied to anything that blocks normal wormholes? So as such, could the isogen-5 have been collected and placed as it was for the sole purpose of getting to w-space?
Once again, I apoloise if this has been theorised and responded to elsewhere.

Raid'En
Posted - 2010.09.09 18:19:00 - [357]
 

i just though about something ;

all those who lived on w-space have see that WH have a little time bonus after their normal cycle time, for example a 24h wh collapse after 24h10 - 24h40
as we talked about the time and place of the exit it may be the reason for this time bonus ;
it's to be sure the exit won't be the same, maybe if we collapse it exactly after 24h exit will be on the same system ?
dunno if someone tried this ?
i do'nt really have the logistics to try myself :/

Raid'En
Posted - 2010.09.15 00:27:00 - [358]
 

Edited by: Raid''En on 15/09/2010 00:30:25
i was finnally able to do a bit of check, trying to have the HS exit of the same system open at exactly at the same time on some days, and have not at all the same exit result... seems it's not that.

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2010.09.16 05:38:00 - [359]
 

Originally by: Maillik
R1 leads to J244-lowsec
R2 leads to N110-Highsec
R3 leads to N110-highsec
R4 leads to O477/B274 - C3/Highsec
R5 leads to Y683/B274 - C4/Highsec
R6 leads to D382/U210 - C2-lowsec
R7 leads to N062/E545 - C5/Null
R8 leads to Z647/B274 - C1-highsec
R9 leads to U210 - lowsec
R10 leads to U210 - lowsec
R11 leads to U210 - lowsec
R12 leads to D845 - highsec
R13 leads to U210 - lowsec
R14 leads to K346 - Nullsec
R15 leads to U210 - lowsec
R16 leads to N766 - C2
R17 leads to U574 - C6
R18 leads to P060 - C1
R19 leads to X877 - C4
R20 leads to X877 - C4
R21 leads to C247 - C3
R22 leads to H900 - leads to C5
R23 leads to C247 - C3
R24 leads to Various
R25 leads to H296 - C5
R26 leads to V753 - C6
R27 leads to M267 - C3
R28 leads to H296 - C5
R29 leads to E175 - C4
R30 leads to variuos.

On top of these statics you have the Regional WH's that move about


using this information, might it be possible to make a map out of it somehow?

they've said its a network before. it is possible we might be able to put something together with it?

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.09.16 07:35:00 - [360]
 

Originally by: Myxx
Originally by: Maillik
R1 leads to J244-lowsec
R2 leads to N110-Highsec
R3 leads to N110-highsec
R4 leads to O477/B274 - C3/Highsec
R5 leads to Y683/B274 - C4/Highsec
R6 leads to D382/U210 - C2-lowsec
R7 leads to N062/E545 - C5/Null
R8 leads to Z647/B274 - C1-highsec
R9 leads to U210 - lowsec
R10 leads to U210 - lowsec
R11 leads to U210 - lowsec
R12 leads to D845 - highsec
R13 leads to U210 - lowsec
R14 leads to K346 - Nullsec
R15 leads to U210 - lowsec
R16 leads to N766 - C2
R17 leads to U574 - C6
R18 leads to P060 - C1
R19 leads to X877 - C4
R20 leads to X877 - C4
R21 leads to C247 - C3
R22 leads to H900 - leads to C5
R23 leads to C247 - C3
R24 leads to Various
R25 leads to H296 - C5
R26 leads to V753 - C6
R27 leads to M267 - C3
R28 leads to H296 - C5
R29 leads to E175 - C4
R30 leads to variuos.

On top of these statics you have the Regional WH's that move about


using this information, might it be possible to make a map out of it somehow?

they've said its a network before. it is possible we might be able to put something together with it?


This is reminds me of snakes and ladders.

I'm starting to think about my circular maze idea as more like a cylinder.


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