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blankseplocked Mac Client Crash Fix Early Next Week
 
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Aurock Stonefist
Shadows Of The Requiem
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2009.12.07 13:13:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Uronksur Suth
Originally by: Verite Rendition
Originally by: Wentau
Fallout,
thank you so much! I have TIGER and ive not been able to even log in and at least set a new training skill (i stupidly thought that 4 days was enough). Is the patch going to apply for Tiger users as well? Please say "yes".

By the way, i would like to voice my support of Alexi for a credit to my account. Ive not been able to log on since last Monday and i wouldnt mind if i had had a skill training the whole time, but otherwise im getting nothing for my money. In my opinion, this is not customer service.

CCP, although you guys have really been responsive to this situation, please give a concession to players for our patience. Neutral

Thank you very much
I know this has already been said before, but I suppose it needs reiterated: CCP doesn't support Tiger. They dropped support for it nearly a year ago. The fact that the Apocrypha-era client worked with it was a fortunate fluke, but at some point Cider was going to move on to take advantage of features in Leopard and beyond. And that's exactly what has happened with Dominion.

Mac OS X is well-known for being an upgrade treadmill, and this is an example of that in action. EVE is one of a number of programs that at this point in time do not under under Tiger. It's time to upgrade your OS to Leopard or Snow Leopard.



Yeah, Verite is correct. If you are still running Tiger, it is waaaaayyyyy past time to upgrade Embarassed


And as for your ridiculous demand for a time credit.... Well, that is what you get when you try and play games on operating systems that they were never intended for. Rolling Eyes


A time credit for someone using an Operation system the game no longer uses I would agree to this statement on... A Time credit for persons who are using the Operating systems that CCP classifies as their game will work on however... There should be some sort of restitution.

Selling a product that in boxes specific with requirements for a mac, means that game works on that Platform fully. There's almost a sense of a false advertising in this matter, when its stated that "Oh it will work on mac's, you just have to have no sound and do yadda yadda, blah blah blah...."

Lemme stick a PS3 emblem on a Wii game and say its compatible cause the CD fits in the Drive lol.

Vixa Kroli
Posted - 2009.12.07 17:10:00 - [32]
 

Okay, it's now "early next week." :)

Any update from CCP on when the patch to resolve the Mac crashes is coming out?

thanks!

Captain Tardbar
State Protectorate
Posted - 2009.12.07 18:07:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Rixx Javix
Yippee!

Meanwhile I have finally had some success. Did a drive clean this morning, deleted prefs, turned audio off and lowered graphics quality and special effects... so far almost 3hrs without a crash.


I didn't bother reinstalling from scratch but had been builidng known good fresh preferences.

But the crashing didn't stop until I disabled audio.

Kuralkion
Amarr
Toy Makers
Honourable Templum of Alcedonia
Posted - 2009.12.07 19:05:00 - [34]
 

On 8th December Dominion 1.0.2 will be deployed. The patch note says:

Mac

* A problem causing the Mac client to become corrupt if the game crashes have been corrected.
* Playing order of the jukebox on the Mac client has been corrected.

Does it mean that the mac client is fixed or that EVE still crashes but you dont need to re-install/trash your preferences?

Solana Dal'Annae
Silverleaf Industries
Posted - 2009.12.07 20:09:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Kuralkion
On 8th December Dominion 1.0.2 will be deployed. The patch note says:

Mac

* A problem causing the Mac client to become corrupt if the game crashes have been corrected.
* Playing order of the jukebox on the Mac client has been corrected.

Does it mean that the mac client is fixed or that EVE still crashes but you dont need to re-install/trash your preferences?

I'm wondering that too. It's a strange way to word it if it really does fix the initial crash as well.

Grimstorm
Amarr
N-FINITY
Cascade Associates
Posted - 2009.12.07 20:17:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Grimstorm on 07/12/2009 20:22:14
I'm sorry... ignore me ;)

Ryan Easte
Caldari
Rura-Penthe
Posted - 2009.12.07 23:23:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Ryan Easte on 07/12/2009 23:25:00
Will this mean we get sound back? I for one think CCP are doing all they can to help at the moment, at least thats what I would like to believe and that we all just need to be patient on this, i know its a pain but lets remember they are still human, lets give them at least 2 hours a night to sleep :p

Thanks CCP for getting the crash sorted

Cephalien
Posted - 2009.12.08 01:12:00 - [38]
 

You know what would really be great? A native client, so we don't have to deal with normal bugs /plus/ whatever issues this crappy wrapper causes.

Apocrypha was bad enough, with the poor framerates and memory leaks, but this has been unplayable, and I find it impossible to believe nobody noticed it before the upgrade was done.

If this is the best CCP can do, just drop the Mac client and be forthright about not really supporting any platforms other than windows.

Angel O'Sphere
Posted - 2009.12.08 01:28:00 - [39]
 

Quote:
I know this has already been said before, but I suppose it needs reiterated: CCP doesn't support Tiger. They dropped support for it nearly a year ago. The fact that the Apocrypha-era client worked with it was a fortunate fluke, but at some point Cider was going to move on to take advantage of features in Leopard and beyond. And that's exactly what has happened with Dominion.


Can someone plx confirm this? The statement sounds like the guy who made it, has not much clue about programming. While I know that eve gives a message box on Tiger saying it is ment to run on 10.5.6 minimum it ran on my 10.4.11 always fine.

Why should the latest eve patch before Dominion run superb on a Mac with an older OS but Dominion crash? That makes no sense at all. What I an understand is that CCP might not want to test on all old OSes so issues coming from Tiger might be resolved last.

Anyway googling for cider problems with other games shows that there is indead an Leopard only build for cider available. If CCPS is using this one, they imho should have announced that in time.

Mac users are not PC users, we don't upgrade our OS for no reason. Now I'm out in the cold with my eve subscription and have to get a new hard drive, make back ups, need a new OS and have to upgrade. If that is really necessary for playing eve thy could have announced this MONTHs ago!!

Angel O'Sphere

Baba Akili
Posted - 2009.12.08 01:46:00 - [40]
 

While trashing the Preference folders allows me back into the game, it has not been a cure all.
I have re-downloaded the app, turned off audio and still had crashes.
I trash the preference folder (still audio off) and I can play for an hour or so, then I crash again.

Quote:
Mac
A problem causing the Mac client to become corrupt if the game crashes have been corrected.
Playing order of the jukebox on the Mac client has been corrected.


I find the wording of the above patch notes rather curious.
"If the game crashes" sounds so random and faultless.

Playing order of jukebox fix relieves me to no end though, especially when we must have audio turned off.

Dr BananaHammock
Posted - 2009.12.08 06:18:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Dr BananaHammock on 08/12/2009 06:20:14
Recommended system configuration for running EVE Online:

* CPU: Intel based 2 GHz or better
* OS: OS X 10.5.6 or later
* Video: ATI HD2600 PRO or NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
* RAM: 2 GB
* HD space: 6.0 GB or more
* Network: Broadband Internet connection

Courtesy of EVE'S WEBSITE. LEARN TO READ.

And Secondly, as a Mac user, with 3 paid for accounts, I haven't been able to do squat other than run a single client in Bootcamp, which I hate doing because I can't use all of my MAC ONLY TOOLS THAT I HAVE BUILT, or the occasional login with the alt using VMWARE so I can flip the skills of my alts. This has been an epic fail of epic proportion on the deployment. I can't say I'm happy about it, but it was also pretty much about the same when ApochraNerf came out. DomiNerf hasn't really been that much of an improvement. And for those 'whining' about not enough testing time on the Mac Client. It's a CIDER issue. SiSi on windows testing went fine, but note we only got a Cider Build for SiSi about a week before deployment. How many of you logged on to help test and file bug reports? I sure didn't. So this is what we get. No, you're not going to be paid to beta test the game, but if you don't contribute to the stability of the client, even a little bit, as a community of Mac users in a game we greatly care about, there is no blame to lay. We are and always will be Second Class Citizens in EVE. The Application is built on Direct X graphics, so no, whine all you want, but there will never, ever be a Mac Native EVE Client. So just stop now.

What can we do? Log in with the Mac Client, and every time it crashes, Submit a PROPER BUG REPORT. Don't come here and whine and **** and moan. Spend that time filing clean reports, with what OS you're using, What machine you're using, your settings data, whatever CCP wants. Because they can't make it better trying to replicate every single half-assed report, or TL;DR rant that goes in here.

So then to CCP Wrangler and Casqade: PLEASE PROVIDE US (with a sticky in the Mac Forums) A COMPLETE LIST OF EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT IN A BUG REPORT. Hell, make a form we can fill out easily, not for the petition system, and honest to god "We want X and X and X and X and the serial number off your toaster" type layout. Something anybody can do, so that we can help you make our suffering less, and improve our EVE'sperience. We love EVE. You love EVE. Now let's work together and quit *****ing about it and DO something about. Idea

Angel O'Sphere
Posted - 2009.12.08 06:23:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Cephalien
You know what would really be great? A native client, so we don't have to deal with normal bugs /plus/ whatever issues this crappy wrapper causes.


Unfortunately that is really unlikely most Mac Games are based on Open GL. Most PC games are based on Direct X (for what ever uncomprehendable reasons).

Porting from Direct X to Open GL is a majour endeavour.

Angel O'Sphere

Angel O'Sphere
Posted - 2009.12.08 06:30:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Dr BananaHammock
Edited by: Dr BananaHammock on 08/12/2009 06:20:14
Recommended system configuration for running EVE Online:

* CPU: Intel based 2 GHz or better
* OS: OS X 10.5.6 or later
* Video: ATI HD2600 PRO or NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
* RAM: 2 GB
* HD space: 6.0 GB or more
* Network: Broadband Internet connection

Courtesy of EVE'S WEBSITE. LEARN TO READ.
Idea

I can read, and probably you can do as well, but the point is "comprehenting" which you obviously lack, note the first line: "Recommended system configuration for running EVE Online." There is no where the word minimum e.g. in regards to memory, nor is there anywhere noted that it wont run on Tiger.

But after I googled about the current cider status I'm pretty disappointed :-/ either keeping Cider working on Macs is really hard work or the company is as clueless as many PC only game vendors. How old is Tiger? 5 Years? And already they don't support it anymore, thats joke.

Anyway, back on topic I hope CCP can at least get it smooth for 1.5.x and probably we Mac users can help in testing on the test server better in future.

What's a "SiSi" btw. ??

Angel O'Sphere

Carribean Queen
Posted - 2009.12.08 09:52:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Angel O'Sphere
Originally by: Dr BananaHammock


What's a "SiSi" btw. ??

Angel O'Sphere


SiSi is the "Singularity" Test Server. Much how we refer to Tranquility as TQ.

I seriously hope this Mac update fixes the crashing as well as the corruption issue. I'm hazarding to guess that it's more Cider related than anything. I want my audio back and the ability to Autopilot without crashing every 5 minutes Sad

Solana Dal'Annae
Silverleaf Industries
Posted - 2009.12.08 11:20:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Solana Dal''Annae on 08/12/2009 11:21:10
Originally by: Angel O'Sphere

I can read, and probably you can do as well, but the point is "comprehenting" which you obviously lack, note the first line: "Recommended system configuration for running EVE Online." There is no where the word minimum e.g. in regards to memory, nor is there anywhere noted that it wont run on Tiger.

But after I googled about the current cider status I'm pretty disappointed :-/ either keeping Cider working on Macs is really hard work or the company is as clueless as many PC only game vendors. How old is Tiger? 5 Years? And already they don't support it anymore, thats joke.


System requirements for EVE
10.5.6, minimum. Been listed for quite some time now, at least dating back to Apocrypha, probably longer. I specifically remember Tiger users running into issues at that point, and CCP repeated that they had stopped supporting Tiger but that they didn't intentionally plan to break it.

Not supporting Tiger means:
a) Tiger compatibility is not part of their testing.
b) Tiger-dated video drivers have horrible bugs in them, and the way Apple let you get new drivers after a few years is to buy a new OS. That is unfortunately the way Apple does things. CCP has decided to stop spending time doing workarounds for them.

Yes, keeping Cider working with buggy drivers that are many years old is, in fact, hard work...

But the good news is that you can sort it out yourself, by getting the new OS which really isn't that expensive.

Ronald Kiyosaki
Posted - 2009.12.08 12:56:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Ronald Kiyosaki on 08/12/2009 12:58:58
So, TQ seems to be patched to 1.0.2. When will I be able to upgrade my client?
The client download is still the old version, and when starting my client, I don't get any auto-update notification...

Edit: Nevermind. The second I posted it, updater popped up.

CCP Cascade

Posted - 2009.12.08 13:19:00 - [47]
 

The fix for this issue has been deployed.

Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
Posted - 2009.12.08 13:27:00 - [48]
 

But not listed as such in the patch notes?

Vic Tenrach
Minmatar
The Wild Bunch
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.12.08 13:43:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Vic Tenrach on 08/12/2009 13:48:06
I just updated my client to 1.0.2, and so far I've had 3 crashes (audio is still disabled). :/

I'll generate a cider log and file a bugreport about it later this evening.

Jachim Gram
Posted - 2009.12.08 14:48:00 - [50]
 

A statement on exactly what has been fixed would be helpful. Is it OK to enable sound again, or will it still crash the client but without corruption this time around?

Not very clear at all...

Trion Roles
Archron Dusyfe Industries
Posted - 2009.12.08 15:33:00 - [51]
 

The Capslock bug has not been fixed.

CCP Cascade

Posted - 2009.12.08 16:04:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Solbright
But not listed as such in the patch notes?



http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp

Mac

* An issue causing the client to crash and corrupt the settings has been resolved.
* Playing order of the jukebox on the Mac client has been corrected.

These are the two fixes that went into this patch. We are still looking into the keyboard related issues.


Originally by: Jachim Gram
Is it OK to enable sound again, or will it still crash the client but without corruption this time around?



Yes you can enable sound again. And no, your client settings will no longer become corrupted.

Carmen Opausia
Posted - 2009.12.08 17:16:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Carmen Opausia on 08/12/2009 17:15:56
Thats cool, thanks for clarifying CCP Casqade

Jachim Gram
Posted - 2009.12.08 18:54:00 - [54]
 

Thanks for clarifying and updating the patch notes to reflect the actual fix. ;)

Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
Posted - 2009.12.08 22:39:00 - [55]
 

Umm, that's not the main problem. The constant crashes that caused that corruption in the first place is the main problem.

That said, I suspect the crashing is also fixed but just not documented.


Gunther Gabel
Caldari
Posted - 2009.12.08 22:50:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Solbright
Umm, that's not the main problem. The constant crashes that caused that corruption in the first place is the main problem.

That said, I suspect the crashing is also fixed but just not documented.




re-read that quoted patch note again:
Quote:

Mac

* An issue causing the client to crash and corrupt the settings has been resolved.
* Playing order of the jukebox on the Mac client has been corrected.



Clearly the "and" in there means that they not only fixed the crashing, but also the corruption...a better way would be to make two sentences....

* An issue causing the client to crash has been resolved.
* An issue causing the client to corrupt the settings has been resolved.

That better??

Ellamar
Posted - 2009.12.08 23:07:00 - [57]
 

Time for some positive feedback!

I really hope for the rest of the mac-users, that the patch was just as successful as it was for me. Played for several hours without a hickup. Command-Tab, no problems anymore. MS Excel running fine in the background, only the desktop gets a bit slow sometimes. I even restored my old preferences to have my market quickbar back.

The only thing I noticed is that the jukebox quits in the middle of a song and starts another one.

Thanks CCP, keep up the good work for the mac-folks out there!

Br Ellamer

Solbright
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
Posted - 2009.12.08 23:21:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Solbright on 08/12/2009 23:21:33
Originally by: Gunther Gabel
Clearly the "and" in there means that they not only fixed the crashing, but also the corruption

Holy crap, I'm sure that wasn't like that on release. It said something like "... crashing on corrupt settings ..."

Quote:
...a better way would be to make two sentences....

* An issue causing the client to crash has been resolved.
* An issue causing the client to corrupt the settings has been resolved.

Way better. :)

I was only looking for a green text updates in the patchnotes. I never went back and carefully reread them. Maybe I had it wrong, I'll never know.


Cephalien
Posted - 2009.12.09 06:30:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Angel O'Sphere
Originally by: Cephalien
You know what would really be great? A native client, so we don't have to deal with normal bugs /plus/ whatever issues this crappy wrapper causes.


Unfortunately that is really unlikely most Mac Games are based on Open GL. Most PC games are based on Direct X (for what ever uncomprehendable reasons).

Porting from Direct X to Open GL is a majour endeavour.

Angel O'Sphere



Not that I'm arguing with the spirit of your comment, but that's not an excuse for the problems. They want to be able to say they support Macs without actually having to write a proper client. Supporting both Mac and Linux would've been a thousand times easier if they'd gone with OpenGL from the start, and relying on Cider is a way to expand the available userbase while maximizing profits, despite the fact that Ciderized games always run terribly.


Meitavhe Rems
Posted - 2009.12.10 02:12:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: CCP Casqade
The fix for this issue has been deployed.


It is NOT fixed.

The day of the 1.0.2 I patched, turned on the audio, jumped through 5 gates and crashed. As soon as I turned off audio, the gate crashes stopped. I don't know if audio causes crashes at other times because I do not dare turn on the sound.

Try again.


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