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Vinoda
Gallente
The Soul Society
Pax Romana Alliance
Posted - 2010.01.08 00:01:00 - [1]
 

Eve takes a bold aproach into imagining a future where humans are the only sapient species in the known universe.
And no matter what genetic modifications each race is known by, in the end we are all just humans. Also there are a lot of Temperate planets in almost every solar system which obiously have life.
But why are the four empires only populated by humans, i know that it makes people more confortable with their character and whatnot, but story wise is not very likely to have only human beings flying around in space.
So what happened? did we met and killed all other civilizations? or are we yet to discover other non-human empires out there?

Aloriana Jacques
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2010.01.08 00:32:00 - [2]
 

Simply put, >>>WE<<< are the aliens. We're not native here but things like the Fedo, the Slaver Hound, etc., are. Technically speaking, in EVE's story aliens came and took over the galaxy. ;)

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.01.08 02:58:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 08/01/2010 03:15:42
Edited by: Stitcher on 08/01/2010 03:01:56
Originally by: Vinoda
But why are the four empires only populated by humans, i know that it makes people more confortable with their character and whatnot, but story wise is not very likely to have only human beings flying around in space.


According to estimate calculations performed by somebody at the The Royal Observatory in Edinburgh called Duncan Forgan, the total number of stable civilizations that currently exist in our galaxy is somewhere between 360 and 38,000 depending on whether or not life can spread between planets by piggybacking on asteroids in spore form.

The Milky Way galaxy itself has a volume of about 39 thousand billion cubic light years.

So even if the Galaxy were at the most populous end of Forgan's estimates, the average density of sentient life out there would be something like one civilization per billion cubic light years.

A billion cubic light years will contain anywhere between about 424,000 and 3.5 million stars, depending on whether or not you're counting stars with an absolute magnitude of brightness below 8.5.

New Eden contains a little over five thousand stars - 0.25% of the volume that a sentient race would usually expect to have all to themselves, even assuming the galaxy were absolutely teeming with advanced sentient civilizations. at the less populous end of the spectrum, you're looking at one race per hundred billion cubic light years, with New Eden being about the same size relative to such a volume as you and I are to the planet Earth.

So on the contrary, it would actually be very, very likely indeed to have only human beings flying around in space. Expecting humans and extraterrestrials to ever meet by accident is a bit like standing on a cliff in England, throwing a rock, and expecting it to collide mid-air with a similar rock thrown by a bloke in Sri Lanka.

Vinoda
Gallente
The Soul Society
Pax Romana Alliance
Posted - 2010.01.08 05:08:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Stitcher

According to estimate calculations... blah, blah, blah


Yeah, but those are still theories, and even if it where true, its just a game!

And as such there isnt any reason to not put other beings out there, at least it would increase the EVE rich story.

But maybe is better this way, i wouldnt like it to become like star treck.

Odilon Raennere
Posted - 2010.01.08 11:18:00 - [5]
 

A long, long time ago the EVE story team realized you get a deeper, more familiar setting by leaving out the bipedal, cranial-ridged stereotypical 'aliens' and focusing on political and transhumanist themes among competing civilizations of good old fashioned humans. (Maybe the moral of the story is that advanced technology and spacefaring won't create a de facto unification of the species?) At the end of the day, each race within EVE developed spaceflight on its own (again) and set out for the stars from their respective homeworlds, finding each other in the process. Although interstellar society is now very well developed and integrated by the time of the game's setting, the Amarr are aliens to the Gallente, and from the Gallente perspective the Caldari are like "Martians" are to us. That is what is meant by "in EVE we are the aliens".

Now go sign up for the Star Trek Online beta.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.01.08 14:50:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 08/01/2010 14:50:13
Edited by: Stitcher on 08/01/2010 14:49:57
Originally by: Vinoda
And as such there isnt any reason to not put other beings out there, at least it would increase the EVE rich story.


No, it really wouldn't. You may think it would, and that's fine - you're entitled to have your opinion, even when your opinion is wrong.

Aerine Diamond
Caldari
FREE GATES ACADEMY
Posted - 2010.01.09 22:57:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
New Eden contains a little over five thousand stars

This is not true. There are five thousand stars which are connected to the Stargate system. Not every system is suitable for stargates.

Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.01.09 23:00:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Aerine Diamond
Originally by: Stitcher
New Eden contains a little over five thousand stars

This is not true. There are five thousand stars which are connected to the Stargate system. Not every system is suitable for stargates.


^^ This.

There are 5000+ star systems that can support the gravitational distortion created by the activation of Stargates, but there are thousands, if not tens of thousands of stars in the 'local' vicinity that we don't have access to.


Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2010.01.09 23:42:00 - [9]
 

I am against bringing Aliens into the setting. In books, TV and games aliens are appear far too human when they have intelligence, or in the other extreme are the Starship Troopers stupid "Bugs".

There are a few alien creatures on the more terran-alike worlds of EVE like the Slaver-Hounds or the hanging long limb but I think even these are relativly rare. Most worlds in the EVE setting who bear life were terraformed at some point of the history of human civilisation and so the majority of life on the planets are terran species.

Also the whole setting is about what humans can do to each other for a variety of reasons, including because they can. An Alien Invasion would only distract from the core of the EVE-lore.

In conclusion, Aliens do not fit into the EVE universe and I hope CCP will ever bring them into the game.

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2010.01.12 14:00:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 12/01/2010 14:01:05
I think we have "alien" material enough already. The rogue and Sleeper drones along with Sansha's Nation already leave a lot of possibilities open.

I want aliens to be true alien, not just a native American painted blue. Their ways have to be strange and illogical to the human mind and provoke a strong sense of xenophobia. People should be scared of them because they not can figure out the reason for their actions.

Scout Ops
Red Federation
Posted - 2010.01.12 23:33:00 - [11]
 

CONCORD is aliens

their ships are pure awesomeness (except in pirate missions against concord Laughing

Davin Forsosa
Caldari
Posted - 2010.01.13 08:26:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Scout Ops
CONCORD is aliens





CONCORD are not alien. They use Jove technology hence why they are so advanced, but they are still quite human.

Zandmannetje
Posted - 2010.01.13 19:33:00 - [13]
 



Gallente ?

Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation
Posted - 2010.01.15 01:41:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
I am against bringing Aliens into the setting. In books, TV and games aliens are appear far too human when they have intelligence, or in the other extreme are the Starship Troopers stupid "Bugs".

There are a few alien creatures on the more terran-alike worlds of EVE like the Slaver-Hounds or the hanging long limb but I think even these are relativly rare. Most worlds in the EVE setting who bear life were terraformed at some point of the history of human civilisation and so the majority of life on the planets are terran species.

Also the whole setting is about what humans can do to each other for a variety of reasons, including because they can. An Alien Invasion would only distract from the core of the EVE-lore.

In conclusion, Aliens do not fit into the EVE universe and I hope CCP will ever bring them into the game.


Well first, I think the drones/sleepers are close enough to be alien life (alien to the humans). The Jovians too, could end up having *something* alien about them.

For a fresh take on humans meeting aliens, read "Murasaki" edited by Robert Silverberg. For a very EVE-like story with another fresh take on aliens, try the "Gap Series" by Stephen R. Donaldson. You'll swear he plays EVE.

I think every terrestrial and many of the other plants in the EVE 'verse are capable of thier own indiginous life. The humans are just he ones with (alleged) intelligence.

And hey, what's wrong with a bug hunt?



Mielono
Caldari
SWARTA
Posted - 2010.01.18 00:43:00 - [15]
 

A biological spaceship race would be interesting, but we pretty much have them if you consider the rogue drones... without the biological part.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.01.18 01:54:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 18/01/2010 01:57:48
Edited by: Stitcher on 18/01/2010 01:56:05
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Aerine Diamond
Originally by: Stitcher
New Eden contains a little over five thousand stars

This is not true. There are five thousand stars which are connected to the Stargate system. Not every system is suitable for stargates.


^^ This.

There are 5000+ star systems that can support the gravitational distortion created by the activation of Stargates, but there are thousands, if not tens of thousands of stars in the 'local' vicinity that we don't have access to.




Of all the pieces of PF out there, the one that I'd argue is in the direst need of either deletion or a serious retcon is the scientific article on Stargates. It's so wildly at odds with the actual in-game reality that it's the only piece of PF I would actively encourage people to ignore.

Besides which, go take a look at the jump planner sometime. Plan a route between any two random systems, note how far each jump is, and how densely packed the stars are relative to the length of a jump line.

Our nearest neighbour here in the Milky Way is more than four light years away. in New Eden, that same distance comfortably contains a couple of constellations. New Eden is so massively dense that if there were a load of other stars crowding the space between inhabited systems that aren't suitable for stargates then you'd have stars so close to each other that you'd not be out of one system before the next began, and the ambient radiation levels would make an inhabitable, terrestrial world totally out of the question.

Hell, some larger kinds of stars have radii larger than the average density New Eden would have if it were 50% or better populated by "junk" stars.

In short: ignore the stargate article. It doesn't make sense, even under the rather shaky light of the game's cinematic take on physics. It's internally inconsistent with the logic of the EVE universe and desperately needs either scrapping or re-writing.

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2010.01.18 08:37:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Stitcher

In short: ignore the stargate article. It doesn't make sense, even under the rather shaky light of the game's cinematic take on physics. It's internally inconsistent with the logic of the EVE universe and desperately needs either scrapping or re-writing.
Personally, I take the stance that it was accurate once but is outdated now. Stargates probably do require special gravitational conditions to burrow through spacetime, but for the last couple of centuries all the empires have had access to the technology to manipulate gravity (as is evidenced by the linear layout of ship and station decks, tractor beams, etc). It's possible that the very first stargates of the new era had to be built on natural harmony spots, but today a new stargate can generate its own harmonies internally.

Erayo
Posted - 2010.01.18 11:31:00 - [18]
 

IIRC, Aren't the Jove currently at war with someone more technologically superior or something of that line.

Albetta
Gallente
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2010.01.18 16:46:00 - [19]
 

****ing prawns.....

Spasmod
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.01.20 13:57:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Albetta
****ing prawns.....


You Sir just won the thread LaughingLaughing

Invelious
Amarr
Adamant Edge
Posted - 2010.01.20 15:59:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Mielono
A biological spaceship race would be interesting, but we pretty much have them if you consider the rogue drones... without the biological part.


This is called the Yuuzhan Vong from the Star Wars universe.

Thgil Goldcore
Amarr
Robonia
Posted - 2010.01.20 18:14:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Stitcher


Our nearest neighbour here in the Milky Way is more than four light years away. in New Eden, that same distance comfortably contains a couple of constellations. New Eden is so massively dense that if there were a load of other stars crowding the space between inhabited systems that aren't suitable for stargates then you'd have stars so close to each other that you'd not be out of one system before the next began, and the ambient radiation levels would make an inhabitable, terrestrial world totally out of the question.

Hell, some larger kinds of stars have radii larger than the average density New Eden would have if it were 50% or better populated by "junk" stars.

In short: ignore the stargate article. It doesn't make sense, even under the rather shaky light of the game's cinematic take on physics. It's internally inconsistent with the logic of the EVE universe and desperately needs either scrapping or re-writing.


Dont forget that we are on the outer edge of the milky way galaxy where stars are much more spread out, while the new eden galaxy is only in the core of the galaxy where stars are far more crowded. The center of the milky way is just as crowded if not more. This would also explain why the starscapes (the background) of the systems are so much more interesting in new eden than here on earth.

Also the size of the new eden Stargate network is very small to the likely size of the entire galaxy. Perhaps just the inner 1-2% of the entire galaxy encompassing it.

Although if I am to believed, and the gameworld we play in is just the center of the galaxy, it would lead to other interesting dynamics. Like the orbital periods of the stars would be vastly different. in the period of years the stars as we know them now would be mixed around. In just a few decades the cleanly crafted borders of empires wouldn't be so as the stars mixed together. You would find the Amarr home world in the middle of nulsec while the minimtar capital is just a few light years from sarum prime. All in all cohesion of empires would fall apart... lead to some interesting diplomatic situations for sure as your capital planet wanders closer and closer to hostile space.

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.01.22 09:17:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
I am against bringing Aliens into the setting. In books, TV and games aliens are appear far too human when they have intelligence, or in the other extreme are the Starship Troopers stupid "Bugs".

There are a few alien creatures on the more terran-alike worlds of EVE like the Slaver-Hounds or the hanging long limb but I think even these are relativly rare. Most worlds in the EVE setting who bear life were terraformed at some point of the history of human civilisation and so the majority of life on the planets are terran species.

Also the whole setting is about what humans can do to each other for a variety of reasons, including because they can. An Alien Invasion would only distract from the core of the EVE-lore.

In conclusion, Aliens do not fit into the EVE universe and I hope CCP will ever bring them into the game.


I 100% agree. Aliens in most setting aren't done well at all.

I actually prefer sci-fi with just humans or mostly humans.

Also, as said in this thread, there are aliens, just no intelligent ones.

Sloth Arnini
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.01.23 13:36:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
Edited by: Stitcher on 08/01/2010 03:15:42
Edited by: Stitcher on 08/01/2010 03:01:56
So on the contrary, it would actually be very, very likely indeed to have only human beings flying around in space. Expecting humans and extraterrestrials to ever meet by accident is a bit like standing on a cliff in England, throwing a rock, and expecting it to collide mid-air with a similar rock thrown by a bloke in Sri Lanka.


To be fair, while it is extremely unlikely for humans and aliens to meet by accident, it is not inconceivable that other aliens might have an interest in finding extraterrestrials, in which case they'll target their search efforts, just as SETI and people hunting for earth-like planets do. That doesn't change the fact that it is inconceivable with current science and technology to look for people in such vast volumes (the equivalent of looking for a needle in a barn full of hay) of course, but it suggests the likelihood of two intelligent alien species encountering each other is at least slightly better than blind chance would suggest ;)

As to the comment made in this thread about New Eden being in the centre of a galaxy, I recall reading that the centre of our galaxy is considered an extremely unlikely place to find life, on account of projected extremely high levels of radiation.

Which does of course beg the question of what sort of collection of stars New Eden is. The number of blue stars indicate it can't be a globular cluster (as these seem to be composed primarily of older stars), it doesn't seem quite open enough to be an open cluster (or else too large- it's been a while since I opened my astronomy books but I think open clusters usually consist of just a few hundred stars). Maybe space in New Eden is crumpled up like an unmade bed so that stars that seem close would in fact be much further apart if space was less folded. That might explain why there are so many different nebulae forming the backdrops to an area of space that is what... 50 ly in diameter? ;)

Not that I have any problem suspending disbelief of course. And I also find the idea of a human only cluster pefectly compelling. Much of the best sci-fi is not about exploring strange new worlds, seeking out new life and new civilizations but about how people respond to the technology that they make.

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2010.01.23 20:48:00 - [25]
 

Maybe the too tight packing is not real. Just our measurements are under a distorted view because they are in light years and you pressupose that the year they use is the same as our terran year...?


A light year in eve universe could be 10 times larger than terran ones? Wich planet is is based upon? Mekhios? Luminare? Pator? Ammar prime?

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2010.01.23 22:54:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Alexeph Stoekai on 24/01/2010 01:39:51
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Maybe the too tight packing is not real. Just our measurements are under a distorted view because they are in light years and you pressupose that the year they use is the same as our terran year...?


A light year in eve universe could be 10 times larger than terran ones? Wich planet is is based upon? Mekhios? Luminare? Pator? Ammar prime?
That is a very, very weak argument. First of all, it's unlikely that the individual empires all use lightyears, and even if they do they wouldn't call it that. Second, there is a unified calendar in EVE, which set the length of a year according to ancient Earth calendars - so there is a real year to base lightyear on. Third, using a real-world unit of measurement and secretly having it be something completely different is completely ******ed from both a writer and reader's perspective.

A lightyear in EVE is just as long as a lightyear is to us.

EDIT: Also, you misspelled "Amarr", which loses you two thousand internet points.

sHERU
Posted - 2010.01.24 04:46:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Kyra Felann

Also, as said in this thread, there are aliens, just no intelligent ones.


You can even doubt that part, the could be bio-engineered or evolved species from earth.

I'm kinda interested how far the eve humans are different compared to the humans back on earth.. If the eve gate would open again... would people from earth even remember what happen with the previous one? and if the would meet caldarians or amarr think that the are true aliens?

"Oooh aliens, there all round and shiny and if we shoot at it a liquid comes out... err... waith sec! that looks familiar" Laughing

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2010.01.24 15:46:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai
Edited by: Alexeph Stoekai on 24/01/2010 01:39:51
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Maybe the too tight packing is not real. Just our measurements are under a distorted view because they are in light years and you pressupose that the year they use is the same as our terran year...?


A light year in eve universe could be 10 times larger than terran ones? Wich planet is is based upon? Mekhios? Luminare? Pator? Ammar prime?
That is a very, very weak argument. First of all, it's unlikely that the individual empires all use lightyears, and even if they do they wouldn't call it that. Second, there is a unified calendar in EVE, which set the length of a year according to ancient Earth calendars - so there is a real year to base lightyear on. Third, using a real-world unit of measurement and secretly having it be something completely different is completely ******ed from both a writer and reader's perspective.

A lightyear in EVE is just as long as a lightyear is to us.

EDIT: Also, you misspelled "Amarr", which loses you two thousand internet points.


its just as weak as the complain that the star systems are too close. THe nubmers are just arbitrary hand have ZERO effect in game or storyline wise. So you can interpreted tham as you like. On MY personal universe an eve light year is the distance a bad joke can travel in 1 year.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.01.24 18:58:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 24/01/2010 18:58:00
Originally by: Sloth Arnini
To be fair, while it is extremely unlikely for humans and aliens to meet by accident, it is not inconceivable that other aliens might have an interest in finding extraterrestrials, in which case they'll target their search efforts, just as SETI and people hunting for earth-like planets do. That doesn't change the fact that it is inconceivable with current science and technology to look for people in such vast volumes (the equivalent of looking for a needle in a barn full of hay)


More like trying to find half a hay-coloured plastic needle in the entire combined annual hay output from all the farms in the state of Kansas.

Davin Airitsu
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2010.01.25 00:29:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
Edited by: Stitcher on 24/01/2010 18:58:00
Originally by: Sloth Arnini
To be fair, while it is extremely unlikely for humans and aliens to meet by accident, it is not inconceivable that other aliens might have an interest in finding extraterrestrials, in which case they'll target their search efforts, just as SETI and people hunting for earth-like planets do. That doesn't change the fact that it is inconceivable with current science and technology to look for people in such vast volumes (the equivalent of looking for a needle in a barn full of hay)


More like trying to find half a hay-coloured plastic needle in the entire combined annual hay output from all the farms in the state of Kansas.


... while only being able to search the hay within arms reach. ugh


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