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sasuk
Gallente
New Eden Construction Holdings
Posted - 2010.01.31 21:12:00 - [31]
 

signed.YARRRR!!

Ravinus Brown
Gallente
Blue Republic
Posted - 2010.01.31 21:14:00 - [32]
 

signed.

Haks'he Lirky
Durgarnir
Posted - 2010.01.31 21:19:00 - [33]
 

Dust 514 is being done by a console team in China, do not see how they could possibly combat the lag.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2010.01.31 21:22:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Haks'he Lirky
Dust 514 is being done by a console team in China, do not see how they could possibly combat the lag.


This is a nonsense, armchair programmer, emo knee jerk response thread. Don't confuse them with the facts.

Rhaetic
Black Ice Consortium
Posted - 2010.01.31 21:30:00 - [35]
 

/not signed.

Why? Because I'm 100% positive that the graphics designers, artists, and content design team can do absolutely nothing to help the server and network team with the combat lag problem.

This is similar to how I don't tell the interface designers or webmasters to stop everything they are doing when I have a file server go down at work.

If you signed this petition... don't run an Information Systems or Technology Development company until you get a better education.

Fifinella
Caldari
Nosferatu Security Foundation
Posted - 2010.01.31 21:34:00 - [36]
 

I don't know, it might be quite amusing to see, say, the graphics designers combating lag. No idea how they'd do it, though, maybe draw faster?

Veldsparmonster
Posted - 2010.01.31 21:43:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Fifinella
I don't know, it might be quite amusing to see, say, the graphics designers combating lag. No idea how they'd do it, though, maybe draw faster?


Reduce all graphics to squares? ugh

To tell you the truth, I think we leave the server mangement to CCP, and just play the game.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHY CCP WOULDN'T TRY TO FIX THE LAG!!!

Just remember that people.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.01.31 21:51:00 - [38]
 

What is this for BS that graphics designers couldnt combat lag. Serious think out of the box for a change. Needs some modifications, but i am sure we could replace hamsters with graphics designers. Granted costs more space, but they should be able to run faster than hamsters.

Mari Seles
Posted - 2010.01.31 21:55:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
What is this for BS that graphics designers couldnt combat lag. Serious think out of the box for a change. Needs some modifications, but i am sure we could replace hamsters with graphics designers. Granted costs more space, but they should be able to run faster than hamsters.


True, but you have a thousand hamsters... and how many grafic designers? 10-20? (I think that's extremely optimistic)

So eve if the designers run faster they can only replace 200 hamsters. So you lose performance.

So any other ideas?

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.01.31 22:10:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Mari Seles
Originally by: Furb Killer
What is this for BS that graphics designers couldnt combat lag. Serious think out of the box for a change. Needs some modifications, but i am sure we could replace hamsters with graphics designers. Granted costs more space, but they should be able to run faster than hamsters.


True, but you have a thousand hamsters... and how many grafic designers? 10-20? (I think that's extremely optimistic)

So eve if the designers run faster they can only replace 200 hamsters. So you lose performance.

So any other ideas?
Hrmmm, well as all the devs apparently love their bree a generator that uses methane as a fuel might be viable. Collection might be a bit tricky though. Razz

CryptorsChild
Trojan Trolls
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2010.01.31 22:57:00 - [41]
 

It's just not the fights. I mean it takes like 1 hour to jump 8 systems with one third of your fleet. It's absurd.

Galius Zed
Posted - 2010.02.01 00:02:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Vossejongk
Originally by: xiqx
Originally by: Vossejongk
The team developing Dust is an external one to the ones developing EVE.

Get your facts straight before you post something that makes you look ******ed.


And that team doesn't cost money??????


Sure does but do you think letting 200 people working on the eve code will be efficient? Everyone will just walk in front of each others feet.



Welp, I've been working for almost two years under a strict version control system and seven of us can all be working/compiling on a single site having ~250k lines, without any problem. This along with CCP using the Agile dev concept, I don't see any reason why there aren't "animated" exotic dancers by now! It's been a long time since CCP brought all 300+ into the EVE group.

Adobe, Apple and other large companies like Google all divide up large projects very effectively....at least when the project manager does their job properly :)


/thread

Seth Ruin
Minmatar
Ominous Corp
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2010.02.01 01:58:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: xiqx
Edited by: xiqx on 31/01/2010 18:58:12
Edited by: xiqx on 31/01/2010 18:56:00
Hi

sign this post with you characters if you think the following as well:

CCP shouls stop momentarilly all side projects until lag is fixed:
No more pretty planets
No dust
No walking in stations

Yes someday I woud love to have / do those things as well but now first: the lag issues.

(btw the ref node is a nice idea but doesn't solve everything just yet)

All resources should go to rewriting the code to support loadballancing on the servers.

Next extra server capacity!


Let me ask you something: How long does it take you to pour a glass of water? Let's say 30 seconds.

If I get 30 guys together, do you think we can pour that glass of water in 1 second?

Sometimes throwing "more" at a solution doesn't make it any faster, but instead just more expensive.

Igus
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2010.02.01 01:59:00 - [44]
 

signed,

I have no doubt CCP is working on this issue with the level of attention they think it deserves.

but :) pulling a 100vs100 in Jita for a few weeks might help CCP with the problem. With all the extra log information that would be generated CCP would have plenty of information to help them out. Even though Jita currently always has about 1000 players; they are all docked up. If a few moderate size groups would to start fighting in system well that would provide the perfect information CCP needs.

d3vo
Posted - 2010.02.01 02:10:00 - [45]
 

I'm sure they got a lot of people working on this issue. Neutral

mechtech
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2010.02.01 02:21:00 - [46]
 

Yes, they should get mission writers, artists, and game designers into the net code ASAP.

The artists can make pretty ASCII images, while the mission writers can use "goto" commands to make fun flipbook minigames.

95% of the people working at CCP can't help with lag. Maybe they need to hire a few more coders specialized in net code and efficiency (but remember that CCP uses stackless python, which most people have no experience with, as well as the sheer challenge of jumping into millions of lines of an established mmo that has code a decade old).

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.02.01 02:26:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: mechtech
Yes, they should get mission writers, artists, and game designers into the net code ASAP.

The artists can make pretty ASCII images, while the mission writers can use "goto" commands to make fun flipbook minigames.

95% of the people working at CCP can't help with lag. Maybe they need to hire a few more coders specialized in net code and efficiency (but remember that CCP uses stackless python, which most people have no experience with, as well as the sheer challenge of jumping into millions of lines of an established mmo that has code a decade old).


We do not appreciate your tossing of "facts" and "logic" into our "ignorance" and "flames". Please abstain in the future.

-Liang

Bowlo Cheeba
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.02.01 03:31:00 - [48]
 

/signed in another useless post about "fixing the lag"

Still waiting for First Contact so we can get our hands on some Vulcan or Borg technology, and become capable of making the computer you guys seem to think will handle all this.



Instead, how about asking for more realistic things like some hard cap number on fleet fights. And btw, all you ppl who keep saying "the limit of ppl in a system is too easily exploitable, waa waa", I don't beleive it is, and I think its at least workable to the point of becoming playable, so maybe let's discuss that instead of ramming into the same brick wall again.


Or, just start with some way of enjoying a pvp fight from beginning to end, without unplayable lag.


Or do you enjoy when 99% of ppl involved get booted to their character screen, followed by an hour (or day or week or month) of not being able to log in, followed by you appearing in a station in your pod, and a "sorry about your luck" email in your inbox?

And then after that, one side gets to sloooowwwly log in first, and then blows up the other side one ship at a time, and when that's all over, you pretend like that was the same as winning the fleet fight?


I understand that's what we all want to happen, but it isn't possible atm, so let's concentrate on something we can actually have fun playing. Smile

Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.02.01 04:36:00 - [49]
 

The same people who claim they will ragequit and never again play EVE if it were ever sharded are the ones who come here and demand instant solutions to the lag issue.

If the game is going to be a single shard, then there is always going to be lag.

CCP could double the amount of servers they have and 1,000 vs 1,000 fleet fights wouldn't lag at all... and then people would simply bring 2,000 people per side. The only solution to the lag situation lies with the players.

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.02.01 04:57:00 - [50]
 

<sarcasm>Yes, because texture artists, 3D modelers, game designers, and people thousands of miles away in Shanghai developing a separate console FPSMMO will totally help improve lag if they drop what they're doing now.</sarcasm>

Maybe you should train Thinking Before Posting to at least I?

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2010.02.01 06:21:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: xiqx


All resources should go to rewriting the code to support loadballancing on the servers.

Next extra server capacity!


infiniband?

Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2010.02.01 06:32:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Bowlo Cheeba
Instead, how about asking for more realistic things like some hard cap number on fleet fights. And btw, all you ppl who keep saying "the limit of ppl in a system is too easily exploitable, waa waa", I don't beleive it is, and I think its at least workable to the point of becoming playable, so maybe let's discuss that instead of ramming into the same brick wall again.



believe it or not, it most definitely is exploitable. If the system cap is 1000 and your side stuffs 800-900 people in there, guess who wins? You can't cap the system by 'side', as the server has no way of knowing what a 'side' is; the entire idea is useless

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2010.02.01 08:47:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
The same people who claim they will ragequit and never again play EVE if it were ever sharded are the ones who come here and demand instant solutions to the lag issue.

If the game is going to be a single shard, then there is always going to be lag.

CCP could double the amount of servers they have and 1,000 vs 1,000 fleet fights wouldn't lag at all... and then people would simply bring 2,000 people per side. The only solution to the lag situation lies with the players.


Since when did seven years of requesting fix for lag become demanding "instant solutions"?

Mam Hlad
Posted - 2010.02.01 08:52:00 - [54]
 

signed Razz

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2010.02.01 09:14:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Bowlo Cheeba
Instead, how about asking for more realistic things like some hard cap number on fleet fights. And btw, all you ppl who keep saying "the limit of ppl in a system is too easily exploitable, waa waa", I don't beleive it is, and I think its at least workable to the point of becoming playable, so maybe let's discuss that instead of ramming into the same brick wall again.



believe it or not, it most definitely is exploitable. If the system cap is 1000 and your side stuffs 800-900 people in there, guess who wins? You can't cap the system by 'side', as the server has no way of knowing what a 'side' is; the entire idea is useless


I agree with Chaos. Capping the number of people in system is obviously the way to go, but the possibilities of exploiting the system means all sov warfare would cease if a way was found which would be a disaster.

You could make it so that once a TCU enters reinforced, it starts a cap of 500 pilots on the attacking alliance (most damage done on the TCU) vs 500 on the defenders alliance (ownership of TCU). Cap it so a max of 50 pilots on all other alliances so that strong alliances have an advantage over blobbing coalitions of failures. I'm sure someone could think of a way to exploit that somehow.

CCP tried capping systems before but it wasn't fair and the backlash was pretty brutal, but I think its worth CCP giving it another look. They can try to "fix" lag, but it will never happen. Coalitions these days will just fill in more and more people until the servers break again, used to be 500 in system was huge, now it is 1500+. CCP needs to rework sov so it isn't focused around one objective at one point in time.

Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.02.01 11:25:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
The same people who claim they will ragequit and never again play EVE if it were ever sharded are the ones who come here and demand instant solutions to the lag issue.

If the game is going to be a single shard, then there is always going to be lag.

CCP could double the amount of servers they have and 1,000 vs 1,000 fleet fights wouldn't lag at all... and then people would simply bring 2,000 people per side. The only solution to the lag situation lies with the players.


Since when did seven years of requesting fix for lag become demanding "instant solutions"?


You're missing the point. The OP is requesting an instant solution... which will never happen unless CCP does something like put arbitrary limits on the amount of people in any given solar system.

The only people who can control lag in the game, for seven years straight, are the players.

So in the end it's a catch-22 situation. The game is designed around blobbing, because "he with the most friends will always win", blobbing leads to lag, lag leads to CCP putting more servers online and optimizing settings, which leads to people bringing more people to a fight, which leads to more blobbing, which leads to lag... and over and over and over.

This can never change. It's up to the players to change it by agreeing on the size of fights before hand... which will never happen because eHonor doesn't exist and one side will simply log off a few hundred friends in system and log them on if it looks like their pre arranged fight is going to be a loss.

In short, there's no good solution. CCP dug themselves into a big hole with this issue by encouraging blobbing every patch along the way. Especially with the horribly botched Need for Speed nerfs. Now everyone has no choice but to sit a few meters away and pound on each other until ships start sploding, which means you need more friends on your side to make sure your ships splode slower and theirs splode faster... voila more blobbing... more lag.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.02.01 11:26:00 - [57]
 

I hear 9 women can make 1 baby in 1 month c/d?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.02.01 11:40:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
I hear 9 women can make 1 baby in 1 month c/d?
C, but the sheer amount of pickled cucumber and carrot ice cream you have to feed them makes it nigh-on impossible in practice.

Jawas
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.01 15:52:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Jawas on 01/02/2010 15:53:51
Originally by: Veldsparmonster
Originally by: Fifinella
I don't know, it might be quite amusing to see, say, the graphics designers combating lag. No idea how they'd do it, though, maybe draw faster?


Reduce all graphics to squares? ugh

To tell you the truth, I think we leave the server mangement to CCP, and just play the game.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHY CCP WOULDN'T TRY TO FIX THE LAG!!!

Just remember that people.

^this

It's all down to basic math. A processor can execute X commands a second, you can't make it process X+Y

If you want no lag in the game, get on your design boards and build a better processor.

Edit: Alternatively try fighting with smaller fleets. Small skirmishes rather than large fleet movements.

Magnus Nordir
Caldari
Nordir Industries
Posted - 2010.02.01 17:41:00 - [60]
 

Yes, CCP should immediately send their management, artist, content producers, client-side programmers and secretaries to work on server-side net code to appease the minority of the playerbase who live in 0.0 and are unable to play any other way than in 1000 man blobs.

Makes perfect sense.


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