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Law Deschain
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.12.23 20:28:00 - [1]
 

I tend to mine in a very un-intelligent way, I get on one end of a belt and mine everything in a long line, dropping cans along the way. Many people will probably laugh at this, but it requires very little attention and allows me to do other things.

With my Mining habits laid-out;
Are Miner II's better at mining random high-sec ore than a Modulated Miner II with a specific crystal?

When I play around with EFT it would appear that a Mining Rohk would out-mine various O.R.E Ships if the target is random high-sec ore. I've seen many people laugh at Rohk mining fits, so I thought I'd open this up to anyone wishing to debate it.

All help appreciated, as I'm sure I'm overlooking something important and am not about to drop the millions on a Rohk until hear some opinions.

ingenting
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2009.12.23 21:10:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: ingenting on 23/12/2009 21:12:00
Edited by: ingenting on 23/12/2009 21:10:12
try reading the attributes page and do some math.

modulated miners are only better on mining the same ore you have crystals for, without crystals, or on the wrong ore you get about half as normal mining lasers.

also, you cant outmine a covetor in a BS unless the covetor pilot have crap skills and the BS pilot have very good skills.

"various ore ships" is a pretty dumb thing to say, as each tier gives +1 more strip miner slot, and the exhumers have different roles.
and on top of that, the type of ship you use have no matter for the thing you mentioned

Duchy Duke
Posted - 2009.12.23 22:16:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Duchy Duke on 23/12/2009 22:18:48
Edited by: Duchy Duke on 23/12/2009 22:18:03
Edited by: Duchy Duke on 23/12/2009 22:16:08
Originally by: ingenting
Edited by: ingenting on 23/12/2009 21:12:00
Edited by: ingenting on 23/12/2009 21:10:12
try reading the attributes page and do some math.

modulated miners are only better on mining the same ore you have crystals for, without crystals, or on the wrong ore you get about half as normal mining lasers.

also, you cant outmine a covetor in a BS unless the covetor pilot have crap skills and the BS pilot have very good skills.

"various ore ships" is a pretty dumb thing to say, as each tier gives +1 more strip miner slot, and the exhumers have different roles.
and on top of that, the type of ship you use have no matter for the thing you mentioned


First off, thank you for the reply. I'm glad to get any additional info I can on this.

As far as reading attributes and doing the math, I believe I have via EFT's reported ore yields.

A Pilot with all skill level 5's (for the sake of discussion) looks to bring in 1561m3/minute in a Covetor with T2 Veldspar mining cystals & 5x Minning Drone II's.

The same pilot would appear to pull in around 1371m3/minute in Rohk with Miner II's and 5x Mining Drones II's.

Some important differences, the Rohk has almost no cargo bay, and Miner II's cycle every 60sec vs ever 180sec, making it a nightmare to keep going (constant drag and drop), BUT, on high-sec ore, if what I'm seeing is right, it would have the highest theoretical ore yield / minute of any ship IF switching between various high-sec ores (and of course it would be comeplete unable to harvest certain low-sec ores). This would be due to Modulated Deep Core Miner's being horrible at mining something they do not have a crystal slotted for (which If I understand people right would drop it's yeild by 50%, putting it a ways below the Rohk).

I have a strong suspicion that I'm making a mistake somewhere, and I'd love someone to point out what it is. But after doing some research I don't think I'm the only one who's looked at Rohks for mining.


Agent Known
Posted - 2009.12.23 23:38:00 - [4]
 

There's also the Deep Core Modulated Lasers for normal mining ships (or the Rokh). While its cargo bay is small, it will slightly outmine a Covetor and have a nice BS sized tank to boot, making it great for 0.0 mining.

MiltGyver
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.23 23:41:00 - [5]
 

Compare your rokh + Miner II's with strip miner I's on a barge or exhumer. They don't take crystals and have the same yield on all types.

Duchy Duke
Posted - 2009.12.24 02:28:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: MiltGyver
Compare your rokh + Miner II's with strip miner I's on a barge or exhumer. They don't take crystals and have the same yield on all types.
]

Nice! Thank you, I wouldn't have looked at that. Hulk + 5 Mining Drone II's & 3 Strip Miner I's comes in at 1638m3/minute with an all 5's pilot. I never knew about Strip Miner I's not needing crystals. Very Happy So much cheaper than a Rohk too.

Agent Known
Posted - 2009.12.24 02:46:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Duchy Duke
Originally by: MiltGyver
Compare your rokh + Miner II's with strip miner I's on a barge or exhumer. They don't take crystals and have the same yield on all types.
]

Nice! Thank you, I wouldn't have looked at that. Hulk + 5 Mining Drone II's & 3 Strip Miner I's comes in at 1638m3/minute with an all 5's pilot. I never knew about Strip Miner I's not needing crystals. Very Happy So much cheaper than a Rohk too.


Actually, nowadays a Rokh is cheaper than a Hulk...and less likely to be subject to suicide. YARRRR!!

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2009.12.24 03:11:00 - [8]
 

Strip Miner I - Good for any ore (except Mercoxit). Do not require crystals.
Strip Miner II - Suck for any ore except for crystal type. Require crystals.

Modulated only means they can be used to mine Mercoxit.

The best route to take, for mining out an entire belt of random rocks, is a Hulk with T1 Strips. You can mine whatever is in reach, without having to sacrifice hold space for a bunch of crystal ammo.

Xessej
Posted - 2009.12.24 05:00:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Strip Miner I - Good for any ore (except Mercoxit). Do not require crystals.
Strip Miner II - Suck for any ore except for crystal type. Require crystals.

Modulated only means they can be used to mine Mercoxit.

The best route to take, for mining out an entire belt of random rocks, is a Hulk with T1 Strips. You can mine whatever is in reach, without having to sacrifice hold space for a bunch of crystal ammo.

In a hisec belt you're never dealing with more than 4 basic ore types. A hulk with t2 strips therefore needs only 12 crystals on board which only takes up 450m3 cargo plus the 3 crystals in the strips. It's pretty easy to use an ore scanner to sort roids by type so that you know when you need to switch crystals.
The ship hauling the ore can bring new crystals if you burn one up.

Julepalm
Posted - 2009.12.24 08:11:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Strip Miner I - Good for any ore (except Mercoxit). Do not require crystals.
Strip Miner II - Suck for any ore except for crystal type. Require crystals.

Modulated only means they can be used to mine Mercoxit.

The best route to take, for mining out an entire belt of random rocks, is a Hulk with T1 Strips. You can mine whatever is in reach, without having to sacrifice hold space for a bunch of crystal ammo.




Not entire true here m8.

Modulated means it can take crystals .

Deepcore Modulated means it can mine mercoxite.

ingenting
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2009.12.24 09:26:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Duchy Duke
BUT, on high-sec ore, if what I'm seeing is right, it would have the highest theoretical ore yield / minute of any ship IF switching between various high-sec ores (and of course it would be comeplete unable to harvest certain low-sec ores). This would be due to Modulated Deep Core Miner's being horrible at mining something they do not have a crystal slotted for (which If I understand people right would drop it's yeild by 50%, putting it a ways below the Rohk)
i have no frickin idea what you mean with this, please explain.

like said above, mining barges and the hulk use STRIP miners I's which mine everything at the same m3/cycle, except ice and mercoxit.
modulated strip miners use crystals, and modulates miners (non strippers) also use crystals... theres crystals for all ores for all modulated miners (stripper and non-stripper).

using crystals on a modulated strip miner gives aprox 100m3/cycle extra over normal T1 strip miners. also, the cycle time for strip miners are 3 minutes without any Fleet bonuses.

and on your quote, i think you mean the time you lose when switching from one rock to another, or when you dont get a full cycle from rocks that are almost empty.
sure you lose some, but if you look in your cargo and see how many units each cycle gives, then use a survey scanner and try to time and cancel your cycles you will lose mininal amount of time.

also what kind of ore you mine have no difference whatsoever on your m3/cycle, except if you're using the wrong crystals, which you'll have to assume you're using the right one

Letrange
Minmatar
Red Horizon Inc
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.12.24 15:10:00 - [12]
 

I will note that if you're small gang mining - T2 strips and specific crystals are the way to go in wormhole space. You can spend an entire session on a single roid if you hit some core grave site.

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2009.12.24 16:06:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Julepalm
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Strip Miner I - Good for any ore (except Mercoxit). Do not require crystals.
Strip Miner II - Suck for any ore except for crystal type. Require crystals.

Modulated only means they can be used to mine Mercoxit.

The best route to take, for mining out an entire belt of random rocks, is a Hulk with T1 Strips. You can mine whatever is in reach, without having to sacrifice hold space for a bunch of crystal ammo.




Not entire true here m8.

Modulated means it can take crystals .

Deepcore Modulated means it can mine mercoxite.


That's right. Sorry... I always forget that T2 Strips are "modulated". I just got in the habit of calling them "Strip Miner II".


Modulated can use crystals.
Deep Core can mine Mercoxit.

However, since the OP is talking about mining high sec... the simplest approach is T1 Strips. He said himself he just mines from one end to the other. So he can either constantly swap crystals depending on what's in reach... or just mine until its gone.

Ere Colliseru
Etoilles Mortant Ltd.
Solyaris Chtonium
Posted - 2009.12.24 16:18:00 - [14]
 

Well for an op you might be right to take t1 strips.

But what about single mining? There the value is also worth it considering. I know someone who lands at 80isk/m3 mining 3 high sec ores. Doing just scordite I land at 88isk/m3. Might be not much. But 10% anyway.


 

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