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blankseplocked L4 missions: Ishtar v. Dominix
 
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Lyris Nairn
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.12.18 21:43:00 - [1]
 

Hello,


I am trying to decide whether or not I will want to use the Ishtar I am presently training for in missions. Right now, I use the following setup for my Dominix:

Lows: 4x t2 hardeners, 1x CPR, 2x t2 LAR
Mids: 5x Cap Recharger II
High: 1x civi railgun, 1x DLA, 2x Salvager II, 2x small tractor
Rigs: 1x t1 CCC, 2x t1 ANP

I use Numon Family Heirloom and the other active tanking implant (not ingame atm to remember number).

Against this sample guristas setup, I can tank something like 1500 dps. In any mission that is not vs. Angels, I can warp into the mission, get full-room aggro, deploy the drones, then safely go AFK to let them do their work at approx 350-470 DPS (depending on the drones). I can salvage as I go.

Fiddling with EFT gives me bigger numbers for against Guristas if I shield tank, but the numbers get much smaller if I am fighting blood raiders or angels or anything else. They get even smaller if I Armor tank, or if I add an afterburner to the fit to make salvaging quicker.

I suppose my question has to do with sig radius more than anything. Will an Ishtar's smaller size and greater speed still allow me to AFK level 4 missions with rougly half or a third of the on-paper tanking capability of the Dominix?

Hali Ekel
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.12.19 09:29:00 - [2]
 

This is my lvl 4 sentry drones ishtar fit that i`ve been using for a few months and loving it.
[Ishtar, Ishtar: Level 4 Missions Sentry Fit]
True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer

Large Capacitor Battery II
True Sansha Cap Recharger
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I

Civilian Gatling Railgun, Civilian Railgun Charge
Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I

Garde II x5
Warden II x5

You don`t really need the faction armor rep but with it I tank 850 dps against kin/therm, and my gardes do 540dps with a 40km optimal. It allows full stage aggro in any mission against kin/therm, just be sure to snipe all the webbing frigs, then orbit your sentrys and go do whatever you wanna do, the mission will be finished in 15-20 mins :)

Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2009.12.19 09:42:00 - [3]
 

Afk? Don't think so. Half-afk yes, Ishtar is good but needs more care than your Domi.
Hey, it's faster, easier to warp out if enemy is probing for you, or also easier to loot and salvage :)
You can shield or armor tank it, depending, but the shield tank is also pretty insane on it considering (no omni tracking links then, tho).

Lyris Nairn
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.12.19 10:37:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Hali Ekel
This is my lvl 4 sentry drones ishtar fit that i`ve been using for a few months and loving it.
[Ishtar, Ishtar: Level 4 Missions Sentry Fit]
True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer

Large Capacitor Battery II
True Sansha Cap Recharger
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I

Civilian Gatling Railgun, Civilian Railgun Charge
Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I

Garde II x5
Warden II x5

You don`t really need the faction armor rep but with it I tank 850 dps against kin/therm, and my gardes do 540dps with a 40km optimal. It allows full stage aggro in any mission against kin/therm, just be sure to snipe all the webbing frigs, then orbit your sentrys and go do whatever you wanna do, the mission will be finished in 15-20 mins :)
Interesting fit! Thanks for it.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.12.19 11:15:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Lyris Nairn
I suppose my question has to do with sig radius more than anything. Will an Ishtar's smaller size and greater speed still allow me to AFK level 4 missions with rougly half or a third of the on-paper tanking capability of the Dominix?
In short, yes, but it requires a bit more active flying.

You will need to nuke webbing frigates as early as possible, and at least worry about target-painting Angels as well. Of course, the simplest solution in most cases is to not get full room aggro, but since you want to remove these two classes of rats and since they often act as the wave triggers, you'll have to suffer the onslaught sooner or later… Razz

However, this only really goes for active armour tanking + AB. If you go for a passive shield tank, your sig radius will be huge and your cap will no longer support that AB, so it won't matter much: your on-paper tank will pretty closely match your realvirtual-world tank.

Aside: the funny thing about the Ishtar and its legendary tanking ability is that it's very Gurista-focused. Not only do the inherent resists match what the Guristas throw at you, the rats also tend to prefer missiles (that lose vast amounts of damage against your sig and speed) and ECM (that serve no purpose against your drones). So not only do you get higher paper tank against them – the actual performance, at least against battleships, is somewhere in the region of 4–5 that number.

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2009.12.20 01:44:00 - [6]
 

Ishtar, whether for Guri or Serp, is awesomeness.

But the inherent resists are quite lacking for any other rats.

And as has been said prior, the armor tank can be easily overwhelmed by even a single tackling rat. Best kill any and all webbers, or you're toast.

The passive shield tank is far more stable, and can easily AFK just about any L4.

If you have the shield skills to back it up (which few Gallente pilots have)

Footoo Rama
Gallente
Beyond Control.
Posted - 2009.12.20 22:34:00 - [7]
 

[Dominix, Sentry]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
100MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Garde II x5
Curator II x5

and

[Ishtar, Active mission runner]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

10MN Afterburner II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Cap Recharger II
Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter
Cap Recharger II

Dual 150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
Dual 150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
Dual 150mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge M
Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Garde II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5


Your domi is a bit overtanked IMHO.. they both work well. I tend to run my domi in missions that have less transit and require bigger tanks like AE and GE, the Ish works just as well in most situations, although the DPS is a bit lower.

Kaian Voskhod
Posted - 2009.12.21 00:03:00 - [8]
 

Well, on a domi, you can put 6x350mm and not just dpsing with drones...





Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2009.12.21 01:17:00 - [9]
 

Dominix in just about every way, as the better choice of PvE drones are Sentry, rather than heavies. You don't really want to be moving or you'll leave them behind.

Even in missions where you do move, you can fit a rack of large rails and add your gun DPS to the mission.

Break the stereotype of the 'lolAFK' super tanked Domi w/ Heavies.

Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.12.21 01:20:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Hali Ekel
This is my lvl 4 sentry drones ishtar fit that i`ve been using for a few months and loving it.
[Ishtar, Ishtar: Level 4 Missions Sentry Fit]
True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer

Large Capacitor Battery II
True Sansha Cap Recharger
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I

Civilian Gatling Railgun, Civilian Railgun Charge
Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I

Garde II x5
Warden II x5

You don`t really need the faction armor rep but with it I tank 850 dps against kin/therm, and my gardes do 540dps with a 40km optimal. It allows full stage aggro in any mission against kin/therm, just be sure to snipe all the webbing frigs, then orbit your sentrys and go do whatever you wanna do, the mission will be finished in 15-20 mins :)


Blasphemie!!!!

All those faction mods and you are not using Fed Omni's. Blasphemy!! May you burn in the pyre of your mission running nightmare while your drones are clawing your eyes out. Burn the heretic! BURN!!! Razz

Aliraxi
Gallente
Throat Slitters
Posted - 2009.12.21 02:46:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Ashina Sito
Blasphemie!!!!

All those faction mods and you are not using Fed Omni's. Blasphemy!! May you burn in the pyre of your mission running nightmare while your drones are clawing your eyes out. Burn the heretic! BURN!!! Razz


That is the single most epic reply I have ever seen to a fitting.

*applauds*

Very Happy

Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.12.21 07:40:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Ashina Sito

Blasphemie!!!!

All those faction mods and you are not using Fed Omni's. Blasphemy!! May you burn in the pyre of your mission running nightmare while your drones are clawing your eyes out. Burn the heretic! BURN!!! Razz


Well, if you actually checked out his fit, you'd note that with Drones Rigging 4 he's using 313 of 314.78 CPU. A Fednavy Omni uses 4 more CPU than a t1 Omni. Do the math.

It's the same reason I have to use a Prototype Cloaking Device I on my 0.0 plexer with t2 rigs - the Ishtar has famously terribad CPU, especially if you plan on using any drone modules at all. Sadly, the Gila is just about as bad.

Hali Ekel
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.12.21 09:43:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Ashina Sito
Blasphemie!!!!

All those faction mods and you are not using Fed Omni's. Blasphemy!! May you burn in the pyre of your mission running nightmare while your drones are clawing your eyes out. Burn the heretic! BURN!!! Razz


Heh, after watching contracts for a week for some fed navy omnis, they finally showed up last night at 250 mils a piece and yes, there is a problem with CPU on that ishtar :)
I was thinking now of switching to a drone scope II and a sentry damage rig II for 510 dps with gardes at 47 km optimal against those pesky 50-52 km orbiting gurista battleships.
Another option is a sensor booster instead of the cap recharger and a drone link augmentator together with the 5% cap / -5% cap recharge implants for 95 km targeting range with 100 km warden optimal, all cap stable :)

Admiral Atlan
Minmatar
Back to Yarrr
Posted - 2009.12.21 20:26:00 - [14]
 

just get meta 4 cap battery ... not that hard to figure out :)

Hali Ekel
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.12.21 20:53:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Admiral Atlan
just get meta 4 cap battery ... not that hard to figure out :)


I can just drop the salvager / tractor or both, it`s not about that, it`s about justifying ~120-140 mils for ~5 km optimal and a bit more tracking that I don`t really need.
It`s not like you can do any real looting / salvaging with 400m3 of cargo and 1 salvager/tractor anyway.


 

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