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Zatharyn
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.01.01 01:09:00 - [1]
 

What part of the earth do the Amarr come from, I know they speak a form of Greek, does this mean there regilion is some form of Oradox Christian faith. Really would like to understand where the Amarr come in relation to earth and there regilion.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.01.01 01:35:00 - [2]
 

Well, when a mummy Amarr and a daddy Amarr love each other very much...

wrong forum, btw. This should be in EVE Fiction.

Aloriana Jacques
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2010.01.01 02:44:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Aloriana Jacques on 01/01/2010 02:49:36
This should actually be in the Fiction forum rather than RP.

To answer your question, the backstory never specifies what exact religion it was, at least that I recall. There's also been a notable lack of religious icons used in art and design, so it really does leave it up to interpretation. This was also probably done so that they would not openly offend any one religious group.

Especially considering the fact that a religion does change drastically over time. Could you imagine if they had? The crazies would come out and say that depicting them as murdering slavers is insulting yadi yadi yada. :\

Caius Amadeus
Amarr
Crimson Omega Heavy Industry
Posted - 2010.01.01 02:55:00 - [4]
 

I think it's really supposed to be a mash of all monotheistic religions on Earth today. It makes sense, considering that our cultures globally are headed for one massive 'collision' in the future.

Geldar Wroontik
Gallente
Galactic System Lords Alliance
Posted - 2010.01.01 06:41:00 - [5]
 

According to this, around 3085AD, a group within the Unified Catholic Church called The Conformists settled a system, and then got their butts kicked and got exiled in 3897AD. In 7989AD, two years after EVE opened, these Conformists headed to New Eden and set themselves up there. Then a guy called Dano Gheinok names himself a prophet and sets the seed for the Amarrian Theocracy.

Thus, the Amarrians were part of the Unified Catholic Church, which based on the name gives me the impression that it was a hodgepodge of the western Christian religions. But that's just me.

Graelyn
Amarr
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2010.01.01 10:51:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Graelyn on 01/01/2010 11:03:13

This is a great topic for the fiction forum.

In the meantime, get it the **** out of my IGS please!!! Wink

Julian Theodoulos
Posted - 2010.01.01 11:16:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Aloriana Jacques
Edited by: Aloriana Jacques on 01/01/2010 02:49:36
This should actually be in the Fiction forum rather than RP.

To answer your question, the backstory never specifies what exact religion it was, at least that I recall.


Please, read the timeline carefully.

Amarrians come from a group called Conformists, from the Unified Catholic (descendants of Roman Catholic?) background.


CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.01.01 11:26:00 - [8]
 

Moved from Intergalactic Summit.

Graelyn
Amarr
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2010.01.01 11:30:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Graelyn on 01/01/2010 11:37:22

o/ Nav Cool

As for the OP's question, direct specifics are unclear. The 'Unionists' referred to by since-then-retconned timelines "seems" to refer to hardcore catholic-ised and Latin-ised origins. Direct parts of Earth are unclear. Direct 'inspirations' of Earth are more greek - latin - byzantine originated, especially when the old Bestower model (pre- Apocrypha) had greek lettering all along the hull.

Many assume that Earth-Vatican ideals/ideas came to exert great amounts on influence on what became the 'Unionist/Amarrian' belief system. As with many EVE PF elements, much of this is up to interpretation.

I hope this helps somewhat.

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2010.01.01 13:56:00 - [10]
 

There is a lot of assumption on this, but the Amarr were at first a splinter group of the catholic churches who disagreed with the religious practices on the other side of the New Eden Wormhole.

In order to return their roots they settled a world in an area far away as they could. Even becoming a bit like Mormons and willingly giving up advanced technology. When the EVE gate closed and civilisation collapsed, the Amarr ancestors were in a better shape to survive the downfall then most others. At least their region of space and after they came in contact with other settlers on their homeworld of Athras, they later began to conquer, or as the Amarr would say, reclaim them.

Odilon Raennere
Posted - 2010.01.01 14:24:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Odilon Raennere on 03/01/2010 00:07:26
Edited by: Odilon Raennere on 01/01/2010 21:55:09
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
they came in contact with other settlers on their homeworld of Athras


It is interesting that most (all?) of the Amarr bloodlines come from settlers of just one planet. The Federation is composed of people from widely-separated systems and even the State has included peoples from worlds other than Caldari Prime (the Achura). Is there a complete list of the known bloodlines and their planets of origin according to the PF?

True Amarr, Khanid, Udorians: Amarr (Athra) in Amarr Prime
Ni-Kunni: Mishi IV
Ealurians: Ealur
All Minmatar tribes: Matar in Pator
Gallenteans: Gallente Prime in Luminaire
Deteis, Civire: Caldari Prime in Luminaire
Intaki: Intaki Prime
Jin-Mei: Lirsautton
Achura: Saisio
Mannar: Mannar

^ is this correct, and what am I missing?

*edits for corrections/fixes as seen below; thanks all!

Garion Avarr
Amarr
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2010.01.01 20:02:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Odilon Raennere


It is interesting that most (all?) of the Amarr bloodlines come from settlers of just one planet.

Actually, they don't. True Amarr and Udorians (who are generally considered True Amarr in terms of being a playable race) both come from Amarr Prime/Athra, as do the Khanid. The Ni-Kunni, however, are from another world (in the Aridia region, I think), as are the Ealurians (not a playable bloodline).

Odilon Raennere
Posted - 2010.01.01 22:05:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Garion Avarr
Actually, they don't.


Aha, thank you for the correction! That makes the Republic the only major nation populated (at least notionally) from one original world, I suppose. Or maybe its better to say it is the only single-homeworld empire?

Jakiin
Amarr
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Posted - 2010.01.02 05:59:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Odilon Raennere

Aha, thank you for the correction! That makes the Republic the only major nation populated (at least notionally) from one original world, I suppose. Or maybe its better to say it is the only single-homeworld empire?


Single Homeworld Empire (SHE for short, I suppose) would be less of a mouthful. I'll have to agree with the masses on your original question, however: It appears that CCP believe sticking a bunch of catholics on a rock and then removing bigger fish to keep them in check will result in some sort of monotheistic, totalitarian nation ascending to conquer all that it sees before it.

Obviously no one in CCPs story division was raised catholic: If my family can't have one reunion without going at it tooth and nail how can we really expect this sort of organization?

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2010.01.02 14:05:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Jakiin

Obviously no one in CCPs story division was raised catholic: If my family can't have one reunion without going at it tooth and nail how can we really expect this sort of organization?


Heretics were a problem a stake and a pile of Firewood solved in past centuries and no doubt the early Amarrians had their own solutions

Odilon Raennere
Posted - 2010.01.02 14:19:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Jakiin
will result in some sort of monotheistic, totalitarian nation ascending to conquer all that it sees before it


I agree. It seems a little far-fetched that any society, regardless of its characteristics, would have so many cultural similarities with the society that succeeds it 8000+ years later. What are the chances that Catholic settlers on a remote planet, suddenly devoid of the technology that brought them there and the ability to produce high technology at all would eventually evolve into... a very Catholic-like space-faring civilization millennia on? Not impossible nor unexplainable by any means, but it strikes me as a cheap excuse for Amarr culture being what it is. "Oh, they descended from crazy Catholic exiles."

Magnus Nordir
Caldari
Nordir Industries
Posted - 2010.01.02 19:36:00 - [17]
 

Did CCP ever clearly state that Amarrians descended from Roman Catholics? Seems to me that the whole latin-christian connection was made entirely by the players themselves.

Odilon Raennere
Posted - 2010.01.02 20:33:00 - [18]
 

The Catholic reference may have been ret-con'd out in the official story like the French references for the Gallente were.

http://eve-history.net/wiki/index.php/Amarr_Empire

^ link shows a timeline of Amarr history which still includes those references. The "Conformists, a group within the Unified Catholic Church" migrated through the EVE gate at the end of the 8th Millennium. Their descendants populate Athra, become the Amarrians.

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2010.01.02 21:29:00 - [19]
 

A) There is nothing indicating they speak any form of Greek.

B) Tracing the EVE races back to modern cultures is a futile experiment as even if you can point to a historical connection, the EVE races underwent a 15000-year dark age that would have definitely wiped out any cultural connection beyond the superficial. For example, the Gallente don't speak French - it's just a convenient stand-in for old or obscure Gallente dialects. In the same way the Amarr don't speak Latin or Greek, even if some roleplayers enjoy using the former because of the religious under/overtones.

Garion Avarr
Amarr
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2010.01.02 22:24:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai
A) There is nothing indicating they speak any form of Greek.


We have seen Greek characters on the old graphics Bestower hull, so they do seem to know of the Greek alphabet beyond its use in mathematics and science (since neither of those seem like reasons for the Amarr to put characters prominently on a ship's hull). They might not speak it as their everyday language, but it's certainly a strong possibility, and if not, it probably has some religious significance.

However, I have been told that the few examples we have seen of Amarrian language 'look vaguely Persian.'

'Catholic,' by the way, is simply a Greek word that means 'universal,' every mainstream Christian can be called a member of the catholic church -- the Roman Catholic is a specific branch thereof.

While 'Unified Catholic Church' is somewhat of a redundancy, my guess is that it would be some future rejoining of various branches of the Christian church.

While they may have started out as Christian however (fairly probable, and for certain the Amarr have their roots in the Abrahamic tradition), the Amarr are quite different by now, even if there are similarities. Perhaps one way of putting it would be to say that they share as much with Christianity -- any version of it -- as Islam does -- comes from the same tradition, shares some of the same scripture, prophets, and traditions, but completely different religions.

Halunoto Vankaalen
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2010.01.02 22:31:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Odilon Raennere
True Amarr, Khanid, Udorians: Amarr (Athra) in Amarr Prime
Ni-Kunni: Mishi IV
Ealurians: Ealur
All Minmatar tribes: Matar in Pator
Gallenteans: Gallente Prime in Luminaire
Deteis, Civire: Caldari Prime in Luminaire
Intaki: Intaki Prime
Jin-Mei: Lirsautton
Achura: Saisio
Mannar: Mannar


fix'd.

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2010.01.03 12:23:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Garion Avarr

We have seen Greek characters on the old graphics Bestower hull, so they do seem to know of the Greek alphabet beyond its use in mathematics and science (since neither of those seem like reasons for the Amarr to put characters prominently on a ship's hull). They might not speak it as their everyday language, but it's certainly a strong possibility, and if not, it probably has some religious significance.
I still fail to see how one single (possibly outdated) appearance of a few glyphs from an alphabet indicates any sort of predominance of the Greek language.

I will point out that many corporate logos are based around the latin alphabet and english words, and that this does not mean that the EVE races speak latin or english. Even so, they are far more common and more visible than the supposedly-greek letters on the Bestower.

JordanParey
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2010.01.05 13:14:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Halunoto Vankaalen
Originally by: Odilon Raennere
True Amarr, Khanid, Udorians: Amarr (Athra) in Amarr Prime
Ni-Kunni: Mishi IV
Ealurians: Ealur
All Minmatar tribes: Matar in Pator
Gallenteans: Gallente Prime in Luminaire
Deteis, Civire: Caldari Prime in Luminaire
Intaki: Intaki Prime
Jin-Mei: Lirsautton
Achura: Saisio
Mannar: Mannar


fix'd.


I was under the impression that King Khanid was True Amarr from Athras or thereabouts, and that the race that is named for him was an entirely different line from a different place?

Garion Avarr
Amarr
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2010.01.05 13:36:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Garion Avarr on 05/01/2010 14:58:57
Originally by: JordanParey


I was under the impression that King Khanid was True Amarr from Athras or thereabouts, and that the race that is named for him was an entirely different line from a different place?

King Khanid is indeed True Amarr. I seem to recall a reference to the race that is named for his family being from elsewhere, but I have not been able to find it.

EDIT: Here we go:
The people of Khanid have endured the political turmoil of their leaders with great dignity and calm. They were originally fellow settlers alongside the Amarrians on Athra, better known today as Amarr Prime. During the height of the Amarr Reclaiming, the Khanid were swept up and merged into the growing Amarr nation. Proving themselves valuable allies to the Amarrians from day one, they have ever since held an exalted status within the Empire, with only a handful of them actually having to endure slavery.

The name Khanid was given to the Khanid chiefs by the Amarrians. It means "little lord" or "lord ling" and is an affectionate term generally given to a cherished friend. The name stuck to the nation as a whole, and even after the Khanid domain was granted to one of the great Amarr Holder families, the family adopted the Khanid name as their own, winning the hearts of the Khanid people in the process.

So the Khanid family (who are True Amarr) named themselves after the Khanid race, who were from the same planet as the True Amarr.

Garion Avarr
Amarr
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2010.01.05 13:49:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Garion Avarr on 05/01/2010 13:58:21
Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai
Originally by: Garion Avarr

We have seen Greek characters on the old graphics Bestower hull, so they do seem to know of the Greek alphabet beyond its use in mathematics and science (since neither of those seem like reasons for the Amarr to put characters prominently on a ship's hull). They might not speak it as their everyday language, but it's certainly a strong possibility, and if not, it probably has some religious significance.
I still fail to see how one single (possibly outdated) appearance of a few glyphs from an alphabet indicates any sort of predominance of the Greek language.

Because outside of science and math, I'm not sure exactly what the Greek alphabet is used for other than the language itself? It appears in religious symbolism, yes, but that still involves some links to the language, though not full use of the language.

EDIT: Lokked it up on Wikipedia, and there are a few other languages that use the Greek alphabet today, but . . . they seem rather obscure.

Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai
I will point out that many corporate logos are based around the latin alphabet and english words, and that this does not mean that the EVE races speak latin or english. Even so, they are far more common and more visible than the supposedly-greek letters on the Bestower.

The Latin alphabet is used for many languages other than Latin. Including English, which happens to be the language primarily used by people playing the game. The use of the Latin alphabet and English language are somewhat of a given due to the requirements of the player base (though at least some of the races in New Eden having come from a group that used that Latin alphabet seems likely). Other languages and alphabets, in the English client at least, are obviously there because they have some significance, not because players have to understand things in the game.

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2010.01.06 17:53:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Alexeph Stoekai on 06/01/2010 17:53:48
Originally by: Garion Avarr

Because outside of science and math, I'm not sure exactly what the Greek alphabet is used for other than the language itself? It appears in religious symbolism, yes, but that still involves some links to the language, though not full use of the language.

EDIT: Lokked it up on Wikipedia, and there are a few other languages that use the Greek alphabet today, but . . . they seem rather obscure.
It's 1795 years until The Conformists settle Soekheviti. It's 5990 years until Dano Gheinok cements the ancient foundations of the Amarr religion. It's over 17000 years until the Amarr unify all people on Athra.

That is enough time for an existing language to change beyond recognition and even to create a language from scratch... I admit that it's a possibility that the Amarr make use of or have made use of the Greek alphabet (or something very similar to it) for something at some point in their history... but that doesn't mean that they speak anything resembling Greek!

And please note the single scrap of evidence that this argument is based on has been removed from the game. That old Bestower texture dates back to the dawn of the game, designed by a department at CCP which probably have very few connections to the couple of people who were deciding the storyline. Do you really want to pin a core factor of a race's culture on this?

Garion Avarr
Amarr
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2010.01.06 20:57:00 - [27]
 

Forgive me, I should have said 'derived from' rather than suggesting that anyone in New Eden speaks any actual language currently on use on Earth (though if any have any knowledge of Earth languages, I would bet on it being Amarrian scholars). Of course the languages used in New Eden are greatly different from the languages used today on Earth (though not, I think, so completely different as to not be able to see some similarities) -- I assumed that this was a given and that we were talking about their original languages, but you know what they say about assuming.

Alenora Tizar
Posted - 2010.01.07 18:57:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai
Edited by: Alexeph Stoekai on 06/01/2010 17:53:48
Originally by: Garion Avarr

Because outside of science and math, I'm not sure exactly what the Greek alphabet is used for other than the language itself? It appears in religious symbolism, yes, but that still involves some links to the language, though not full use of the language.

EDIT: Lokked it up on Wikipedia, and there are a few other languages that use the Greek alphabet today, but . . . they seem rather obscure.
It's 1795 years until The Conformists settle Soekheviti. It's 5990 years until Dano Gheinok cements the ancient foundations of the Amarr religion. It's over 17000 years until the Amarr unify all people on Athra.

That is enough time for an existing language to change beyond recognition and even to create a language from scratch... I admit that it's a possibility that the Amarr make use of or have made use of the Greek alphabet (or something very similar to it) for something at some point in their history... but that doesn't mean that they speak anything resembling Greek!

And please note the single scrap of evidence that this argument is based on has been removed from the game. That old Bestower texture dates back to the dawn of the game, designed by a department at CCP which probably have very few connections to the couple of people who were deciding the storyline. Do you really want to pin a core factor of a race's culture on this?


When u think about it though Latin has been around for almost what, 3000 years? Sir its evoked a bit but its relativly the same language that the Romans spoke. Latin was kept this way mainly because it became the religious language of choice for the Roman Catholic Church. I don't think it is too far fetched to imagine that a race as religious, conservative, and expansionist (meaning the want to impose their culture not fuse with others) as Amarr would be able to keep the language of the origina settlers on Amarr Prime. Come to think of it Hebrew has been around even longer than Latin and it is still almost exactly the same.

Ajit Tilak
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2010.01.15 20:11:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Ajit Tilak on 15/01/2010 20:12:47
Wrong thread, silly keyboard. Would a moderator please remove this post?

Gebher'el
Amarr
Epitoth Guard
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.01.15 20:25:00 - [30]
 

A lot of people point to a Cathloic form for expplination. I agree with the fictional basis behind this but find that for best play a pure Cathloic form does not work. In my opinion the Amarr faith can best be represented by three faiths.

1) Old Testiment Judism; they believed in the fact they where the sole chosen of God as a RACE, they took slaves of other races and believed while others could convert they could not truly be equal to God's chosen people. hey where also very expansionist.

2) Middle Ages Muslims; they felt they had to conquer people to put them under Allah's law and thus show them the try path. Very warlike but at the same time they had a deeper intellectual side. (Remember Amarr where the first to gain space flight back).

3) Middle Ages Catholic; see themselves as the true represenatives of God as an entity, fought to hold the holy places from those not of their faith, infidels. Very politically motivated and oriented compared to most religions.

Combining these three aspects together I feel you gain the single best representation of the Amarr culture. As for the language I would say it would likely be based on a mix of an Arabic/Hebrew hybrid and Latin. From the fiction we have available the lack of mention of Christ would leave one to believe that the Catholic bend would be a bit dimissed with prehaps the practice of saints being the main carry forward.

The single God entity would indicate a move more toward the Jewish/Muslim approach. The political structure seems to more closely follow a hybird form of old testiment Jews with the Emperor in this instance serving as an incarnation of the High Preast.

It is an interesting topic and one of the reasons I play the Amarr and enjoy them for RP. As a race they have some of deepest RP potential and well defined character.


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