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Negativestatus
Caldari
Never Enough Ammo
Posted - 2009.12.14 10:34:00 - [1]
 

Is there a balance reason why the falcon doesn't have the same size drone bay as a rook? Shocked

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2009.12.14 18:36:00 - [2]
 

Yes.

Empire Dweller
Posted - 2009.12.14 18:56:00 - [3]
 

No.

Ethan Blue
Caldari
Dirty Rotten Bastards
Posted - 2009.12.14 19:49:00 - [4]
 

Maybe.

Occams Legwax
Posted - 2009.12.14 19:52:00 - [5]
 

although

tartan pixie
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.12.14 19:57:00 - [6]
 

cloaking

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.12.15 00:34:00 - [7]
 

wombats

Pupp3tMast3r
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.12.15 00:48:00 - [8]
 

make

James Tritanius
Posted - 2009.12.15 00:50:00 - [9]
 

babies

Lone Gunman
Forhotea Corporation
Posted - 2009.12.15 00:51:00 - [10]
 

Cry

Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
Posted - 2009.12.15 02:10:00 - [11]
 

Caldari have nerfed drone bays.

Speculation has been that it is due to missile usage although I am not quite sure what one has to do with the other since the new missile damage/speed nerfs.

At one time Falcon was a missile boat. When it was changed to a turret boat the bay was not changed. Perhaps an oversight. Rolling Eyes

On another note:

Typhoon still has a huge drone bay ( Tier 1 ship with 175 m3 drone capacity & 125 Mbit/sec) despite having 8 high slots with up to 5 launcher hardpoints and 5 turret hardpoints (both with a ROF bonus)! Shocked

Raven has a modest drone bay (Tier 2 ship with 75 m3 drone capacity & 75 Mbit/sec) though it does get 8 high slots with up to 6 (ROF bonused) launcher hard points and 4 (lol) unbonused turret hard points.

While Rokh has a gimped drone bay ( Tier 3 ship with 50 m3 drone capacity & 50 Mbit/sec) with 8 high slots with up to 4 launcher hardpoints (no bonus) and up to 8 turret hard points (with a range bonus) *\0/* and a resist bonus to shields.


In short:

You gets no dronzes!

Bush hates Black people and CCP hates Caldari!

(Tinfoil hats and pyro suits equipped for incoming)






Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2009.12.15 06:06:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Patri Andari
Caldari have nerfed drone bays.

Speculation has been that it is due to missile usage although I am not quite sure what one has to do with the other since the new missile damage/speed nerfs.

At one time Falcon was a missile boat. When it was changed to a turret boat the bay was not changed. Perhaps an oversight. Rolling Eyes

On another note:

Typhoon still has a huge drone bay ( Tier 1 ship with 175 m3 drone capacity & 125 Mbit/sec) despite having 8 high slots with up to 5 launcher hardpoints and 5 turret hardpoints (both with a ROF bonus)! Shocked

Raven has a modest drone bay (Tier 2 ship with 75 m3 drone capacity & 75 Mbit/sec) though it does get 8 high slots with up to 6 (ROF bonused) launcher hard points and 4 (lol) unbonused turret hard points.

While Rokh has a gimped drone bay ( Tier 3 ship with 50 m3 drone capacity & 50 Mbit/sec) with 8 high slots with up to 4 launcher hardpoints (no bonus) and up to 8 turret hard points (with a range bonus) *\0/* and a resist bonus to shields.


In short:

You gets no dronzes!

Bush hates Black people and CCP hates Caldari!

(Tinfoil hats and pyro suits equipped for incoming)






You wanna know the real reason Caldari cant have nice drone bays? It's because you broke this thread and made my doggy weep.

When you show that you can handle nice things, maybe you'll be trusted with them.Evil or Very Mad

Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
Posted - 2009.12.15 09:25:00 - [13]
 

Sorry Sad

Haramir Haleths
Caldari
Nutella Bande
Posted - 2009.12.15 15:39:00 - [14]
 

Cause of Falcon

Zaq Phelps
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.12.15 20:18:00 - [15]
 

The falcon (or any force recon really) isn't supposed to be very good at direct combat. Giving the falcon a regular dronebay like the rook would have overshadowed the rook. You obviously won't do much with two light drones, but some ideas come to mind: logistic drones for repping frigates (read bombers) during/after battle, target painting drones to help your bomber friends increase damage, warrior II's to use in conjuction with neuts to dissuade frigates from getting too close, ecm drones for that extra couple of low-chance cycles. Be creative, but don't forget that the falcon's main job is still to **** people off and run away like a little *****.

Boosterjunkie
Posted - 2009.12.16 23:23:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Haramir Haleths
Cause of Falcon


Is always primary

Radcjk
Failed Diplomacy
B A N E
Posted - 2009.12.16 23:35:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Zaq Phelps
The falcon (or any force recon really) isn't supposed to be very good at direct combat. Giving the falcon a regular dronebay like the rook would have overshadowed the rook. You obviously won't do much with two light drones, but some ideas come to mind: logistic drones for repping frigates (read bombers) during/after battle, target painting drones to help your bomber friends increase damage, warrior II's to use in conjuction with neuts to dissuade frigates from getting too close, ecm drones for that extra couple of low-chance cycles. Be creative, but don't forget that the falcon's main job is still to **** people off and run away like a little *****.



I bolded the parts of this that actually don't make much sense. The point of all Force Recons is to cause electronic warfare headaches, and none of them are very good at direct combat in comparison to Combat Recons, or HACs. While webs and damps as a viable form of EW are debatable (due to nerfs in strength, mechanics, scripts, etc), all other races recon boats have a 40m3 drone bay.

One balance issue compared to them could be that drones + missiles is too much 'automatic' dps, avoiding turret mechanics in tandem with the uber-ewar, ecm, but this isn't true.... because the Falcon now has guns and the Rook gets the bigger drone bay so apparently CCP doesn't see it as a large balance issue. Also, every race has a recon ship with a 40m3 drone bay that uses missiles as its primary weapon. The only difference with rook is +2 launchers at -15m3 drones.

This doesn't apply to the falcon, which is now a bonused gun boat. Your reasoning is flawed and the falcon got screwed.


Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
Posted - 2009.12.17 07:12:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Radcjk
Originally by: Zaq Phelps
The falcon (or any force recon really) isn't supposed to be very good at direct combat. Giving the falcon a regular dronebay like the rook would have overshadowed the rook. You obviously won't do much with two light drones, but some ideas come to mind: logistic drones for repping frigates (read bombers) during/after battle, target painting drones to help your bomber friends increase damage, warrior II's to use in conjuction with neuts to dissuade frigates from getting too close, ecm drones for that extra couple of low-chance cycles. Be creative, but don't forget that the falcon's main job is still to **** people off and run away like a little *****.



I bolded the parts of this that actually don't make much sense. The point of all Force Recons is to cause electronic warfare headaches, and none of them are very good at direct combat in comparison to Combat Recons, or HACs. While webs and damps as a viable form of EW are debatable (due to nerfs in strength, mechanics, scripts, etc), all other races recon boats have a 40m3 drone bay.

One balance issue compared to them could be that drones + missiles is too much 'automatic' dps, avoiding turret mechanics in tandem with the uber-ewar, ecm, but this isn't true.... because the Falcon now has guns and the Rook gets the bigger drone bay so apparently CCP doesn't see it as a large balance issue. Also, every race has a recon ship with a 40m3 drone bay that uses missiles as its primary weapon. The only difference with rook is +2 launchers at -15m3 drones.

This doesn't apply to the falcon, which is now a bonused gun boat. Your reasoning is flawed and the falcon got screwed.






Word.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.12.17 07:41:00 - [19]
 

So you want every ship to be the same (dronebay) but at the same time you also want them different (overpoweredness of ECM), well done for completely misunderstanding "balance" with "I want it all, GIMME MY COOKIE!".

Don't forget you stamp your foot for extra emphasis.

Radcjk
Failed Diplomacy
B A N E
Posted - 2009.12.17 16:05:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Marko Riva
So you want every ship to be the same (dronebay) but at the same time you also want them different (overpoweredness of ECM), well done for completely misunderstanding "balance" with "I want it all, GIMME MY COOKIE!".

Don't forget you stamp your foot for extra emphasis.



I was going to type something witty, but the effort just wasn't worth it. Good try, but you lack any sort of worth while statement supported by (even incorrect) facts of any nature. I don't want them to have the same drone bay, I'd just like the Falcon to have more than a token drone bay. Also, it isn't about wanting all ships to be the same, it was a point of difference that the Falcon is the only Force Recon with less than a 40m3 drone bay... 3 out of 4 sounds balanced to me!

And since we're now making statements with firm conviction about others, I dare say... Your trolling sucks and your reasoning more so.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.12.17 17:32:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Radcjk
Originally by: Marko Riva
So you want every ship to be the same (dronebay) but at the same time you also want them different (overpoweredness of ECM), well done for completely misunderstanding "balance" with "I want it all, GIMME MY COOKIE!".

Don't forget you stamp your foot for extra emphasis.



I was going to type something witty, but the effort just wasn't worth it. Good try, but you lack any sort of worth while statement supported by (even incorrect) facts of any nature. I don't want them to have the same drone bay, I'd just like the Falcon to have more than a token drone bay. Also, it isn't about wanting all ships to be the same, it was a point of difference that the Falcon is the only Force Recon with less than a 40m3 drone bay... 3 out of 4 sounds balanced to me!

And since we're now making statements with firm conviction about others, I dare say... Your trolling sucks and your reasoning more so.


Are you disagreeing that the Falcon, as a fleet support ship, outperforms the other recons?

GavinCapacitor
Posted - 2009.12.17 20:13:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Patri Andari
Caldari have nerfed drone bays.

Speculation has been that it is due to missile usage although I am not quite sure what one has to do with the other since the new missile damage/speed nerfs.

At one time Falcon was a missile boat. When it was changed to a turret boat the bay was not changed. Perhaps an oversight. Rolling Eyes

On another note:

Typhoon still has a huge drone bay ( Tier 1 ship with 175 m3 drone capacity & 125 Mbit/sec) despite having 8 high slots with up to 5 launcher hardpoints and 5 turret hardpoints (both with a ROF bonus)! Shocked

Raven has a modest drone bay (Tier 2 ship with 75 m3 drone capacity & 75 Mbit/sec) though it does get 8 high slots with up to 6 (ROF bonused) launcher hard points and 4 (lol) unbonused turret hard points.

While Rokh has a gimped drone bay ( Tier 3 ship with 50 m3 drone capacity & 50 Mbit/sec) with 8 high slots with up to 4 launcher hardpoints (no bonus) and up to 8 turret hard points (with a range bonus) *\0/* and a resist bonus to shields.


In short:

You gets no dronzes!

Bush hates Black people and CCP hates Caldari!

(Tinfoil hats and pyro suits equipped for incoming)




Good job, you broke it.

Feyona
Time Bandits.
Posted - 2009.12.17 22:36:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Radcjk
Originally by: Marko Riva
So you want every ship to be the same (dronebay) but at the same time you also want them different (overpoweredness of ECM), well done for completely misunderstanding "balance" with "I want it all, GIMME MY COOKIE!".

Don't forget you stamp your foot for extra emphasis.



I was going to type something witty, but the effort just wasn't worth it. Good try, but you lack any sort of worth while statement supported by (even incorrect) facts of any nature. I don't want them to have the same drone bay, I'd just like the Falcon to have more than a token drone bay. Also, it isn't about wanting all ships to be the same, it was a point of difference that the Falcon is the only Force Recon with less than a 40m3 drone bay... 3 out of 4 sounds balanced to me!

And since we're now making statements with firm conviction about others, I dare say... Your trolling sucks and your reasoning more so.


But it's true, since the Falcon has the most powerful ewar, it gets the worst direct combat capabilities. It's a tradeoff. Sure, the others have better dronebays, but they have worse ewar. The Rapier and the Arazu in particular have very little means to mitigate incoming damage in comparison with the Falcon. The Pilgrim seems to have both (in the form of tracking disruption and the drone bonus) but it must get right up on its enemy to work its magic.

You want to take the recon that is best at the actual job of recons (ewar) and buff it. Then it can be best or equal in all categories. Okay. Neutral

Pater Peccavi
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2009.12.17 23:55:00 - [24]
 

I agree. Swap one of the ECM bonuses on the falcon to a Target Painter bonus, then give it a 40m3 dronebay.


 

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