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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.01.06 19:02:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 06/01/2010 19:02:56
Originally by: Freddey
...From all of this, I have decided that I might just stay in NRDS 0.0 if and when I actually do decide to move down...
Unfortunately your options are very limited. The good news is that the one popular alliance that lives by NRDS happens to be VERY good at it. And that is CVA.

It p*sses me off that there is only super-alliance that is willing to take the chance to be NRDS. And that is the mentality that needs to change among PVPers. Hopefully Dominion will be changing some of the most prevalent ideologies and easing up on the fear of accepting noobs into alliances.

But in the current state of affairs individual players just aren't worth enough to be welcomed into 0.0 other than as just target practice. And that's a real shame.


Arekhon
Eternal Perseverance
B A N E
Posted - 2010.01.06 19:10:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Navtiqes


Lowsec is fine. It's supposed to be barren and unforgiving. The last thing I want is another halfbaked idea like FactionWars to come screw it up.



QFT

KR1MiNaL
Posted - 2010.01.06 19:12:00 - [93]
 

These guys seem to manage just fine with the way things are.
Linkage

Baugoti
Amarr
Middle Finger Technology
Posted - 2010.01.06 19:14:00 - [94]
 

To me one of the biggest killers of piracy was the removal of low sec plex's.

People used to try and run the 2/10 or 3/10 plex's located throughout low sec for a chance at some nice loot to sell or use. Sure the risk of losing there ship was there, however the reward could be very nice. It drew people into low sec areas for actual profit.

You also had factions of pirates/corps who lived and housed in those areas creating more numbers living in low sec space. You would have traders and builders speed running supplies to these areas to sell them off to those who lived there. Pirates would be able to try and catch them.. or be able to sit at the plex's and wait for their prey. There was a draw for non pirates to attempt to profit in lowsec and not just speed travel through the systems.

I miss pirating, it was exciting when a ransom went well.. and heart pumping when the ransom brought friends along to surprise you.

BeachParty
Caldari
Semi Precious
Posted - 2010.01.06 19:21:00 - [95]
 

My Head Hurts. I resend my earlier post. This thread is pointless.

1. Scram the battleship
2. Jam the battleship
3. Melt the battleship
4. pop the pod
5. Sell the corpse

Hope to see you soon!

-Beach Party

Arekhon
Eternal Perseverance
B A N E
Posted - 2010.01.06 19:23:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Dors Venabily
If you want this game to go back to 14 15 K ppl tops at one time your idea is great. Laughing



the game was alot more more fun back when the peak concurrent users was at 15k TBH...

The new influx of players due to CCP advertising is ruining EVE by making it more like every other MMORPG out there, and those things that aren't like the other game are slowly turning into it by the majority (newer) of the player base whining about it...examples(this game is so cool but)..(I wish they would change this and this)...(when I played {insert any other MMO} it was like this, so EVE should be).

CCP used to care about the player base back then, now they only care about padding their wallets

P.S. Before you ask "why don't you quit then?" let me answer ...I will play EVE until every last shred of piracy is gone, at that point I will quit...
WITH ALL MY STUFFYARRRR!!


Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.01.06 19:30:00 - [97]
 

TBH, there is a lot of truth to the "carebear" whines about how pirates have cleared lowsec out:
- Older pirates used to honor ransoms, and this was taken *very* seriously. Pirates that didn't honor ransoms were cast out of their corps, and corps that didn't honor ransoms were "war dec'ed" by most of the other pirate corps until they fell apart. It was considered a *bad thing* to be in one of these corps, and a stain upon your honor. These days, someone posts a "name and shame" on a dishonored ransom and everyone is like "meh, ur fault don't trust anyone".

- Honor *was not a bad thing* amongst pirates. The older pirates had to *repeatedly* explain why honor was a good thing - in 1v1s/duels, in ransoms, in corp ransoms, and in general behavior. These days, all I see are people lampooning honor in their "internet spaceships" game.

- Pirates would frequently take the time to instruct "noobs" in the mechanics of Eve. When a mission runner got scanned down and ganked, the pirates would send them a friendly message explaining how to know someone was a pirate, how to know when you were being scanned down, maybe noting improvements in their mission fits, etc. These days any evemails between ganker and gankee typically consist of "U got any tears for me carebear? LOL u noob".

- Pirates didn't usually hunt the absolute noobs out of lowsec - in fact I went through quite a number (unsuspectingly, at the time) of pirate gatecamps in my first Cormorant... and even got tips on how to run the lowsec plexes as I passed through. Local was more full of friendly banter than harsh degradation. These days "pirates" seem to hate and despise the "noob" and "carebear".

All of this isn't to say that there are no *good* pirates left in Eve ... just that what I see over in C&P isn't the way it was, and to me it seems obvious why such predators might have a shortage of prey. IMO, I think that any fix to lowsec will involve a few key features:
- Dramatic improvements to lowsec carebearing for the individual, such as by moving/adding pirate agents to lowsec or adding valuable content that can only be obtained there. No, the faction war LP stores don't count.
- The encouragement of lowsec PVP/Carebear alliances that are competing over specific group based content. This content would quite likely be in a static place, but would naturally deplete in order to prevent the creation of uber lowsec alliances that cannot be unseated.
- Low sec market hubs (not like Jita necessarily) such that it is not such an impossibility to live with a poor sec status. Truly, living at -10 requires an alt to haul your PVP ships/mods to you. Ideally said market hubs would be where the content from the above two things are able to be sold - though I agree with an earlier poster that they should not be illegal in highsec.

Some nice to haves include:
- A ransom system that works - where you can say "Give me your 10M ISK/your ship/whatever and I'll let you go" and it is enforced by game mechanics.
- A treaty system that enforces penalties for breach of contract (such as "My corp will not kill your ships in these systems - at the automated cost of 100M ISK/ship").

Anyway - I completely see both sides of this story. I've been -10 for 3 years, but I know in my heart that the 'carebears' have a totally valid argument.... we have hunted ourselves out of prey, and have been *******s about it. Even in my corp (which I like to think I have a positive effect on), I've seen behavior that would have never been condoned by any pirate corp when I started.

-Liang

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.01.06 19:38:00 - [98]
 

Remove CONCORD from all space except 1.0 and 0.9. Low sec should be all space from 0.1 to 0.8

This would make it impossible to move goods from one hub to another without traversing low sec. Huge profits would be had for daring haulers.

Remove significant amounts of ore from 1.0 - 0.9 space.

In my humble opinion, the less lawful space Eve has, the better.

There is no reason we need such huge tracts of CONCORD protected space.

PVP should be everywhere.

Eve is too safe.

Freddey
Posted - 2010.01.06 19:40:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: BeachParty
My Head Hurts. I resend my earlier post. This thread is pointless.

1. Scram the battleship
2. Jam the battleship
3. Melt the battleship
4. pop the pod
5. Sell the corpse

Hope to see you soon!

-Beach Party


Seems like this is the mentality of the "New Pirate" of EvE that everyone is taking about. Couldn't have said it better myself. Heh, funny...when I started and began reading about the game I used to think that "podding" was only done as a dishonorable act. Fast forward a few weeks into the game, EXPECT to be podded at every engagement.

KR1MiNaL
Posted - 2010.01.06 19:51:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Arekhon
Originally by: Dors Venabily
If you want this game to go back to 14 15 K ppl tops at one time your idea is great. Laughing



the game was alot more more fun back when the peak concurrent users was at 15k TBH...

The new influx of players due to CCP advertising is ruining EVE by making it more like every other MMORPG out there, and those things that aren't like the other game are slowly turning into it by the majority (newer) of the player base whining about it...examples(this game is so cool but)..(I wish they would change this and this)...(when I played {insert any other MMO} it was like this, so EVE should be).

CCP used to care about the player base back then, now they only care about padding their wallets

P.S. Before you ask "why don't you quit then?" let me answer ...I will play EVE until every last shred of piracy is gone, at that point I will quit...
WITH ALL MY STUFFYARRRR!!




I smell 4chan'r OT'r.. or some other elitist community groupie who doesn't like seeing new people join his hobby.

This is MY HOBBY! NO NEW PEOPLE! STUPID '09ER! GET OUT YOU NEW PEOPLE.
Rolling Eyes

More people = more pirating opportunities.

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2010.01.06 19:51:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Mendolus on 06/01/2010 20:06:11
Originally by: Liang Nuren


-Liang


I think the main part too in the grand scheme of things is that it is no longer exciting to be prey. It used to be even when I first started in the beginning of '08, that it was considered a challenge to run around in low sec and evade pirates. And you had a strong inclination to believe that the worst it would cost you was at the most maybe 75% the value or your ship and fittings, or 50% if the pirates were savvy on you ever showing up again to try and evade them another time.

It was not even about the ISK, even then in early '08 it was clear that ISK in low security had fallen short of the mark due to the tritanium index, it was about the fun, and chase, and dare I say GAME.

Now what's the point? You even take a day old player in a pod through low security these days and someone is scrambling to get on the next gate with smartbombs. There's no ransom, there's no fun, or challenge, it's just "i shotted u nub, lulz."

Having lived in low and null myself for more than a year now, I have become more the predator than the prey (altho being CEO does not lend itself to many opportunities to do more than push paper if you notice my poor GW signature Crying or Very sad that could use some TLC, altho I did take a break from end of Nov to just a week or two ago), though I do not pirate, and I can say that when I bring a member into the corporation the first thing I tell them is, "Read this guide I made on low sec travel, drop some ships off at this office in low sec, and get yer ass to null, and stay there, low sec is for research and assets, not living or income let alone fun."

That's a sad state of affairs IMO, because low sec PvP is vastly different than null, and just as entertaining, and a lot of us are missing out on what it used to be like when pirates acted like pirates.

I can play an FPS if I want "i shotted u nub, lulz" cuz that's all it amounts to. And I am sure most of the people who have soured on the content AND players present in low security space feel much the same way. Why bother? If I want to be obliterated the moment I spawn I can just logout and go play an FPS online.



Caldari Citizen20090217
Posted - 2010.01.06 20:04:00 - [102]
 

As a (mostly) carbear, I'd love to run missions etc in lowsec. However it makes no sense currently, as agents locations are fixed pirates know where missioners will be (fish in a barrel), the rewards are not enough to justify risk, resupply is harder, and the big killer is that you can be prevented from earning isk waiting for pirates to leave. Plus the station/gate camps.

Suggestions:

1) New mission/agent type:

- Only combat sites, against a faction of your choice (so u don't need to refit).
- Agent contactable thru addess book anywhere in lowsec.
- Mission spawns in the system you are in
- needs positive sec staus and (low) faction standing to access
- Rewards are >lvl 4 rewards, rats are cruiser/frigates with cruiser.BS bounties (50-100k frigs, 100k-500k bs?)
- Doable quickly in a cruiser/BC solo.
- No/minimal standing loss for failing, and no mission specific objects to get.

Aim is to unlock the mission sites from specific locations, and make loss affordable. Isk/hr with losses should still be around lvl4 upwards, and with lower entry requirements. Expect spread out, low populations of affordable ships floating around lowsec, and if someone flashy red moves in the prey will move on.

2) Change scanning defence:
Having to spam the scanner as fast as it will allow to spot the combat probes, else dock up/cloak whenever anyone is in local is not a solution. Don't know how to fix this, some sort of deployable that alerts u when a probe scans over it maybe? Or deployable decoys that look like ships on scan?

3) Sec status can only be regained by killing other flashies Twisted Evil. OK not 100% serious here and will get flamed to death anyhow, but sec status and especially bounties needs a review.

Zubakis
The Carebear Stare
Hydroponic Zone
Posted - 2010.01.06 20:18:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Mendolus
Edited by: Mendolus on 06/01/2010 20:06:11
Originally by: Liang Nuren


-Liang


I think the main part too in the grand scheme of things is that it is no longer exciting to be prey. It used to be even when I first started in the beginning of '08, that it was considered a challenge to run around in low sec and evade pirates. And you had a strong inclination to believe that the worst it would cost you was at the most maybe 75% the value or your ship and fittings, or 50% if the pirates were savvy on you ever showing up again to try and evade them another time.

It was not even about the ISK, even then in early '08 it was clear that ISK in low security had fallen short of the mark due to the tritanium index, it was about the fun, and chase, and dare I say GAME.

Now what's the point? You even take a day old player in a pod through low security these days and someone is scrambling to get on the next gate with smartbombs. There's no ransom, there's no fun, or challenge, it's just "i shotted u nub, lulz."

Having lived in low and null myself for more than a year now, I have become more the predator than the prey (altho being CEO does not lend itself to many opportunities to do more than push paper if you notice my poor GW signature Crying or Very sad that could use some TLC, altho I did take a break from end of Nov to just a week or two ago), though I do not pirate, and I can say that when I bring a member into the corporation the first thing I tell them is, "Read this guide I made on low sec travel, drop some ships off at this office in low sec, and get yer ass to null, and stay there, low sec is for research and assets, not living or income let alone fun."

That's a sad state of affairs IMO, because low sec PvP is vastly different than null, and just as entertaining, and a lot of us are missing out on what it used to be like when pirates acted like pirates.

I can play an FPS if I want "i shotted u nub, lulz" cuz that's all it amounts to. And I am sure most of the people who have soured on the content AND players present in low security space feel much the same way. Why bother? If I want to be obliterated the moment I spawn I can just logout and go play an FPS online.





People play this FPS in hisec and in 0.0 too. Only if someone kills a nub in lowsec it counts as a treat against humanity. WTF is wrong with you people?

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2010.01.06 20:27:00 - [104]
 

Edited by: Mendolus on 06/01/2010 20:30:51
Originally by: Zubakis

People play this FPS in hisec and in 0.0 too. Only if someone kills a nub in lowsec it counts as a treat against humanity. WTF is wrong with you people?



What have you been smoking? I think you got some bad seeds, bro.


Please do tell us how 0.0 and Empire are anything like Low Security space? Please, enlighten us nubs. You can start with bubbles... oh wait Razz

And it's not about it being right or wrong from some moral standpoint, it's about people shooting everything that moves, then *****ing and moaning when they have nothing left to shoot. Kind of counterproductive, dontcha think?


Zubakis
The Carebear Stare
Hydroponic Zone
Posted - 2010.01.06 20:33:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Mendolus
Edited by: Mendolus on 06/01/2010 20:27:49
Originally by: Zubakis

People play this FPS in hisec and in 0.0 too. Only if someone kills a nub in lowsec it counts as a treat against humanity. WTF is wrong with you people?



What have you been smoking? I think you got some bad seeds, bro.


Please do tell us how 0.0 and Empire are anything like Low Security space? Please, enlighten us nubs. You can start with bubbles... oh wait Razz






So you actually let pass nubs through your bubbles?

My point was that nubs get killed everywhere. Just go to every starting systems and look all this canbaiters. But somehow nobody mentioning it, only when a nub get killed in lowsec everyone screams up and point with finger at you.

Darcon Kylote
Posted - 2010.01.06 20:36:00 - [106]
 

To my mind, everything you are all complaining about is fixed in w-space.

There are huge rewards drawing in carebears despite the risk of being ganked. Nearly every class 1 and 2 w-space system is inhabited, and (in my experience) maybe half of all class 3's. I would venture to say that "shallow" w-space systems are more heavily occupied than lowsec is.

When we bear it up in wormholes, we make 2-3 times what we could be making for the same time spent doing level 4's in empire. This kind of dough is what's needed to get bears out of highsec.

There is no local so neither side can easily judge what the other side has, making it harder to avoid a "fair" fight.

There are more fun and interesting mechanics at play to add variety (probing, bubbles, variable mass & time limits on holes, smart rats that are a risk to both carebear and the ganker).

And unlike 0.0, there are no blobs.

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2010.01.06 20:37:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Zubakis

People play this FPS in hisec and in 0.0 too. Only if someone kills a nub in lowsec it counts as a treat against humanity. WTF is wrong with you people?



You wanna know the irony of it all? These new pirates, if they can even be called that, are basically carebears. They shoot ANYTHING that is not in their gang, and when it's all dead, they clamor for more. Sounds like a mission runner to me, only a mission runner can simply talk to an NPC agent.

So, a fix for low sec, skeet agents! NPC agents belonging to pirate corporations, that one talks to, and a multitude of random NPC ships with fittings, that look like players, but are not actual players, come screaming through the system as the gang of pirates tries to snag and pop them. Some fight back, some do not, some have juicies, some do not, but to complete the mission, one must pop some X number of skeets.

Viola! Pirate carebears! And a solution to low sec! Targets, targets for all!

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.01.06 20:40:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 06/01/2010 20:46:19
Originally by: Zubakis
So you actually let pass nubs through your bubbles?

My point was that nubs get killed everywhere. Just go to every starting systems and look all this canbaiters. But somehow nobody mentioning it, only when a nub get killed in lowsec everyone screams up and point with finger at you.
Dude, seriosly Shocked.

Pirates are whining about the lack of targets in lo sec and people are telling you why there's a lack of targets in lo sec.

Your argument is akin to:

You: "Hey! Why is no one driving through Ghetto St. anymore?"
Me: "Because if I drive through Ghetto St. I get shot."
You: "There's people getting shot in Africa too! Why aren't you complaining about Africa?"
Me: "Because you're whining about Ghetto St., not some random street in Africa."

The dynamics of low sec and hi sec are totally different. And even though there may be noob baiting, etc, it's not at a level that impedes average Joe Schmoe from going about his business.


Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2010.01.06 20:42:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Mendolus on 06/01/2010 20:45:16
Originally by: Zubakis

So you actually let pass nubs through your bubbles?

My point was that nubs get killed everywhere. Just go to every starting systems and look all this canbaiters. But somehow nobody mentioning it, only when a nub get killed in lowsec everyone screams up and point with finger at you.



Here's how I know you do not have any idea what you are talking about:

1) Targets (depending on ship) zip through the best of drag or sling bubble camps ALL THE TIME, that's part of the fun. If they could NEVER make it through, they would stop trying, sound familiar?
2) You keep talking about points no one here is trying to make instead of arguing against the points we ARE trying to make.
3) No one here is saying carebears or newbies shouldn't be equally responsible for whether they live or die if they venture into low or null.
4) What we are saying is that over farming of targets in a formerly target rich environment has yielded *GASP* an environment fairly void of targets. Amazing!




Zubakis
The Carebear Stare
Hydroponic Zone
Posted - 2010.01.06 20:46:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Dude, seriosly Shocked.

Pirates are whining about the lack of targets in lo sec and people are telling you why there's a lack of targets in lo sec.

Your argument is akin to:

You: "Hey! Why is no one driving through Ghetto St. anymore?"
Me: "Because if I walk through Ghetto St. I get shot."
You: "There's people getting shot in Africa too! Why aren't you complaining about Africa?"
Me: "Because you're whining about Ghetto St., not some street in Africa."




What? Learn to follow the conversation.


And i personally not complaining about lack of targets, i said it more than enough in this thread.

My complain is about lack of content and lack of good ways to make money. Time spent in lowsec is better spent somewhere else.

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2010.01.06 20:48:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Dude, seriosly Shocked.

Pirates are whining about the lack of targets in lo sec and people are telling you why there's a lack of targets in lo sec.

Your argument is akin to:

You: "Hey! Why is no one driving through Ghetto St. anymore?"
Me: "Because if I walk through Ghetto St. I get shot."
You: "There's people getting shot in Africa too! Why aren't you complaining about Africa?"
Me: "Because you're whining about Ghetto St., not some street in Africa."




What? Learn to follow the conversation.


And i personally not complaining about lack of targets, i said it more than enough in this thread.

My complain is about lack of content and lack of good ways to make money. Time spent in lowsec is better spent somewhere else.



Because of two things, one content driven, one player driven:

1) Tritanium index
2) Over farming by player pirates

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.01.06 20:51:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 06/01/2010 20:55:47
Originally by: Zubakis
What? Learn to follow the conversation.


And i personally not complaining about lack of targets, i said it more than enough in this thread.

My complain is about lack of content and lack of good ways to make money. Time spent in lowsec is better spent somewhere else.
No. I think YOU need to follow the conversation. You're not understanding that there is a difference in mechanics between lo sec and hi sec. And you're trying to compare noob-baiting in hi sec with the rampant kill-everything-that-moves ideology prevalent in lo sec. You're derailing the topic by employing bait-and-switch tactics where none have anything to do with the discussion at hand. If you want to debate what the benefits and short-comings of living in hi sec are then fine. You could start a new thread on that or even discuss it here. But stop trying to mix them like they somehow are the same because they are not.


Lucas Lucias
Posted - 2010.01.06 20:54:00 - [113]
 

One thing that puts me off sending my main into Low Sec for a bit of fun with ships I can afford to lose is my implants, I used to go into an adjacent sector quite often, but stopped once I had ploughed lots of money into implants. I have debated setting up a jump clone near to low sec for this but have been unable to do so, so in this end I use this poorly skilled alt to pop into low sec where I get killed very quickly. So if there was some mechanism to help there that would help, its not just the ships you know.

I like the ECM idea very much, I also think that perhaps something to enable you to pre-empt with a higher status without gate guns blasting you in addition to the pirates would be a good idea, or better still having the gate guns fire in support. This means that pirates will find gate camping a bit more difficult and may balance up a bit these large number of blobs.

Zubakis
The Carebear Stare
Hydroponic Zone
Posted - 2010.01.06 20:55:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
... the rampant kill-everything-that-moves ideology prevalent in lo sec....


And how 0.0 is different from this? Everything that's not blue is getting killed too, no matter what ship he flies and how old the player is. (Well there are some exceptions, like CVA, but they are very rare)

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.01.06 21:00:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
... the rampant kill-everything-that-moves ideology prevalent in lo sec....


And how 0.0 is different from this? Everything that's not blue is getting killed too, no matter what ship he flies and how old the player is. (Well there are some exceptions, like CVA, but they are very rare)
And I've also expressed my concern on that a few times in this thread as well. You're right, it happens in 0.0 too. But there are differences between 0.0 and lo sec as well. The most important difference being that you can become part of the mega-structure doing the shooting or even blue. The point is 0.0 is hella organized for the most part. Low sec isn't. Carebears still have an opportunity to strive in 0.0. Low sec is a different beast; perhaps harder for the carebear to survive. That's my point. Even though "the same" may be happening in hi sec/0.0, because the mechanics and interactions are different there may be ways around these problems. In low sec the most efficient way to get around these problems is by simply not going there because it isn't worth it.


Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Posted - 2010.01.06 21:00:00 - [116]
 

Edited by: Mendolus on 06/01/2010 21:00:40
Originally by: Zubakis
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
... the rampant kill-everything-that-moves ideology prevalent in lo sec....


And how 0.0 is different from this? Everything that's not blue is getting killed too, no matter what ship he flies and how old the player is. (Well there are some exceptions, like CVA, but they are very rare)



See, this is the new pirate mentality. Only the kill matters, whether it is a day old trial player in a pod or not, no politics, no player driven content, just log on, shoot ****, and hope people keep showing up for your own personal amusement at the expense of their own. Brilliant.




Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.01.06 21:03:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Zubakis
And how 0.0 is different from this? Everything that's not blue is getting killed too, no matter what ship he flies and how old the player is. (Well there are some exceptions, like CVA, but they are very rare)



0.0 has player alliances and intel channels. I've found sov 0.0 to be significantly safer for carebearing than lowsec.

-Liang

BeachParty
Caldari
Semi Precious
Posted - 2010.01.06 21:19:00 - [118]
 

Low sec has valuable industry great sites strong informal alliances fast intel free vent servers and great FC's. Thats why things Die fast.

-Beach Party

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.01.06 21:25:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: BeachParty
Low sec has valuable industry great sites strong informal alliances fast intel free vent servers and great FC's. Thats why things Die fast.

-Beach Party
Laughing Dude! I just threw up a little from my nose Evil or Very Mad


BeachParty
Caldari
Semi Precious
Posted - 2010.01.06 21:38:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: BeachParty on 06/01/2010 21:38:30
It's Just nerves.

-Beach Party


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