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Flora Sma
Posted - 2009.12.08 11:43:00 - [1]
 

I've got a problem with Vagabonds - I find that when flown safely they put out mediocre damage. Since they are generally popular ships I wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

Axiom 1: Vagas should use autocannons.
Axiom 2: A webbed vaga is a dead vaga.

Assuming a fairly even fight I generally try to keep my vaga at least 15km away from hostiles to avoid being webbed. The optimal range of the autocannons is between 2-5km depending on ammo, with a falloff of 14-17km depending on skills.

If my target is at 15km I'm I can do 60% of maximum DPS, which is OK...
but if it is a 20km I'm down to about 40% and at 30km I'm hardly doing any damage.

Any thoughts?

Asuka Smith
Gallente
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Posted - 2009.12.08 11:48:00 - [2]
 

With 2x tracking enhancers you for 75% of your damage at 20km.

Aunt Red
Posted - 2009.12.08 11:50:00 - [3]
 

Primary focus of Vaga isnŽt to do damage, really. More for tackle and wittling someone down/wait for real DPS.

Cruisers and frigs will drop very fast anyway. Anything bigger than a cruiser, and youŽll have to be careful.


LiNuXb0y
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2009.12.08 11:54:00 - [4]
 

Thats very low falloff for a vaga, mine has an optimal of 2.8 and falloff of 27, so your fighting always at the max of your falloff, where as im never really above 60%. Are you useing barrage? emp may give better eft numbers but barrage is better in game.

And no i dont think a webbed vaga is a dead vaga as if its only 1, sometimes even 2 webs you can still burn out of the web range, however a scramed vaga is often dead vaga

THEDON1
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2009.12.08 12:00:00 - [5]
 

the problem is ur flying it 'safe' It's a vagabond dude fly it like u stole it ! :) and obbiusly don't get web n tackled unless u know there going to pop fast. They excell at killing frigate tacklers I've found so u can use this to mwd away from a gate get the support frigs to chase you and pop them infront there buddies. takes skill and balls to pull it off but is fun as hell if u can manage it and find the right fleet to fight. U can pop most npcers on belts as well so u can get in closer to them so increase your dps.YARRRR!!

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2009.12.08 13:22:00 - [6]
 

You've discovered the reason I have zero respect for vagabonds and vagabond pilots. The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. That one strength makes it incredibly popular as most players are terribly risk averse, even "hardcore" pvp'ers. I would advise against using that particular ship but if you must fly it, I would avoid all ships with any sort of armament beyond a few hammerheads. You can attack haulers, miners and the occasional noob in a t1 frigate but that's about it. It's great for making an epic k/d ratio but you can't kill anything worthwhile so it's not cost effective at all.

Everyone on the forums, proceed with the flaming.Laughing

Studley Goodfk
Posted - 2009.12.08 13:45:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
... The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. ...


So every combatant that used guerilla tactics in the whole history of warfare has been a coward? From the Americans in the War of Independence, to the Boers, to the Greek and French Resistances in WW2 and the Vietnamese in the 60s all the way through to the current conflicts? Just because someone doesn't stand toe to toe and fight against an opponent they would be unable to beat doesn't make them cowards - it makes them smart.

The ship is designed to be a guerilla warfare ship. It gets in quick, delivers a killing blow to those that it can and GTFO before the big guns turn up. If no support is in reserve then it is capable of whittling down even strong opponents who do not know how to deal with it. You may have no respect for Vagas and their pilots, then by all means kill all of them that you can. Don't be surprised to find that, just occasionally, you find yourself on the losing side of one. Call him a coward in Local chat and listen to the howls of laughter. :)

Kenpotchi
Posted - 2009.12.08 14:09:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Kenpotchi on 08/12/2009 14:16:03

[Vagabond, New Setup 1]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Domination Warp Disruptor
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Warrior II x5


This is the set up that I run. Just my preference. You can add more faction bling if you'd like. If i were to I would add faction gyros and faction MWD.

About 407 realistic DPS. 516 EFT DPS with out implants. 32k EHP. Speed of 2500. Really dosent matter how long the cap lasts b/c your suppose to pulse you MWD any way. The neut is for pesky tackelers that shut off the MWD.

Shady Salesman
Posted - 2009.12.08 14:15:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Shady Salesman on 08/12/2009 14:15:18
Originally by: King Rothgar
You've discovered the reason I have zero respect for vagabonds and vagabond pilots. The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. That one strength makes it incredibly popular as most players are terribly risk averse, even "hardcore" pvp'ers. I would advise against using that particular ship but if you must fly it, I would avoid all ships with any sort of armament beyond a few hammerheads. You can attack haulers, miners and the occasional noob in a t1 frigate but that's about it. It's great for making an epic k/d ratio but you can't kill anything worthwhile so it's not cost effective at all.

Everyone on the forums, proceed with the flaming.Laughing


http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1215816

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.12.08 14:26:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Studley Goodfk

So every combatant that used guerilla tactics in the whole history of warfare has been a coward?


Right. "Coward" is used most often by a losing force that cannot adapt to their enemy's tactics. Rolling Eyes

AZN Steve
Amarr
Posted - 2009.12.08 14:29:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
You've discovered the reason I have zero respect for vagabonds and vagabond pilots. The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. That one strength makes it incredibly popular as most players are terribly risk averse, even "hardcore" pvp'ers. I would advise against using that particular ship but if you must fly it, I would avoid all ships with any sort of armament beyond a few hammerheads. You can attack haulers, miners and the occasional noob in a t1 frigate but that's about it. It's great for making an epic k/d ratio but you can't kill anything worthwhile so it's not cost effective at all.

Everyone on the forums, proceed with the flaming.Laughing


you're an idiot if you think vaga can't kill anything above a hauler or a t1 frig . dps isnt much lower than that of a hurricane and as for the coward's pvp ship . maybe you should actually fly one and see how much of a coward you need to be to jump into a gatecamp and pretty much kill everything solo using TACTICS , instead of pressing F1 and see who wins .

OT : you need more falloff and probably a better fit . Falloff post-dominion should be around 40km with barrage

Psiri
Posted - 2009.12.08 15:12:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Psiri on 08/12/2009 15:15:59
I've seen a select few Vagabond pilots do amazing things, the vast majority however would be far better off flying something else.

I think that it can truly be a rewarding ship to fly, but mastering it would probably run you more Vagabonds than what you'd care to pay for.

It's also one of those ships where a faction point seems to be in order.

Grarr Wrexx
Posted - 2009.12.08 15:16:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
You've discovered the reason I have zero respect for vagabonds and vagabond pilots. The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. That one strength makes it incredibly popular as most players are terribly risk averse, even "hardcore" pvp'ers. I would advise against using that particular ship but if you must fly it, I would avoid all ships with any sort of armament beyond a few hammerheads. You can attack haulers, miners and the occasional noob in a t1 frigate but that's about it. It's great for making an epic k/d ratio but you can't kill anything worthwhile so it's not cost effective at all.

Everyone on the forums, proceed with the flaming.Laughing


Yep, and overtanked lowsec abaddons aren't coward ships, right?

Caldari Citizen4714
Posted - 2009.12.08 15:26:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Aunt Red
Primary focus of Vaga isnŽt to do damage, really. More for tackle and wittling someone down/wait for real DPS.

Cruisers and frigs will drop very fast anyway. Anything bigger than a cruiser, and youŽll have to be careful.


Violating this expectation is what makes flying a high DPS high EHP vaga a blast.

My setup isn't the fastest, but puts out ~500 DPS with RF fusion and has 37k EHP + 9 minutes of neuting.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2009.12.08 18:12:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 08/12/2009 18:13:42
Originally by: Seriously Bored

Right. "Coward" is used most often by a losing force that cannot adapt to their enemy's tactics. Rolling Eyes


Against a stupid opponent, using your wits could be seen as cowardice.

Its the one weapon they have no defense against afterall.


On a slightly related note, I have way more respect for pilots flying their 200mill HACs in a fleet battle where one single mistake means they are done for, compared to the typical BS pilots safely sitting in their RR circle ready to deagress and dock / jump.

Deathbarrage
Posted - 2009.12.08 20:58:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Studley Goodfk
Originally by: King Rothgar
... The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. ...


So every combatant that used guerilla tactics in the whole history of warfare has been a coward? From the Americans in the War of Independence, to the Boers, to the Greek and French Resistances in WW2 and the Vietnamese in the 60s all the way through to the current conflicts? Just because someone doesn't stand toe to toe and fight against an opponent they would be unable to beat doesn't make them cowards - it makes them smart.

The ship is designed to be a guerilla warfare ship. It gets in quick, delivers a killing blow to those that it can and GTFO before the big guns turn up. If no support is in reserve then it is capable of whittling down even strong opponents who do not know how to deal with it. You may have no respect for Vagas and their pilots, then by all means kill all of them that you can. Don't be surprised to find that, just occasionally, you find yourself on the losing side of one. Call him a coward in Local chat and listen to the howls of laughter. :)


i do pronounce you an idiot for comparing ww2 resistance fighters to a dude playing a 2009 computer game

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2009.12.08 21:14:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Deathbarrage

i do pronounce you an idiot for comparing ww2 resistance fighters to a dude playing a 2009 computer game


Abstraction isnt your strong point, eh?

dtyk
Posted - 2009.12.08 21:32:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Deathbarrage

i do pronounce you an idiot for comparing ww2 resistance fighters to a dude playing a 2009 computer game


Abstraction isnt your strong point, eh?


What did you JUST say about stupid opponents?

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2009.12.08 22:54:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Studley Goodfk
So every combatant that used guerilla tactics in the whole history of warfare has been a coward? From the Americans in the War of Independence, to the Boers, to the Greek and French Resistances in WW2 and the Vietnamese in the 60s all the way through to the current conflicts?


Posting in a thread where players in a video game are compared to American Revolutionaries.

I wonder what ship Paul Revere would fly? Probably Vagabond.


Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.12.08 23:04:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
You've discovered the reason I have zero respect for vagabonds and vagabond pilots. The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. That one strength makes it incredibly popular as most players are terribly risk averse, even "hardcore" pvp'ers. I would advise against using that particular ship but if you must fly it, I would avoid all ships with any sort of armament beyond a few hammerheads. You can attack haulers, miners and the occasional noob in a t1 frigate but that's about it. It's great for making an epic k/d ratio but you can't kill anything worthwhile so it's not cost effective at all.

Everyone on the forums, proceed with the flaming.Laughing


You truly have a lot of posts on here showing how incompetent you are. I can't tell if you're trolling or not.

Norwood Franskly
Minmatar
Fleet of the Damned
Eternal Ascension
Posted - 2009.12.08 23:20:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Kenpotchi
Vaga setup

3 Gyros or gtfo

Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.12.08 23:57:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. That one strength makes it incredibly popular...


This is the key.

A Vaga can kill anything that can catch it and can run from anything that can kill it.

When I am training people I tell them to basically ignore Vagas do to the above. A solo Vega is not a threat to a half decent fit ratter. When you start hitting multiple Vaga's things change, but if your out numbered your in trouble anyway.

Vega's are in much better shape then back in the nano age. Being balanced at means people can use them but they are not the "default" PvP ship. Small gang PvP is far more interesting and fun these days. Never liked seeing a KM with 30 pilots on it and 23 were Vaga's... Rolling Eyes

It is a good ship, it does what it does well (heavy tackle/solo anti-ratter).

Th0rG0d
Terminal Pharmaceuticals Inc.
Posted - 2009.12.09 00:24:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Guillame Herschel


Posting in a thread where players in a video game are compared to American Revolutionaries.

I wonder what ship Paul Revere would fly? Probably Vagabond.




Laughing

Made my day

abrasive soap
Operational Detachment-Alpha
Posted - 2009.12.09 00:32:00 - [24]
 

the vagabond has one of the best tanks as far as hacs go

Alty McAltyalt
Posted - 2009.12.09 01:38:00 - [25]
 

[Vagabond, Dominion Standard]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I


Warrior II x5

With MX-2 implant, AC and drone spec 4:

425 DPS at 20km
345 DPS at 30km

New vaga is prettymuch better than sex.

Removal Tool
Unleet Industries LLC
Posted - 2009.12.09 03:34:00 - [26]
 

Hey Flora, did you read the patch notes?

Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
Posted - 2009.12.09 03:55:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Flora Sma
I've got a problem with Vagabonds - I find that when flown safely they put out mediocre damage. Since they are generally popular ships I wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

Axiom 1: Vagas should use autocannons.
Axiom 2: A webbed vaga is a dead vaga.

Assuming a fairly even fight I generally try to keep my vaga at least 15km away from hostiles to avoid being webbed. The optimal range of the autocannons is between 2-5km depending on ammo, with a falloff of 14-17km depending on skills.

If my target is at 15km I'm I can do 60% of maximum DPS, which is OK...
but if it is a 20km I'm down to about 40% and at 30km I'm hardly doing any damage.

Any thoughts?


You can evade most stuff outdamaging you at 20-30km (cerb, zealot), or move in closer and butcher stuff 1vs.1 with your excellent dmg selectivity (swaping 80% of your dps to specific dmg types is awesome)...for example both the ships above have little luck against an EMP vs. cerb or Phased Plasma vs. Zealot scenario. Wanting more than that is not a paradox, it would be way more imbalanced tho...

The Vaga is again FOTM...

Robert Rumpletweezer
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2009.12.09 04:07:00 - [28]
 

I have a theory: people are idiots.

The person talking about honour and cowardice in this game proves this.

Cool.

L Kahn
Sancta Terra
Posted - 2009.12.09 04:15:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
You've discovered the reason I have zero respect for vagabonds and vagabond pilots. The ship is basically a coward's pvp ship. It has very little damage, no real tank but is really fantastic at running away from everyone. That one strength makes it incredibly popular as most players are terribly risk averse, even "hardcore" pvp'ers. I would advise against using that particular ship but if you must fly it, I would avoid all ships with any sort of armament beyond a few hammerheads. You can attack haulers, miners and the occasional noob in a t1 frigate but that's about it. It's great for making an epic k/d ratio but you can't kill anything worthwhile so it's not cost effective at all.

Everyone on the forums, proceed with the flaming.Laughing



TT_TT i like to fly vagas, when im not pinching pennies anyway... it is a fantastic ship, range is your best friend had one in a fleet fight a few days ago yea i died got neuting and primaried before i could gtfo, but their fun tastics ships :)

Ignitious Hellfury
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
Posted - 2009.12.09 05:27:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Flora Sma
I've got a problem with Vagabonds - I find that when flown safely they put out mediocre damage. Since they are generally popular ships I wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

Axiom 1: Vagas should use autocannons.
Axiom 2: A webbed vaga is a dead vaga.

Assuming a fairly even fight I generally try to keep my vaga at least 15km away from hostiles to avoid being webbed. The optimal range of the autocannons is between 2-5km depending on ammo, with a falloff of 14-17km depending on skills.

If my target is at 15km I'm I can do 60% of maximum DPS, which is OK...
but if it is a 20km I'm down to about 40% and at 30km I'm hardly doing any damage.

Any thoughts?


17km falloff?

Do you use t1 guns?

Get barrage, problem solved... Next.


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