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Orderius
Posted - 2009.12.16 23:34:00 - [1]
 

Where do I begin, the economy of the game entails mission running, PVP, and mining but what about those guys who just like to grief others either by poding them unnecessarily or the other exploit that has been over looked.

Yes, Iím talking about those who go out looking for mission runners just to steal their salvage, we canít shoot them in empire space, nor can we lock them out of our instances or mission runs. So what I ask are we to do about it but ignore them and act as if the salvage isnít important to those who built things from salvaged materials?

I say no to this and feel that just like in other games these missions should be locked so that others cannot get into them to take someone elseís hard work away from them, it is commonly employed in other MMORGís so why is this one so different?
Am I supposed to believe that this is a part of the economy of the game? Grief is grief rather they are killing people or stealing hard-earned salvages or the like, I am probably a fool for even posting this truth but something has to be done. I simply refused to do level four missions now; I will be probably be leaving Eve yet again because of an exploit that seems to be over looked for its simplicity.

To anyone who reads this post rather you think this is just whining or you agree with me, all I am saying it that we should be allowed to complete our missions and get our own salvages without the worry that someone is going to come behind us and take away part of the economy of Eve.
If my thoughts are wrong this post will not last long before its pulled and I may get banned for my forthrightness, well whatever this is the response I get from the GMís on this issue so why would I think the Devís would listen?

Orderius

Estel Arador
Posted - 2009.12.16 23:42:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Orderius
I say no to this and feel that just like in other games these missions should be locked so that others cannot get into them to take someone elseís hard work away from them, it is commonly employed in other MMORGís so why is this one so different?


This one is so different because it has an explicit "no-instances" philosphy. That is, if you can get somewhere, so can anybody else.

As for the rest of your post, you act under the assumption that the wrecks are yours while in fact they are not - and people can't steal from you what you don't own.

And LOL @ the comment about your post getting deleted because the devs don't like it. They have seen worse than this Razz

Conrad Peet
Posted - 2009.12.16 23:54:00 - [3]
 

Don't let the door hit'cha where the good lord split'cha.

Dyphorus
Posted - 2009.12.16 23:55:00 - [4]
 

We don't want EVE to be like other games. EVE is a game of risk, in every thing you do, every time you undock. This is what makes the game different from others, this is they way it is supposed to be.

Salvage can be take, loot can be stolen, they can even kill you if the have the balls/numbers to do it before concord gets them. If you cannot except these things, EVE may not be the game for you. Sorry, but we like it the way it is.

Also.... thank you for starting the 9001st thread whining about salvage. CCP has specifically stated that salvage is not owned, ever. It was added to the game as a resource for T2 production, not to increase the income from missions. Salvaging is a profession, just like mission running, exploration, etc....

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2009.12.17 00:01:00 - [5]
 

I found this to work well:
1. Fit a salvager and a small tractor beam (optional on fast ships).
2. Destroy a ship.
3. Salvage it.
4. Repeat from 2.
Advanced students can even attack the next ship before they are finished salvaging the previous one.

Necronous
Posted - 2009.12.17 00:01:00 - [6]
 

As a mission runner I'd have to say I disagree with the OP as do many people.

I don't know about you OP, but I've played this game on and off since before Salvaging and missions are still basically the same as they always were ... with an added feature. Honestly Salvaging makes the game *feel* a bit more real. Heck I almost imagine the opening scene of Firefly where they're picking clean a ships goods. Its exactly what I'd expect in space and I'm all for it.

There are many other forms of griefing or just stale areas of EVE that need fixing in my eyes, but Salvaging is not one of them.

Ultranoia
Posted - 2009.12.17 00:03:00 - [7]
 

Salvaging, unlike mission running, is a competitive profession.

Just be glad that your missions aren't given out to everybody to finish, as they should have - aka an open contract system that anyone with the required standings can accept and the first to turn it in gets the agent's reward Very Happy


Zartanic
Posted - 2009.12.17 01:05:00 - [8]
 

If players insist on doing missions in the most popular areas they will have salvage ninjas. So they are lazy, tough luck. There are many good L4 mission agents miles away from anywhere and you won't be touched in months.

Abdiesus
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2009.12.17 01:26:00 - [9]
 

Hello OP,

I like salvage. More specifically, I like the salvage I create when I activate my Salvager 1s on the wrecks which mission runners like yourself leave scattered around the place. Just as you must enjoy the loot you create when you activate your weapons on an enemy NPC/player.

The salvage is not yours until it's in your hold, unlike the loot, which I am flagged for pinching(not that that stops me mind Laughing). This has been stated by the devs, the production team AND the GMs on multiple occasions(someone else can post the quotes, I didn't bother to BM them). There is no bug, no exploit, no unintended gameplay going on when someone scans you down and salvages wrecks in your mission space.

Salvage the wrecks yourself, and the salvage is yours.
Hire someone to salvage the wrecks for you, and the salvage is yours.
Blow up the wrecks, and the salvage is nobody's.

Those are your options, unless you prefer to cry more, which is fine by us as Tears make excellent fuel for our Vigils.

Rotnac
Caldari
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
Posted - 2009.12.17 04:05:00 - [10]
 

Yeah, no. Everything in Eve has risk - and the NPCs in missions currently don't count. They are already so well documented, its not an issue. Thus, the risk is that other people could come in and kill you/salvage your stuff, etc. Instanced missions would eliminate all risk. If you want that, play some other MMO.

Nitemare111
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.12.17 04:36:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Nitemare111 on 17/12/2009 04:37:09
OP:

The entire point of Eve is that there is no safety anywhere. Learn it, live it, love it.

Eve is not like the other MMOGs out there. There's no instances, no "safe" places, no handholding, (other than the tutorials). Any security you desire is up to you and any people you band together with to create and maintain. That's the way the game is built, that's the way the playerbase wants it, aside from the lazy, stupid, and bedwetters.

If you feel you need to leave Eve again because you can't handle reality within the game, you should probably not come back again. You don't get it. You never will. WoW is thataway. Arrow

Can I has yer stuffs?

Vritri
Posted - 2009.12.17 04:38:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Vritri on 17/12/2009 04:38:43
I understand the sentiment, and in some nuances even agree with it, but you're posting this on the wrong game's forums pretty much. People here aren't gonna care about this kind of thing, because the game has a very 'devs hands off' approach for things. If you're looking for a game that discourages people from being rude to each other, this is probably not the game to do it.

Now, it's not a game where everyone necessarily is rude, but it's a game that tends to draw that kind of player because they aren't really welcome anywhere else. If you're looking for sympathy, this is about as close as you'll probably get. If you're looking for changes, I doubt you'll see it anytime soon.

While if they did implement those changes, CCP would probably see a lot more players (they'd lose a large majority of the current players, but they'd probably get many more new players that are turned off by Eve's current environment) it's not something they see fit to do. At this point in Eve's life, it's probably so old that doing that wouldn't even draw in new players (gets very hard to draw new players into an MMO after a certain period of it's life). So I wouldn't expect to see any changes to ninja-salvagers, griefing, can flippers, or any of the other behaviour that often draws complaints. Sorry. Might I recommend trading, there are a lot less ways to get griefed unless you like hanging out in Jita for some reason.

Cyprus Black
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.12.17 04:45:00 - [13]
 

Per CCP Mitnal:
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."

Per GM Faolchu :
Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.

Per Senior GM Ytterbium :
Originally by: GM Ytterbium
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.

Per CCP Prism X :
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.

Per CCP Incognito :
Originally by: CCP Incognito
Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.

(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.12.17 04:47:00 - [14]
 

Quote:
I say no to this and feel that just like in other games these missions should be locked so that others cannot get into them to take someone elseís hard work away from them, it is commonly employed in other MMORGís so why is this one so different?


Because EVE is a competitive, PVP-oriented MMO. WoW, Lineage, and other MMOs you may have been coming from are cooperative-oriented MMOs.

That's EVE. If you can't handle having to compete, then this is not the game for you.

Forranz
Malice.
Tentative Nature
Posted - 2009.12.17 04:51:00 - [15]
 

Ahem. Can I has yer stuff?Razz

Omir Brakre
Posted - 2009.12.17 09:56:00 - [16]
 

More like stupidity that can't be stopped ughRolling Eyes

Avo Daith
Public Venture Enterprises
Posted - 2009.12.17 10:56:00 - [17]
 

OK I'm now officially sick of seeing this type of thread. My main is a mission runner but I've never been bothered by salvagers. If you are being bothered by them enough for it to be a serious problem there's many things you can do about it. Those things are detailed in many, many threads about it.

Learn to use the goddamn search.

Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.12.17 12:06:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Baka Lakadaka on 17/12/2009 12:15:14
Edited by: Baka Lakadaka on 17/12/2009 12:09:00
Originally by: Cyprus Black
Per CCP Mitnal:
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."

Per GM Faolchu :
Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.

Per Senior GM Ytterbium :
Originally by: GM Ytterbium
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.

Per CCP Prism X :
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.

Per CCP Incognito :
Originally by: CCP Incognito
Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.

(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)


I think I'll file this too - for the next time someone's under the misapprehension that this is a problem.

Edit for the OP: The term "Griefing" is so misunderstood it almost brings me to tears. Every time something happens that doesn't fit with someone's perception of how things should be it's "griefing". Please check the definition of words before using them.

2nd Edit: Where are the Suddnely Ninjas? Why are we left to defend their profession for them? RazzRazz

Dragas Amitar
Gallente
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2009.12.17 12:34:00 - [19]
 

Sup, bro.

Abdiesus
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2009.12.17 12:37:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Baka Lakadaka


2nd Edit: Where are the Suddnely Ninjas? Why are we left to defend their profession for them? RazzRazz


Pardonne moi, I forgot to turn on my corp ticker. What, was the Tears/fuel reference not enough of a clue? Razz

Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.12.17 12:49:00 - [21]
 

Bloody Stealthy Ninjas! Who'd have guessed!

Lordsatan666
Posted - 2009.12.17 13:08:00 - [22]
 

I can sort of understand the frustration of people but I think it adds to the exceitement of the game.
You have to be watching the npcs and keeping an eye out for a sneaky ninja
E.G I like to go ratting/salvaging in 0.5-0.4 space and quite often come accross wrecks that others have created.Sometimes I ask and sometimes I just salvage them along with "my wrecks"..what are they gonna do?
On the other hand I have been in the middle of a level 3 and in warps a ninja which I find infuriating but what can I do?
They have scanned me down and found me and proceed to steal "my stuff" all part of the game isn't it?
I am a carebear still as only a couple of months old but I like the danger of people out there to get me.

Junko Togawa
Caldari
Posted - 2009.12.17 13:39:00 - [23]
 

Nicely worded troll.

On the very slim chance it's not(seeing as this is Q&A), it's easy. Get away from mission hubs. Ninjas, like you, aren't looking to work hard for their gameplay. They go where there's a plethora of targets. Seek out the lower-quality agents. No, you don't make as much. But if it's worth it to you, you'll move.

Otherwise, shoot the wrecks, if you care so much about a response to their efforts.

Amy Platt
Posted - 2009.12.17 13:40:00 - [24]
 

omg a ninja salvaging thread...

not seen one of these before Rolling Eyes

dtyk
Posted - 2009.12.17 16:14:00 - [25]
 

I want to see the ops posts when he realizes that the guy who sells him his first CNR just sold him a Raven for 400% of the market price and did nothing against the rules.

dee Frost
Minmatar
Duct Tape and String
Posted - 2009.12.17 16:21:00 - [26]
 


You dont get EVE do you

Mara Abraham
Minmatar
The Tuskers
Posted - 2009.12.17 16:29:00 - [27]
 

Greetings Orderius:

What MMO's have you played where every mission, quest, etc. is in an instance where only the party members (1 or more) are able to do things?

While I do believe it is aggravating to be Ninja salvaged, so is waiting several hours for a spawn to finish a quest only to have some one just jump in and get the first hit; or for the MMO's that give the kill to the one who did the most damage, you go there first... but another individual or group comes in to finish off the mobs and get the credit.

Eve is not alone in terms of an open environment where stuff like Ninja salvaging happens. If it is of any comfort, you are not alone in your aggravation; but it is also a part of the game.

Thank you.

Meat Bucket
Crush Kill Destroy
Posted - 2009.12.17 16:59:00 - [28]
 

I love the carebear tears. Please keep them coming. Post again! YARRRR!!

In other words, Eve is not like "other MMOs". It is SUPPOSED to be hard, other people are SUPPOSED to mess with you. It's not griefing.

Maybe the OP should go back to WoW.

Junko Togawa
Caldari
Posted - 2009.12.17 19:56:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Mara Abraham
Greetings Orderius:

What MMO's have you played where every mission, quest, etc. is in an instance where only the party members (1 or more) are able to do things?




Guild Wars. ugh

Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Posted - 2009.12.17 20:31:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Orderius
... all I am saying it that we should be allowed to complete our missions and get our own salvages without the worry that someone is going to come behind us and take away part of the economy of Eve.



And just how, pray tell, does someone other than you salvaging the wrecks in a mission take anything away from the economy?

Also, there are no instances in EVE. There is no such thing as true privacy while in space, that is integral to the core design of the game and will never change.

My summary: OP is confused and does not 'get' EVE or economics...


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