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Milana Arkani
Caldari
Strategic Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2010.01.01 23:06:00 - [1]
 

I jump into a 0.4 sec system in my Ferox with 2 WCS and a Cloaking Device.

Upon arriving on the other side, I see about 10 red blinky hostile ships about 15-20km away (clearly a gatecamp).

Still cloaked after the jump, I guess that my best method of escape is to tap my engines for a second and immediately cloak.

But apparently that is not good enough.

Within that time period, I am *immediately* targeted, so my cloaking device doesn't work.

[ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s
[ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone.

Shortly thereafter: Pop.

*Zero* chance to escape. WTF...

(Is that really reasonable? If so, then there is NO safe way to jump into low-sec space.)

Btw: How do people successfully target my ship within 2-3 seconds? (My understanding is: One needs to get a target LOCK on my ship to prevent my cloaking, correct?)








Wet Ferret
Posted - 2010.01.01 23:08:00 - [2]
 

Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you. So you need to align and cloak in one swift motion basically, to give them no time to click on you. A little bad luck and latency will get you killed though...

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2010.01.01 23:13:00 - [3]
 

You have to instantly cloak before someone targets you. Triple boosted HICs will catch almost anything.

Milana Arkani
Caldari
Strategic Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2010.01.01 23:16:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Milana Arkani on 01/01/2010 23:19:57
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you.


Wow, that sucks, imo. Completely ridiculous, imo.

Incidentally, is there any documentation that details that "feature"? (I think not.)

So, in summary: There is no practical way to escape a low-sec gate camp. Great...

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.01.01 23:20:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you.


Wow, that sucks, imo. Completely ridiculous, imo.

Incidentally, is there any documentation that details that "feature"? (I think not.)

So, in summary: There is no practical way to escape a zero-sec gate camp. Great...


Practice clicking align to on a celestial and hitting the F key for your cloak at very nearly the same time. As the previous poster said, a 0 lock hic will still catch you, but aside from that, you should be able to cloak before they can start targeting you once you get that sequence down.

If you're not using your cloak's hot key, though, you will get caught every time. Clicking's too slow in this case.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2010.01.01 23:21:00 - [6]
 

You should have done some research before taking a BC to low sec.

Having put yourself in that position your best chance for survival is to wait out the session change timer and mwd back to gate.

Inappropriate content removed.Applebabe

Mrs Thaiberian
Posted - 2010.01.01 23:25:00 - [7]
 

Well, they were 10 you just one.. why should you have any chance of scape?

If they were 10 and you were 8-12.. then sure you would have got more chances.

This is just pure logic.. but I agree with you that gate camping sucks.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2010.01.01 23:25:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
Edited by: Milana Arkani on 01/01/2010 23:19:57
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you.


Wow, that sucks, imo. Completely ridiculous, imo.

Incidentally, is there any documentation that details that "feature"? (I think not.)

So, in summary: There is no practical way to escape a low-sec gate camp. Great...


Uhhhhh... escaping a gate camp is easy. First of all, I am almost positive that you can still cloak if someone is in the process of targeting you. I've gotten through lots of gate camps before, and never had trouble engaging my cloak. Cov ops cloaks make things incredibly easy, even, as you don't need to drop cloak to enter warp.

Larkonis TrassIer
State Breast Inspectorate
Posted - 2010.01.01 23:30:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Wet Ferret
Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you.


That was a bug that lasted for about 24 hours 2 years ago.

It's easy to avoid most lowsec gatecamps because most of those who man them are.

A. Lazy
B. Stupid
C. Lazy and stupid

WCS will not save you. Fit for speed/agility in your lows, fit a mwd and an improved cloak (note: this is important).
Drag your MWD to your F1 key and your cloak to your F2 key.

Upon jumping into a camp DON'T PANIC. You have 60 seconds before you decloak automatically. Look at where you are in relation to the gate and your outbound gate. If the gate you are on is roughly in line with the outbound then pick a celestial that isn't. If not then select the outbound and hover your mouse over the 'align' button on your overview.

Hit align.
As soon as you decloak hit F1 and F2.
Hover your mouse over the 'warp to' button.
Watch your MWD tick over... once the cycle is complete and it turns off immeadiately hit F2 to decloak.
Hit warp.
Smack local.

Using this method you should be able to get all but the fattest ships (orcas) through most gatecamps unless they have a couple of switched on T2 cruisers with MWDs on the camp.

Milana Arkani
Caldari
Strategic Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2010.01.01 23:40:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Taedrin

Uhhhhh... escaping a gate camp is easy. First of all, I am almost positive that you can still cloak if someone is in the process of targeting you. I've gotten through lots of gate camps before, and never had trouble engaging my cloak. Cov ops cloaks make things incredibly easy, even, as you don't need to drop cloak to enter warp.


The excerpt from my log (original post above) demonstrates why that is not true.

Btw: I think the people who say that one has about a second (if that) to escape are correct. Add in the latency factor, and I think one has virtually zero chance to escape under those circumstances.

Jebidus Skari
Comply Or Die
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
Posted - 2010.01.01 23:49:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you.


That was a bug that lasted for about 24 hours 2 years ago.

It's easy to avoid most lowsec gatecamps because most of those who man them are.

A. Lazy
B. Stupid
C. Lazy and stupid

WCS will not save you. Fit for speed/agility in your lows, fit a mwd and an improved cloak (note: this is important).
Drag your MWD to your F1 key and your cloak to your F2 key.

Upon jumping into a camp DON'T PANIC. You have 60 seconds before you decloak automatically. Look at where you are in relation to the gate and your outbound gate. If the gate you are on is roughly in line with the outbound then pick a celestial that isn't. If not then select the outbound and hover your mouse over the 'align' button on your overview.

Hit align.
As soon as you decloak hit F1 and F2.
Hover your mouse over the 'warp to' button.
Watch your MWD tick over... once the cycle is complete and it turns off immeadiately hit F2 to decloak.
Hit warp.
Smack local.

Using this method you should be able to get all but the fattest ships (orcas) through most gatecamps unless they have a couple of switched on T2 cruisers with MWDs on the camp.


nice to see someone giving some proper advise!
OP needs to understand that you are going into LOW SEC thats the risk you take with respect.
Also remember yes you fit a cloak but gives no guarantee of survival, only covert ps can warp cloaked. But if your in say a BC and they spot you decloaking even for a split second they can be on you and decloak you in seconds, as you cant warp anywhere anyway, and you can go like only 10kms and alot of people use drones to decloak you.

So tbh and the moral of the story is go in low sec at your own risk, or get an alt to check the system first before jumping in.

Intense Thinker
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.01.01 23:55:00 - [12]
 

Funny thing is, the op is a 2006 character... ebay much? Laughing

ratamnimb
Posted - 2010.01.01 23:56:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
I jump into a 0.4 sec system in my Ferox with 2 WCS and a Cloaking Device.

Upon arriving on the other side, I see about 10 red blinky hostile ships about 15-20km away (clearly a gatecamp).

Still cloaked after the jump, I guess that my best method of escape is to tap my engines for a second and immediately cloak.

But apparently that is not good enough.

Within that time period, I am *immediately* targeted, so my cloaking device doesn't work.

[ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s
[ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone.

Shortly thereafter: Pop.

*Zero* chance to escape. WTF...

(Is that really reasonable? If so, then there is NO safe way to jump into low-sec space.)

Btw: How do people successfully target my ship within 2-3 seconds? (My understanding is: One needs to get a target LOCK on my ship to prevent my cloaking, correct?)










Hahahaha.

Milana Arkani
Caldari
Strategic Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:04:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Jebidus Skari

nice to see someone giving some proper advise!
OP needs to understand that you are going into LOW SEC thats the risk you take with respect.
Also remember yes you fit a cloak but gives no guarantee of survival, only covert ps can warp cloaked. But if your in say a BC and they spot you decloaking even for a split second they can be on you and decloak you in seconds, as you cant warp anywhere anyway, and you can go like only 10kms and alot of people use drones to decloak you.

So tbh and the moral of the story is go in low sec at your own risk, or get an alt to check the system first before jumping in.


By your logic, the ONLY people who should ever venture into low-sec space are covert ops or fleets of ships.

Or, fly an alt in to get killed first.

Again, so idiotic...

Is that really the way this game is meant to be played? I think not.

Btw: Risk is fine. But inescapable guaranteed insta-death is really lame, imo.

Babel
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:05:00 - [15]
 

You could mail and ask one of the 6 guys that popped you. I'd place my money on SeBo/Rem-SeBo setup on the Devoter, or one of the Rapiers.

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:09:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
[ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s
[ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone.


44 - 47: 3 seconds? no wonder you were caught. there shouldn't even be a second between the time you hit align and the time you hit cloak.

d3vo
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:10:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
Edited by: Milana Arkani on 01/01/2010 23:19:57
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you.


Wow, that sucks, imo. Completely ridiculous, imo.


/agreed

Doesn't make sense. The process of "locking a target" shouldn't be considered the same when you've already "locked the target".

Jebidus Skari
Comply Or Die
Drunk 'n' Disorderly
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:11:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
Originally by: Jebidus Skari

nice to see someone giving some proper advise!
OP needs to understand that you are going into LOW SEC thats the risk you take with respect.
Also remember yes you fit a cloak but gives no guarantee of survival, only covert ps can warp cloaked. But if your in say a BC and they spot you decloaking even for a split second they can be on you and decloak you in seconds, as you cant warp anywhere anyway, and you can go like only 10kms and alot of people use drones to decloak you.

So tbh and the moral of the story is go in low sec at your own risk, or get an alt to check the system first before jumping in.


By your logic, the ONLY people who should ever venture into low-sec space are covert ops or fleets of ships.

Or, fly an alt in to get killed first.

Again, so idiotic...

Is that really the way this game is meant to be played? I think not.

Btw: Risk is fine. But inescapable guaranteed insta-death is really lame, imo.



there is no point getting upset about it..thats low sec..and yes you should check the system first before you jump in really only some idiot wouldnt..its LOW SEC its hostile what you think you should be able to jump in and go on your merry way! stay in high sec if you want that!
TBH in any space if theres a gate camp and your NOT in a small fast ship your dead simple..its like warp bubbles in 0.0..i mean a gate camp and you cant warp damn..what next...

seriously either use your brain and use caution or dont bother...

Larkonis TrassIer
State Breast Inspectorate
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:12:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
Originally by: Jebidus Skari

nice to see someone giving some proper advise!
OP needs to understand that you are going into LOW SEC thats the risk you take with respect.
Also remember yes you fit a cloak but gives no guarantee of survival, only covert ps can warp cloaked. But if your in say a BC and they spot you decloaking even for a split second they can be on you and decloak you in seconds, as you cant warp anywhere anyway, and you can go like only 10kms and alot of people use drones to decloak you.

So tbh and the moral of the story is go in low sec at your own risk, or get an alt to check the system first before jumping in.


By your logic, the ONLY people who should ever venture into low-sec space are covert ops or fleets of ships.

Or, fly an alt in to get killed first.

Again, so idiotic...

Is that really the way this game is meant to be played? I think not.

Btw: Risk is fine. But inescapable guaranteed insta-death is really lame, imo.



It's escapable if your not an moran. Read up to my earlier post. Or I suspect you are probably trolling if you are unwilling to take any of the advice that has been offered here.
Lowsec/0.0 require a different skillset to survive in as opposed to Highsec.
Gatecamps of all varieties are easy to avoid in most ships with a bit of knowhow.

Milana Arkani
Caldari
Strategic Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:18:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: chatgris
Originally by: Milana Arkani
[ 2010.01.01 22:34:44 ] (notify) Speed changed to 168 m/s
[ 2010.01.01 22:34:47 ] (notify) You cannot cloak your ship as you are being targeted by someone.


44 - 47: 3 seconds? no wonder you were caught. there shouldn't even be a second between the time you hit align and the time you hit cloak.


I clicked the full speed icon and then immediately clicked the cloak button.

Of course, there is also some latency.

(Btw: The log time is also probably truncated to the nearest second. So, it is not necessarily 3 full seconds.)

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:20:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 02/01/2010 00:23:44
bah. Ninja'd by eons. Crying or Very sad

Nevertheless, it doesn't matter if it was 2.01 or 3.99 seconds between the two – a properly set-up tackler should have your battlecruiser locked in, oh, 0.5 seconds or so…

Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:22:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Wet Ferret
Cloak can't be engaged if someone even begins targeting you. So you need to align and cloak in one swift motion basically, to give them no time to click on you. A little bad luck and latency will get you killed though...


Unless this a new thing implemented while I've been away from the game, I am 100% sure that it is not the case.


What I thing probably happened here is the op waited for the ship to visually fully decloak on his screen before trying to turn on cloaking. That means he was uncloaked and targetable for several seconds before attempting to cloak. That's enough time to get locked.

You have to doubleclick to start moving, and then hit the cloak right away.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:29:00 - [23]
 

Since you continue to show how arrogant and disrespectful you are, I demand 500m or a wardec goes live in about 48 hours.

Then you can whine about high sec too Rolling Eyes

Milana Arkani
Caldari
Strategic Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:29:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 02/01/2010 00:21:12
bah. Ninja'd by eons. Crying or Very sad


Seriously: There was no time to escape.

A lot of you don't seem to understand that mouse clicks/button presses are not necessarily *instantaneously* recognized/transmitted in EVE.

Btw: Ironically, I switched to EVE a while ago to get away from games where muscle twitch/low-latency rules.

So, please no more silly comments that neglect all considerations of latency.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:33:00 - [25]
 

Was about to reply but then saw Lark's, which is similar to what I wanted to type.

Milana Arkani
Caldari
Strategic Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:34:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Tippia

Nevertheless, it doesn't matter if it was 2.01 or 3.99 seconds between the two – a properly set-up tackler should have your battlecruiser locked in, oh, 0.5 seconds or so…


Exactly! Precisely the point.






Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:36:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 02/01/2010 00:37:32
Originally by: Milana Arkani
Seriously: There was no time to escape.
Seriously: yes there was, but you would have had to be a lot quicker about it than you were, and the cloak and WCSes alone wouldn't have saved you. People are not neglecting latency – in fact, I'd guess that just about everyone who's offering an opinion on those three seconds are people who've been in the exact same situation you were in and who've gotten away with it…

…well, they've gotten away with the cloaking bit, at least – not necessarily with getting away, as such. Razz
Originally by: Milana Arkani
Originally by: Tippia

Nevertheless, it doesn't matter if it was 2.01 or 3.99 seconds between the two – a properly set-up tackler should have your battlecruiser locked in, oh, 0.5 seconds or so…
Exactly! Precisely the point.
…and that ½ second is enough to get your cloak on as well. Again, the issue you should be worrying about isn't hiding, but how to get out of there, which is the difficult part.

Gilishio
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:37:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 02/01/2010 00:21:12
bah. Ninja'd by eons. Crying or Very sad


Seriously: There was no time to escape.

A lot of you don't seem to understand that mouse clicks/button presses are not necessarily *instantaneously* recognized/transmitted in EVE.

Btw: Ironically, I switched to EVE a while ago to get away from games where muscle twitch/low-latency rules.

So, please no more silly comments that neglect all considerations of latency.


Ok, fine. You have been completely ignoring everyone's posts with actual information and reasons on why it happened so lets see if this works.

You're right!!!11

Anything besides a 25 man fleet fitted for war, or a inertia stabbed/WCS covert ops ship will get locked and blown up in less then a second in any gate camp in low sec ever.

Never go into low-sec ever again with anything but a cov ops or a huge fleet. From your stubborn prospective, problem solved.

Actually, just never go into low-sec again in general. Problem solved without even having to press a button and worry about latency!

See?! I can do it too!

Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:42:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Milana Arkani
Originally by: Lady Spank
You should have done some research before taking a BC to low sec.

Having put yourself in that position your best chance for survival is to wait out the session change timer and mwd back to gate.

Inappropriate content removed.Applebabe





I escaped a 6 man camp by MWD'ing back to the gate in my Drake. It won't work all the time, but it's better than fitting cloaks and WCS on your PvP ship.

Milana Arkani
Caldari
Strategic Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2010.01.02 00:47:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Gilishio

Anything besides a 25 man fleet fitted for war, or a inertia stabbed/WCS covert ops ship will get locked and blown up in less then a second in any gate camp in low sec.


I'm glad you're finally coming around to the practical reality of the situation. Wink


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