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blankseplocked Shield tanking skills
 
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Colran
Posted - 2010.01.31 13:31:00 - [1]
 

I'm going to be getting into a Nightmare fairly soon here, for doing sansha's 0.0 anoms, and I need some help sorting out the shield tanking skills I should have before taking it out.

Up until now the character I'm using has been flying armor tanked ships, only shield tanking on something like snipe hacs which obviously is a different game altogether to pve tanking.

Using a tech-2 fitted nightmare fit from battleclinic as a template, I've come up with these skills to train before taking one out:

Tactical Shield Manipulation IV
Shield Operation V
Shield Management IV

It will be a active tanked ship so shield compensation skills wont come into it, and I'll be using a CN shield booster instead of a shield booster II, thus avoiding having to train shield management to V.

So, what am I missing? I really have no experience with shield tanking, so if anyone could shed some light to the situation, I'd greatly appreciate it.



Mugster
Posted - 2010.01.31 14:51:00 - [2]
 

Shield Compensation to reduce cap usage of your booster. CN booster uses cap 20% faster than LSB II, so depending on your other energy skills/fit, train it to 4 or 5.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.01.31 14:55:00 - [3]
 

Shield Compensation will reduce your cap use 2%/level. Get it to 4 ASAP, then eventually 5, just as you should train Controlled Bursts 5 for your lasers.

Other than that, you're pretty much here. As you say, there's no real need to learn the ~damage type~ Compensation skills unless you plan to use a resist amp of some kind, which I would advise against. In theory they're useful if you get neuted to the point your active hardeners shut down, but if this happens when you're in an active tanking ship then you're boned in any case.

PS At some point, train up Shield Management 5. More hit points are always nice.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.01.31 18:07:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
PS At some point, train up Shield Management 5. More hit points are always nice.

Keep in mind that 5% more shield is 20% more EHP at 75% shield resists. Shield Management is a very worthwhile skill to train.


Yarinor
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2010.01.31 22:21:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Originally by: Malcanis
PS At some point, train up Shield Management 5. More hit points are always nice.

Keep in mind that 5% more shield is 20% more EHP at 75% shield resists. Shield Management is a very worthwhile skill to train.



No it's not.
No matter how you put it energy Management from IV to V will NEVER be able to increase EHP by more than 4.17%

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2010.02.01 05:00:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Yarinor
No matter how you put it energy Management from IV to V will NEVER be able to increase EHP by more than 4.17%

First it is Shield Management, not energy. Second, please explain where I went wrong in the math:

5% / (1 - 75%) = 20%

75% resists means you take 25% damage, so it takes 4 times more damage on the same amount of shield.

Thanks.


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.02.01 13:52:00 - [7]
 

Shield Management from L4 to L5 is always a 1.25/1.2 -> +4.166(6)% increase in shield HP compared to L4.
It is indeed +5% of the base, but not compared to how much you had at L4.

The resists are already factored into your existing EHP, so if your ship ONLY has shields, the best you can get from a X% increase in raw HP is the same X% increase in EHP.
True, if you compare that to the no-skills, before-resists value, then yeah, it's a higher increase, but still.

So a +4.16% increase in raw HP is also at most a +4.16% increase in EHP compared to your previous EHP value (actually, a +4.16% increase in shield EHP), at L5 compared to L4.
___

Numbers ?
Say your ship has RAW HP of 1000 hull, 900 armor and 2000 shield base, you use no damage control and we consider explosive resist of armor at 10% (armor exp EHP = 1000), and with hardeners you have 75% explosive resists (*4 EHP vs raw HP), and you get hit by incoming explosive damage. Say you only have L4 shield management right now, nothing else to affect hull/armor.
1k EHP hull + 1k EHP armor + (2000*1.2*4 =) 9600 EHP shield = 11.6k EHP total.
Train L5 and you get...
1k EHP hull + 1k EHP armor + (2000*1.25*4 =) 10k EHP shield = 12k EHP total.

Now, I don't know about you, but 12k/11.6k = 1.03448(etc) in my book, or not even a +3.5% EHP compared to the amounts before you trained L5.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.02.01 14:35:00 - [8]
 

It's still worth training, if only because T2 boost amps are vastly cheaper than even meta 4.

Omnigord
Posted - 2010.02.01 14:51:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Omnigord on 01/02/2010 15:04:03
Edited by: Omnigord on 01/02/2010 14:50:55
T2 boost amps are cheaper than meta 4 because meta 4 takes less CPU.

The skill for T2 Shield Boosters is Shield Op 5, not Shield Management 5.

Shield Management 5 is for boost amps.

Edit: Also, I'm curious why you are choosing a nightmare for sanshas instead of an Armageddon Imperial Issue.

Colran
Posted - 2010.02.01 18:56:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Colran on 01/02/2010 23:47:45
Edited by: Colran on 01/02/2010 18:59:58
Originally by: Omnigord
Edited by: Omnigord on 01/02/2010 15:04:03
Edited by: Omnigord on 01/02/2010 14:50:55
T2 boost amps are cheaper than meta 4 because meta 4 takes less CPU.

The skill for T2 Shield Boosters is Shield Op 5, not Shield Management 5.

Shield Management 5 is for boost amps.

Edit: Also, I'm curious why you are choosing a nightmare for sanshas instead of an Armageddon Imperial Issue.


Well, as far as I've seen the Nighmare does out-dps a armageddon, althou if it does not, please post a fit I'd love to save training time by not having to train up shield tanking skills. The main reason why a shield tanking ship is good in pve is because you can have both a great tank and a great dps since low slots aren't used on tank unlike in armor repping ships.

Anyways, thanks for all the info guys, if anything else comes up please post it, I'm always looking for more info.

______________________________edit__________________________

Also, ye I meant shield boost amps on the original post, since Shield Management is a rank 3 skill, and since the module has more boost increase and saves me the training time, its worthwhile for me to get it because I can easily grind the isk for the CN boost amp in the time it would take me to train shield man to V.


 

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