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Dav Varan
Posted - 2009.12.10 15:14:00 - [31]
 

lol this is a joke post right ?
Your having us on ?

You want to take the second best PvP race ( after minmatar ) and make it even more powerful by what look likes +50% boost across your entire range.

Ho Ho Ho.

If your having problems with tracking then learn to fly your ships.
I'll give you a clue , click approach , web , fire is not what you should be doing.

The tracking boosts you request are unwaranted , blaster allready have the best tracking in game or at least equal to auto's iirc.

You complained somewhere about pulses having better tracking at there optimal ?
It may be true , but the point is when your at your optimal you have the better tracking
much better than pulse at your optimal why on earth do you need 50% more unless you want the game to do everything for you.

Ranged rails are not a gall spec they are a Cal spec.
You want best short range boats boosted and you want ranged option ?
erm no.

If you want ranged rails then fly caldari rail boats.
Personally I wouldnt bother there all crap.

A set of ships Incursus > Mega that get a 100% boost to afterburner speed.
looooool

So every other race has to fit mwd with cap hit , sig hit and large cap usage while gal get to zoom about with ultra effective AB's

If you cant see how that would be massivelly overpowered theres really no hope for your game balancing asperations.

Drones are ****age when properly trained not only againt there class size , but also against smaller targets , blaster may require the application of some tactics but hit hard when used properly.

Some of the best ships in game are Gallente.
Off the top of my head
Incursus , Vexor , Thorax , Domi , Mega , taranis , ishkur , ishtar , myrm, Moros , Thanny.

Gallente have plenty of PvP options for gang / fleet and solo they do not require any kind of boost.


Stil Harkonnen
Posted - 2009.12.10 21:05:00 - [32]
 

Quote:
lol this is a joke post right ?
Your having us on ?


no.

Quote:
You want to take the second best PvP race ( after minmatar ) and make it even more powerful by what look likes +50% boost across your entire range.

Ho Ho Ho.


and you're saying amarr is worse than gallente?? are you daft?
Caldari are also great gang ships, I wouldn't consider them to be WORSE than gallente atm

Quote:
If your having problems with tracking then learn to fly your ships.
I'll give you a clue , click approach , web , fire is not what you should be doing.


Ok,. so i try to adjust my distance by manually flying away from my target and not just webbing. oh **** went to far since my optimal is less than 2 km. oh **** i can't fly back in cause the lag on manual flying is SO ****ING BAD that you can't possibly manually fly and keep your ship within 2km but not under 1.8 km where your guns won't track ****.

It's really not as easy as you think, especially with how horrible manual flying is. i find myself quintuple clicking in space instead of double clicking cause most times the lag doesn't pick up just 2 clicks

Quote:
The tracking boosts you request are unwaranted , blaster allready have the best tracking in game or at least equal to auto's iirc.


auto's also have the option of fighting in falloff (which is significantly larger than blasters) and blasters must fight up close. we may have the best paper tracking but it just doesn't seem to work when you're 1 km away from your target.

Quote:
You complained somewhere about pulses having better tracking at there optimal ?
It may be true , but the point is when your at your optimal you have the better tracking
much better than pulse at your optimal why on earth do you need 50% more unless you want the game to do everything for you.


tbh right now the game does everything for pulse. It's also really hard to get into that range before you're dead from pulses as mwd no longer work in scram range, kinda killing the effectiveness of alot of blaster ships.





Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
Posted - 2009.12.10 21:17:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Dav Varan
lol this is a joke post right ?
Your having us on ?

You want to take the second best PvP race ( after minmatar ) and make it even more powerful by what look likes +50% boost across your entire range.

Ho Ho Ho.

If your having problems with tracking then learn to fly your ships.
I'll give you a clue , click approach , web , fire is not what you should be doing.

The tracking boosts you request are unwaranted , blaster allready have the best tracking in game or at least equal to auto's iirc.

You complained somewhere about pulses having better tracking at there optimal ?
It may be true , but the point is when your at your optimal you have the better tracking
much better than pulse at your optimal why on earth do you need 50% more unless you want the game to do everything for you.

Ranged rails are not a gall spec they are a Cal spec.
You want best short range boats boosted and you want ranged option ?
erm no.

If you want ranged rails then fly caldari rail boats.
Personally I wouldnt bother there all crap.

A set of ships Incursus > Mega that get a 100% boost to afterburner speed.
looooool

So every other race has to fit mwd with cap hit , sig hit and large cap usage while gal get to zoom about with ultra effective AB's

If you cant see how that would be massivelly overpowered theres really no hope for your game balancing asperations.

Drones are ****age when properly trained not only againt there class size , but also against smaller targets , blaster may require the application of some tactics but hit hard when used properly.

Some of the best ships in game are Gallente.
Off the top of my head
Incursus , Vexor , Thorax , Domi , Mega , taranis , ishkur , ishtar , myrm, Moros , Thanny.

Gallente have plenty of PvP options for gang / fleet and solo they do not require any kind of boost.




You just failed massively @ understanding tracking mechanics. I'll give you a quick crash course:

When things are closer, it's easier for them to increase transversal, which means that in blaster optimal range, a very high transversal is exremely easy to achieve. Even with caldari BS'.

You see, EvE'O hit and miss mechanics don't understand the fact that things are effectively bigger when they're close. This is what makes blasters useless in todays world.

Secondly, you can't always warp in close. Sometimes you're actually forced to close in. When you're only doing 100 more dps than a ship that has double your range and that other ship can change ammo for range in the blink of an eye and you can't, then you are at a massive disadvantage.

Blasters need more damage to make up for it. Either that, or blaster ships need more speed. Or you could increase the range of blasters, but that would be a bit lame, as it would remove the whole close range/face melting damage flavor of blasters.

Stil Harkonnen
Posted - 2009.12.10 21:31:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Fille Balle


You just failed massively @ understanding tracking mechanics. I'll give you a quick crash course:

When things are closer, it's easier for them to increase transversal, which means that in blaster optimal range, a very high transversal is exremely easy to achieve. Even with caldari BS'.

You see, EvE'O hit and miss mechanics don't understand the fact that things are effectively bigger when they're close. This is what makes blasters useless in todays world.

Secondly, you can't always warp in close. Sometimes you're actually forced to close in. When you're only doing 100 more dps than a ship that has double your range and that other ship can change ammo for range in the blink of an eye and you can't, then you are at a massive disadvantage.

Blasters need more damage to make up for it. Either that, or blaster ships need more speed. Or you could increase the range of blasters, but that would be a bit lame, as it would remove the whole close range/face melting damage flavor of blasters.


this tbh

Brengholl
Posted - 2009.12.10 21:52:00 - [35]
 

one detail i think the OP missed

Helios
all covops have 3 high slots, the helios has 2
it's a simple ship doing cloak, probe, cyno
so unless there is a small cyno drone i'm not aware of the helios is at a big disadvantage compared to other covops

on the topic i agree, the last few patches were all just a little more nerfing galente
of the top of my head for dominion:
tracking computers now have stacking penalty... what race has "too much" medium slots so they can afford to fit 2 of those

soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Tribal Liberation Force

Posted - 2009.12.10 22:49:00 - [36]
 

Supportin' the GallenteWink

Malen Nenokal
The Nightshift
Posted - 2009.12.10 23:59:00 - [37]
 

I like this.

Dav Varan
Posted - 2009.12.11 01:26:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Dav Varan on 11/12/2009 01:26:59
Originally by: Still Harkonnen

Ok,. so i try to adjust my distance by manually flying away from my target and not just webbing. oh **** went to far since my optimal is less than 2 km. oh **** i can't fly back in cause the lag on manual flying is SO ****ING BAD that you can't possibly manually fly and keep your ship within 2km but not under 1.8 km where your guns won't track ****.

It's really not as easy as you think, especially with how horrible manual flying is. i find myself quintuple clicking in space instead of double clicking cause most times the lag doesn't pick up just 2 clicks




you see , you dont understand your own ships.

Flying away will not lower you tracking as much as flying parallel
so why are you trying to fly away in a blaster ( ultra close range ) boat.

Here starteth the blaster PvP leason.

1. use orbit 1km or 500m depending upon ship class
2. web and scram opponent
3. make sure you have velocity and transversal on your overview
4. note opponents velocity when scrammed and webbed
5. set your own velocity to be just a little more than your opponents
6. If you cant do this then your ship setup is fail
7. assuming you can go faster than your opponent then notch up the speed a bit at a time till your nearing your guns max tranversal

If all the above is too much for you then use keep at range as this is a close approximation.

7. For ultimate tracking nullification ( bs and cruiser combat ) ( too difficult for frigs imo ) , look at your opponent ( swing the camera around to face the direction he is flying , double click in that direction , select your speed to match his )

Of course this is for solo or small gang work, for fleets target calling by the fc is more important as anyone primaried by a pack of blaster boats is gonna go down so fast you wont have a chance to worry about any of the above.



Originally by: Still Harkonnen

auto's also have the option of fighting in falloff (which is significantly larger than blasters) and blasters must fight up close. we may have the best paper tracking but it just doesn't seem to work when you're 1 km away from your target.



You need to get to your optimal and optimal tracking speeds , your opponent will try to get to his.
use above methods or invent your own.

Dont ask for 100% afterburners bonues or 50% tracking bonuses so that the game does it all for you.


Originally by: Still Harkonnen

tbh right now the game does everything for pulse. It's also really hard to get into that range before you're dead from pulses as mwd no longer work in scram range, kinda killing the effectiveness of alot of blaster ships.



If your beings scrammed then your also in scram range, if your ships not fast enough try putting less plates and more resists on it next time or fit an ab instead of an mwd and only agress targets that you have scrammed , If you cant get close enough jump your ship out.


100% ab bonus would make the mega so awesome , all other bs would be obsolete.
How can you seriosley even contemplate such a thing.

Ab fitted mega has no fitting issues , all other mwd'd ships would have fitting issues.
Mega would never have cap issues , all other bs would have cap issues.
Mega would always be able to dictate range and tracking , in short mega would allways win.

And then you want 50% better tracking as well , sigh.


Players would have no choice but to train up gal bs and blasters.





Yahrr
The Tuskers
Posted - 2009.12.11 01:48:00 - [39]
 

Yahrr supports Gallente! (and learned to fly Amarr-Caldari and now even Minmatar because of the reasons named in this topic)

There's another thing that is not just about Gallente, but all the drone boats in the game. Still I think this belongs in this topic since Gallente is the mother race to all the drone boats.
The only real benefit dedicated drone boats have is the massive drone bay. However, in case of drone types like ECM/neut/damp the drone "damage" is exactly equal to ALL other ships that can field drones, while at the same time the normal weapon systems are not as advanced as they are on dedicated turret ships.

Dav Varan
Posted - 2009.12.11 02:01:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Fille Balle

You just failed massively @ understanding tracking mechanics. I'll give you a quick crash course:

When things are closer, it's easier for them to increase transversal, which means that in blaster optimal range, a very high transversal is exremely easy to achieve. Even with caldari BS'.



scrammed and webbed bs generally dont fly faster than 70m/s its very easy to null out the tracking if you know what you are doing.

Tracking to your opponent = opponents tracking to you

a) Other gun boat , will have a worse tracking situation than you ( lasers ) or equally good/bad ( other blasters & ac's ) .
b) Missile Boats , may manourver to raise tracking and take less damage without affecting there own dps, but compensatorilly have no way of increaseing damage on target by lower tracking.



Originally by: Fille Balle

You see, EvE'O hit and miss mechanics don't understand the fact that things are effectively bigger when they're close. This is what makes blasters useless in todays world.



Sig radius is designed for damage reduction due to ship class, it has nothing to do with tracking.

Originally by: Fille Balle

Secondly, you can't always warp in close. Sometimes you're actually forced to close in. When you're only doing 100 more dps than a ship that has double your range and that other ship can change ammo for range in the blink of an eye and you can't, then you are at a massive disadvantage.



Yes you are at a disadvantage from range , laser boats are a disadvatage close up.
Thats the game , getting your ship into a position to poon the opponent.


Originally by: Fille Balle

Blasters need more damage to make up for it. Either that, or blaster ships need more speed. Or you could increase the range of blasters, but that would be a bit lame, as it would remove the whole close range/face melting damage flavor of blasters.



Blasters are allready the most powerful weapons in game with the best tracking.


Generally Gallente have second fastest ships in class allready
e.g.

Tempest 120
Mega 105
Apoc 94
Raven 94

before skills or mods.

I think you will have a fight on your hands if you want fastest in class.
Mini have the toughest job for mantaining there optimal position as its neither close up or at range but somewhere in the middle.


Stil Harkonnen
Posted - 2009.12.11 03:49:00 - [41]
 



Quote:
you see , you dont understand your own ships.

Flying away will not lower you tracking as much as flying parallel
so why are you trying to fly away in a blaster ( ultra close range ) boat.

Here starteth the blaster PvP leason.

stuff

If all the above is too much for you then use keep at range as this is a close approximation.

7. For ultimate tracking nullification ( bs and cruiser combat ) ( too difficult for frigs imo ) , look at your opponent ( swing the camera around to face the direction he is flying , double click in that direction , select your speed to match his )

Of course this is for solo or small gang work, for fleets target calling by the fc is more important as anyone primaried by a pack of blaster boats is gonna go down so fast you wont have a chance to worry about any of the above.




I'm flying away at first since usually when approaching an enemy, it's hard to stop approaching your enemy and land in orbit or flying parallel to them perfectly at your optimal range. remember, flying just 1 km too close means you just effed up your chance at tracking correctly.

Yes flying like this comes with practice, but often you just cannot help it as you can't control the other person's ship so them doing something you aren't anticipating can mess up your strategy to get in your optimal and NO closer.




Quote:
You need to get to your optimal and optimal tracking speeds , your opponent will try to get to his.
use above methods or invent your own.

Dont ask for 100% afterburners bonues or 50% tracking bonuses so that the game does it all for you.


I personally didn't ask for that, don't try to push the OP's ideas onto me without being sure I support it. I happen to not support this part of the OP.


Quote:
If your beings scrammed then your also in scram range, if your ships not fast enough try putting less plates and more resists on it next time or fit an ab instead of an mwd and only agress targets that you have scrammed , If you cant get close enough jump your ship out.


wait, fit less buffer so you get ripped apart even faster as you attempt to close range to get into your optimal? As the pulse lasers are doing almost as much dps as you COULD be doing, but at a much larger optimal. You need the buffer to live long enough to get into range. pulses would kill you before you got into range if you fit no buffer.

if i can't get close enough to scram a target with an afterburner fit, what makes you think i can get away?


Quote:
100% ab bonus would make the mega so awesome , all other bs would be obsolete.
How can you seriosley even contemplate such a thing.



whoops we covered this








Stil Harkonnen
Posted - 2009.12.11 03:55:00 - [42]
 




Quote:

Sig radius is designed for damage reduction due to ship class, it has nothing to do with tracking.


So you understand? when a huge ship is right up in your face, it's really really hard to miss, no matter how fast they are going. Tracking doesn't take into account that when close, you effectively have a larger target to shoot at.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.12.11 11:35:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Stil Harkonnen



Quote:

Sig radius is designed for damage reduction due to ship class, it has nothing to do with tracking.


So you understand?



No he doesnt.

And the idea about mannualy flying to minimize transversal in a 200 meters range it must be a joke.The same with the idea than since blaster cant track so lasers cant. He is talking about some virtual 1vs1 engagements.

And i agree AB bonus on gallente ships would be bad.



Dave Meltdown
Viziam
Posted - 2009.12.11 11:49:00 - [44]
 

some idea's are completly nuts like the afterburner bones....wtf do u want people not flying those ships anymore? And the taranis is fine... u just want to nerf it on that way.... The only changes that 1 see that needs to be done is all the missile requiements on gallente ships.... Gallente has a primary weapon hybrids or drones... so why do i need missile skills on a lachistis.. serious... The deimos could use some more cap or a additional bonus for mwd cap saving. Do u actualy know what a diemos does upclose? It vaporise stuffs faster than u can say fast. 3 of those melt a bs in under a minut.. deimos is fine but the cap or powergrid need to be sorted

theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2009.12.11 11:57:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Stil Harkonnen



Quote:

Sig radius is designed for damage reduction due to ship class, it has nothing to do with tracking.


So you understand? when a huge ship is right up in your face, it's really really hard to miss, no matter how fast they are going. Tracking doesn't take into account that when close, you effectively have a larger target to shoot at.



For the ignorant:

The current tracking formula seems to be based on a point model. So whether you are 100km's away or 1m away the guns are trying to hit a tiny aim point. However when you are at point blank even though you may "miss" the aim point you still will have a near certainty of hitting the enemy ship some where.

Medium and up blasters should have trouble hitting a fast moving drone or Inty. But there is pretty much no way they could physically miss anything cruiser sized or larger.

Discrodia
Gallente
Symbiosis International
Moose Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.11 12:39:00 - [46]
 

Totally supported. I find it irritating as hell that my friend's Eagle can out DPS my Deimos by 100points while tanking three times as much for 5x as long.

Dav Varan
Posted - 2009.12.11 15:21:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Stil Harkonnen

Originally by: Dav Varan
You need to get to your optimal and optimal tracking speeds , your opponent will try to get to his.
use above methods or invent your own.

Dont ask for 100% afterburners bonues or 50% tracking bonuses so that the game does it all for you.


I personally didn't ask for that, don't try to push the OP's ideas onto me without being sure I support it. I happen to not support this part of the OP.



Originally by: Stil Harkonnen

Supported all the way. Gallente are pretty lacking tbh. I'm personally training minmatar cause i'm so fed up at how underwhelming gallente is for me right now.



^^ Yes you did ( from your ticked support post ).
Or did you not bother reading before offering your support all the way ?.



Really dude you did support a post that so completelly overpowereds the Mega no other BS would be viable.
I know you wont , but you really need to go think about what the op is saying in his linked post before you withdraw your support.


Originally by: Stil Harkonnen


Quote:

Sig radius is designed for damage reduction due to ship class, it has nothing to do with tracking.


So you understand? when a huge ship is right up in your face, it's really really hard to miss, no matter how fast they are going. Tracking doesn't take into account that when close, you effectively have a larger target to shoot at.



Yes dude , I understand that when your close the silohette of the ship takes up a massive proportion of the view from you ship. like trying to shoot a freight train from 1 meter away.
If game mechanics were "realistic" then you should get wrecking shots everytime you fire.
by the same reasoning as missile explode at zero and the size of the target from the missile perspective is huge taking up nearly half the sky, your also supporting missiles doing full damage , irrelevant of sig rad ?

Eve does not use the apparent size of the target as a parameter in damage calculations , this is the same for all weapon systems , why should blasters be an exception ?.


JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.12.11 16:42:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Dav Varan


If game mechanics were "realistic" then you should get wrecking shots everytime you fire.
by the same reasoning as missile explode at zero and the size of the target from the missile perspective is huge taking up nearly half the sky, your also supporting missiles doing full damage , irrelevant of sig rad ?




lol

go away troll.

Dav Varan
Posted - 2009.12.11 17:18:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Dav Varan


If game mechanics were "realistic" then you should get wrecking shots everytime you fire.
by the same reasoning as missile explode at zero and the size of the target from the missile perspective is huge taking up nearly half the sky, your also supporting missiles doing full damage , irrelevant of sig rad ?




lol

go away troll.


Its not trolling to point out inconsistences in peoples logic.

I am not against apparent target size being a function in damage calculations.
Eve would be more realistic if it were so.

But the same damage calculations run for all guns , so if blasters were getting the benefit of large apparent target size ( cant miss ) all other guns would also get the benefit of large apparent target size ( cant miss ) , even long range weapons would hit for full power at point blank.

It really doenst leave much room for gameplay , which is probably why its not taken into account.



Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2009.12.11 18:18:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Dav Varan
You want to take the second best PvP race ( after minmatar ) and make it even more powerful by what look likes +50% boost across your entire range.


Actually, I would consider Gallente as bottom of the pile right now.

If I recall correctly, the nano nerfs came at about the same time as the blaster tracking nerf. Megas required both to make frigates, AFs, and ceptors run in fear. As I really don't care at all about blasters (mostly because I prefer mid-to-long-range combat), I'm not going to put in the time to dig through the release notes to find exactly when the nerfs hit, but they were both around the same time.

Add to that the drone tracking and sensor damp nerfs that hit about the same time and you can easily see how Gallente went from top dog to bottom dog in the space of a year (had to wait until Dominion for Minmatar to leave the bottom of the pile - because they were way down at the bottom).

Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev
Hyperion needs a slight buff as well.
Why:
It's a active tanking BS that is suppose to have fat tank and fearsome dps with blasters.


The Hyperion is the Gallente version of a Raven. A nice missioning boat. The Hyperion, Raven, and Maelstrom can be used in PVP, but the other two battleship options for each race are better choices for PVP ships. The only race with three good PVP battleships is Amarr, but they get middle dps, alpha, speed, and tank (i.e. none of them have stand out attributes) in exchange.

Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Gallente Wet Dream


From a balance perspective, there's a reason Gallente received several consecutive nerfs in rapid succession - Gallente were over-powered. They do need some back though as they are now sort of underpowered.

Originally by: Tray LiSans
Just thought I'd point out that the only ship that can approach 40km with blasters is the Rokh with null, which will deal ~680 dps at 35km or so with 3 damage mods. Meanwhile the comparative tier 3 Abbadon hits out to 55km with ~730 DPS on scorch and a higher volley with 3 damage mods.


Stop comparing apples and oranges. The reason Amarr often look so good is because people throw together a mixed fleet and try to have everyone fill the same role. This leads to everyone compromising into the middle ground, where Amarr sit.

The complaint about Gallente ships is less "someone else can pawn me" and more "the other guys in my gang can shoot and kill things before I get in range". This is a real complaint in blob-v-one. However, in a blob-v-blob, the blaster boat should be strong.

As it is, when I call targets, I usually primary Gallente as they almost always glass cannon fit their ships to do silly damage at mid-range. They also (more often than not) have a horrible habit of burning directly at long range fleet or are aligning/motionless waiting for a warp in - making them the best targets in an RR fleet (most likely to die from alpha). In short, their faults are 50% stupid pilots 30% good ship in the wrong fleet and 20% need for slight improvement.

Stil Harkonnen
Posted - 2009.12.11 19:55:00 - [51]
 

Quote:
^^ Yes you did ( from your ticked support post ).
Or did you not bother reading before offering your support all the way ?.



Really dude you did support a post that so completelly overpowereds the Mega no other BS would be viable.
I know you wont , but you really need to go think about what the op is saying in his linked post before you withdraw your support.


ok if you're going to be cute by trying to base a large portion of your argument on how mine is wrong because I made a small mistake (logical fallacy which truly has nothing to do with the actual argument. Kinda makes me think you're just attacking me instead of arguing your point) and accidentally said I supported the whole thing, then i can go change that. would that make you happy? what would you say to my argument then? would you have some real feedback? Also, don't shoot down the WHOLE argument just because one little part seems to be overpowered. That can be easily adjusted.


Quote:
Yes dude , I understand that when your close the silohette of the ship takes up a massive proportion of the view from you ship. like trying to shoot a freight train from 1 meter away.
If game mechanics were "realistic" then you should get wrecking shots everytime you fire.
by the same reasoning as missile explode at zero and the size of the target from the missile perspective is huge taking up nearly half the sky, your also supporting missiles doing full damage , irrelevant of sig rad ?

Eve does not use the apparent size of the target as a parameter in damage calculations , this is the same for all weapon systems , why should blasters be an exception ?.



probably because blasters are supposed to work close range, but are at extreme disadvantage since we can't even track or stay in range of our optimal range. SOMETHING needs to be changed.

It is completely feasible that a missiles has an explosion radius greater than a target in my opinion. Now, that is very unlikely, given the size of missiles compared to the size of the ships, but it COULD happen. what's really hard to understand is how a turret can't hit a target right up in your face. in my opinion

ropnes
Posted - 2009.12.11 20:19:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 07/12/2009 23:14:11

See this graph, it shows the required tracking to hit an orbiting object based on the range it orbits.

As you can see, the closer it gets, the tracking does not increase linear, but exponentially. Thus a blaster has 5x less tracking than a pulse laser, currently, dealing LESS DPS at optimal.


It's not an exponential relationship and if you dig up the thread about blaster tracking you'll see that your claims of terrible tracking aren't that well founded and blasters have 3x more falloff then optimal so who says they should hit well at their optimal?

But yeah, blasters need a revision

kyrieee
Bite me inc.
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2009.12.11 20:27:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Fille Balle

You just failed massively @ understanding tracking mechanics. I'll give you a quick crash course:

When things are closer, it's easier for them to increase transversal, which means that in blaster optimal range, a very high transversal is exremely easy to achieve. Even with caldari BS'.


No, you
Transversal speed is the component of the speed vector that's perpendicular to the origin vector. It's independent of |r|

Stil Harkonnen
Posted - 2009.12.11 23:19:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: kyrieee

No, you
Transversal speed is the component of the speed vector that's perpendicular to the origin vector. It's independent of |r|


Ok cute stuff, tracking doesn't take into account transversal, it takes into account radial velocity, which oh! doesn't directly depend on radius, but with a very small radius or distance between objects, is easy to get ridiculously high radial speeds.

"Transversal speed is the component of the speed vector that's perpendicular to the origin vector".......wut

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.12.12 10:26:00 - [55]
 

Hi guys,

I don't really want to discuss the whole thread here, there is a lot of detail and that is why it is in F&I discussion. What I will say is the tracking boost is contingent on removing all tracking bonuses. Therefore on the Megathron for example, 50% boost to base tracking would only be, in real terms, a 9% boost over existing tracking.

Gabriel

Skaverni
Posted - 2009.12.12 11:49:00 - [56]
 

Both gallente and caldari gunboats are crap atm, so the hybrid guns need a boost too not only the ship hulls.

Hybrid guns have all disadvantages as the lasers and projectiles together, but only very limited advantages

disadvantages:
-cap use/dependance
-tracking
-ammo use
-have to reload the clips
-small clip size
-10 sec ammo type change
-fixed dmg types
-huge fitting issues
-low alpha
-low range for blasters
-low dmg for rails

advantages:
-high optimal for highest tier rails (lower tier rails loose this advantage over beams/projectiles or become neglectable)
-high dmg for blasters

Disadvantages greatly outweights the advantages.

xHUN73R
Sniggerdly
Posted - 2009.12.12 19:32:00 - [57]
 

While astarte, hyperion and deimos are in dare need of help, I can't miss the fact that there are a lot of bad ideas in that thread and I really hope they don't get a green light.

Sorry mate.

Nishachara
True Enlightenment
Posted - 2009.12.12 23:44:00 - [58]
 

Supporting the gallente...

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.13 00:22:00 - [59]
 

Bump for gallente

Khalis Sanguar
Posted - 2009.12.13 02:47:00 - [60]
 

Supporting for Gallente, boost the worst race... Cuz they really are Confused


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