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Lantay77B
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:01:00 - [1]
 

I recently read about a scandal that happened back in 2007, a developer CCP t20 cheated and gave an alliance tech 2 BPO's. Kugut-sumen (filtered without the "-", seems that CCP is still trying to cover something up) hacked the alliance's forums and found out about it.

The article can be found here:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/847-Jumpgate-EVEs-Devs-and-the-Friends-They-Keep


I still have some unexplained questions about the situation though, is t20 still employed and if yes, why?
What is CCP doing now to ensure this won't happen anymore? Or is it happening and people just do not know it?

Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Global Economy Experts
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:02:00 - [2]
 

Wow, from 2007. Bad troll? Bad necro? Or really just behind on the news?

Lantay77B
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:07:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Dretzle Omega
Wow, from 2007. Bad troll? Bad necro? Or really just behind on the news?


I am not trolling. I am new to eve since 2009 and cannot find information on what happened to prevent this sort of thing from happening. It concerns me. So yes, behind on the news.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:09:00 - [4]
 

Internal affairs exist now. Do a forum search, tons of crap about this there.

SupaKudoRio
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:10:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 28/01/2010 18:10:54
IBTL

Old news. Too bad no one will forget. Wink No idea if t20 is still around, but tbh there's nothing anyone can do to stop things like that from happening; or more like want to, since it results in an instant ban for whoever does the stitching... apparently. More likely it was 'payback' though, I reckon. Laughing

Lord Windu
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:11:00 - [6]
 

T20 got fired, CCP clamped down on staff and ensured that they can and are monitored, they also implemented the CSM which part of their role is to make sure future incidents are dealt with appropriately.

And, old news is old. No cover ups or crap like that...

DJ Obsidian
RONA Legion
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:13:00 - [7]
 

In this case, the logs show something.


CCP player chars are heavily monitored and iirc only csm members have been allowed to know who the ccp player chars are, at least csm 1.

Of course i could be wrong.

Lantay77B
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:15:00 - [8]
 

Ok, so the new department internal affairs monitors developer activity to prevent this. I understand more now.

The only thing I am wondering is why the person who uncovered it kgut* is still filtered out. CCP just left their filters this way after the Goons flooded the forums with it most likely?

Seth Ruin
Minmatar
Ominous Corp
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:15:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Lord Windu
T20 got fired
Source? Last I remembered hearing about the whole ordeal, T20 gave his whole "I'm sorry" speech and CCP acted like everything was hunky-dory.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:23:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Lord Windu
T20 got fired
Source? Last I remembered hearing about the whole ordeal, T20 gave his whole "I'm sorry" speech and CCP acted like everything was hunky-dory.

He might not have been fired. But it takes less than 5 minutes of research to find that T20 is no longer with CCP.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:26:00 - [11]
 

Oh god not this again. Now that all the emo and rage have past does anyone truely think that the dozen odd t2 ammo bpo's along with the sabre bpo and I think some random assualt frigate bpo that t20 used as a cover to get in the alliance had any realistic impact on any nullsec outcome? Oh Please.. CCP wanted to get devs into the bigger alliances to get a hands on feel for what goes on so they could evolve the game accourdingly. Hence dev alt applicants who 'just won' the t2 lottery were used as a way to make it easier to get in. What amused me then and amuses me now is why noone ever asked who the devs in the other alliances were and moar importantly are they still there? Wink

Areo Hotah
Paxton Industries
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:30:00 - [12]
 

The side effect now is that we don't have a single Dev who is actively playing Eve. So CCP either recruit old veterans, which have some decent ideas, but probably slowly loose contact with the-day-to-day reality of the game, and we have spread-sheet warriors who have never played beyond the tutorial, that give examples of stupid Vagabond fits to justify nano nerfs, and balance dreads around target-painted targets.

Doc Fury
Caldari
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:32:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Lord Windu
T20 got fired
Source? Last I remembered hearing about the whole ordeal, T20 gave his whole "I'm sorry" speech and CCP acted like everything was hunky-dory.

He might not have been fired. But it takes less than 5 minutes of research to find that T20 is no longer with CCP.


^This. T20 "moved on" to another opportunity quite a while after the whole sordid affair. He was not fired. There are plenty of google-able things out there you can read on this subject, or hit up a Bitter Vet™ ingame for details.


/IBTL

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:33:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Lantay77B
Ok, so the new department internal affairs monitors developer activity to prevent this. I understand more now.

The only thing I am wondering is why the person who uncovered it kgut* is still filtered out. CCP just left their filters this way after the Goons flooded the forums with it most likely?

Troling Goon alt spotted.

If you are so "clueless" about what happened, how do you know about the goon threadnaughts?

Lantay77B
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:38:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Lantay77B on 28/01/2010 18:41:58
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Lantay77B
Ok, so the new department internal affairs monitors developer activity to prevent this. I understand more now.

The only thing I am wondering is why the person who uncovered it kgut* is still filtered out. CCP just left their filters this way after the Goons flooded the forums with it most likely?

Troling Goon alt spotted.

If you are so "clueless" about what happened, how do you know about the goon threadnaughts?


FFS, I know about it because it's in the article I linked. I read it last night. This is my highest SP character, my characters are lantay77, lantay77B, and lantay77C. I'm new to eve and never been in an alliance yet.

All of my questions have been answered thanks to the helpful people who posted. I do not know why people have to accuse me of trolling. I was just wondering about this event that happened in the game.

Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:42:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Lantay77B
... my characters are lantay77, lantay77B, and lantay77C. I'm new to eve and never been in an alliance yet.


Wouldn't it have made more sense to call your characters:
Lantay77
Lantay77A
Lantay77B

??

Lantay77B
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:45:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Jill Xelitras
Originally by: Lantay77B
... my characters are lantay77, lantay77B, and lantay77C. I'm new to eve and never been in an alliance yet.


Wouldn't it have made more sense to call your characters:
Lantay77
Lantay77A
Lantay77B

??


It would have made more sense to me to call them

Lantay77A
Lantay77B
Lantay77C

but I started months ago and made Lantay77 and played on him for a month, then i took a break and didn't play for almost 6 months and I came back when I got a 5 day free reactivation in december and made Lantay77B, which is my main character now.

000Hunter000
Gallente
Missiles 'R' Us
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:48:00 - [18]
 

It was a bad bad time, but atleast it has been put behind us and we really should move on.

CCP has implemented certain means so this should not happen again, we can only hope they work and ccp will keep to their promisses.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2010.01.28 18:50:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Lantay77B
I recently read about a scandal that happened back in 2007, a developer CCP t20 cheated and gave an alliance tech 2 BPO's. Kugut-sumen (filtered without the "-", seems that CCP is still trying to cover something up) hacked the alliance's forums and found out about it.



I'm shaky on the details, but he essentially ****ed off a lot of people in CCP. He also exposed t20 by illegal means, probably broke a couple dozen different rules in the EULA, not to mention he actively engaged in anti-CCP activity. CCP was angry, and these forums are CCP property and as such do not qualify for free speech protections. As deplorable as some people may find it, CCP censored him. This issue is quite old, and most players don't care about it anymore. CCP can't be bothered to remove his name from the bad word list.

Quote:

The article can be found here:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/847-Jumpgate-EVEs-Devs-and-the-Friends-They-Keep


I still have some unexplained questions about the situation though, is t20 still employed and if yes, why?


At the time, t20 was NOT fired. It has been speculated that this is because of contractual reasons - IE, CCP could only fire t20 for certain reasons, and cheating within EVE Online was not one of them. Because CCP exists in Iceland, if CCP violated their contract by firing t20, t20 could have sued CCP.

Quote:

What is CCP doing now to ensure this won't happen anymore? Or is it happening and people just do not know it?

CCP introduced Internal Affairs, which keeps a very close eye on the activities of all CCP employees and volunteers such as ISD in game (and IIRC, also the CSM). I seem to recall that Internal Affairs has caught people cheating, or taking advantage of internal knowledge on a few other occasions (a GM and a CSM, I believe).

Thuul'Khalat
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.01.28 19:04:00 - [20]
 

What a lot of people seem to forget, or conveniently ignore, in regards to Kugut is the fact that he committed RL crimes when uncovering stuff. A ban was clearly in order, as the end does not always justify the means.

khendro
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.01.28 19:14:00 - [21]
 

t20 currently works at Realtime Worlds, developer of the Xbox 360 game Crackdown and the MMO APB for PC.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2010.01.28 19:21:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Thuul'Khalat
What a lot of people seem to forget, or conveniently ignore, in regards to Kugut is the fact that he committed RL crimes when uncovering stuff. A ban was clearly in order, as the end does not always justify the means.


IIRC, technically the things that he did were not crimes in the country where he lives. Hence the reason why nobody was able to take legal action against him. The only recourse that CCP had was to ban him and censor him.

Gladys Pank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
Posted - 2010.01.28 19:22:00 - [23]
 

hackers, crackzorz and ph-ph-phone phrrrrreaking in my eve?

Was a bad move on the devs side but CCP on the whole did what they could to ensure this stuff doesn't happen again.

It's old man... let it die, or just google it; ain't too difficult.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.01.28 19:28:00 - [24]
 

*shoots the dead horse*

And stay down!

Gertrud ToD
Terrorists of Dimensions
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2010.01.28 19:33:00 - [25]
 

t20 quit his job with ccp last year (or was it '08?) and is now working for some other MMO, which was/is released this quarter

Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.01.28 20:13:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Taedrin
IIRC, technically the things that he did were not crimes in the country where he lives. Hence the reason why nobody was able to take legal action against him. The only recourse that CCP had was to ban him and censor him.

It doesn't matter where he was. You can't murder someone, run back to your home country and then say 'Sorry, murder is not a crime here, can't arrest me.'

The only way that is relevant is whether or not his home country would be willing to extradite him or not.

No legal action was taken against him probably because it would likely just be far more trouble than it needed to be, and banning him was good enough.

McFly
Peanut Factory
Posted - 2010.01.28 20:20:00 - [27]
 

NO MORE NECRO T20 THREADS

Doc Fury
Caldari
Posted - 2010.01.28 20:21:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Usagi Tsukino
Originally by: Taedrin
IIRC, technically the things that he did were not crimes in the country where he lives. Hence the reason why nobody was able to take legal action against him. The only recourse that CCP had was to ban him and censor him.

It doesn't matter where he was. You can't murder someone, run back to your home country and then say 'Sorry, murder is not a crime here, can't arrest me.'

The only way that is relevant is whether or not his home country would be willing to extradite him or not.

No legal action was taken against him probably because it would likely just be far more trouble than it needed to be, and banning him was good enough.


It should be pointed out that the alleged "illegal acts" were not carried out against CCP, and thus CCP had no standing to take action other than to creatively use their EULA to ban the account in question for causing them undue embarrassment/PR work.



MsValentineWiggin
Posted - 2010.01.28 21:33:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: McFly
NO MORE NECRO T20 THREADS


Although since this came up today, one must be careful to not troll with "yes T20 is a CCP employee and wrote the code in Dominion for billing and collecting sovereignty payments."

SomebodyKickedMyDog
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.01.28 21:42:00 - [30]
 

hey guys. so what exactly happened here?


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