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maya ibuki2
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2009.12.21 14:56:00 - [121]
 

Edited by: maya ibuki2 on 21/12/2009 17:37:08
Originally by: CCP Abathur


Dreads
We’ve also straightened up one other issue by returning the Naglfar to its primarily turret based bonuses.

Naglfar: Launcher RoF bonus removed and Turret RoF bonus (5%) added.

XL Turrets

XL turrets have been adjusted slightly to ensure their damage is balanced and to give the short range weapons a bit more range.

Dual 1000mm Railgun: Damage mod to 5.8
Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery: Damage mod to 12.75

Citadel Torps / Cruise

We’ve changed several things here in order to balance these weapons with their turret counterparts and ensure they are doing the damage they are supposed to.

Citadel Torps: Velocity 1750; Explosion Radius 2000; Launcher RoF 34s
Citadel Cruise: Velocity 4250; Explosion Radius 1750
Compact Torps: Damage 3000; Explosion Radius 1750





thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou!!!!

i am jumping for joy right now, my naglfar can undock again!!!!!!1!!one!!11one!

*edit* umm...how do i do this? *checks caod* ah there we go. page 5 snypaSurprised

Max Teranous
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:00:00 - [122]
 

But but but you haven't mentioned target painters once Crying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sad

Max Cool

Enidan Lost
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:04:00 - [123]
 

1. Will the supercarrier get an extra-bay just for the fighter/(-bombers)?

2. What will be the capacity of one fighterbomber?

Capitain Hunt
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:04:00 - [124]
 

MS becomes an sepperate Fighterbomber hangar to launch 20 fb and an standart hangar for the rest fighter and drones?

Tiger Kior
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:06:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Bobby Atlas

On a serious note, has fighter bombers seen there HP or velocity increased? As previously on sisi the biggest issue with them was a single wave of 5-6 bombs would wipe out an entire blob of fighter bombers (and fighters for that matter) without any hope for recalling them in time let alone having the hp to justify the speculative prices of them being 50m+ each.

This might not be the place to get into the whole issue with bombers, certainly not, but having 5-6 bombers capable of neutering an entire fleet of carriers/moms seems a little out of step with the whole balancing act that ccp has taken up the last few months (especially when just about every major engagement now is seeing each side with 15-30 man dedicated bomber squads which by themselves have the ability to and have more than one cares to remember, end fights in there tracks).

OR as equally, the same problem, engaging fighters (and soon to be fighter bombers) against enemy capital fleet is often a one way trip as the enemy cap group simply orders carriers to start smart bombing and before you know it your fighters are waxed by 20-30 carriers within the enemy cap group covering a massive area with AOE smarty damage.

Just my 2isk

Sajeera
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:19:00 - [126]
 

A stuff i posted before and got lost in the threadnaught:

One thing that is bugging me about the new supercarriers, is that while CCP admits that their main role will be anti-capital DPS, one of them is actually doing his job 25% better than the rest. It wasn't such an issue when the dps was low, but now it may become a problem and thats why it can be hard to balance the entire class ships later.

Except carriers i don't know if there is another precedent in game, of ships that are the same class, has the same role, but one of them surpass the rest in doing his job by such a huge margin and without significant downsides. And I'm not talking about rifters here.

I am well aware about the gallente drone tradition, but there are moments when you cant stick so close to the original concept because you will risk the entire balance.

In my experience with MMOs if there is some design flow, people tend to gear, equip (fit) TOWARD the flow, thus abusing it to the max. In this case a Nyx with full rack DCUs will be nearly twice better DPSer than his poor cousins that may not bother to use DCUs at all. And it kinda sucks to compensate low dps on a dps ship with slightly better tank.

I don't know if after awhile everybody will fly around in a Nyx, but I'm pretty sure that when the dust settle it will be the dominant supercarrier out there.

About the Hel, its not only the logistical bonuses, its the tank that need to be looked up. Its looks like the ship is designed for shield tanking but people tend to armor tank it with a better result. Devs need to come with a more clear view on that and give it the appropriate slot layout and tank bonuses.

CCP Abathur


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:26:00 - [127]
 

Fighter Bays

This is something we are looking into. If we cannot get this in for 1.1 then increasing the size of the current drone bays may happen.

Self-repair on Supercaps

At this time, we are not pursuing any sort of enhanced capability of this type. The HP boost is the result of watching these ships melt in under a minute to current EVE capital ship fleets. The survivability of these ships should not be measured in seconds; taking one down should be more memorable than opening another bag of potato chips. Titans and Supercarriers bring specific offensive advantages to a battlefield. If you want them to survive, support them properly. The additional hit points are intended to be a buffer that allow the ships enough time so that allies can come get them out of whatever mess they've gotten themselves into. If your fellow supercapital pilots make a habit of using their ships without proper support, that's bad.

Having said that, yes, we're aware of the issues concerning shield supercapitals / gang bonuses, etc... and are looking into possible solutions that does not include giving them zomg self-repair.

Fighter Bomber survivability

This is a tricky one because Fighter Bombers are already hovering around 20k raw hit points plus resists. That's more EHP than, for example, T2 fit Thorax. In that respect they are already fairly tough. They are also set to orbit at 7.5k which puts them outside of all but the most powerful smart bomb range. The design team is of the opinion that this issue is less about the Fighter Bombers and more about the Stealth Bombers / Smartbombs. No nerfs imminent, just letting you all know that we're looking at this problem from a larger perspective. Smile

Misc comment about gang / Titan bonuses

At some point in the future, these bonuses are only going to work if the ship in question is on the grid with you. This isn't happening 'soon', but it is something we are looking into.

Originally by: Zeveron
1) Any adjustments on the leviathan CPU output?


What do you think would be 'fair'?

Originally by: Zeveron
2) Is the leviathan with 6 launchers gona have the same output as the turret counterparts?


1.) Remove 7th launcher.
2.) Balance against other Titans with 6 launchers.

This is possible. Feedback?

Originally by: Kaildoth
Can you assign fighter bombers like you assign regular fighters?


No.

Originally by: Callistus
Originally by: CCP Abathur

State Module Changes

We have added a mass multiplier to Siege Modules, Triage Modules and Industrial Cores. When these modules are activated, the mass of your ship increases exponentially, making it much harder for other ships to move or bump.


Have you considered applying the same effect to the DD weapons for the duration that the titan is supposed to be immoblie?


No, but that's not a bad idea.

Originally by: Max Teranous
But but but you haven't mentioned target painters once Crying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sad


Is this your suggestion for the Hel?


Jasmin Rays
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:27:00 - [128]
 

-dont forget the signature of outposts
-pls increase exlosionvelocity for capitalmisiles or fix capital-bumping
-will the supercarriers be able to dock?

Random Asian
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:32:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Random Asian on 21/12/2009 15:35:01
Congratulations CCP, you've listened to the few people on your staff who have actual significant experience flying capital and supercapital ships instead of the idiot who revoked the changes who didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to capital/supercapital combat.

I honestly didn't expect you'd bring the changes back, so bravo on you for surprising me. As a capital pilot with 2 years in dreads and carriers and a soon to be supercapital pilot, these changes will significantly improve what I think is the most fun combat in eve online, capitals.

c0rn1
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:41:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: CCP Abathur

Is this your suggestion for the Hel?




My suggestion for the Hel would be a 10% speed increase per level for it's fighters/fighter bombers since this would be the minmatar approach of things. Minmatar were always a little faster than most ships.

cheers

c0rn1

myEpic2
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:43:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

Lowsec doomsdays back please!

I can understand why you removed them to stop motherships being one-shotted but once the mothership hitpoint boost is back in can we have doomsdays re-enabled for lowsec. It was quite excellent to have an answer for station dock-gaming carriers.




No thank you! Try 10 dreads instead.. At least it require a tiny bit of effort when ganking capsRolling Eyes

Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:45:00 - [132]
 

by jove i think hes got it[i]![i/]

welcome home seleene

Barwinius
Ars ex Discordia
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:45:00 - [133]
 

These changes seem reasonable at first glance.

Xodius Raldari
Amarr
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:49:00 - [134]
 

Will you be making any changes to the ragnarok current ehp? Right now the balance is pretty terrible compared to armor titans or even leviathan.

Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:52:00 - [135]
 

Don't you think super-carriers should lose remote repair range bonuses altogether? They already have impressive anti-subcapital capabilities in form of drones and fighters, now they're getting anti-capital weapon. Cue insane amount HP and EW immunity on top.

People are getting more and more rich. I don't think this trend is going to stop. IMHO it's just matter of time until you'll see gangs of several (tens and more) supper-carriers with unbreakable spider tank. I mean, unbreakable to anything other than even more super-carriers.

As for Hel: Fighter and Fighter Bomber speed + tracking speed possible/useful?

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:53:00 - [136]
 

Will titans be able to initiate warp, then activate DD, and still warp off or will activating the DD stop your warp drive no matter what?

Max Teranous
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:53:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: Max Teranous
But but but you haven't mentioned target painters once Crying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sad


Is this your suggestion for the Hel?


CCP troll, worst troll Embarassed

Srs business tho, I say bin the RR bonus. Keeping it leaves a conflict in roles with normal carriers, just when you are attempting to give moms a distinct and seperate role. And even if you boost that bonus, it still does poor hp rep/sec when compared to a triage'd carrier.

I'd like to see a damage bonus TBH. Then you have 2 tanky moms, 2 ganky moms. Not that interesting, but certainly useful.

Max Cool

mean candy
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:54:00 - [138]
 

/signed on the changes...

except.... the 5% rep bonus from the Hel just needs to be removed (i think we all agreed on this here).

so what makes the minmatar unique? i think the true answer would indeed be speed. 150m/s mommy makes u frown? well, what about the other minnie bonus they are known for then: 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level YARRRR!!

oh and while we're at it... gang shield bonus really needs to applied instantly, throughout all the shipclasses.
and while we're at it 2nd): did you ever think of balancing the slave/crystal sets considering slave bonus gets applied to a cap's armor but crystal bonus doesnt to cap shield boosters?

ElvenLord
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:56:00 - [139]
 

Edited by: ElvenLord on 21/12/2009 15:56:41
Originally by: CCP Abathur
If we cannot get this in for 1.1 then increasing the size of the current drone bays may happen.


It will need increasing no matter what tbh, just depends how much Smile

Originally by: CCP Abathur
Originally by: Callistus
Originally by: CCP Abathur

State Module Changes

We have added a mass multiplier to Siege Modules, Triage Modules and Industrial Cores. When these modules are activated, the mass of your ship increases exponentially, making it much harder for other ships to move or bump.


Have you considered applying the same effect to the DD weapons for the duration that the titan is supposed to be immoblie?


No, but that's not a bad idea.


And how about that mass starts doing something in the first place since, as already mentioned many times, a shuttle can still bum a titan Rolling Eyes

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.12.21 16:00:00 - [140]
 

Hel bonus: +5% to fighter and fighter bomber top speed

This worthy?

NedFromAssembly
Gallente
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2009.12.21 16:00:00 - [141]
 

My only question, since MS are going to be able to jump farther and can't dock to refuel, are they getting large fuel bays?

TheAdj
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.12.21 16:01:00 - [142]
 

Edited by: TheAdj on 21/12/2009 16:05:22
A boost patch with no nerfs, all about my favorite ships? I believe I'm in love with a former MC CEO.

I see supercarriers still doing repping in heavy combat or siege situations, when being unjammable makes them great for emergency reps. I like the rep bonus on the hel, but compared to the others it is rather bland. How about leaving the current rep bonus and adding something like a jumprange bonus, so it can keep up with carriers? The rep bonus isn't worthy of a supercarrier by itself since they're really losing the generic "I can do everything" abilities that carriers have and seem to be far more combat focused. Another consideration would be to make the rep bonus apply for all supercarriers for their respective racial repair types and give the hel the jumprange bonus (or something completely different).

*Edit: you covered this while I was thinking about a reply, feel free to ignore*
Any chance of giving all supercarriers a bonus to fighter/fighter bomber hp per level or something to that effect? Bobby did bring up a good point about stealth bombers really being able to do a number on fighters. A speed increase to fighters/fighter bombers could work as well, since that would make the pilot have to respond fast enough to recall before the bombs hit. Smartbombs are already a major deterrent to large swarms of fighters, having 7 bombs kill fighters just seems kinda ridiculous.

You didn't list the base velocity of compact citadels, what is it? I'm assuming this is because it wasn't changed, but I have no idea what the current velocity is.

GHOST TIMMER
Thundercats
B O R G
Posted - 2009.12.21 16:02:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: myEpic2
Originally by: Jade Constantine

Lowsec doomsdays back please!

I can understand why you removed them to stop motherships being one-shotted but once the mothership hitpoint boost is back in can we have doomsdays re-enabled for lowsec. It was quite excellent to have an answer for station dock-gaming carriers.




No thank you! Try 10 dreads instead.. At least it require a tiny bit of effort when ganking capsRolling Eyes



Why not its just ppl problem if they wanna be ****ing around in low sec trying to kill stuff.
its your own fault if u die there atm carriers are indistructble on stations in low sec unless u have a huge dread gang even then they usualy manage to deagrro and dock up.
ive seen 3 carriers with multi hic sit around a station that has litle dock radius killing every thing that comes out this sertanly counters that and makes these guys think 2 befor doing it.
its a 50 - 100 bill isk ship it sould have some bonuses to killing ****
not just sit at a pos bridging stuff around.

Please do not evade the profanity filter. Zymurgist

Allan Corday
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.12.21 16:04:00 - [144]
 

Edited by: Allan Corday on 21/12/2009 16:05:11
Originally by: CCP Abathur

Fighter Bomber survivability
The design team is of the opinion that this issue is less about the Fighter Bombers and more about the Stealth Bombers / Smartbombs. No nerfs imminent, just letting you all know that we're looking at this problem from a larger perspective. Smile



babby atlas gon cry. Navy ships have anti-aircraft defenses, yet carriers can fit ... smartbombs Rolling Eyes. Support ships need a role in fighter defense - which today is very limited since fighters can't be scrammed, webbed, or audibly primaried. Stealth Bomber bombs can fill another niche role of anti-fighter support.

Stealth Bomber wings are balanced compared to pre-Dominion doomsdays. It takes leadership to make bombing runs happen, it requires the right situation to use them, and it requires perfect timing. Damage is capped by the number of bombs in a wave and mitigated by blast range. It makes sense that the capsuleer analog to fighter-bombers (stealth bombers) should have devastating damage potential.

Linas IV
Posted - 2009.12.21 16:04:00 - [145]
 

Thx Abathur for you good replys you continuous trys to fix these Issues.

I really dont want to be picky, but i got one question:


When you change the Cit. Torp Launcher Rof from 26s to 34s,
will this be compensated by additional Damage on the Torps?

If not, then the old 7.5% Proj.-Bonus on the Nagl might be Dps-wise more appropriate to compensate.

Depili
Blood Works Inc.
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2009.12.21 16:20:00 - [146]
 

Yay, finally some sense in the changes! Hope that CCP Nozh isn't in charge of anything anymore, but if you need to give him something to do put him on target painters.

Sathrai
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.12.21 16:26:00 - [147]
 

Abathur Embarassed

One of my corpmates who suicided his Naglfar in protest after Dominion is currently looking very sheepish.

Ruafo
Minmatar
r.evolution 8
Atlas.
Posted - 2009.12.21 16:27:00 - [148]
 

Edited by: Ruafo on 21/12/2009 16:29:28
Originally by: CCP Abathur
...
perhaps the Hel’s bonus is not so bad. So, what would you like to see here? Would an additional boost to the current RR bonus be welcomed? Ponies?
...



As an confident minmatar carrier pilot i was always seeing the Nighoggur with it's bonus at the top of the carriers, because of bonuses consonant with it's role.
But indeed with the changes the big brother hel will really suck.

My suggestion is to change the bonus to somekind of velocity increase or signature decreas bonuses.
(Would be in line with minmatar roles)
No not to the ship, please not!!!!
We don't need another fastest super capital!!!

Assigne the bonus to the fighter bomber....

What do you think?



L'Artest
Posted - 2009.12.21 16:36:00 - [149]
 

The issue with Fighter Bombers is the same as drone dps period, is that it can easily be destroyed and not replaced, at great expense to the pilot. Even more so for mothership pilots as they cannot dock to replace their fighters like regular carriers. As an FC I would be putting all my sub-battleships on killing Fighter Bombers if there was a mothership of field. When 100 BCs and hacs are shooting fighter bombers, that T2 Throax HP won't save them, and then the mothership pilot is useless.

Also, jump range boost to make them equivalent to dreads please?

Tyrant Rood
Posted - 2009.12.21 16:38:00 - [150]
 

Abathur: EvE's Messiah


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