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blankseplocked Low-sec gate camp: Impossible to escape?
 
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:55:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 02/01/2010 00:57:42
Originally by: Marko Riva
Was about to reply but then saw Lark's, which is similar to what I wanted to type.


I typed my post above before noticing that. Embarassed

Yeah, Larkonis gave a perfect description of the proper maneuver in that situation. There's not much to add.

Gilishio
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:58:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
Originally by: Gilishio

Anything besides a 25 man fleet fitted for war, or a inertia stabbed/WCS covert ops ship will get locked and blown up in less then a second in any gate camp in low sec.


I'm glad you're finally coming around to the practical reality of the situation. Wink



Yup yup! now get out there and waste a buncha skill points for cov ops to get by an easy camp. Or better yet!! waste 24 more peoples time to get that big fleet together. Make sure you explain to them "Guys, there is no messing around, this is a srs bsns low sec gate camp we got here, be ready!!" See you in your pod Laughing

Zairo Kul
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:03:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
Originally by: Taedrin

Uhhhhh... escaping a gate camp is easy. First of all, I am almost positive that you can still cloak if someone is in the process of targeting you. I've gotten through lots of gate camps before, and never had trouble engaging my cloak. Cov ops cloaks make things incredibly easy, even, as you don't need to drop cloak to enter warp.


The excerpt from my log (original post above) demonstrates why that is not true.

Btw: I think the people who say that one has about a second (if that) to escape are correct. Add in the latency factor, and I think one has virtually zero chance to escape under those circumstances.

The excerpt from your log is idiotic. It took you a full three seconds to hit the cloak button after starting to move? Of course you got locked.

And you are dead wrong, you can cloak while people are beginning to target you. Your confusion stems from the fact that some ships lock so fast, it takes about half a second after being targeted for the fact that you're being targeted to show up on your UI. Stealth bomber pilots take advantage of this fact all the time, cloaking while larger ships are in the process of targeting them in order to break all the potential locks. I would know... I fly stealth bombers myself sometimes.

Sorted
DEATH'S LEGION
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:12:00 - [34]
 

bloody pirates, scum of eve.

YARRRR!!

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:13:00 - [35]
 

nobody expects the Spanish inquisition!!!

Milana Arkani
Caldari
Strategic Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:14:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Zairo Kul

Blah blah blah...


Suggestion: Learn to read before you comment.


Pesets
The Hunt Club
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:23:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
I clicked the full speed icon and then immediately clicked the cloak button.


You don't click the cloak button. You PRESS it. Every module in the top row can be activated with an F# key (i.e. F1, F2, etc). You can also move those icons around, to put non-highslot modules into the top row. Also, clicking "full speed" by itself is pretty meaningless in most cases, you usually want to either align to a celestial or approach the gate.

You should press the F-key as soon as you click "align". I tap it a couple of times cause if you tap it too early it sometimes tells you you're still cloaked - but you gotta practice the timing, because if you tap it an extra time too late it will disengage and then you can't reactivate it for several seconds.

And it's been like that since forever, so apparently it is the way it's meant to be played. And yes, two seconds to lock a battlecruiser is plenty of time, even for non-specialized ship.

Originally by: Milana Arkani
A lot of you don't seem to understand that mouse clicks/button presses are not necessarily *instantaneously* recognized/transmitted in EVE.


What matters is making sure that your commands follow each other immediately. Then that's the way they will reach the server. And you should realize it's the same for the other side (when they see you decloak, chances are you're already cloaked on the server if you're doing it right - and it takes some time for their lock commands to reach the server). Sadly, at present level of technology you can't really escape latency issues in online games.

Of course as Tippia said, cloaking by itself doesn't help a whole lot, since someone can still burn out towards you and decloak you.

Milana Arkani
Caldari
Strategic Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:24:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Le Skunk
nobody expects the Spanish inquisition!!!


Ha ha ha! Very Happy

This is the guy/corp who killed me. Very Happy

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:25:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
Originally by: Le Skunk
nobody expects the Spanish inquisition!!!


Ha ha ha! Very Happy

This is the guy/corp who killed me. Very Happy


I wish you good luck in future

SKUNK

Kessiaan
Minmatar
Vagrants Inc
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:26:00 - [40]
 

3 seconds is way to slow. You can make up any excuse you want, you're still to slow.

Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:27:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
Originally by: Le Skunk
nobody expects the Spanish inquisition!!!


Ha ha ha! Very Happy

This is the guy/corp who killed me. Very Happy


3 years ago he would have been killing you in high sec instead. Be happy. Smile

Milana Arkani
Caldari
Strategic Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:32:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Pesets

What matters is making sure that your commands follow each other immediately. Then that's the way they will reach the server. And you should realize it's the same for the other side (when they see you decloak, chances are you're already cloaked on the server if you're doing it right - and it takes some time for their lock commands to reach the server). Sadly, at present level of technology you can't really escape latency issues in online games. (Etc.)


Thanks. Good comments by you and a few others. Smile

(I like all of the practical/realistic comments, rather than incorrect kneejerk flames.)

dtyk
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:34:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
I jump into a 0.4 sec system in my Ferox with 2 WCS and a Cloaking Device.

Upon arriving on the other side, I see about 10 red blinky hostile ships about 15-20km away (clearly a gatecamp).

Still cloaked after the jump, I guess that my best method of escape is to tap my engines for a second and immediately cloak.

But apparently that is not good enough.

Within that time period, I am *immediately* targeted, so my cloaking device doesn't work.

[ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s
[ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone.

Shortly thereafter: Pop.

*Zero* chance to escape. WTF...

(Is that really reasonable? If so, then there is NO safe way to jump into low-sec space.)

Btw: How do people successfully target my ship within 2-3 seconds? (My understanding is: One needs to get a target LOCK on my ship to prevent my cloaking, correct?)










Even accounting for latency, you WERE simply too slow. An interceptor and a lot of other things, especially if remote boosted, wouldn't have trouble locking a BC in a second. A BC is a large ship when compared to a frigate, and inties are really fast lockers anyway. You should have hit your cloak before they got their mouse over your name.

And of course burning back to the gate would have worked if you had had enough tank to survive for the time it takes to MWD to a gate (shouldn't be more than 10 seconds tops for a BC).

And no, low-sec isn't safe. But escaping gate camps in low sec is relatively easy especially if you've had any practice on it, since there's no bubbles waiting on the other side if it's low sec. And escaping even bubbled camps is very much possible.

Baitin
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:36:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Baitin on 02/01/2010 01:36:20
Eve runs in 1 second "ticks" generally. There is no way an attacker can target a cloaker before cloaking if the cloaker aligns and cloaks in rapid succession since both commands will be executed by the server in the same "tick". On top of that the attacker will be the one contending with latency not the cloaker.

Chalk this up to a learning experience. You where way to slow to cloak thats what got you killed. You can without fail hit align and and hit cloak and get both executed by the server in the same tick. the attacker will see you for a short while on his overview but there is not any actual time to start targeting before the target is cloaked.

This is not about twitch, its just a matter of hovering you mouse over the align button and you finger over the cloak button, click mouse, click cloak. Don't look at your ship and wait for it to decloak

Or the advanced version, hit align, hit mwd, hit cloak.

You might still die, if the gatecamp is halfway competent. But thats pvp for you.

Experiment in high sec if your still unsure how it works.

db T
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:49:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: db T on 02/01/2010 01:49:29
ITT: People who never played EVE.

Lowsec is still easy as hell to get through. The only real "problem" I've run into is smartbombing battleships vs light ships, and I don't have a bookmark above the gate. Even then it's not impossible, it just takes a while to drain your cap.

No, lowsec gatecamps are by no means impossible to escape if you have a cloak and mwd. If you want to know how, read and LadySpanks reply and stop being a ****ing ***** to people explaining how you fail, you insecure ***.

Swiftgaze
Elysium Trading Company
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:50:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer

Hit align.
As soon as you decloak hit F1 and F2.
Hover your mouse over the 'warp to' button.
Watch your MWD tick over... once the cycle is complete and it turns off immeadiately hit F2 to decloak.
Hit warp.
Smack local.



Your post is nice and all, but "hit warp" means hovering through a ridiculously annoying menu which takes about 2 seconds on its own.

I really wish there was a "warp button" that would warp you to a marked object. :(

Lork Niffle
Gallente
External Hard Drive
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:53:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Lork Niffle on 02/01/2010 01:55:15
Whats the issue with the warp menu.

You have 30 seconds after going through ghte gate to get your senses. You then taking your time find an object you want and hit align. All while doing this you can have your hands over the F1 and F2 key (assuming they are your MWD and cloak). Then assuming you can press both a split second after hitting align (all this is still while you are auto-cloaked), you are in the home straight. Wait for MWD to tick over and warp to the object.

Can't be easier.

Clair Bear
Ursine Research and Production
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:54:00 - [48]
 

There is an easier, foolproof way to escape lowsec gatecamps. And like most things in eve it requires metagaming (read: more than one account).

Send in an untrained alt in a rookie ship. If the coast is clear, go. If not, it's a judgement call. If you think the p-rats will be dumb enough to blindly pounce on the rookie alt letting you get through, go. Most of the time I'll just keep warping the rookie alt to get podded until they get bored of gate gun aggro and leave, then continue on my journey.

If everyone did this we'd have far fewer lowsec gatecamps.

And oh yeah, WCS have been worthless ever since hictors. Fit istabs instead.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:57:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
[ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s
[ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone.

I would suggest not taking bio breaks between clicking move and cloak.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:59:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
(I like all of the practical/realistic comments, rather than incorrect kneejerk flames.)
The funny thing is, the only incorrect statements in the thread are the ones that support the posits made in the OP, whereas the most spot-on, correct statements are probably the ones you think of as flames.

Pesets
The Hunt Club
Posted - 2010.01.02 01:59:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Swiftgaze
I really wish there was a "warp button" that would warp you to a marked object. :(


Last i checked, the "warp to" button was literally right next to "align to" button. They're both on "selected item" window. Relying on tutorial recommendations will get you killed.

Unless you're trolling, in which case nevermind.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2010.01.02 02:03:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: chatgris
Originally by: Milana Arkani
[ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s
[ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone.


44 - 47: 3 seconds? no wonder you were caught. there shouldn't even be a second between the time you hit align and the time you hit cloak.


To highlight exactly how long 3 seconds is, an unskilled, unfitted taranis can target an average battlecruiser in 1.1 seconds (according to EFT). A single scripted sensor booster brings it down to .6 seconds. A scripted remote sensor booster brings it down to .5 seconds.

When trying to escape a gate camp, you want to activate your cloak an instant after you tell your ship to align - don't wait for your ship to decloak. The idea is to get the client to send the signal to cloak your ship before the server even notifies the gate camp that you ship has decloaked in front of them. Lag is on YOUR side here, as you don't have to wait for a response from the server before attempting to cloak your ship. So long as you do something to drop the gate cloak before activating your cloak, you should be fine.

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2010.01.02 02:12:00 - [53]
 

This thread is redundant.

Everyone knows im the second best tackler in the game

SKUNK

Night Epoch
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.01.02 02:20:00 - [54]
 

Not to beat a dead horse, but this:

[ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s
[ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone.

is a major part of your problem.

3 seconds is an absolute eternity in PVP. You need to cloak the very instant you start aligning (thereby dropping your gate cloak). And to echo Taedrin above me, lag works to YOUR advantage when you jump into a gate camp.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2010.01.02 02:20:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Le Skunk
This thread is redundant.

Gave me someone to wardec at least.

How long did his dual tank last?

Milana Arkani
Caldari
Strategic Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2010.01.02 02:21:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Le Skunk
This thread is redundant.

Everyone knows im the second best tackler in the game

SKUNK


Probably true! If I read one more comment about how "slow" I am, I'm going to ask you to please set up a new gate camp, so all these "elite clickers" can test their mad gate camp escape skillz. Very Happy

Btw: Good job, man. Wink

Baitin
Posted - 2010.01.02 02:29:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Baitin on 02/01/2010 02:31:32
Dude we're not actually trolling you, you where to slow, some of us have escaped countless gatecamps by align+mwd+cloak, lot of them in zero sec where there's actually bubbles to prevent you from warping and a LOT more then 10 people camping the gates.

Fact is, if you do it right, NO ONE can target you before cloaking it JUST CAN'T BE DONE. you might get decloaked and popped afterwards though.

well actualy, if you're stupidly unlucky you will port in within 2 kilometers of another ship and then you can't actually cloak. But thats extremely rare.

Larkonis TrassIer
State Breast Inspectorate
Posted - 2010.01.02 02:35:00 - [58]
 

I miss warp to 15 and the old sniper gatecamps myself

Spoon Thumb
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2010.01.02 02:40:00 - [59]
 


It's worth pointing out that you don't get many inties in low sec camping gates due to their vulnerability to gate guns

For sure a well set up 0.0 gate camp will have inty and fast ship pilots who know what they're doing in regard to decloaking people, but those same pilots tend to want to get on killmails rather than just spend all day waiting for someone with a cloak to jump in so they can click approach.

I'd put myself in the camp that says "use a scout". Doesn't even have to be on a different account. Could even be a friend / corpmate in a fast warping ship or worthless noob ship.

I wouldn't try and run back to gate in a ferox. Even mwd blaster setup ferox is going to have a hard time making it if it gets webbed. But for other ships, sure

Also some camps I've been in have increasingly started to use super-fast locking ships, the sort that have a chance at locking during the fraction second between jump-cloak and the ship's cloak. Especially in 0.0 where massive radius region gates otherwise force you to need multiple dictors and a heap of inties to catch FOTM stealth bombers

Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.01.02 02:50:00 - [60]
 

Low sec gate camps is the main reason I dont bother with low-sec.

They are virtually impossible to escape. Not to mention warp bubbles planted right at the gate itself.

If CCP wants people to move into low-sec, they will have to address these two issues.

I like a fight as long as it's fair, but there is nothing fair about low-sec gate camps.


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