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blankseplocked Should we get rid of highsec?
 
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Krikx
Solar Nexus.
Posted - 2010.01.15 15:34:00 - [31]
 

I think they should make the Eve Map one giant pipe. So that each system is only connected to 1 system on each side of it. Like one big long chain. Every system should be 0.0 except a hub that is 1.0 every 10 jumps.

They should then change the warp to 0 and make it warp to 50km no less.

And remove all gate guns and concord.

And maybe add sharks with freaking lazer beams. The sharks is up for discusion though, it might be to game imbalancing.

Winterjack
Posted - 2010.01.15 15:44:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Paknac Queltel
high/low security, though, is completely unnuanced. 0.5+ = safe, 0.4- = unsafe. The different sec ratings have no real impact.


Ah got it, that's something I can understand. I do agree. There's a bit too much black/white in that, I agree. Having safe empire space and scaling risk would be better. It's hard to achieve tho.
I have half an idea of how I'd go towards it, but since I'm noob I'll just listen for a while.

Tzarus
Posted - 2010.01.15 15:46:00 - [33]
 

To OP and other pvp obsessives
you have 0.0 where you can kill people, you have low-sec where you can kill people and, even in high-sec, you have game mechanics to kill people...

so, what the hell else do you want?

Do you want EVE get splitted in 2 servers, pvp and pve?






Hoodat Bee
Posted - 2010.01.15 15:58:00 - [34]
 

http://wotmud.org/

WoTmud is a text based game where you can be PK'd everywhere. As in low sec, it's entirely possible to get your carebear on without dying instantly all the time. However, it did require people to be constantly alert to the risk of being ganked, with an escape route (in the form of memorized spam routes to the nearest safe spot) planned out before going a' wassailing.

I bring it up because Eve -- even more than more traditional successors like WoW and UO -- is basically a mud with pictures, complete with the same room based travel system and even the same complaints about lag (which is, of course, caused by 20v20 fights and goddamn channelers ruining PK with op zing).

Anyway, the solution there was for major cities to have strong guards, though weak enough that players can still raid regularly. Oh, and for travel to be enough of a pain in the nuts that people don't go too far from their home.

So, really, make it low-sec everywhere. Give heavier sec status penalties for instigating pvp, and remove docking rights in empire factions based on sec status. Also, have the faction police provide gate gun dps on pirates who engage people without rights off gate.

That'd keep things reasonably safe in "high" sec, while still requiring that carebears remain active and alert at all times.

Lucifer Mullins
Caldari
Posted - 2010.01.15 16:05:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Tzarus
To OP and other pvp obsessives
you have 0.0 where you can kill people, you have low-sec where you can kill people and, even in high-sec, you have game mechanics to kill people...

so, what the hell else do you want?

Do you want EVE get splitted in 2 servers, pvp and pve?


This is why almost every system should be conquerable. No high-sec, just some low-sec with faction police around the main systems. I'm guessing about 10-15 (Jove, Gallente, et al, 2-3 systems each) total. You shouldn't be able to go 5 jumps without being in 0.0

Ben Harrigan
Posted - 2010.01.15 16:13:00 - [36]
 

Maybe, depends on what the reason is.

If the reason is that low-sec is under-inhabited and not used enough, I think its a better idea to adjust game mechanics and rewards to make low-sec more rewarding.

I dont really want the 20-man T2-T3 gate camps in major trade hubs and mission areas. Insta-popping all traffic isnt going to do anything positive for the game.

A diverse universe that rewards creativity and teamplay, is better than the station shooting gallery a suggestion like this would turn into.

Biruni Khan
Posted - 2010.01.15 16:16:00 - [37]
 

Given that there are NPC corporations in this game that have vast assets and are making huge amounts of money on trade, then it makes sense from a game development standpoint that those corps would see to it that there were secure systems and trade routes to move these goods.

If you were to remove NPCs from the game then I could see removing highsec. Eventually player-run corps that engaged in large-scale trading would want secure routes and secure systems in which to trade and players would take over the role of the "police force" and maintain security.

James Tritanius
Posted - 2010.01.15 16:21:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Hoodat Bee


So, really, make it low-sec everywhere. Give heavier sec status penalties for instigating pvp, and remove docking rights in empire factions based on sec status. Also, have the faction police provide gate gun dps on pirates who engage people without rights off gate.

That'd keep things reasonably safe in "high" sec, while still requiring that carebears remain active and alert at all times.


You are proposing a change but you did not provide a reason.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.01.15 16:22:00 - [39]
 

Another "mE nEAdS m0AR tArG3tS pL0x!1" whinage thread.

Ganker tears are the best tears. ugh


Winterjack
Posted - 2010.01.15 16:33:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Hoodat Bee
As in low sec, it's entirely possible to get your carebear on without dying instantly all the time. However, it did require people to be constantly alert to the risk of being ganked, with an escape route (in the form of memorized spam routes to the nearest safe spot) planned out before going a' wassailing.


See, for some of us this is just a game. Sometimes I want to get on and blow stuff up. Sometimes I just want to get on, put the lasers on and chat with guys in the corp, or fly around looking at the nice pictures. There are times (many, these days) when I don't want to be bothered if I miss that keypress or mousepress by 20msecs. Or even 20 secs.

I understand this is terribly annoying to some of you. You're in the game to kill and the fact you can't easily kill some guy who is talking with friends while flying a big unarmed BARGE must be terribly disappointing. I appreciate your tolerating us cowards. Yeah.

So, what can I say? All my support for this just went away. I don't give much of a damn about how you want to play the game, come gank me if you so please. I'll even joke with you about that, it's part of the picture and I don't mind it.
But if I need to keep my eyes on local and stay in faraway systems and warp away at the first sign of potential danger for the whole time I'm in eve... no, thanks.
Got enough work at work, when I log in on eve I sometimes just want to chill out. And sometimes I'll go mine in W-space with sleepers and players actively hunting me, and sometimes I'll go fight in losec for the lulz.
Just don't force YOUR way of playing the game on me.

Burnharder
Posted - 2010.01.15 16:49:00 - [41]
 

I didn't read any explanation of why you want to get rid of high sec, as there's plenty of empty low sec out there for you to play in already; the op therefore is a fail. Some of the other responses lead me to believe that some people subscribe to Eve but have never actually entered the game to see how it works. Apart from me, obviously, this thread seems to have attracted the stupid.



Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
Posted - 2010.01.15 17:09:00 - [42]
 

High sec serves it's purpose.

Null sec serves it's purpose.

Low sec is nothing but a scab on the EVE map and needs to be removed entirely. Total waste of perfectly good space. Keep high sec and turn low sec into 0.0.

And then all you so called pirates can STFU and LTPVP.

Mr Epeen Cool

kyrieee
Bite me inc.
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2010.01.15 17:14:00 - [43]
 

First of all, you shouldn't make changes to the game just because they'd make things more -interesting-. You could say that logistics in EVE are too easy at the moment because there is enough logistical capability to consolidate a very large amount of New Eden's trade into a single system, Jita. Making logistics harder would be -interesting- because it would create more regional markets, but in practice it's just making parts of the game annoying and less fun for everyone. EVE is not just a sandbox, it's a game too.

The same argument could be made against adding lowsec borders between the empires and making some minerals exclusive to each empire. This would be a fun experiment but ultimately it would just be to the detriment of the game. You more or less need to use freighters to move large volumes of minerals, but if freighters started going through lowsec with any regularity people would start camping their routes until they went away. That's how we EVE players balance things out. If there are targets we will hunt them until we can't anymore, which is why a populated lowsec doesn't really work, and EVE is too crowded for it anyway. Escorting freighters isn't really an option either because, in practice, escort operations require massive amounts of players and the rewards required to justify such operations would be absurd.

Once suggestion I heard recently, which isn't perfect but which I still like, is that people with negative sec status should be heavily penalized when transfering isk and / or items from / to a character with high sec status, except on the open market. What this would mean is that you can't use alts to take care of your logistics in lowsec and there would be an actual need for lowsec markets. Of course that's a big nerf to lowsec so you'd have to come up with something to compensate for that. For starters I think there should be very strong benefits to production in lowsec stations, like on the level of 5-10% reduce material costs or something.

The biggest problem with lowsec at the moment though is that even if you increase the incentives for people to go there pirates activity will simply increase to the point where it's not worth it to go there anymore and I think that the way you counteract that is by adding a TON more lowsec systems so that lowsec could sustain a higher population while still being more populated.

If you ever had a lowsec market hub though you'd still have the problem of it seeing more pirates than other places. Maybe you'd need some kind of dynamic policing of lowsec systems to make consolidated piracy harder? I also think the guaranteed death of highsec is a big problem. I'd like to see some kind of system that would allow for pirate activity in 0.5-0.6. The binary divide between safe and unsafe space means that you give up all your safety at once which means that people are less likely to do it. Finally, 15 minute GCC and a sec hit for just aggressing someone in lowsec needs to be changed. It's a royal pain in the a**

FunzzeR
Legion of the Scottish Fold
Posted - 2010.01.15 17:15:00 - [44]
 

I really don't care about high sec being changed to low sec, I am more concerned about the ability to make equal or greater amounts of isk on a RISK adjusted basis in high sec over its low sec and 0.0 counterparts.

This of course leads to the majority of low sec and 0.0 inhabitants keeping alts in high sec to farm missions/mine/trade for risk free isk. Thus it is impossible to truly wage economic warfare on rival corps and alliances when they can fall back and fund replacement ships with an army of high sec mission/trade alts.

Now since some of prior threads in this thread makes comparisons to the MMOs-that-shall-not-be-named, you will find that most other MMOs have "safe" areas but with dramatically lower rewards than the "unsafe" areas.


Zougan
Posted - 2010.01.15 17:26:00 - [45]
 

I find high-sec reasuring - and then again not.
To me there is something very wrong with a game (no sorry, sandbox) which allows for über police to patrol and kill anything that shoot at something they are not allowed to shoot. The game-mechanics makes it impossible to help a fellow player in a fight - since I don't have an aggression-timer on the "wrong-doers". So I help and get killed my the police instead. Something needs to be done, so that a crime in high-sec makes you fair game for everyone with a positive security-rating.

Yeah, fase-out high-sec but setup a system of NCP as well as PC bodyguard services. That way miners aso can buy the security needed for sector-hopping. Setup an alert system, so that high-security areas (the few that exist) floods local with warnings once a crime is committed in the area.

And yeah, allow for 0.0 areas between the faction-hubs.

<End of BrainDump>

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.01.15 17:39:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Mr Epeen
High sec serves it's purpose.

Null sec serves it's purpose.

Low sec is nothing but a scab on the EVE map and needs to be removed entirely. Total waste of perfectly good space. Keep high sec and turn low sec into 0.0.

And then all you so called pirates can STFU and LTPVP.

Mr Epeen Cool
This to be honest. But can you imagine the tears from these carebear pirates Shocked.

"You have no right to send me to 0.0!1!". Which ironically are these very same people trying to send the hi sec population to lo sec to get them ganked. But since they have no common sense they'd completely miss the punch line and irony of it anyway Laughing.


Scout Ops
Red Federation
Posted - 2010.01.15 17:41:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: FunzzeR
I really don't care about high sec being changed to low sec, I am more concerned about the ability to make equal or greater amounts of isk on a RISK adjusted basis in high sec over its low sec and 0.0 counterparts.

This of course leads to the majority of low sec and 0.0 inhabitants keeping alts in high sec to farm missions/mine/trade for risk free isk. Thus it is impossible to truly wage economic warfare on rival corps and alliances when they can fall back and fund replacement ships with an army of high sec mission/trade alts.

Now since some of prior threads in this thread makes comparisons to the MMOs-that-shall-not-be-named, you will find that most other MMOs have "safe" areas but with dramatically lower rewards than the "unsafe" areas.




THIS

please move lvl4 to lowsec so lowsec has a point.

also we would need more NPC stations in 0.0

oolk
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.01.15 17:43:00 - [48]
 

Let me up that thread 1 better;

Upon char creation,choose pirate as a profession.

Char cant access high sec
Char has special skill set
Char has some money
Char has some implants

Details,up to your imagination.

care to build on the idea,thread restart here >--------<

Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2010.01.15 17:51:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: oolk
Upon char creation,choose pirate as a profession.
This isn't a bad idea at all, but unfortunately CCP already removed the character background choices having any effect on the game at all other than a picture and a paragraph and starting frigate / gun skills.

Personally, I really wish that they hadn't done that to the degree that they did. The starter professions were helpful. Could still have the super-training up to the 1.6m SP mark, just give 250k SP instead of, what... 30k? Ah well. Dare to dream, I suppose...

Pirate would need gunnery and frigate skills, propulsion jamming and a few other things, and a stack of frigates with fittings. Though, I wonder how much this would be abused by people... Create account, get stuff, sell, profit, biovat. Sigh.

Kate Yeats
Caldari
Drone Reprogramming Center
Posted - 2010.01.15 18:09:00 - [50]
 

Forget remapping hi-sec, encourage more bears to low sec.

Fix low sec ore values or add valuable hidden belts to low sec systems, allow systems to be upgraded much like 0.0 sov for combat/industry activity.

Add a new faction sov 'pirate' along with their own militia, make all low-sec systems FW and allow any empire militia or pirate milita able to take over any low-sec system.

Empire sov means faction police spawn at gates and station. Unlawfully attacking a vessel will cause a faction spawn, to come to the aid of the vessel (on a par with mission spawns, not CONCORD), targetting outlaws, <-5s and opposing militia members.

Pirate sov means no police (possibly no gate guns)

Empire indie corps will want to secure and improve these systems so they are more valuable, possibly hiring mercs to help secure. Pirate corps will want to disrupt those trying to upgrade the system and 'flip' sov to remove police spawns. Opposing empires will also want in on the action.

its seriousbusiness
Posted - 2010.01.15 18:18:00 - [51]
 

ummm.. here's an idea.. Let everyone play as they like.

I know it's a strange concept, but think about it. If you are happy with your ingame location, why should you care?
It would enable you to actually enjoy the game that you pay a monthly fee for, instead of whining on the forums which gets completely ignored by the vast majority of the players.

If you think L4 Missions should be removed from highsec, then I think bubbles should be removed from 0.0 space. - Why? Because it would suit my personal playstyle!!

Here's anoher cool idea:

Remove alliances! Make a maximum Corp-size of 100 Players! Now claim your space - which now would be possible even in a 10-man Corp!

meh.. Why did I jus waste some perfectly good 3 mins for this....

Broken Spanner
Posted - 2010.01.15 18:20:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Ben Harrigan
Maybe, depends on what the reason is.

If the reason is that low-sec is under-inhabited and not used enough, I think its a better idea to adjust game mechanics and rewards to make low-sec more rewarding.

I dont really want the 20-man T2-T3 gate camps in major trade hubs and mission areas. Insta-popping all traffic isnt going to do anything positive for the game.

A diverse universe that rewards creativity and teamplay, is better than the station shooting gallery a suggestion like this would turn into.


^ this

Rico Minali
Gallente
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.01.15 18:35:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Mr Epeen
High sec serves it's purpose.

Null sec serves it's purpose.

Low sec is nothing but a scab on the EVE map and needs to be removed entirely. Total waste of perfectly good space. Keep high sec and turn low sec into 0.0.

And then all you so called pirates can STFU and LTPVP.

Mr Epeen Cool
This to be honest. But can you imagine the tears from these carebear pirates Shocked.

"You have no right to send me to 0.0!1!". Which ironically are these very same people trying to send the hi sec population to lo sec to get them ganked. But since they have no common sense they'd completely miss the punch line and irony of it anyway Laughing.



Hisec is for people who dont want risk. 0.0 is for people who dont want rules. lowsec is for people who want laws, but want to break them. In hisec laws are unbreakable, with insta police... you cant be a criminal in 0.0, because there isn any law to break. Lowsec should be where the underworld do business, fight and live.
Lowsec is the place that needs work done on it, it needs unique stuff going on, it doenst need carebears wanting it to be safe it, and it doesnt need 0.0 people ridiculing it.
It is an environment in itself and should be treated as such. What it needs is more criminal element, and more facets to what goes on there...
see lowsec ideas

Tason Hyena
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.01.15 18:47:00 - [54]
 

I don't think you should, because I don't think players can act in ways that wouldn't cause long-term harm to the game. They'd mass podkill newbies, hunt harvesting ships like mining barges and transports to extinction outside of heavily armed nbsi areas, and make the rest of the game like lowsec currently. This would cause long-term, drastic player losses as soloing and small-corp activity becomes too difficult for many people, and the ones that aren't okay with being in large-scale 0.0 operations would leave.

I think you'd have to make a sort of Pirate Code Duello to encourage gankers to restrain mass-scale ganking so that low-sec wouldn't be barren. Maybe like a huge Pirate Corp that enforces a code of conduct like honoring ransoms, leaving newbies out of a starter area alone for a limited time, and promoting swashbuckling over lulz. You'd have to hunt down offenders, policing your own. Then, I'd be okay with all lowsec, even if it means losing ships and paying ransom.

It's just a pipe dream though, you can't really hope for anything like that on a server-wide scale.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.01.15 18:54:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Slimy Worm
Nice troll.

Anyway, a better idea is to do the following:

1) Remove warp-to-zero but let haulers fit microwarpdrives. Maybe they can even get a reduced signature radius penalty similar to interceptors.

2) Create non-remote sensor dampeners that makes it take longer to target the ship that has them equipped.

3) Make vast swaths of lowsec in between all the major empires. The Minmitar are close already, but have a .5 link to Gallente space and a pipe through Derelik.

This wouldn't severely disrupt people that enjoy living in highsec, but would create more regional market variation so there'd be a stronger reward in shipping stuff between different markets.


I like these ideas and have advocated for them for awhile. Personally I think WTZ is fine, if you remove it again, people will only mass BMs again.

I always though it was weird that you can travel from racial empire to racial empire to racial empire all via high sec. It makes no sense to me. There needs to be a neutral zone.

Also, what is the purpose of having 5 varying degrees of high sec (.5-1.0). In my opinion, the only high sec in the game should be .9 and 1.0. Then from .8 to .5 you could have low sec as it is now, with gate and station guns. .4 to .1 should be low sec, but have all gate guns removed, and station guns deactivated (or however they function on npc 0.0 stations).


Yesh
Unjustified Ancients of MuMu
Posted - 2010.01.15 19:04:00 - [56]
 

Why on earth would you want to get rid of high sec?

If this is a PVP thing (and I'm assuming it is as the OP gave no reason) then there are plenty of targets to be found in low sec and 0.0 if you know what you are doing. Some of them (shock horror) even WANT to PVP.

Or perhaps you just want loads of inexperienced players or 'carebears' with expensive ships in low sec and 0.0 so you can get easy kills to bolster your killboard stats.

Hi sec is fine as it is. It does not need changing just because some people don't want to play the game the same way as you do.

When you pay my subs (or if I sell you my soul) then, and only then, may you dictate how I should play this game.

Scout Ops
Red Federation
Posted - 2010.01.15 19:12:00 - [57]
 

afaik, at first EVE Online was all lowsec

and people had no problems on there. k grinding was more difficult, but also more exciting.

I would be happy highsec removal provided that:


- nerf sensors for all ships, or at least make it longer to target stuff specially pods

- make something about gatecamps for example make it like sentry guns automatically fire on anyone sitting around a gate for more than 180 seconds. This also helps against afk-haulers

- remove wardec as it would be useless LOL

Dylan McDermit
Posted - 2010.01.15 19:12:00 - [58]
 

What if they made the pirate factions joinable? That would allow missioning in 0.0 and the pirate faction could act as a faction police/concord and protect it's membership. Perhaps that would get more people out into 0.0 without them feeling the need to be in a 0.0 alliance.

Slevnin
Posted - 2010.01.15 19:16:00 - [59]
 

Mr. Epeen has a valid point, High sec serves its purpuse as does null sec, as for you low secers the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence so get used to it. Don't like your grass take it else where.

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
Posted - 2010.01.15 19:20:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Rico Minali


... you cant be a criminal in 0.0, because there isn any law to break. Lowsec should be where the underworld do business, fight and live.




What a pile of ****.

Of course 0.0 has laws. They are made, not by Concord, but by the Sov holding corps/alliances. Which is as it should be in a sandbox game.

So head on into null sec and try to twist the game mechanics to work for you. Sorry, won't work. Why? Because the laws there are made by real people that care about maintaining there little empires. Low sec is a failed experiment by CCP and it's time for them to realize it. There is no need for it.

All that is needed is two zones. Concord space and everything else. And everything else is open to the laws of the space holders.

Mr Epeen Cool


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