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blankseplocked is it just me or 750k m3 is f***ing insane for infrastructure hubs?
 
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The Wicked1
Posted - 2009.12.03 21:04:00 - [121]
 

4 days ago the game was to boring since there weren't any thrills, it wasn't real enough and didn't take as much team work as was ideal.

Now its hard, adrenaline pumping action, relatively real and requires some team work (a freighter and a escort doesn't have to be 1000+ players. If you say yes then you're playing the game wrong).

But have it your way.... I'll go and get the Waaambulance

Chi'kote
Posted - 2009.12.03 21:08:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Chi'kote
That said, I do think if CCP's GOAL was to make it EASIER for small alliances to come out to 0.0 and claim space for themselves (which I think they stated), they failed miserably.


I'd say just having to move some large things to 0.0 is a tad bit easier than having to declare war on some of the largest alliances in game in order to have a 0.0 system all to yourself.


I've lived in various areas of 0.0 and passed through plenty of unclaimed, empty sov. You're no more or less likely to have a large alliance tell you "this is our space, claimed or not, so gtfo" pre-dominion than post-dominion. There was never a need for a small group to declare war on a large alliance to try and carve a small chunk of space for themselves. Just took a lot of system research.

What dominion really gives small groups is not ability to claim their own space, but to claim space that is worth something (by upgrading). Before, any good space was claimed and populated by a large alliance, with plenty of worthless unclaimed space out there. Now, IF you can get that iHub out there, you can upgrade any space to be good.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.12.03 21:31:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Chi'kote
Originally by: Rockhead Rumple
Edited by: Rockhead Rumple on 03/12/2009 20:13:58
Originally by: Chi'kote
That said, I do think if CCP's GOAL was to make it EASIER for small alliances to come out to 0.0 and claim space for themselves (which I think they stated), they failed miserably. The average small alliance (idk, under 150 peeps?) doesn't have the isk nor manpower to get the necessary resources out to 0.0 in freighters.


Alt posting: To be honest I could buy a double-digit amount of freighters on my own and I know enough people who would scout for me, if your corp/alliance cant do that with 150 people theres no reason to blame CCP for your ingame incompetence.


Originally by: Chi'kote
I hope I am wrong, but what I see happening is large alliance settling down in smaller official sov areas, a few resourceful small alliances filling in some gaps, and the average small alliance / large corp being paying renters as before dominion.


Youd be politically worthless in ANY game setup, dont bother trying to convince yourself of the opposite.


1) You assume that the rich peeps in an alliance are willing to pay for the alliance property and not come out of corp/alliance wallet. A lot of people aren't going to give up all this isk for something they won't own, especially since a non-ceo can be kicked on a whim, or a corp can be kicked from an alliance on a whim. I too could buy a fleet of freighters myself, and know a lot of others who can. But we're not going to buy a fleet for the alliance to lose.

2) "Youd be politically worthless in ANY game setup, dont bother trying to convince yourself of the opposite." WTF is that? Doesn't even make any sense. If you're going to trash a person for calmly giving an opinion on a thread topic, at least give reasons for your unjustified flame.


If your alliance is mainly composed of people who only really care about their wallets, then it's best you stay out of 0.0

Chi'kote
Posted - 2009.12.03 21:37:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
If your alliance is mainly composed of people who only really care about their wallets, then it's best you stay out of 0.0


I'm not saying personal wallets are all people care about. I'm just saying not to base scenarios on the assumption that people will willingly give millions or billions to their corp / alliance that they probably will never see again. People do give time & isk for the "greater good", but they also like their own toys to play with, which generally aren't given to members by the alliance as a reward for their contributions.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.12.03 21:47:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Chi'kote
Originally by: Malcanis
If your alliance is mainly composed of people who only really care about their wallets, then it's best you stay out of 0.0


I'm not saying personal wallets are all people care about. I'm just saying not to base scenarios on the assumption that people will willingly give millions or billions to their corp / alliance that they probably will never see again. People do give time & isk for the "greater good", but they also like their own toys to play with, which generally aren't given to members by the alliance as a reward for their contributions.


It sounds as if perhaps the corp tax rate has not been sufficient in the past to generate enough isk to purchase the freighters/hubs. Perhaps if that were adjusted individual members would not be asked to make sizable personal dontations.

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.03 21:47:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Chi'kote

That said, I do think if CCP's GOAL was to make it EASIER for small alliances to come out to 0.0 and claim space for themselves (which I think they stated), they failed miserably.


I dont think it was the goal to make it easier. Only to make it worth your while to go to 0.0 if you have the manpower to do it. I'm not sure they managed that either.

Rockhead Rumple
Posted - 2009.12.03 21:50:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Rockhead Rumple on 03/12/2009 21:51:20
Originally by: Chi'kote
Originally by: Malcanis
If your alliance is mainly composed of people who only really care about their wallets, then it's best you stay out of 0.0


I'm not saying personal wallets are all people care about. I'm just saying not to base scenarios on the assumption that people will willingly give millions or billions to their corp / alliance that they probably will never see again. People do give time & isk for the "greater good", but they also like their own toys to play with, which generally aren't given to members by the alliance as a reward for their contributions.


Any corp/alliance leader should be rich enough to ensure that his corp doesnt suffer from poverty, tbh. :S

General Esylium
Posted - 2009.12.03 21:54:00 - [128]
 

out of 5 pages of flaming, and very few useful posts, only 1 suggestion was useful, which is using wormholes, I agree on that, BUT that is totally dependent on chance, there is no guarantee what so ever that you'll find a wh or a chain of WHs that will lead somewhere close to your system.
--------------
for all the trolls and carebears and those who can only play with mega blobs, answer 2 questions:

1- what is easier for a small alliance, moving towers with JFs like before? or moving a freighter to deep 0.0?

2- according to the question above, who got f***ed, the big alliances or the small ones?

and for all those saying go with a scout, talking is sooo easy, but when it comes to real action not a single one of you is going to fly his freighter to 0.0!

Night Epoch
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.12.03 21:58:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Night Epoch on 03/12/2009 21:59:27
Edited by: Night Epoch on 03/12/2009 21:58:41
An IHUB is (if all goes well) a one time install. That should at LEAST require a freighter run.

And yes, if your empire is vast, it requires many freighter runs. Just part of the huge logistical cost associated with large-scale sovereignty. As it should be.

CCP leave the m3 of IHUBs intact.


Besides, it generates great LOLnews like we received last night about the Razor and Solar freighter carnage. 10 & 17 lost in total? Ouch! ugh

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.12.03 21:59:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: General Esylium
out of 5 pages of flaming, and very few useful posts, only 1 suggestion was useful, which is using wormholes, I agree on that, BUT that is totally dependent on chance, there is no guarantee what so ever that you'll find a wh or a chain of WHs that will lead somewhere close to your system.
--------------
for all the trolls and carebears and those who can only play with mega blobs, answer 2 questions:

1- what is easier for a small alliance, moving towers with JFs like before? or moving a freighter to deep 0.0?

2- according to the question above, who got f***ed, the big alliances or the small ones?

and for all those saying go with a scout, talking is sooo easy, but when it comes to real action not a single one of you is going to fly his freighter to 0.0!
So to answer the question asked earlier: you haven't tried, have you?

You still seem to be fixated on this false notion that blobs is the only way that works…

MakesLoveToChribs
Posted - 2009.12.03 21:59:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: General Esylium
out of 5 pages of flaming, and very few useful posts, only 1 suggestion was useful, which is using wormholes, I agree on that, BUT that is totally dependent on chance, there is no guarantee what so ever that you'll find a wh or a chain of WHs that will lead somewhere close to your system.
--------------
for all the trolls and carebears and those who can only play with mega blobs, answer 2 questions:

1- what is easier for a small alliance, moving towers with JFs like before? or moving a freighter to deep 0.0?

2- according to the question above, who got f***ed, the big alliances or the small ones?

and for all those saying go with a scout, talking is sooo easy, but when it comes to real action not a single one of you is going to fly his freighter to 0.0!


Srsly now stfu

Swiftgaze
Elysium Trading Company
Posted - 2009.12.03 22:01:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: General Esylium
out of 5 pages of flaming, and very few useful posts, only 1 suggestion was useful, which is using wormholes, I agree on that, BUT that is totally dependent on chance, there is no guarantee what so ever that you'll find a wh or a chain of WHs that will lead somewhere close to your system.
--------------
for all the trolls and carebears and those who can only play with mega blobs, answer 2 questions:

1- what is easier for a small alliance, moving towers with JFs like before? or moving a freighter to deep 0.0?

2- according to the question above, who got f***ed, the big alliances or the small ones?

and for all those saying go with a scout, talking is sooo easy, but when it comes to real action not a single one of you is going to fly his freighter to 0.0!


Youre looking for something thats easier for a smaller alliance than it is for a bigger alliance, PLUS a way of gameplay that magically benefits morons.

Isurus Paucus
Posted - 2009.12.03 22:04:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: General Esylium

and for all those saying go with a scout, talking is sooo easy, but when it comes to real action not a single one of you is going to fly his freighter to 0.0!
If I had one, I totally would. Just not anytime in the next week or 2. The upgrades can wait till the feeding frenzy is over.

ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.12.03 22:08:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: General Esylium
out of 5 pages of flaming, and very few useful posts, only 1 suggestion was useful, which is using wormholes, I agree on that, BUT that is totally dependent on chance, there is no guarantee what so ever that you'll find a wh or a chain of WHs that will lead somewhere close to your system.
--------------
for all the trolls and carebears and those who can only play with mega blobs, answer 2 questions:

1- what is easier for a small alliance, moving towers with JFs like before? or moving a freighter to deep 0.0?

2- according to the question above, who got f***ed, the big alliances or the small ones?

and for all those saying go with a scout, talking is sooo easy, but when it comes to real action not a single one of you is going to fly his freighter to 0.0!


Yes, been there and done that.

We had to move freightors out to 0.0 before titans and jump freightors were implemented. Doing a few freightor ops a week was not uncommon, and we seemed to survive just fine.

Is it easy? no, is it doable? most definitely.

If your ****ty alliance is unable to ninja a few freigtors in, the you should just failquit now instead of coming to the forums and trying to have ccp make the game easy for you.

Seriously htfu

Gunsnroses
Hmmzor.
Posted - 2009.12.03 22:23:00 - [135]
 

I figured the values on the test server with place holders, i never imagined CCP would be so moronic as to make a freighter required to move these to 0.0

This patch was for "the small alliances". Suspossed to encourage smaller groups moving into 0.0 sov.

This did the opposite. Half the alliances i know who were planning to move are now changing their plans. To expect small alliances to move a freighter potentially 20 jumps or more through 0.0 is insane. Truly shows the devs know NOTHING of how small alliances live.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.12.03 22:28:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Gunsnroses
This did the opposite. Half the alliances i know who were planning to move are now changing their plans. To expect small alliances to move a freighter potentially 20 jumps or more through 0.0 is insane. Truly shows the devs know NOTHING of how small alliances live.
Sounds more like it truly shows that small alliances know NOTHING about nullsec.

Using freighters to move stuff is the least of their problems, and if that's what's holding them back, they haven't really thought things through…

General Esylium
Posted - 2009.12.03 22:29:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Gunsnroses
I figured the values on the test server with place holders, i never imagined CCP would be so moronic as to make a freighter required to move these to 0.0

This patch was for "the small alliances". Suspossed to encourage smaller groups moving into 0.0 sov.

This did the opposite. Half the alliances i know who were planning to move are now changing their plans. To expect small alliances to move a freighter potentially 20 jumps or more through 0.0 is insane. Truly shows the devs know NOTHING of how small alliances live.


this.

those queoting my question are only saying stfu, not much contribution and not answering my question, why don't you have some balls and admit it? dominion f***ed smaller alliances completely, just admit it, no shame in that.

have I tried? no, I was planning to untill I saw that they really made it 750k on tranq, 1 brain cell is enough to say that it's a stupid idea.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.12.03 22:36:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: General Esylium
Originally by: Gunsnroses
I figured the values on the test server with place holders, i never imagined CCP would be so moronic as to make a freighter required to move these to 0.0

This patch was for "the small alliances". Suspossed to encourage smaller groups moving into 0.0 sov.

This did the opposite. Half the alliances i know who were planning to move are now changing their plans. To expect small alliances to move a freighter potentially 20 jumps or more through 0.0 is insane. Truly shows the devs know NOTHING of how small alliances live.


this.

those queoting my question are only saying stfu, not much contribution and not answering my question, why don't you have some balls and admit it? dominion f***ed smaller alliances completely, just admit it, no shame in that.

have I tried? no, I was planning to untill I saw that they really made it 750k on tranq, 1 brain cell is enough to say that it's a stupid idea.


And all this, yet again, despite multiple people in this thread not only telling him that "yes indeed I have moved a freighter though hostile 0.0 in a small group" but also telling him exactly how it is done.

Tunnel vison for the win I suppose.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.12.03 22:36:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: General Esylium
those queoting my question are only saying stfu, not much contribution and not answering my question,
You mean those who give you numerous suggestions on how to make it work and who share their experience that shows that you're wrong about what works and what doesn't? Or do you mean those who suggest that until you actually listen to these answers rather than snubbing them without a thought, you don't really have anything to complain about?
Quote:
why don't you have some balls and admit it? dominion f***ed smaller alliances completely, just admit it, no shame in that.
Sure. Plenty of people have known that for months, but it's not due to this very simple logistical hurdle.
Quote:
have I tried? no, I was planning to untill I saw that they really made it 750k on tranq, 1 brain cell is enough to say that it's a stupid idea.
You didn't plan it very well then, since there was nothing to suggest that it would change. In addition, seeing as how it's worked just fine before — and still does — you need to a bit more specific, and have a lot more on your feet, if you want to claim that it's a stupid idea.

In fact, adding some proper logistical considerations to the game again seems quite brilliant.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.12.03 22:49:00 - [140]
 

Wow, people have become so soft it hurts..

This is a pretty terrible whine thread. If you're unable to grab a 10 mann escort of scouts and ecm ships to get a freighter through a calm entry point and to its destination..well, you'll have a few more pressing issues holding that space anyways.

I've flown freighters through various lowsec pipes, half through fountain, from jita to branch. I've done it with the help of just one scout, a good amount of coffee, and by using any trick in the book to make sure i don't get cought. There is no reason why anyone else shouldn't be able to do it.

Stop blaming ccp or anyone else for your inability to safely move cargo through space. We've moved corp freighters with ten man escorts through all parts of new eden during the last few years.

Shanky McStabber
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.12.03 23:18:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: General Esylium
dominion f***ed smaller alliances completely, just admit it, no shame in that.




Hey moron, 0.0 alliances have been saying that for MONTHS... You should have listened to us instead of accusing us of only looking after our own interests.

General Meridus
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.12.03 23:27:00 - [142]
 

Pretty hard not to laugh at all this.

Before freighters we flew Inty V's through 0.0. Then freighters came along. We used to run freighter ops every week. (They were a bore, but it was part of 0.0.) Then we started cyno runs with carriers, then jump bridges..... and now were back to freighters.

To all of you who say it can't be done- it was done, and often. If you can't figure out how to do it, then you will lose out to those who know how. Maybe you all need to hire some old farts. Wink

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2009.12.03 23:29:00 - [143]
 

What a fantastic array of 0.0 (end game leet pvpers less we forget) carebears grown soft on a diet of jump freighters.

Shame on you all

SKUNK

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2009.12.03 23:45:00 - [144]
 

Well last post from me here

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

That's the user levels on TQ during a 24 hour period.

Here's people DIAF (in game):

Battle Summary for NL6V-7, 19:59 - 20:07

oh dear

Can you see any correlation here?

For the hard of thinking, PEAK hours + Freighters = LOLZ killmail sprees.

Now you have been armed with this info, please forget it and carry on crying into your hankys.


The AEther
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.12.03 23:57:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: General Esylium
Originally by: Gunsnroses
I figured the values on the test server with place holders, i never imagined CCP would be so moronic as to make a freighter required to move these to 0.0

This patch was for "the small alliances". Suspossed to encourage smaller groups moving into 0.0 sov.

This did the opposite. Half the alliances i know who were planning to move are now changing their plans. To expect small alliances to move a freighter potentially 20 jumps or more through 0.0 is insane. Truly shows the devs know NOTHING of how small alliances live.


this.

those queoting my question are only saying stfu, not much contribution and not answering my question, why don't you have some balls and admit it? dominion f***ed smaller alliances completely, just admit it, no shame in that.

The dominion has not ****ed up smaller alliances. It was whatever patch that allowed people to raid and drop caps in space that they do not own on small groups trying to set up some towers there. You know, they don't really need to hold sov over some space to harass you in it and kill your alliance off if they please. They never had to and they don't now either.

Dominion has made it more difficult for larger alliances to hold space, which means that they are right now interested in inviting more friends and pets to help them out. They are interested in inviting and blueing more people to share 0.0 on their borders. If you are smart small alliance you're probably busy trying to make some powerful friends at the moment or striking a rent agreement on favorable terms, not whining on the forums about how you cannot just go out there from empire and take a constellation.

murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2009.12.04 00:42:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: General Esylium
I can see from the responses like "if you can't escort a freighter then you shouldnt be holding space".

This implies that the only people who should be entitled to hold space are giant alliances capable of 100-500 man fleets, and everyone else should eat the dust or kiss their feet to help them escort!

and at the poeple talking safe spots, scouts and all that bull****, just look how many freighters died in these 2 days before you stfu.

there are bottlenecks from high to low sec, and from low sec to 0.0, and through out 0.0, and these are camped 90% of the time.

logging at odd times and waiting long days and weeks untill no one is there, THAT IS NOT WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT NOR HOW A GAME SHOULD BE PLAYED LIKE.

I don't have wake up in the middle of the night to see if I can move a freighter 1-2 jumps, I don't have to wait in a cloaked ship at a gate camp 10 hours a day waiting for them to go, that's a f***ed up waste of time, not a game worth playing.


It's not that you have too few people to do the job. It's just that you're too incompetent to get the job done right. The good news is that this proves that the game is working correctly by keeping all more of the idiots and ******s out of 0.0 and hopefully forcing them to quit the game entirely.

El Mauru
Amarr
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.12.04 00:59:00 - [147]
 

If you can't figure out how to move a silly freighter around you really don't have any business in 0.0.
That coming from someone who's alliance just lost 13 of them Very Happy

Seriously though- get your head out of your royal behind, make some friends (and proper enemies) and just give it a shot instead of whining on the forums. You are not going to get your little private Eco-system for endangered species.

You could always toss a few beers and play make-pretend though- works wonderfully for me.

Comodore John
Gallente
Trixi IFI
Posted - 2009.12.04 01:03:00 - [148]
 

For those complaining of smaller entities not being able to obtain space, please note that IIRC, it costs 84 million ISK every 2 weeks or so to maintain sov.

MHayes
Caldari
Butterfly Effect Corp.
Lorenz Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.04 02:06:00 - [149]
 

It makes perfect sense.

Instead of a massive alliance controlling lots of systems easily they will actually have to work for them, Once you have your forces spread too thinly it will be harder as it should be.

however I am not sure if it will work, it might be harder to control space but it doesn't make it harder to kill enemy space. so it just means lots of neutral space that gets attacked as soon as someone small tries to use it.

Tuscun Nebular
Posted - 2009.12.04 02:18:00 - [150]
 

Hey man, i'm too new to this game to the point where I don't know WTF you ppl are talking about, but if you need me to take my new Ibis and pack it with as much nukes as it can hold, and do a kamikaze on some son of a Bi--H just drop me a line. That's how much I love this game! May the force be with you all! Allahhhhh


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