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blankseplocked CCP, Please change your policy and allow UI-Modding
 
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Agnatar
Posted - 2010.01.05 11:56:00 - [1]
 

(manual moved from me from the gameplay forum because stevie wanted it)

It was said often enough: The EVE-UI is outdated and an ergonomical disaster, especially because of the tiny font. Brainless fanboy-defense aka "get glasses" and "play on 1024x768" does not change the fact that "ergonomics" seems like a foreign word for the devs and some defending players.

I read often here the reason why UI modding is forbidden is because of equal opportunities for all, but that's nonsense.
In fact the EVE-UI is favoring players who are rich in RL, there is no equal opportunitiy for all. Those who can buy large and very large monitors/TFT-displays have a great advantage because they don't have to deal in the same way with the tiny font like the others with normal sized monitors.

Another reason why UI-modding should be allowed is that the game badly needs fresh air because of the early release of the first real EVE competitor "Star Trek Online". It's hard to predict which impact this will have for EVE, maybe only 10 % will change but maybe the Highsec will become a ghost town next month because of the underdeveloped PvE aspect of EVE.

UI-modding could give EVE a fresh new look and I guess the community is very able to create fantastic custom-UIs if you, CCP, allow it. Sorry but seems so that you are completely unable to do the long promised UI overhaul so let the community do the job.
This would of course have some impact to the gameplay and balancing but only minor and equal opportunitiy is also given because all can use UI-mods.

Honestly I must say I do not expect that you fulfill my request because in the past you have always ignored similar requests. But now the situation will change because of STO, your time as the only supplier of a space MMOG will come to an end next month. You maybe think STO will be no danger for EVE but this could be a fatal error. Be prepared for a maybe drastic drop of your subscribers. Do something to make EVE robust for the coming competition with STO. An active UI-modding scene would be the necessary first step in this direction.

Agnatar
Posted - 2010.01.05 12:03:00 - [2]
 

@Artemis Rose (from the original thread)

Was not my intention to discuss about STO but want give nervertheless an answer to you.

Quote: "Star Trek Online won't even be half the game EVE is."

In fact it's double the game EVE is because they have their Dust514 allready integrated and ready for running next month.
I really don't want debate here which game is better but it would be ignorant to think STO would have no impact to the subscriber number of EVE.
Therefore CCP and the EVE community should do something instead of ignoring. Otherwise we could have a real bad surprise soon.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.01.05 12:57:00 - [3]
 

I've pleaded for the same thing myself (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1025404). It seems so obvious that this would be a good thing, and IMHO is one of the big reasons WoW is a success. I mean, does anyone play WoW without addons after the first week?

As mentioned in the above thread, the way to handle the "secret killer addons" issue is to require that all addons used on TQ be public, and available (with digital signature certification) from a CCP server. If CCP decides an addon goes too far, they can revoke the certificate.

The only place unsigned addons could be used (for development and testing) is Singularity.

This would round off so many of the rough edges in the user interface it's not funny. I mean, CCP might not have the time to add a search box to the "choose a station for your order" popup window, but it annoys me enough that I'd do it.

Bane Loppknow
Pel Industries
Posted - 2010.01.05 13:58:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Bane Loppknow on 05/01/2010 13:58:47
People seem to be under the mistaken impression that UI mods = hacker's delight. While someone could potentially hack your account by telling you a keylogger is actually a sweet new UI mod, that's easily overcome by a hosting/testing site run by CCP (or some other trusted entity). They make sure the mods aren't malicious and provide a safe place to download them.

As for the idea that user-interface mods could somehow be used to bot or cheat, that is more tricky, but not impossible to solve. User interfaces are merely the window through which you view the ones and zeros of the game. EVE has a fairly ugly window. Changing the window to suit your own personal taste has nothing to do with what's on the other side. Where it starts getting tricky is when you allow UI mods to alert you if something happens (like a red enters local, or your shield reaches 4-oh wait, they did that already), because that does give a slight advantage to someone who has that mod.

my personal favorite solution is to allow people to create and upload custom skins, that merely move the current UI around, give it different shapes, and things like that.

Grarr Wrexx
Posted - 2010.01.05 15:41:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Bane Loppknow
Edited by: Bane Loppknow on 05/01/2010 13:58:47
People seem to be under the mistaken impression that UI mods = hacker's delight. While someone could potentially hack your account by telling you a keylogger is actually a sweet new UI mod, that's easily overcome by a hosting/testing site run by CCP (or some other trusted entity). They make sure the mods aren't malicious and provide a safe place to download them.

As for the idea that user-interface mods could somehow be used to bot or cheat, that is more tricky, but not impossible to solve. User interfaces are merely the window through which you view the ones and zeros of the game. EVE has a fairly ugly window. Changing the window to suit your own personal taste has nothing to do with what's on the other side. Where it starts getting tricky is when you allow UI mods to alert you if something happens (like a red enters local, or your shield reaches 4-oh wait, they did that already), because that does give a slight advantage to someone who has that mod.

my personal favorite solution is to allow people to create and upload custom skins, that merely move the current UI around, give it different shapes, and things like that.


So not only do you want to make it easier for users to create malicious content distributed to a whole lot of peers, you want to push the load of managing/validating this content to CCP? Do you really think they have nothing better to do?

Agnatar
Posted - 2010.01.05 16:49:00 - [6]
 

All other MMOGs have large modding communities and they can mod like they want without any control of the publishers.
Those supposedly dangers described here simply don't exist, there is no need for certification by CCP.

Sure, if someone is so silly to download and install a completely unknown custom UI he/she could get a key logger but the popular custom UIs from other MMOGs are well proven if they have malware inside or not.

I really see absolutely no reason why CCP could not deal successfully with custom-UIs like all the others MMOG companies do!

mchief117
Posted - 2010.01.05 17:05:00 - [7]
 

i think this goes back to CCP want to make sure that players don't have an advantage simple y having mods installed. you talked about WOW and no one plays vanilla after the first week. well that was blizzs choice to allow that. but in game play that means that the guy that has those great new mods that cast the correct spell at exactly the right moment has a uber advantage over the 10 year old who just got the game for his birthday and is still vanilla. modding should not be "REQUIRED" to play a game , its just a way to gain a edge over the other guy.

on to the point of the UI itself i do agree that its a little bland atm , i myself have been wondering why every ship in the game seams to have the same control station interface. why don't ammar ships have bigger cap displays as they need cap more than any one. or why don't caldari ships have remaining missile counters.

it would be nice for a built in graphical modurability . so you could select say power icon 4 which gives you a bar style read out of you capacitor level , or "shield 3" which shows your Shields remaining as a bubble around an icon of your ship. I'm pretty sure that this customization would be allowed by CCP as it does not give any EDGE to the player doing it it just makes your UI look more like your ship.

NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
Posted - 2010.01.05 17:36:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: NightF0x on 05/01/2010 17:40:17
I've always been on the fence on this one. On one hand, I can see the benifit of a customizable UI. I have played WOW and I liked the UI mods. On the other hand, it would be an enormous task (if it is even possible) for CCP to allow mods. You have to allow the mods to actually control the interface and if it's not programmed to allow it from the start, which I'm sure Eve never was, then you run into a coding nightmare trying to allow it. That might be the reason why they haven't opened it up.

I would like to change some of the colors and text sizes. I'm red-green colorblind and have a very difficult time seeing the module activation colors, especially if the timer bar is slow (like on strip miners) and you are in a bright gas cloud.

Isaac Crow
Posted - 2010.01.05 17:44:00 - [9]
 

Dear sweet zombie jesus, no.

Does the UI need an update? Oh yes. Better font control, visibility, hotkeys, etc? Sure.

But I'd really rather not have to manage a billion buggy, user-developed script packages to maintain an "edge".

Kel Nissa
Posted - 2010.01.06 01:13:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Agnatar

Those supposedly dangers described here simply don't exist, there is no need for certification by CCP.



This explains, why projects like mozilla or eclipse integrated such security mechanism after their plugins got traction.

To be honest - serious projects have such security measures not for fun.

Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2010.01.06 02:57:00 - [11]
 

Yeah, because updating the mandatory UI-modifications to stay competitive is soo much fun.. not.


 

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