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ISellThingz
Posted - 2010.02.01 12:41:00 - [31]
 

Enjoy your EvE with 95% less population.

oolk
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.02.01 12:49:00 - [32]
 

CCP did just that for 1 day back in early 2006 iirc...

All systems were 0.0.

loony thezoon
Posted - 2010.02.01 13:03:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Nooma K'Larr
Edited by: Nooma K''Larr on 01/02/2010 11:48:01
How about turning all of eve into 1.0 security for a day.

Call it, "CareBear Day"


Headline: "1,000 man bs suicide gank squad takes down titan"

Would make for some interesting insurance raging

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.02.01 13:18:00 - [34]
 

What I am really curious to know is this:

Why is it that some people in the game aren't content until everyone plays Eve their way?

I'm being serious. I am in a player corp, I do go out and socialize, and I do occasionally get my arse handed to me in PvP (mostly because I suck at it Laughing) but why do you feel the need to force other people to play the way you want them to? I hear the old "Eve is a Sandbox!" and "HTFU" arguments when people bring up the idea of curbing suicide ganking, so why don't you folks take some of your own advice.

Eve is a sandbox. HTFU.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2010.02.01 13:24:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: De'Veldrin
What I am really curious to know is this:

Why is it that some people in the game aren't content until everyone plays Eve their way?

I'm being serious. I am in a player corp, I do go out and socialize, and I do occasionally get my arse handed to me in PvP (mostly because I suck at it Laughing) but why do you feel the need to force other people to play the way you want them to? I hear the old "Eve is a Sandbox!" and "HTFU" arguments when people bring up the idea of curbing suicide ganking, so why don't you folks take some of your own advice.

Eve is a sandbox. HTFU.


Because this influence their play as well

Example:
Hi-sec super safe unlimited afk mission running and mining makes mining as a profffesion not very profitable thus hiring escorts is not viable option

Result:
It destroys a lot of potential fun.


Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.01 13:26:00 - [36]
 

Some carebears will quit, some will move to 0.0 (alliance or NRDS) and just live there doing there thing. Meanwhile the forums will be flooded by ganker tears from people who cant 'pvp' risk free anymore.

Assuming we are doing it the correct (tm) way it also means pretty much the end of pirating, you either need to be in a large alliance or not pirating to have docking rights anywhere. Even if there would continue to be npc stations it would only mean stuff is sold several times above their value at those stations.

tl;dr, carebears will adapt, high sec pvp'ers wont.

Tala Singatri
Posted - 2010.02.01 13:27:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: oolk
CCP did just that for 1 day back in early 2006 iirc...

All systems were 0.0.


I remember this. A friend and I were in a station and when we undocked there was a BS just sitting there, 500 km from the station, popping any frig that moved.

CCP did this for one day and then reverted the DB back to the day before so no one lost anything. I can't remember why exactly, but I think they wanted to test with a high load or something.

I was fun for a couple of minutes then lost it's charm quickly as I was a very low SP char at the time with no PVP knowledge. Could basically fly frigs and destroyers.

interesting to see though.

Wesfahrn
WESCORP 2.0
Posted - 2010.02.01 15:11:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: PerrinAybarra
some dip brings this up every so often
let's see
1 a day maybe 2 before mass cancelations
2 oh we have builders in 0.0 as well sorry but they will never match empires sheer quantity
3 might as well forget caps as no ice mining anymore(not a bad thing)
4 CCP lasts a month afterwards due to no income

So yeah great idea. Seriously next time you get a good idea go take a dump it will equal the same


You forgot lag is gone

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.02.01 15:42:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Wesfahrn
Originally by: PerrinAybarra
some dip brings this up every so often
let's see
1 a day maybe 2 before mass cancelations
2 oh we have builders in 0.0 as well sorry but they will never match empires sheer quantity
3 might as well forget caps as no ice mining anymore(not a bad thing)
4 CCP lasts a month afterwards due to no income

So yeah great idea. Seriously next time you get a good idea go take a dump it will equal the same


You forgot lag is gone


Actually as subscriptions -> 0, lag -> infinity
(Definining infinite lag as "ZOMG they turned off the servers!")

Jawas
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.01 15:44:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: De'Veldrin
What I am really curious to know is this:

Why is it that some people in the game aren't content until everyone plays Eve their way?

Because the PVP losers who can't cut it in lowsec and nullsec want easy targets.

Mining dos not suffer, Zydrine and a lot of other minerals are only available from lowsec and nullsec roids. What little comes from reprocessing highsec mission loot is nowhere near enough to support the manufacturing industry that goes on in highsec. Large quantities of lower grade minerals come from highsec but manufacturing requires tremendous amounts of them for each job. I know of only one or two BP's that do not require Zydrine, Megacyte or Morphite - all of which come from lowsec or below and are very expensive to buy in comparison to the highsec minerals.

If manufacturers did not have the freedom to move around in relative safety, manufacturing jobs would cease to be done. Highsec would be reduced to station-side jobs like BP copying and research etc because few would want to leave the current station. Eventually, these jobs would dry up when no more BP's could be purchased without leaving the station.

Traders would practically grind to a halt. A Freighter has no defence and is always primaried in lowsec due to it's value. Despite having an escort, it is nearly always lost so Freighter pilots would not undock. Trade in highsec would be at the same level it is in lowsec at the moment - Practically nil.

Finally, noobs who are ganked constantly because they are easy prey would just give up. Not being able to actually get anywhere in the game would completely destroy any idea they had of making a future in the game. Many of these noobs eventually go on to become PVPers in lowsec and nullsec. Some will remain in highsec but you'd probably be surprised how many get bored with it and move down eventually. Having that ability to grow enough without too much danger to be competitive is a vital stage. Take that stage away and there's no more new blood in the game.

Why do you think CCP strengthened Concord a few years back? There was a time when some ships could actually tank Concord but it was being abused for the purpose of indiscriminate killing of new players. I believe on Eve Files, there is a video of someone in a Geddon I think, not only tanking Concord at a gate but destroying them too.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.02.01 15:58:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Batolemaeus on 01/02/2010 16:03:03
Edited by: Batolemaeus on 01/02/2010 16:00:44
The only problem i see is missing newbie protection. People starting shouldn't be in immediate danger, they need a place to learn the mechanics first, earn some money, get some ships. You should and can not trust players to help there.

There are other problems, too. There should be a place where new political entities can form and get into shape. An all 0.0 world would make this extremely hard.

I don't see any problems for industrialists personally. If anything it's their big chance, since survival in 0.0 requires industrial interdependence, and a missing highsec market would force all entities to invest into production even more than now.

Originally by: Jawas

Mining dos not suffer, Zydrine and a lot of other minerals are only available from lowsec and nullsec roids. What little comes from reprocessing highsec mission loot is nowhere near enough to support the manufacturing industry that goes on in highsec.



Get your facts straight.
You're wrong. Terribly wrong. As in, less than 50% of zyd/mega comes from mining...

Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:02:00 - [42]
 

I am all in favour of the OPs suggestion, on one condition. Death is permanent. None of this wussy waking up in a clone vat. You are dead, gone forever. Your next character, or toon as I believe is the accepted term now, can inherit your stuffs.

My Postman
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:04:00 - [43]
 

This must be a fail attempt of a low sec griefer, too lazy to search for targets. I tell you what will happen:

1)CONCORD disabled.
2)ALL highsec dwellers stay docked shocked. 1000īs of pirates (formally known as suicide gankers) invading highsec, searching for targets.
3) No targets there, pirates start shooting each other in highsec.
4) Remaining pirates endlessly camping highsec stations. Even noone there in jita to get "discoed".
5) No one mines, building industy is going down, markets dying.
6) 1000īs of carebares emo-ragequitting.
7) Pirates emo-ragequitting because lack of targets, too scared to go to nullsec where the last targets are, but they CAN shoot back.
8) Last player "Westfahrn" gets last Evemail from CCP saying that this game canīt be funded with one single player.
9) End of story. End of EVE.

Hope this helps!

Jawas
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:17:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus
Get your facts straight.
You're wrong. Terribly wrong. As in, less than 50% of zyd/mega comes from mining...

Things have really changed dramatically in that respect in the last year then. I had one account who was a pure industrial with practically maxed out industrial skills. All the mission running loot the 30 strong corp got wasn't anywhere near enough to supply the Zyd and mega he needed, it worked out less than 5% of his needs. To give an idea of how much mission running they did, a 5% tax from missions was enough to fund all the offices, the lowsec POS fuel and charters etc and keep a healthy balance in the corp wallet, even after buying the mega and zyd my manufacturer needed. He wasn't really busy either.

The only good that came from it was the occasional Morphite from level 4 Rogue drones. Since we had no T2 BP's, it was never needed.

Wesfahrn
WESCORP 2.0
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:38:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Jawas

If manufacturers did not have the freedom to move around in relative safety, manufacturing jobs would cease to be done. Highsec would be reduced to station-side jobs like BP copying and research etc because few would want to leave the current station. Eventually, these jobs would dry up when no more BP's could be purchased without leaving the station.
There is relative safety in 0.0

Originally by: Jawas

Traders would practically grind to a halt. A Freighter has no defence and is always primaried in lowsec due to it's value. Despite having an escort, it is nearly always lost so Freighter pilots would not undock. Trade in highsec would be at the same level it is in lowsec at the moment - Practically nil.
Afaik a freighter is needed in order to establish infrastructure hubs, and those exist in 0.0 too.

Originally by: Jawas

Finally, noobs who are ganked constantly because they are easy prey would just give up. Not being able to actually get anywhere in the game would completely destroy any idea they had of making a future in the game. Many of these noobs eventually go on to become PVPers in lowsec and nullsec. Some will remain in highsec but you'd probably be surprised how many get bored with it and move down eventually. Having that ability to grow enough without too much danger to be competitive is a vital stage. Take that stage away and there's no more new blood in the game.


Not everyone will be blowing new players up. There common rule in eve is still strength in numbers. This means a new player is very valuable. I see player maintained security in the starting areas. Also, people will be actively recruiting from real life more than now, because each individual player becomes much more valuable. Keep in mind bots wont thrive in this kind of environment.

Originally by: Jawas

Why do you think CCP strengthened Concord a few years back? There was a time when some ships could actually tank Concord but it was being abused for the purpose of indiscriminate killing of new players. I believe on Eve Files, there is a video of someone in a Geddon I think, not only tanking Concord at a gate but destroying them too.

Of course people are going to try and go against the game mechanic, i would even find it fun blowing up unsuspecting people who think they are safe. But no one will be surprised if concord dont exist, they know its a man eat man world out there.

This brings me to another point, we know walking in stations are comming, so why not incorporate the tutorial here. Spaceflight simulation and such. You will be born on the station, learn the basics of space flight and learn nothing is certain other than you are responsible for your own security there is no-one out there who have to defend you and uphold your sovereignty as a space-man. Its in the word itself space-man. Give space. Respect others. I know it will be so.

Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:47:00 - [46]
 

Crossposting is badExclamation

Wesfahrn
WESCORP 2.0
Posted - 2010.02.01 16:47:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus

The only problem i see is missing newbie protection. People starting shouldn't be in immediate danger, they need a place to learn the mechanics first, earn some money, get some ships. You should and can not trust players to help there.
Like i just mentioned in the post above, new players will become a lucrative "good" for corporations. I for one think some powerfull entities will evolve on the principle of protecting and tutoring the new pilots. Think of it as IT Alliance meets EVE University.

Originally by: Batolemaeus

There are other problems, too. There should be a place where new political entities can form and get into shape. An all 0.0 world would make this extremely hard.
If the gestimates are correct the PCU will decrease somewhat, or at the very least the population will spread out more. There should be plenty room for new entities. You must also keep in mind as the world becomes more dangerous ships with jump capability becomes more lucrative, which will make the world seem even larger.

Originally by: Batolemaeus

Originally by: Jawas

Mining dos not suffer, Zydrine and a lot of other minerals are only available from lowsec and nullsec roids. What little comes from reprocessing highsec mission loot is nowhere near enough to support the manufacturing industry that goes on in highsec.



Get your facts straight.
You're wrong. Terribly wrong. As in, less than 50% of zyd/mega comes from mining...


I dont know if you agree or not, but i think its important to make this point too. Mining will become lucrative. If the risk increases so does the reward.

Nekopyat
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:07:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Nekopyat on 01/02/2010 17:14:25
While I would personally quit, the OP might have a point for the health of EVE in general.

I am thinking back to the Trammel/Felucca split in UO. When they introduced the PvE server, 90% of the people left the PvP server, leaving it an uninteresting wasteland.. not just in terms of targets, but the social fabric that formed the society of mutual protection. Many felt Trammel ruined UO or at minimal stripped it of the level (and complexity) of interaction that made it special. Politics and economy became meaningless.

In fact, if I recall correctly, the core EVE developers started EVE after that split partly in annoyance.

Hrm. For the newbie protection question.. I could see keeping small pockets of hi-sec around the starter hubs (with no path between them) which only contain resources that make sense to young players. Putting restrictions on the jump gates (dessy and smaller only?) on these regions would probably help.

I think another thing that would be needed is the ability to establish a POS at the jump gates. Defending a gate is a labor intensive task that makes holding territory from random pirates untenable for small corps. Being able to dump ISK into automated defenses like POS equipment at the gate would help a lot there and make holding safe territory more in reach for small groups while still leaving them vulnerable to cooridated attacks.

Perrigrene
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:23:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Perrigrene on 01/02/2010 17:25:40
Concord can't collapse if it does the game ends, what would be cool is if it was under siege or was no longer able to provide the same security and bring to bear immensely powerful ships or endless reinforcement spawns. There has to be a reason for this, I suggested an invasion by the Pirate Factions, and Sleepers. One of them makes the move and the other is spurred on by the opportunity, possibly the two plan it together or not. Either way it shouldn't just be Concord is gone, poof, they should be occupied and in being so occupied leave pirate rats, the likes of which highsec has not seen, and sleepers flying through space attacking players. It should be dynamic thought not just highsec is now lowsec and concord won't respond a war of that scale would have battlefronts and systems gained and lost, ie a campaign but I don't see CCP doing this way too much work. They could remove concord completely because that is easy but not a game worth playing.

A free for all PVP zone everywhere is just stupid, no ramifications, as has been said in this thread trade/mining would all grind to a halt or be reduced to such small stakes that BC and BS could deal with them.

If concord vanished, I'd petition CCP for a refund of my remaining game time as that is not the game I signed up for and the change is such a drastic one as to not even be considered a modification or expansion but a completely 'new game'.




Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:23:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Jawas
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Get your facts straight.
You're wrong. Terribly wrong. As in, less than 50% of zyd/mega comes from mining...
Things have really changed dramatically in that respect in the last year then.
No, it's been like that for quite a while. Mining stands for some 43% of the Zyd production and 44% of the Mega production. Granted the main problem is that both of you seem to assume that missions are the only other alternative – they aren't, but the key source of those two minerals are still low/nullsec.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:31:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Jawas
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Get your facts straight.
You're wrong. Terribly wrong. As in, less than 50% of zyd/mega comes from mining...

Things have really changed dramatically in that respect in the last year then. I had one account who was a pure industrial with practically maxed out industrial skills. All the mission running loot the 30 strong corp got wasn't anywhere near enough to supply the Zyd and mega he needed, it worked out less than 5% of his needs. To give an idea of how much mission running they did, a 5% tax from missions was enough to fund all the offices, the lowsec POS fuel and charters etc and keep a healthy balance in the corp wallet, even after buying the mega and zyd my manufacturer needed. He wasn't really busy either.

The only good that came from it was the occasional Morphite from level 4 Rogue drones. Since we had no T2 BP's, it was never needed.



Most Mega and Zyd comes from the Drone regions, not mining.

Magnus Nordir
Caldari
Nordir Industries
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:33:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Magnus Nordir on 01/02/2010 17:33:44
Originally by: Perrigrene

A free for all PVP zone everywhere is just stupid, no ramifications, as has been said in this thread trade/mining would all grind to a halt or be reduced to such small stakes that BC and BS could deal with them.

If concord vanished, I'd petition CCP for a refund of my remaining game time as that is not the game I signed up for and the change is such a drastic one as to not even be considered a modification or expansion but a completely 'new game'.



OP's suggestion: remove CONCORD

Your suggestion: Keep CONCORD, bring high bounty belt rats to highsec so I don't even have to accept missions in order to print ISK

I see what you did there Laughing

Zirilia
Perkone
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:41:00 - [53]
 

dont care, STO is out tomorrow so no big loss to me if this game becomes 100% pvp.

Wesfahrn
WESCORP 2.0
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:44:00 - [54]
 

Afaik not all 0.0 corporations are 100% pvp

Magnus Nordir
Caldari
Nordir Industries
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:47:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Wesfahrn
Afaik not all 0.0 corporations are 100% pvp


But most of them have pvp divisions or are part of alliances with active pvp wings. Those who don't tend to get forced out quickly.

Wesfahrn
WESCORP 2.0
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:50:00 - [56]
 

But whats the problem? You can be all safe and sound producing your stuff, wether concord delivers the security or other players.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2010.02.01 18:21:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 01/02/2010 18:30:06
If this were a clearly announced one day event, it would be interesting and full of drama, but nothing more than that.

However, if it were a permanent change a few game mechanics would have to be sorted out. There would also be a loss in subscription numbers for a while, but eventually equilibrium would be found.

1: Concord disbands. Much chaos ensues.

2: Much wailing on the forums, either for it to be reverted back to the former status quo or for things such as war declarations, the new player experience, Sov in the "new" Empire space, etc to be adjusted.

3: Large number of people let their subscriptions lapse in protest, industry starts to slip, prices escalate.

4: Low sec pirate entities are rampaging through former high sec, preying on anything that moves, including each other.

5: Faction warfare organizations begin by defending themselves, and then as the most organized military entities with direct ties to empire they begin carving out area's to "police" for themselves.

6: Large 0.0 entities begin to move forces into former high sec. They secure certain area's and re-establish mining and industry in those area's. High sec dwellers that have not left the game yet, or were large enough and well organized enough to survive the chaos are absorbed or make arrangements with them.

7: Pressure is applied and CCP adds mechanisms to establish some sort of Sov or guardian ship of former high sec, recruitment mechanics for corps to reach out to new players (if the corp opts to do so) from day 1. Organizations like EVE Uni spring up everywhere, usually with direct connections to the power groups that are carving up former empire.

8: Equilibrium slowly returns, new players are no longer easy prey as they decide from the start which player owned corp to sign up with. Borders stabilize to the same degree as they do in 0.0. Dwellers in former empire begin to learn proper techniques to survive and thrive in a non-Concord protected area.

How low would subscription numbers go before they begin to bounce back?
Would the new dynamics of EVE draw more or less new subscribers than it currently does?

This would depend on how quickly and smoothly CCP changed the key factors mention above that affect area control and the new player experience. If this was done well, the dip in subscribers would be temporary. If done very well, the new subscriber numbers might be higher than ever.

Either way, it would be interesting to say the least. However, it will never happen.

Violet Serena
Posted - 2010.02.01 18:44:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Dennmoth Ferdier
I think it'd be awesome to have one day in a year CONCORD fully disabled for 24 hours with HUGE banners everywhere "CONCORD STRIKE, NEGOTIATIONS FOR MORE PAY AND DOUGHNUTS ON-GOING!"


Ehh, most would just not log in that day, and the ones who do would just not have heard about it, get shot, then log out.

Jita would be choked with bored shooters instead of traders that day, that's about the only difference.

Dyphorus
Posted - 2010.02.01 18:50:00 - [59]
 

I agree it would kill the game. Massive exodus to start with, with things eventually settling down similar to 0.0 Sov.

For any hope of keeping newer players in the game, even if they're primarily interested in PvP, high-sec needs to exist. A safe(ish) place to learn the ropes, generate some income, etc...

There are also a lot of PvPers that don't realize we need the carebears more than they need us. They do a lot of the mundane work for us. Farming missions for all those meta items we blow up, manufacturing, hauling. There would be many a sad PvPer without the trade hubs supported, to a large degree, by carebears.



Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.02.01 18:52:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Zeba on 01/02/2010 18:52:27
Quote:
How about turning all of eve into 1.0 security for a day.

Call it, "CareBear Day"
Ohhh concord hotdropping on a fleet fight. Imagine the tears and rage from that.. Provided of course the node didn't crash. Razz


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