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b3amM3up Sc0tti3
Posted - 2010.01.27 07:06:00 - [1]
 

I have a confession to make. I cheated and bought ISK to shortcut getting into a capital ship (mistake number 1). But the real trouble started much earlier when I stupidly also bought power levelling for my character (mistake number 2) as I was too lazy to grind out level 1 and 2 missions for an NPC Corp I wanted standing in. I have a number of accounts, which all use the same password (mistake number 3). I started finding ships, ranging from Battleships to Tech 2 frigates and various ships in between as well as various Tech 1 and 2 items missing from the hanger and then found out from CCP that my accounts have been used to transfer ISK bought by other players. This resulted in all of my accounts being BANNED (and fair enough too). Additionally, I lost a combined 48 months of training with my characters as, ultimately, I was lazy!!!! I have nothing left now and my gaming experience has been ruined... Yes - it's all my own fault, I accept that. I have to start again now from scratch, which isn't such a bad thing as I can experience the rich eve experiences I robbed myself of.

So, I have written this to warn others contemplating buying power levelling or buying ISK from these internet ISK sellers and offer the following points:

1. NEVER EVER give your account details to anyone. This makes it way to easy for the hackers!!!!!!
2. Buying ISK, although may seem easy, lessens the EVE experience you would have gained by earning the ISK the correct way. You are robbing yourself of some great game play - so it may take a little longer to get there - that's part of the experience! At the end, you will have much greater satisfaction when you achiever your objective!!!
3. Power levelling is a prime way of giving your account details away and opening yourself up for illegal activity to be done on your account. If you don't want to grind out lvl 1 and 2 missions, find someone with lvl 4 mission access and fleet with them to get standing up quicker!!!! There are a lot of players out there more than happy to assist with missions.
4. Change your password regularly and don't make them simple. Using a combo of special characters, numbers and alphanumeric will make them harder to hack eg. !anC3rSp34r
5. Do not go to off-site weblinks unless you are absolutely sure of the website. There are so many keyloggers and account hacking tools out there now!!!
6. If you cheat, you will be caught!

There are a number of posts in this forum with similar stories. Heed the advice! These ISK sellers are trying to screw OUR game - don't let them!

I have certainly learnt my lesson the hard way. Lack of computer skills or ignorance are NO EXCUSE!!!

Thanks for reading. I have been an idiot!!! Embarassed

Ernest Borgnine
Posted - 2010.01.27 07:11:00 - [2]
 

Petitioned you ingame for exploiting, buying ISK and breaking the EULA.

It will probably be a couple of days before anyone reads it, if you send me 200 million ISK I will delete the petition.

Serpents smile
Posted - 2010.01.27 07:11:00 - [3]
 

Power leveling? Surprised

RJ Nobel
Nobel Research and Development
Posted - 2010.01.27 07:17:00 - [4]
 

Why, hello CCP employee! Obvious attempt at spinning "the only cause of hacked accounts is ISK sellers" is obvious. ugh

Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiau
Posted - 2010.01.27 07:34:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: RJ Nobel
Why, hello CCP employee! Obvious attempt at spinning "the only cause of hacked accounts is ISK sellers" is obvious. ugh


Why, hello ISK Seller! Obvious attempt at spinning "the cause of hacked accounts aren't ISK sellers" is obvious. ugh

GM Nova

Posted - 2010.01.27 10:36:00 - [6]
 

Thank you for sharing your bad experience with us. This is an interesting story because it is true. A vast majority of the ISK being sold is stolen off hacked accounts.

Buying ISK is the worst thing you can do in this game. It ruins your game experience, it ruins other people's game experience and deteriorates and corrupts our gameworld.

The road to riches, the means of gaining wealth can be an adventure which I am sure most players can relate to.

Yours,

GM Nova

Captain Thunk
Sniggerdly
Posted - 2010.01.27 11:02:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: GM Nova

Buying ISK is the worst thing you can do in this game. It ruins your game experience, it ruins other people's game experience and deteriorates and corrupts our gameworld.


I dunno, it's pretty hard to top Dominion

Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
Joint Venture Conglomerate
Posted - 2010.01.27 11:04:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Jackie Fisher on 27/01/2010 11:06:54
Originally by: GM Nova

Buying ISK is the worst thing you can do in this game. It ruins your game experience, it ruins other people's game experience and deteriorates and corrupts our gameworld.

Unless you do it via GTC sales in which case none of the above applies. Wink

Gavin Nordoff
Posted - 2010.01.27 11:15:00 - [9]
 

Is it wrong that I checked if GM posted 5 minutes after op?

Lo3d3R
Mos Eisley Social Club
Posted - 2010.01.27 11:45:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Lo3d3R on 27/01/2010 11:55:29


Originally by: GM Nova
Thank you for sharing your bad experience with us. This is an interesting story because it is true. A vast majority of the ISK being sold is stolen off hacked accounts.

Buying ISK is the worst thing you can do in this game. It ruins your game experience, it ruins other people's game experience and deteriorates and corrupts our gameworld.

The road to riches, the means of gaining wealth can be an adventure which I am sure most players can relate to.

Yours,

GM Nova


Ok so I geuss buying plex and then selling them in game is not the same as buying isk.(Rolling Eyes) Offcourse I am against any form of cheating but the whole plex thing seems simular as you are injecting reallife money directly in to the ingame economy.

Would love a reply on that.

ChrisDude70
The Night Crew
Posted - 2010.01.27 11:57:00 - [11]
 

Really, I think the point of PLEX are so that people who cant afford to pay with real money can still play.
CCP still gets money for it. And either way, a legit player has to spend hours in game to make the 300m to buy one.
So theres still work involved.

Although it does offer a better alternative to buying ISK for money anyway.

Lo3d3R
Mos Eisley Social Club
Posted - 2010.01.27 12:08:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Lo3d3R on 27/01/2010 12:23:39
Originally by: ChrisDude70
Really, I think the point of PLEX are so that people who cant afford to pay with real money can still play.
CCP still gets money for it. And either way, a legit player has to spend hours in game to make the 300m to buy one.
So theres still work involved.

Although it does offer a better alternative to buying ISK for money anyway.



Mmmyes and the ISK that ISK-sellers (in any form) are selling fell magicly from the sky. CCP should focus on botnetworks: macrominers/missioners that generate isk 'without' much effort in contrary to making 'bold' statements about economies beeing ruined etc. that do not apply when the buck swings their way.

^^

It's small matter of principal, and as no other I understand that the chimney must smoke in Iceland. So out of CCP's commercial point of view AND the point of view of a legit earning podpilot -you have my blessing-. But imo the moral highground that CCP is standing on, in relation to actual facts, is a bit muddy.


Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core
Posted - 2010.01.27 12:16:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: GM Nova

Buying ISK is the worst thing you can do in this game. It ruins your game experience, it ruins other people's game experience and deteriorates and corrupts our gameworld.

The road to riches, the means of gaining wealth can be an adventure which I am sure most players can relate to.

Yours,

GM Nova


This is pretty hypocritical considering CCP themselves provide a system to buy and sell isk via GTCs.

000Hunter000
Gallente
Missiles 'R' Us
Posted - 2010.01.27 12:24:00 - [14]
 

U want fast isk? Buy gtc's and sell those for isk... aka CCP's legalized isk buying scheme Rolling Eyes

Droog 1
Posted - 2010.01.27 12:35:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Captain Thunk
Originally by: GM Nova

Buying ISK is the worst thing you can do in this game. It ruins your game experience, it ruins other people's game experience and deteriorates and corrupts our gameworld.


I dunno, it's pretty hard to top Dominion


Laughing

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.01.27 12:46:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Lo3d3R
Edited by: Lo3d3R on 27/01/2010 12:23:39
Originally by: ChrisDude70
Really, I think the point of PLEX are so that people who cant afford to pay with real money can still play.
CCP still gets money for it. And either way, a legit player has to spend hours in game to make the 300m to buy one.
So theres still work involved.

Although it does offer a better alternative to buying ISK for money anyway.



Mmmyes and the ISK that ISK-sellers (in any form) are selling fell magicly from the sky. CCP should focus on botnetworks: macrominers/missioners that generate isk 'without' much effort in contrary to making 'bold' statements about economies beeing ruined etc. that do not apply when the buck swings their way.

^^

It's small matter of principal, and as no other I understand that the chimney must smoke in Iceland. So out of CCP's commercial point of view AND the point of view of a legit earning podpilot -you have my blessing-. But imo the moral highground that CCP is standing on, in relation to actual facts, is a bit muddy.




Their "muddy" moral high ground is roughly akin that that of a resteraunt owner who objects to other people selling his food in his premises, and then leaving the washing up for his staff to do. The owner is not a hypocrite for objecting to other people selling his food to his customers.

The game spoiling effect that Nova was referring to was people getting their accounts stolen and looted.

Droog 1
Posted - 2010.01.27 12:51:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: GM Nova

The road to riches, the means of gaining wealth can be an adventure which I am sure most players can relate to.


Players can get rich without playing Eve through selling PLEX. It's hardly an adventure and it doesn't encourage people to log in and play the game.(The exact same reason CCP gave for not wanting to implement a skill queue)

Stop selling PLEX.

Insa Rexion
Minmatar
Fumar Puede Matar
Posted - 2010.01.27 12:54:00 - [18]
 

wtf is power leveling ?

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.01.27 12:54:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Captain Thunk
Originally by: GM Nova

Buying ISK is the worst thing you can do in this game. It ruins your game experience, it ruins other people's game experience and deteriorates and corrupts our gameworld.


I dunno, it's pretty hard to top Dominion

We got a winner Cool

Rhaetic
Black Ice Consortium
Posted - 2010.01.27 12:55:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: 000Hunter000
U want fast isk? Buy gtc's and sell those for isk... aka CCP's legalized isk buying scheme Rolling Eyes


Except CCP is not hacking accounts to strip them, nor stealing credit card information to make illegitimate purchases, nor spamming in-game chat with advertisements, nor macro-mining to generate ISK to sell, etc.

VannyDaCruz
Posted - 2010.01.27 13:00:00 - [21]
 

One must realize when you sell GTC you invest real money to get in game money.
When you buy ISK from an illegal ISK seller, you give money to someone who has most likely illegitimately made that ISK through botting or hacking.

Also keep in my the most important part, the GTC system allows all real world money that come into EVE to stay in EVE. That money will not be leaked out of the system. And the GTC system allow those without the ability to pay, to play, and those with the ability to pay to play more. All in all, the amount of money CCP makes is the SAME per subscriber, with the added bonus that more accounts will be subscribed with this system.

Buyer wins in that they can play the game
Seller wins in that they get ISKIES
CCP wins in that they make more money

Whats not to like?
Its socialism in action

Morphisat
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2010.01.27 13:02:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Captain Thunk
Originally by: GM Nova

Buying ISK is the worst thing you can do in this game. It ruins your game experience, it ruins other people's game experience and deteriorates and corrupts our gameworld.


I dunno, it's pretty hard to top Dominion


Haha, that's a good one !

Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2010.01.27 13:03:00 - [23]
 

There is not much of a difference between people buying ISK with real money and the legal method of buying ISK with subscription time, when it comes to the people buying the ISK. But on the other end, with the people selling the ISK, it's very different.

If you can sell your ISK for actual money, the only thing limiting you in how much ISK you farm in order to sell, is the time and effort you can put in to make the ISK. If you can only buy subscription time with it, there is a limit to how much ISK a player would want to sell. There is no incentive for someone to set up a company and employ a bunch of people to farm ISK all day just to buy GTCs with them.

Giving people a legal way of buying ISK like that limits the harm done to the game, and makes it possible for some people, who otherwise may not have been able to subscribe, to play.

Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2010.01.27 13:10:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: VannyDaCruz

Whats not to like?
Its socialism in action


On the contrary, it's capitalism at its best. Smile

Markesian
Posted - 2010.01.27 13:28:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Captain Thunk
I dunno, it's pretty hard to top Dominion


it's funny cause its true!

VannyDaCruz
Posted - 2010.01.27 13:28:00 - [26]
 

Socialism:
Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Centralized government CCP, collectively owns the means of producing GTCs and ISKs.

Capitalism:
an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth

Private Individuals being players, with the ability to inject real life money into the system


Without going into economy, politics and all that, it works in both ways and looks like a pretty nice utopia eh?
Makes me wonder if a double currency system with a transaction currency (GTC) would work in real life... Real life money being earned for jobs and GTCs act as a living-basic like if you run out of GTCs you are filed for bankruptcy, and ISKs are for all purchasing purposes of luxury goods...
Would it work? Probably not. Pretty cool concept though.
Sorry for the thread hi-jacking

Toodles o7

Swiftgaze
Elysium Trading Company
Posted - 2010.01.27 13:32:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Swiftgaze on 27/01/2010 13:39:05

Seriously CCP, next time just give me 1 bn and I'll write you a troll posting that your grandchildren can still be proud of.

I mean, not like I'd need it. Because I'm rich. Filthy rich. As rich as the ****s!

Originally by: VannyDaCruz
Socialism:
Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Centralized government CCP, collectively owns the means of producing GTCs and ISKs.



Oh. Damn. I'm in a socialist country then and never noticed.

Homework for VannyDaCruz: Find out the difference between "socialism" and "capitalism" and put them into relation to "planned economy" and "free economy".

GM Horse

Posted - 2010.01.27 13:39:00 - [28]
 

There appears to be some confusion in this thread regarding the effects of purchasing ISK from RMTers, and claims that selling ETC/PLEX has a similar effect, as well as confusion over the reasons why RMT is banned.

When a PLEX is sold, the ISK comes from another player who gained it through his own gameplay. No ISK is added to the economy; It is merely moved around. The net effect on the game's integrity and health is a net benefit - A player which might otherwise not have subscribed to EVE Online can play the game using his bought PLEX.

Purchasing ISK from a RMTer, however, supports ratting and mining bots, account hackers, credit card fraudsters and other extremely undesirable elements which have a very large negative impact on the game. A large quantity of ISK is injected into the economy, as macro ratters and mission runners create vast quantities of ISK out of thin air.

Please see Lead GM Grimmi's Unholy Rage blog for more details - Server load dropped by 30% after unholy rage, despite the fact that we only banned 2% of the game's accounts. RMT affects all players in EVE Online negatively; These people will use any and all methods they can to acquire ISK with which to sell, and do not care a single iota about EVE Online, or you, the players.

Swiftgaze
Elysium Trading Company
Posted - 2010.01.27 13:45:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Swiftgaze on 27/01/2010 14:00:43

Originally by: GM Horse
There appears to be some confusion in this thread regarding the effects of purchasing ISK from RMTers, and claims that selling ETC/PLEX has a similar effect, as well as confusion over the reasons why RMT is banned.

When a PLEX is sold, the ISK comes from another player who gained it through his own gameplay. No ISK is added to the economy; It is merely moved around. The net effect on the game's integrity and health is a net benefit - A player which might otherwise not have subscribed to EVE Online can play the game using his bought PLEX.



When buying ISK from RMT, no ISK gets created. It gets shifted from the ISK seller to you. A player that might otherwise not be able to buy his jump freighter can do it using his bought ISK, instead of a PLEX that he then turns into ISK.

Originally by: GM Horse

Purchasing ISK from a RMTer, however, supports ratting and mining bots, account hackers, credit card fraudsters and other extremely undesirable elements which have a very large negative impact on the game. A large quantity of ISK is injected into the economy, as macro ratters and mission runners create vast quantities of ISK out of thin air.



Grammatically, that paragraph is a comparison, but not its content. The only credit card fraudsters I've ever heard of in this game were when you charged people 4 or 5 times for the same month and didn't react for weeks, account hacking has to do with people giving away their passwords, and nothing gets created "out of thin air".

I used to have a dude in my alliance who mined with 8 characters, the only difference between him and a macro bot was the material that he was made of. (In this case, human flesh.)

The PLEX system encourages tenthousands of kids to play 23/7 just to get enough ISK for their game, that's prolly the major reason for people to play at all. Which leads to the next point:

Originally by: GM Horse

Please see Lead GM Grimmi's Unholy Rage blog for more details - Server load dropped by 30% after unholy rage, despite the fact that we only banned 2% of the game's accounts. RMT affects all players in EVE Online negatively; These people will use any and all methods they can to acquire ISK with which to sell, and do not care a single iota about EVE Online, or you, the players.


Server load could drop by 50% if you'd ban Dominion or PLEX, as implied above. :P

Just to clarify: ISK gets created "out of thin air" for PLEX in the same way that it does for RMT.
RMT may have lots of macros running instead of real players who mindlessly waste their life to be able to afford the next PLEX, but if you consider that unfair, then macros are your problem, not ISK sellers.

Unless of course, there's another reason why you constantly wave the ISK-seller-mocking-flag. Which could be that they don't create an income for CCP.

Which is entirely fine. You're a real company with real employees. But stop mistaking me for stoopid.

Scouteye
Locasta Tactical
Posted - 2010.01.27 13:54:00 - [30]
 

its just a shame that your still banning acounts/removing billions in ISK from players for RMT that are infact inoccent players with proof of where they acquired their ISK and then taking ages and ages to reply to their petitions...... Mad

Would be fine if CCP customer services GMs where speedy and efficent and you felt they gave a **** when speaking to them, but hey, they dont, thats EVE right?


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