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Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.12.08 13:23:00 - [91]
 

Stop whining you troll, your 18 billion ship was killed by a ship costing 10 times as much (with a longer train time too), that seems to be about right...

.....just step back and look at it in perspective, any ship in eve can get instapoped by another that costs 10 times as much...

....yeah it hurts, but its ment too.....







Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.12.08 13:28:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Sokratesz on 08/12/2009 13:28:50
Originally by: NeoTheo

Originally by: Sokratesz
The 'dont fly what you cant lose' crowd are emo fgts that dont fly ms and need to realise that there currently is NO REASON AT ALL to fly a ms.


and the idiots that are flying them know this and are 2 stupid to keep them off line?

Everyone knows CCP did the most ******ed thing ever with the cap changes (titan change aside) , so seriously you know your ship is crap, stop flying it till its fixed.

not really having a dig, just saying;



Of course but its so sad that CCP totally failed to anticipate on this; there is no possible way in which this is justifiable as 'working as intended' and thus the fix needs to be sped up.


Originally by: Brainless Bimbo
Stop whining you troll, your 18 billion ship was killed by a ship costing 10 times as much (with a longer train time too), that seems to be about right...



Originally by: Elena Laskova

If it's carebear whining to be unhappy you lost your mining frigate because you didn't know about can-flipping, it's carebear whining to complain about losing a 20 billion ISK ship because you couldn't understand the patch notes.

I wonder if the MS pilot has enough class to ask the Titan pilot for some (much-needed) tips on how to PvP?



I suggest you check out the guy that laid the final blow in-game.

Dr Fighter
Posted - 2009.12.08 13:29:00 - [93]
 

theres nothing that can save a mom from a DD or two, without being bale to jam the titan or rep the mom (even with 100 triage carriers) insta pop volly to the face shouldnt be possible, capital ships are ment to take a huge battle to loose. else why fly anything other than a BS

Ansala
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.12.08 13:34:00 - [94]
 

So, the one-button Titan AoE DD of a BS fleet was OK because the Titan(s) cost 10x as much as the BS fleet?

Cost disparity between two ships hasn't been a determining factor in EVE in a long time.

Kowaii Rabbit
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.12.08 13:39:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Kowaii Rabbit on 08/12/2009 13:40:50
lol I'm speechless at some of the responses in this thread.

Whether alone ratting in a belt, sitting at the edge of a POS shield, accompanied by a large support fleet, or tanked to it's eyeballs...it was going to die no matter what the experts in here say. Telling the guy to 'not log on', while perhaps good advice, is simply unacceptable.

Even carriers have been porked into oblivion by the new Titan changes. Jumping to a POS is out of the question now when there are neutrals/hostiles in system, and with the stupid 'You can't dock for 21 seconds because its dangerous so close to a cyno field' message, you might as well stay docked with them as well. Hell, even move an inch before the 30 second undock timer and you might insta-pop. Good job CCP.

Alanea Winddancer
Posted - 2009.12.08 13:42:00 - [96]
 

I wonder whether the rebels in Star Wars ever screamed: "OMG, the Death Star laz0r is overpowered! NERF IT!!!"

Rolling Eyes

Oh yeah, right, they didn't - they had more balls.

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.12.08 13:45:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Alanea Winddancer
I wonder whether the rebels in Star Wars ever screamed: "OMG, the Death Star laz0r is overpowered! NERF IT!!!"

Rolling Eyes

Oh yeah, right, they didn't - they had more balls.



Wow, you're stupid.

Alanea Winddancer
Posted - 2009.12.08 13:51:00 - [98]
 

Care to elaborate?

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.12.08 14:01:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Alanea Winddancer
Care to elaborate?


No. You should care to read more before you post.

Plim
Gallente
Everything Financial
Posted - 2009.12.08 14:06:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Alanea Winddancer
Care to elaborate?


No. You should care to read more before you post.


And think more.

Actually such people just shouldn't post.

Aya
Posted - 2009.12.08 14:08:00 - [101]
 

When you post something in General Discussion your going to get replys from iceminers in Rens, so dont be suprised by the responses.

Nice kill there Sok, I was going to buy a Hel and 2 days later they announced they werent changing motherships so I decided to wait.

SemiCharmed
Clans of the Sanctums
Posted - 2009.12.08 14:19:00 - [102]
 

Fail, THIS is how titans are supposed to be!!! the all singing all dancing, omfg run away and lets think of a plan kinda ships. The Alpha and Omega!

If CCP Nerf the titan AGAIN then they may as well just f-ing removed it from the game altogether. When it was the smart bomb effect it was awesome when it first came out, then it got nerfed, and again, and now we have this awesome sexy weapon. - They shouldn't change a thing now _


Nguyen VanPhuoc
Minmatar
Moustache Twirling Space Cads
Posted - 2009.12.08 14:24:00 - [103]
 

Didn't CCP say in the capital changes DevBlog that they were planning to redesign motherships but didn't like what they had planned so pulled the changes from Dominion to re-work them.

So maybe motherships are useless on the capital battlefield right now, then maybe keep them docked until CCP have a chance to balance them?

Woodwraith
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.12.08 14:42:00 - [104]
 

Edited by: Woodwraith on 08/12/2009 15:04:52
Edited by: Woodwraith on 08/12/2009 14:44:45
Originally by: SemiCharmed
Fail, THIS is how titans are supposed to be!!! the all singing all dancing, omfg run away and lets think of a plan kinda ships. The Alpha and Omega!

If CCP Nerf the titan AGAIN then they may as well just f-ing removed it from the game altogether. When it was the smart bomb effect it was awesome when it first came out, then it got nerfed, and again, and now we have this awesome sexy weapon. - They shouldn't change a thing now _




Or, hows about they just give moms the ehp boost they had on sisi so that you can actually put one on the field and not get instawtfbbq'd
If the only role for a mom is orbiting a pos so as to avoid instant death, well guess what, theres something f*****g wrong with the game.

Originally by: Nguyen VanPhuoc
Didn't CCP say in the capital changes DevBlog that they were planning to redesign motherships but didn't like what they had planned so pulled the changes from Dominion to re-work them.

So maybe motherships are useless on the capital battlefield right now, then maybe keep them docked until CCP have a chance to balance them?


They were balanced, then they got un-done.
And honestly, telling someone the best role for their character is to be logged off is crap, dont even go there.

Dr Karsun
Gallente
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
Posted - 2009.12.08 14:48:00 - [105]
 

Too bad the KM got removed...

But well, I think it's generally ok a titan takes out a carrier or dread with one blow...

But a mom? That's just wrong. With the titan weapon change and no mom change it's like trying to implement democracy to iraq... The system is there, but the background totally doesn't fit. I suggest - leavy all moms at POS untill next patch and let iraq have their dictators.

fuze
Gallente
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2009.12.08 14:56:00 - [106]
 

Just ship the CCP dictators to Iraq and bring back the cool guys who actually know what they are doing.

Nguyen VanPhuoc
Minmatar
Moustache Twirling Space Cads
Posted - 2009.12.08 14:58:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Woodwraith
They were balanced, then they got un-done.
And honestly, telling someone the best role for their character is to be logged off is f'ing sh*t, dont even go there.


So you cant fly anything else or do anything else while CCP work on your primary ship? If you're flying a Mothership you can fly a BS while you wait for them to be fixed, in the meantime you could participate in positive discussions about what to do with Motherships instead of whining.

Serpents smile
Posted - 2009.12.08 14:58:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Dr Karsun
Too bad the KM got removed...


Try again. Razz

SemiCharmed
Clans of the Sanctums
Posted - 2009.12.08 15:08:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Woodwraith
Edited by: Woodwraith on 08/12/2009 14:44:45
Or, hows about they just give moms the ehp boost they had on sisi so that you can actually put one on the field and not get instawtfbbq'd
If the only role for a mom is orbiting a pos so as to avoid instant death, well guess what, theres something f*****g wrong with the game.



If that's how you see motherships then your doing it wrong - despite in my eyes motherships are crap anyway :p Give it time though, they are working on the motherships and it wont be long until they have made some changes.

As for the time being, anyone who loses a Mothership, obviously, should never have had one in the first place.


The Wicked1
Posted - 2009.12.08 15:11:00 - [110]
 

Edited by: The Wicked1 on 08/12/2009 15:13:57
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Alanea Winddancer
I wonder whether the rebels in Star Wars ever screamed: "OMG, the Death Star laz0r is overpowered! NERF IT!!!"

Rolling Eyes

Oh yeah, right, they didn't - they had more balls.



Wow, you're stupid.


And you were voted into the CSM? You don't seem to be able to take critisim without stooping down to theyr level. And from the amount of votes you got (744) I get the feeling that you won just because of your alliance-vote.

Edit: And just to avoid having you go blasting away at me concerning the subject matter in this thread I just want to clarify that I have never flown a Mom, Carrier, Titan or any other Capital ship of any kind.

Willy Nerfalot
Posted - 2009.12.08 15:39:00 - [111]
 

Edited by: Willy Nerfalot on 08/12/2009 15:44:53
Originally by: Sokratesz
The 'dont fly what you cant lose' crowd are emo fgts that dont fly ms and need to realise that there currently is NO REASON AT ALL to fly a ms.


Hold on there soldier. First a disclaimer.

*I am not in any way suggesting there is or isnt a fault with capital ship balance of any kind*

That done, ever since i got my first non-noob frigate ive been told the mantra of 'dont fly what you cant afford to lose'. As such, i have never flown anything worth more than 5% of my total wealth. I agree with the message, its sound.

Yet when its repeated back to the hyper rich all of a sudden the messengers are 'emo fgts'????

I dont fly a MS yet coz it would cost more than 5% of my wealth, and as such, i dont fly what i cant afford to lose.

So, in joyous reply to the same people who drilled it at me:

[1] "Dont fly what you cant afford to lose"

And i love this one especially after gallente got nerfed to death:

[2] "Adapt or die"

Advice Mantras are a two way street are they not? Laughing

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.12.08 16:10:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Nguyen VanPhuoc
So you cant fly anything else or do anything else while CCP work on your primary ship?
In this case, no.
Quote:
If you're flying a Mothership you can fly a BS while you wait for them to be fixed,
…and where do you put the mothership in the meantime?

Boink'urr
Minmatar
Wasserette De Tarthorst
Posted - 2009.12.08 16:18:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Alanea Winddancer
I wonder whether the rebels in Star Wars ever screamed: "OMG, the Death Star laz0r is overpowered! NERF IT!!!"

Rolling Eyes

Oh yeah, right, they didn't - they had more balls.



Star wars is a movie you drewling nerd. Never happened. Ever. Razz

Hiroshima Jita
Posted - 2009.12.08 16:50:00 - [114]
 

Damn. Do you guys realize that the op claims not to have been the one who got instagibbed? He says he has a Hel he isn't logging in. The ship destroyed was a Nyx...

Its a ****ing game balance issue. Lets say a titan costs 80bil. Lets say the MS is fit at 20. That price ratio is about the same between a battleship and a battlecruiser. 2 battleships cannot normally instapop a battlecruiser.

Right now MS should be floating in space logged off. They shouldn't log back in until thay get boosted.

Woodwraith
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.12.08 17:08:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
Damn. Do you guys realize that the op claims not to have been the one who got instagibbed? He says he has a Hel he isn't logging in. The ship destroyed was a Nyx...

Its a ****ing game balance issue. Lets say a titan costs 80bil. Lets say the MS is fit at 20. That price ratio is about the same between a battleship and a battlecruiser. 2 battleships cannot normally instapop a battlecruiser.

Right now MS should be floating in space logged off. They shouldn't log back in until thay get boosted.


Worse yet the second titan didn't even make the mail, it was the first dd that took the nyx down.
getting 20 bill head-shotted in the time it takes a titan dd to spool up in nonsense.

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.12.08 17:22:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: The Wicked1

And you were voted into the CSM? You don't seem to be able to take critisim without stooping down to theyr level. And from the amount of votes you got (744) I get the feeling that you won just because of your alliance-vote.

Edit: And just to avoid having you go blasting away at me concerning the subject matter in this thread I just want to clarify that I have never flown a Mom, Carrier, Titan or any other Capital ship of any kind.


Was just waiting for someone to bring this up. I actually made do with very little alliance support, AAA being the only major factor. I did however receive support from many unexpected corners, and my corp only joined TRI during the very last days of the elections. If you'd check some of the other candidates more carefully you will find that they not only had major alliance, but also major blob support, so all in all I am very satisfied by the results.

BUT how is all of that relevant? If people post stupid bull**** I am going to call them out for it. If you are too stupid, too lazy or too ignorant to post anything useful on the subject then don't post at all. And thank you for the disclaimer, I'll leave you alone now Wink


Originally by: Willy Nerfalot

Originally by: Sokratesz
The 'dont fly what you cant lose' crowd are emo fgts that dont fly ms and need to realise that there currently is NO REASON AT ALL to fly a ms.


Hold on there soldier. First a disclaimer.

*I am not in any way suggesting there is or isnt a fault with capital ship balance of any kind*

That done, ever since i got my first non-noob frigate ive been told the mantra of 'dont fly what you cant afford to lose'. As such, i have never flown anything worth more than 5% of my total wealth. I agree with the message, its sound.

Yet when its repeated back to the hyper rich all of a sudden the messengers are 'emo fgts'????


I agree the term wasn't very subtle but I stick by it. You have to understand that the 'don't fly what you can't lose' rule has some caveats, for example if a dread could instapop your BS everytime you came near one, would you keep bringing BS'es? Or if BS could instapop BC, would you still fly BC? (note that the BS or BC in this analogy cannot be insured)

Originally by: Willy Nerfalot

I dont fly a MS yet coz it would cost more than 5% of my wealth, and as such, i dont fly what i cant afford to lose.

So, in joyous reply to the same people who drilled it at me:

[1] "Dont fly what you cant afford to lose"

And i love this one especially after gallente got nerfed to death:

[2] "Adapt or die"

Advice Mantras are a two way street are they not? Laughing



Adapting in this case would mean 'don't play the game' which cannot be what anyone wants.

KhaniKirai
Posted - 2009.12.08 17:27:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: KhaniKirai on 08/12/2009 17:31:25
Edited by: KhaniKirai on 08/12/2009 17:28:46
Edited by: KhaniKirai on 08/12/2009 17:28:05
Edited by: KhaniKirai on 08/12/2009 17:27:47
Well, I find it personally a bit silly.
The silly part is not the titan's damage, but the effectivity of a mothership.

About everything in EVE that people fly, people always make their decision to fly/buy it based on:
  • how usefull is it.

  • how much does it cost.

  • how vulnerable is it.


Basically how efficient is something.
Ship efficiency: use/cost * survivability(is between 0 and 1)

At this moment its very clear however, that a mothership in his current state is:
-too expensive for its use.(compared to a carrier for example)
-too vulnerable for its use/cost

So, clearly, with the new titan damage, the survivability of a mothership went basically almost to zero, which clearly makes it outdated and not usefull for any current combat situation anymore, except maybe a few rare situations.
Obvious CCP never bothered about balancing motherships vs this new big weapon. (would be easily to do, just give them an extra resistance vs this type of weapon)

Before the change a mothership wouldnt be killed by multiple titans DDs, the mothership had a role and was able to survive this stuff, although they still died by dreadnoughts/carriers and BS and other stuff. (yes, even during this time the mothership has a questionable effectivity in use/cost, but it was ok)

Now however the mothership is too vulnerable for his current buildcost and its use and you are plain stupid to risk them in combat, because they just dont give that much use in the current combat tactics, that makes it worthwhile to risk them.

And that last part is just plain stupid and sad.
A mothership to keep it in game, either need an increasement in usability or should survive better against a titan dds.
Yes dreadnoughts carriers should die in 1 hit, plain and simple, a mothership should at least need 3 titan hits to die.
CCP, when do you really learn how this game works, after all this years, you would expect you would understand the basics?

Dr Fighter
Posted - 2009.12.08 17:29:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Alanea Winddancer
I wonder whether the rebels in Star Wars ever screamed: "OMG, the Death Star laz0r is overpowered! NERF IT!!!"

Rolling Eyes

Oh yeah, right, they didn't - they had more balls.



if we could fly a bomber down the exaust vent and pop a torp into the main reactor and escape before it explodes..

this would be quite a different thread indeed.

sort it out ccp, im not a mom pilot so im not directly at risk, but i feel utterly gutted for them as they cant dock and wait it out and if they try to play they will get insta owned. Yeah id be very very hacked off about this.

play for years get freindly with a copr/allience spend billions of skills, support ccps game directly and indirectly - then BAM suddenly live in fear of instaly loosing your eve-lifes worth.

D3F4ULT
Gallente
Pegasus Mining Korp
Posted - 2009.12.08 17:37:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: D3F4ULT on 08/12/2009 17:37:25

Even I, a high-sec miner, can see "broke" written all over this.

LordSwift
Caldari
The Riot Act
Sacra Cupola
Posted - 2009.12.08 18:05:00 - [120]
 

Yeah ok i dont know how to fly these ships but i dont see what your problem is really. Its a Titan!!! it has a Doomsday weapon. If you want to make ships able to survive these attacks then its not very Doomsday is it. Might as well just call the Amarr DD "HyperBeam" or something.
when you are primaried by a titan you should not expect to live. I sure wouldnt but i wouldnt rage about losing my capitol ship. In a capitol fight against titans you will most likely lose ships anyway.
no one answered my question before, Whats the delay on a DD after firing. Can one be killed during that time? If so whats the issue?


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