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Czert ElPrezidente
Caldari
Posted - 2009.12.07 01:04:00 - [1]
 

I allways annoey with stargate jumping - firs, warp to 0, then manualy jump. WHY ? It cant be like when docing to stations, in which you can simply select dock, and ship will automaticaly warp and dock ?

Syberbolt8
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.12.07 01:48:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Syberbolt8 on 07/12/2009 01:49:29
Originally by: Taedrin


Warp-to-0, instas, and you...

There once was a time when there was no warp-to-0. This was a horrible time where people were forced to warp within 15 kilometers of a gate and fly within 2.5km of the gate before jumping and to start the process anew. This was the dark ages of pirates, where pilots were actually vulnerable when traveling. Pilots were unjustly forced to use higher-brain functions by looking at the map and plotting a safe course around potential gate camps. Pilots who lacked such higher-brain functions were left to die miserably to the gate camps.

One day, such a pilot suddenly had a stroke of uncharacteristic genius! In his frequently traveled systems, he could create bookmarks approximately 12-15km from the gate such that when he warped from one gate to the bookmark, he would land directly on top of it! Thus instas, and the great bookmark revolution began. Everyone began creating instas for their favorite systems. It was soon discovered that as the number of gates increased in a system, the number of instas that you need to complete the "set", so to speak, grew exponentially. Soon, an entire market sprang up out of nowhere, based upon the sale of large areas of instas!

This is when the glorious instas showed their dark side. With so many millions upon millions of instas in existence they slowly gave birth to a demon of pure lag. Tales are told of pilots who accidentally opened their people and places window and were forced to wait an eternity as the instas finished loading.

Meanwhile, people continued to use instas, and they became a integral part of EVE. Entire alliances kept sets of bookmarks for the regions of space they occupied. Escrow was filled with advertisements selling thousands upon thousands of bookmarks. Pirates and carebears a like would not be caught anywhere near low sec or 0.0 without a full set of instas.

As the problems continued, TQ slowly grinded to a halt. It was then that CCP decided that something must be done! They asked players for ideas. It was then that 4 mighty factions on the Features and Ideas forum formed. The WTZ faction, the Nuke Instas faction, the Starmaps faction, and the corporate bookmarks faction. Each faction waged bitter forum war against each other, deciding that their solution to the insta problem was correct. In general, the pirates favored the Nuke Instas option, while carebears favored the WTZ option. Those in the middle favored Starmaps or corporate bookmarks. After a long bloody war that left no soul unscathed, CCP decided that instas had become too important to remove. On top of this, Starmaps and corporate bookmarks would require too much code, and/or would not yield enough decrease in lag (though I still of the fervant opinion that Starmaps would've been much cooler, and still to this day disagree with Maya on this point). It was then that Warp To 0km was championed by CCP. A great treaty was signed by all of the forum warriors that Warp To 0km on Autopilot was a pandoras box that if opened, would end all concepts of danger from low sec and 0.0. Thus CCP did not allow Autopilot to utilize WTZ. Thus as CCP introduced WTZ, The Great Bookmark Massacre began, as millions upon millions of instas were mercilessly slaughtered.

And this brings us to today...



The point being CCP didn't want WTZ to start with, so why would they make an APTZ anytime soon?

Also took forever to find the story again, but it reminds me so much of the good old days, that it was worth it :)

Czert ElPrezidente
Caldari
Posted - 2009.12.07 02:20:00 - [3]
 

I dont get it. Jumúping will be manual, so autopilot will not use this. And when low sec/0.0 gatehunters will be forced to find another hunting grounds... I dont think.
Why because maual jumping when warping to 0 will take cca 0,5-1s if you prepared. Imposible to interecpt. But it will become annoyng when you jump every 2 minutes, and have many jump before you.

Syberbolt8
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.12.07 02:56:00 - [4]
 

My bad, same still applies though, CCP doesn't want it to be as easy as it is right now, why would they make it any easier?

Sorry for the misunderstanding though, I thought you meant APWTZ lol.. Seen so many of those threads, you tossed me a curve ball...

Czert ElPrezidente
Caldari
Posted - 2009.12.07 03:21:00 - [5]
 

APTWZ ?

Ozone71
Caldari
Taishi Combine
Posted - 2009.12.07 04:47:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Czert ElPrezidente
APTWZ ?


A typo .. should be APWTZ ... Auto-Pilot Warp To Zero.

Bei XiaoJie
Posted - 2009.12.07 04:54:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Czert ElPrezidente
I allways annoey with stargate jumping - firs, warp to 0, then manualy jump. WHY ? It cant be like when docing to stations, in which you can simply select dock, and ship will automaticaly warp and dock ?


You have a choice. Auto or Manual

In Manual, you just warp to the gate (0km out) and manually Jump.
In Automatic, you Warp to gate, 15km out, Auto Jump and then repeat for the next gate

This is done to prevent heavy bookmarking (refer to the story above) but ensure that Auto Piloting is dangerous. If you could Auto Pilot everywhere and warp to 0km at the same time it would make travel too safe.

On the other hand... I'd support a "1-Jump" feature that aligned you to a gate, warped you to 0km from the gate and Jumped you but did not warp you after that. It would be like a 1 step AP, and the manual part becomes the next gate selection, rather than the jump itself. This would be like docking, where you can arrive in a system, choose dock, and are automatically aligned, warped and docked.

Elegbara
Posted - 2009.12.07 05:46:00 - [8]
 

Warp to gate. While in warp - right click the gate, "set as a first waypoint", activate autopilot.

That's what I'm doing really often.

Czert ElPrezidente
Caldari
Posted - 2009.12.07 10:28:00 - [9]
 

elgebra - I using same way (and If I forget, manualy warp to 0 and then manualy jump), but I find It annoying. I just same automation as we currently have for docking applied to jumping.

Grarr Wrexx
Posted - 2009.12.07 10:54:00 - [10]
 

How about automated isk injections? Automated fleet battles? Sov warfare? Automated mining?

It'll never end at this rate, stop proposing these dumb ideas and PLAY THE GODDAMNED GAME.

Bei XiaoJie
Posted - 2009.12.07 13:43:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Grarr Wrexx
How about automated isk injections? Automated fleet battles? Sov warfare? Automated mining?

It'll never end at this rate, stop proposing these dumb ideas and PLAY THE GODDAMNED GAME.
\

No.. no .. no and no..

Don't be so melodramatic Grarr. What is being requested here is not blasphemy. It as a valid description to make one method of warping consistent with another.

I am not for automated galaxy crossing auto piloting, but a simple... warp to that gate. jump through would be better that the current method of spamming the jump button as soon as you leave warp.

Even put a penalty of a 0.5s or 1s delay before the jump.

I can see it being considered simply to reduce server load.

Nika Dekaia
Posted - 2009.12.07 13:58:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Bei XiaoJie
stuff
Is there anything wrong with the method Elegbara recommended? It's just one klick more and will get you the result you're looking for. I fly like that often enough, too.

Czert ElPrezidente
Caldari
Posted - 2009.12.07 14:12:00 - [13]
 

nika - is nothing bad with elbra metod - but I sometimes forget is to use.

graxx - mayby you are lover of wasing of mouseclicks, I NOT. If you want wastingm then use and love it. Bud dont be mad about legitimate propsals for reducing of mouseclicks.

I dont want auto battles, auto-mining (but this is done manytimes in game via macros, did you know that ?), and many of you idiotic (and sacracstic) ideas. (and yes, I know you didnt mean them serious).

Larinioides cornutus
Posted - 2009.12.07 14:14:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Larinioides cornutus on 07/12/2009 14:14:53
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
Is there anything wrong with the method Elegbara recommended? It's just one klick more and will get you the result you're looking for. I fly like that often enough, too.


Let's take this example: Everytime you open a door you much first touch your left heel. Does the redundant act of touching your left heel make the process of opening the door any more difficult?

The extra click every warp is the same as that heel touching action.

Nika Dekaia
Posted - 2009.12.07 14:19:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Czert ElPrezidente
nika - is nothing bad with elbra metod - but I sometimes forget is to use.
Just beause people tend to forget to do stuff doesn't mean it should be done automated by the game. People tend to forget to activate hardeners, miner, leave drones in space when warping....should all this be automated because some people happen to forget about it? Well...no, it shouldn't.

Czert ElPrezidente
Caldari
Posted - 2009.12.07 14:24:00 - [16]
 

nika - you metod only partialy solves problem - you have automatic jump ad arival BUT you still wasting mouseclic for jumping. In fackt, is is one mouseclic more, tahan direck jumping at arrival.

Larinioides cornutus
Posted - 2009.12.07 14:31:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Nika Dekaia
Originally by: Czert ElPrezidente
nika - is nothing bad with elbra metod - but I sometimes forget is to use.
Just beause people tend to forget to do stuff doesn't mean it should be done automated by the game. People tend to forget to activate hardeners, miner, leave drones in space when warping....should all this be automated because some people happen to forget about it? Well...no, it shouldn't.


And none of them forget to activate guns. Just like how you never forget to jump or dock when you are not on autopilot. It's an implied action. Your examples are absolutely irrelevant. Good example would be: you dont need to automatically open your mouth as you eat.

Nika Dekaia
Posted - 2009.12.07 14:44:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Larinioides cornutus
And none of them forget to activate guns. Just like how you never forget to jump or dock when you are not on autopilot.
Funnily enough, that is exactly what the OP is talking about. Rolling Eyes

My examples are relevant, btw.

Nika Dekaia
Posted - 2009.12.07 14:52:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Czert ElPrezidente
nika - you metod only partialy solves problem - you have automatic jump ad arival BUT you still wasting mouseclic for jumping. In fackt, is is one mouseclic more, tahan direck jumping at arrival.
In fact, I stated myself that it was just one mouseclick more.

If you don't want to do that mousklick, fly on AP afk. No interaction needed.

If you want to travel faster, you will have to do it manually, which will require 2 mousklicks per system.

If you want to do it semi-afk, you can add another mouseclick to a total of 3 and you will jump right to the next system when arriving on the gate and hold there for the next manual wtz.

These are the options. Use them and stop whining that the game needs interaction if you want to get out the most.


Daedalus II
Helios Research
Posted - 2009.12.07 15:13:00 - [20]
 

Lets see it this way then:

We have warp to 0 and dock.
We don't have warp to 0 and jump.

Shouldn't both be similar? if we have one we should have the other, or vice versa. If you absolutely can't live with warp to 0 and jump (why now that should be such a blasphemy?), then there shouldn't be warp to 0 and dock either.

I realize that eve shouldn't be automated, that's just not fun to play. But doing 25 jumps, having to repeat the same 4 moves (select gate, warp to 0, set gate as first waypoint, activate auto pilot) for every jump gets old quick. Reducing that to 2 moves (select gate, warp to 0 and jump) means it's still a choir, but not quite as obnoxious.

For all the pirates that worry about less targets: If the target is so preoccupied he forgets to jump after he land on the gate, he could just as well forget to continue warp after he has jumped through on a warp to 0 and jump mechanic. Same sitting target, just on the other side of the gate (and now he have to get to warp to get away, if he's on the gate all he needs to do is jump to get away).

Czert ElPrezidente
Caldari
Posted - 2009.12.07 15:23:00 - [21]
 

Thanks deadulus, you write it exacly as I thought it.


 

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