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blankseplocked Christ, Fix active tanking or at least bring it in line.
 
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2010.02.01 15:30:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Megan Maynard on 01/02/2010 15:44:06
This crap has gone on long enough. With the rare exception of some ships being able to active tank, active tanking is utterly worthless in pvp.

Not only is it possible to tank a BC up to 100k EHP, add a single logistics ship and the tanking is rediculous for a BC class ship. (Not even talking command ships here.)

Just try to match that with a logistics cap transfer and a local rep. It cannot be done.

Active tanking in all forms has been dead beyond belief with the exception of niche ships and using faction mods/boosters. Something the passive tanked ships do not need.

BC's are the worst violators of this, active tanking most of these ships is a waste of time.

(Again, there are a small number of "NICHE" ships that can active tank.)

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.02.01 15:35:00 - [2]
 

How?

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2010.02.01 15:37:00 - [3]
 

Can we have a TL:DR?

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2010.02.01 15:37:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Megan Maynard on 01/02/2010 15:41:40
Originally by: Tippia
How?


Reduce CPU needs, Reduce cap needs for active tanking ships, Increase base repper amounts, decrease base repper cap amounts, increase HP in active tanking ships, ANYTHING.

Originally by: Mag's
Can we have a TL:DR?


Trolling removed. Zymurgist

WarlockX
Amarr
Free Trade Corp
Posted - 2010.02.01 15:50:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Megan Maynard
Edited by: Megan Maynard on 01/02/2010 15:41:40
Originally by: Tippia
How?


Reduce CPU needs, Reduce cap needs for active tanking ships, Increase base repper amounts, decrease base repper cap amounts, increase HP in active tanking ships, ANYTHING.

Originally by: Mag's
Can we have a TL:DR?


Trolling removed. Zymurgist


Problem is then you break active taking for PVE. It's already too good in that respect.

Stu Pendisdick
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2010.02.01 15:53:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Can we have a TL:DR?


5 simple sentences too much for you?

Good friggin grief.

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2010.02.01 15:54:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: WarlockX
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Edited by: Megan Maynard on 01/02/2010 15:41:40
Originally by: Tippia
How?


Reduce CPU needs, Reduce cap needs for active tanking ships, Increase base repper amounts, decrease base repper cap amounts, increase HP in active tanking ships, ANYTHING.

Originally by: Mag's
Can we have a TL:DR?


Trolling removed. Zymurgist


Problem is then you break active taking for PVE. It's already too good in that respect.


Who cares, this thread isn't about the broken mechanics of missions and ratting.

Tobin Shalim
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
Posted - 2010.02.01 15:54:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: WarlockX
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Edited by: Megan Maynard on 01/02/2010 15:41:40
Originally by: Tippia
How?


Reduce CPU needs, Reduce cap needs for active tanking ships, Increase base repper amounts, decrease base repper cap amounts, increase HP in active tanking ships, ANYTHING.

Originally by: Mag's
Can we have a TL:DR?


Trolling removed. Zymurgist


Problem is then you break active taking for PVE. It's already too good in that respect.


How would it break active tanking for PvE? It's already so overpowered that I doubt that the bonuses applied for PvP would be making much in the way of a difference.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:23:00 - [9]
 

Do it the CCP way: Boost active tanking by nerfing passive tanking. Cool

Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:29:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Do it the CCP way: Boost active tanking by nerfing passive tanking. Cool

Well personally I would do it by nerfing cap warfare.

But this is CCP's game so they can do it any way they please. Maybees they like the RR fleets, I certainly do. But I also liked when I had the option of fitting a repairer, instead of always fitting a plate.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:32:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Stu Pendis****
Originally by: Mag's
Can we have a TL:DR?


5 simple sentences too much for you?

Good friggin grief.



Yes. Very Happy

Trolling removed. Zymurgist

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:34:00 - [12]
 

Read sometime ago a proposal on shc, let a cycle take half as long and double the rep amount.

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:34:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Stu Pendis****
Originally by: Mag's
Can we have a TL:DR?


5 simple sentences too much for you?

Good friggin grief.



Yes. Very Happy




Trolling removed. Zymurgist

Aadi Grox
Perkone
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:35:00 - [14]
 

cry more

Catherine Frasier
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:37:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: WarlockX
Problem is then you break active taking for PVE. It's already too good in that respect.
Who cares
Who cares? PVE players. Oh yeah, and anyone who plays in the same universe where mission farming so strongly affects the economy.

So who cares? I do and you should.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:38:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Megan Maynard
And coming back with "Oh my mother's dead" is so 1999.......


Unlike 'I screwed your mother' jokes? Amiright?

Oh and I don't have any siblings, you need to be more careful or take a visit to spec-savers. Very Happy

N'tek alar
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:38:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Stu Pendis****
Originally by: Mag's
Can we have a TL:DR?


5 simple sentences too much for you?

Good friggin grief.



Yes. Very Happy




Trolling removed. Zymurgist


Not that i have anything to do with this, But you remarking on his comeback being old after you started up the whole "i did your mother lol" thing is ****ing hilarious.

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:41:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: WarlockX
Problem is then you break active taking for PVE. It's already too good in that respect.
Who cares
Who cares? PVE players. Oh yeah, and anyone who plays in the same universe where mission farming so strongly affects the economy.

So who cares? I do and you should.


Still don't care.
I want my active tanking modules to be worth the PG/CPU they are taking up on my ships. And none of my ships besides my maelstrom warrent fitting an active tanking module. Not a single one.

If ruptures sky rocketed to 100 mil tomorrow I'd start flying bellicose's, I don't care one damn bit about mission runners as long as I kill one now and again.

The issue is the ****ing worthless active tanking mods in this game as soon as try to shoot anything with a flabby, choletorol filled, sweaty heartbeat. (Yes you are all fat asses.)

Catherine Frasier
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:56:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Megan Maynard
I don't care one damn bit about mission runners as long as I kill one now and again.
And yet CCP isn't immediately listening to your demands. Gee, there's a shocker.

Originally by: Megan Maynard
The issue is the ****ing worthless active tanking mods in this game as soon as try to shoot anything with a flabby, choletorol filled, sweaty heartbeat. (Yes you are all fat asses.)
Clever stratagem! It sure is hard (or is that pointless?) to argue with a spittle-flecked, vein-throbbing hate-rant. </yawn>


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:03:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Megan Maynard
[self||solo] active tanking is utterly worthless in pvp.

Can you explain why that specific thing is supposed to be a problem ?

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:06:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Megan Maynard on 01/02/2010 17:12:16
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Megan Maynard
I don't care one damn bit about mission runners as long as I kill one now and again.
And yet CCP isn't immediately listening to your demands. Gee, there's a shocker.

Originally by: Megan Maynard
The issue is the ****ing worthless active tanking mods in this game as soon as try to shoot anything with a flabby, choletorol filled, sweaty heartbeat. (Yes you are all fat asses.)
Clever stratagem! It sure is hard (or is that pointless?) to argue with a spittle-flecked, vein-throbbing hate-rant. </yawn>




What so because active tanking is "Adequate" in missions and ratting means they shouldn't make it better for the rest of us?

Funny how a raven can tank 3-4 BS rats just find until a single t1 player run cruiser comes in and smokes it. I don't think active tanking is working quite as good as you claim it is.

And mission runners are either A. Selling/buying isk or B. Casual Players.

I am neither so I don't care. Nor do I believe this will change, it's been going on for 2 years every since the (1st) hitpoint buffer and it's been perpetuated by the buff of logistics a year and a half ago. (Which I thought was an awesome change by CCP in all seriousness.)

There are going to be idiots arguing that active tanking is "fine". They'll point out the myrm or the maelstrom. (two that came to the top of my head)

NICHE SHIPS. Your run of the mill eve ship has some kind of damage/resist bonus and is either armor or shield.

You are wasting valuable cap and PG/CPU just to fit something that won't make you live longer then a passive tank, in fact you WILL die faster.

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Megan Maynard
[self||solo] active tanking is utterly worthless in pvp.

Can you explain why that specific thing is supposed to be a problem ?




You're the self proclaimed eve genius, figure it out.




Mr JitaFantastic
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:12:00 - [22]
 

The reason why active tanking doesn't work as well as it use to is because the only way people fight these days is when they have more then 5 people in a fleet, or outnumber a hostile fleet.

So you are forced to buffer fit.

Buffer fit with 100K Effective hit points means youll probably get a chance to hit your target at least once before u die.

With active tank, you just die before they even turn on. With the exception of the myrmidon, I haven't seen any ships worth active tanking. The astarte is worth active tanking, but even then if u get primaried its melted in a second.

So ya, it be nice for active tanks to be able to hold out a bit longer, but then if u make it to powerful they will be pwn mobiles in smaller engagements. (Which they are in some cases - see maelstrom).

the main issue is that the game dynamic focusses on Numbers. there is no benefit to flying around in a group of 5 any more. yuo need a group of 15.

if somehow small gangs could be the norm then active tanking would rematerialize to be a good method.

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:15:00 - [23]
 

This.

Now add a logistics ship to the 100 k EHP ship.

Try to match it with cap logistics and a local repper, it ain't gonna happen.

And active tanked small engagements aren't as big of advantage as you claim it is.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:18:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Megan Maynard
[self||solo] active tanking is utterly worthless in pvp.
Can you explain why that specific thing is supposed to be a problem ?
You're the self proclaimed eve genius, figure it out.
Doesn't work that way. If you can't explain what the problem is, we can only come to the conclusion that you're just cluelessly and baselessly whining just for the sake of whining.

So explain what the problem is or just accept that there isn't one.

Catherine Frasier
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:18:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Megan Maynard
Funny how a raven can tank 3-4 BS rats just find until a single t1 player run cruiser comes in and smokes it. I don't think active tanking is working quite as good as you claim it is.
So you don't really understand the mechanics, that clears things up a bit. The reason PVE tanks are vulnerable to the attacks of other players is that "normal" PVE setups address only the damage types of the local racial rats. This makes it trivially easy for a ganker to use the other damage types and punch through the giant gaping hole in the mission runner's tank.

Originally by: Megan Maynard
And mission runners are either A. Selling/buying isk or B. Casual Players.
I won't dignify the first claim with a response. As to the second, even if it were true that all mission runners were "casual" players, so what? Casual players are still players, they still count and their actions still affect the rest of us.

Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:25:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Catherine Frasier
The reason PVE tanks are vulnerable to the attacks of other players is that "normal" PVE setups address only the damage types of the local racial rats.


And because the dps of NPC pirate ships is pathetic compared to player ships.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:26:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Megan Maynard
[self||solo] active tanking is utterly worthless in pvp.

Can you explain why that specific thing is supposed to be a problem ?

You're the self proclaimed eve genius, figure it out.

My opinion is that it's perfectly fine if solo-tanking (with or without remote cap transfer) is a complete failure against a larger group of enemies, and it would be STUPID if it wasn't.
You're the one considering it a problem, YOU figure it out and explain why it should be considered a problem.

Avion Saberis
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:32:00 - [28]
 

Ya know PvP is different then PvE. The rats in a belt don't always use mods that do the most dmg. And also, active tanking can be used in PvP, you just have to think more on it. Best way to stop a logistics ship from upping a BC, is to jam it or damp it. Course if your one of those ppl who sit there and think "i can solo eveything" then ya your running into alot of probelms. Plus most ppl go after the logistics ships first. I do. Once that ships is down, jam the bc and watch the drones destory him. now the bc is dead. find ways to kill them, that should be you first option, not being a carebear.

Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:37:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Tippia
So explain what the problem is or just accept that there isn't one.

The problem is that the uselessness of active tanking means that blobbing is encouraged. A active tanking Megathron is just a kill mail waiting to happen cause its cap won't last. But a fleet of RR Megathrons is an awesome thing.

I suppose it comes down to personal preference, I like having a choice and not always fitting the current flavour of the month.

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:40:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Megan Maynard
Who cares?


Then why should we care about this? Neutral


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