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Almonesta
Posted - 2010.10.27 15:21:00 - [241]
 

No I was collateral killed by smartbomb

worvand
Posted - 2010.10.27 15:24:00 - [242]
 

I support that insurance is canceled if you are killed by concord. you are doing a criminal act and being reimbursed for it. isn't that kinda weird. it makes me think the insurance company is kinda evil promoting such acts. and looking at it as a real company, this person insures a ship for 10m (the person knows its going to be blow up in a little bit) and they go out and suicide gank someone, the company pays the person 60m to replace their ship and do it again? seems like a major loss in profit for the insurance company. i think a real company would put in a claus like "it the insured item is lost or destroyed in a crimanal act that is corrected by concord then the contract is canceled and insurence for the the item is not paid to owner"

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2010.10.28 03:06:00 - [243]
 

Edited by: Anna Lifera on 28/10/2010 03:08:42
Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj

To be honest, you're right. Leave insurance alone or get rid of it.


yes, i am right 'cause it's insurance for all or no one and i fixed it for u.

Bl3rnsball
Posted - 2010.10.29 07:12:00 - [244]
 

Edited by: Bl3rnsball on 29/10/2010 07:28:30
I support this topic because I want more tears to flow. Carebear tears are easy to harvest and hard to sell due to a...flooded market XD. Ninja tears are almost as easy to harvest and sell to mission runners. Ganker tears are the sweetest of all though and universally purchased by hauling alts everywhere for a considerable profit.

I'd rather support Galvatine's option due to the failings of the current bounty system. Not that I think Galvatine's option doesn't contain flaws (which are pointed out in the relevant thread). I'd rather see larger scale conflicts in high-sec that make it as dangerous for gankers/ninja's to operate with impunity due to player interaction, not concord interaction. This is relevant because every ganker/ninja I know or speak to does it to "Encourage carebears to pvp."

Never have I heard a ganker/ninja say something like "I do this because I have a small ***** irl/my mommy told me I have to move out her basement/I get bullied at school and this makes me feel better/my gf stomps on my ********* while wearing high heels and this just makes me feel better. Honestly, if you do feel this way, do it right. Go down to your local police recruitment center like all the other bullied kids I knew in high school and learn to harass people irl for fun and rl profit.

This will get the pvp that gankers/ninjas profess to desire in high sec going (rather than joining fw or rvb). Exciting things like dodging fleets of bounty hunters who used to be former corp mates with an ax to grind, or a blob of noobs trying to earn enough to buy first battleship. Actually I think that maybe any corp that has over a certain amount of ganks in high sec should have a bounty placed on all members to make it truly pvp worthy, kind of like a wardec. I do tend to think that maybe the gankers/ninjas all <3 a mostly risk free method of producing income (sounds kinda carebearish to me). Sorry sec status is too easy (if excessively boring) to increase for losses to be a significant penalty. If I have my hauler alt for when my sec status gets too low, so should you as many of you have been at it for far too long to not have made one.

Or is the real reason ganking is so widespread is because there are few consequences for doing so and laughter all around for the gankers/ninjas? Keep in mind, I've ganked (and made a profit) after having been ganked (and lost quite a bet of my isk, which tbh wasn't a lot in eve terms) and have no real issue with it either way (it just gives me the giggles when a ninja or ganker needs to feed his starving wife and 75 kids and complains when he/she fails to gank/ninja you, seriously..gonna have to make a recording of a corp m8 QQing after failing a gank). <--Thats why I'm using this name to post. I don't want him to know its coming XD.

Or maybe (let the flood of tears be released...please) sec status loss should be directly related to the isk value of goods dropped by the target. You get that one big score and then have to hide out for a long time (kinda like robbing and bank and heading to Russia XD). Let sec status go to -50ish total perhaps? -10 doesn't seem enough for a profit of 1 bil on a gank. This will repopulate low sec and make teh pew pew all around. I hope you don't mind if I spam "come through my gaaate, and you'll be podded soon" when you try to come to my corps "claimed" territory. See all easy solutions for teh creation of pew pew. FLAME ON!

P.S. For the record, I do it because people hurt my feelings at school XD and it makes me feel better to taste the tears of other people.

Edited out a / where it shouldn't have been

Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2010.11.14 01:07:00 - [245]
 

Not supported. Suicide ganking is as valid a reason as "legitimate" PvP to lose a ship (based on the idea of keeping this as a sandbox), and should not be penalized any more than other ship loss.

Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2010.11.14 13:18:00 - [246]
 

Supported.

It makes absolutely no sense at all that insurance policies should cover getting concorded.

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2010.11.15 08:28:00 - [247]
 

I have a great idea to combat suicide ganks without any of the changes suggested being implemented.

Create a cargo scan jammer. One simple, active high slot module that will keep those looking to snoop out of your business. If a potential ganker scans your ship and gets jammed, it means 1 of 2 things, either you're carrying something valuable and you want it kept secret or you are luring them into a potential gank mistake.

The gankers keep saying that high sec isn't safe and there should be risk for reward, well, here is theirs. If you find a ship with an active jammer, take a shot.

You may get lucky or you may get taken. Fair is fair.

KaraStarbuckThrace
Posted - 2010.11.15 10:32:00 - [248]
 

I'd just get rid of Insurance completely.

Personally I see no need for it. If you lose your ship and you cant afford to replace it then you shouldn't of been flying it in the first place.


Dav Varan
Posted - 2010.11.15 11:04:00 - [249]
 

Originally by: KaraStarbuckThrace
I'd just get rid of Insurance completely.

Personally I see no need for it. If you lose your ship and you cant afford to replace it then you shouldn't of been flying it in the first place.




This.

The massive influx of free isk from insurance makes ships more expensive for everyone.

Give noobs free insurance for there frst 3 months in game to hold there hand a bit.
After that your on your own.

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.

Posted - 2010.11.15 14:59:00 - [250]
 

Not sure why people killed by Concorde ever got insurance payouts.

Its like me crashing my car into a shop front, stealing all the contents of the shop then while I'm doing this my insurance company is putting the cash into my account so I can then go buy a getaway car. How stupid is that?

Syrian Aaski
Interstellar Trade Association
Posted - 2010.11.15 15:42:00 - [251]
 

Originally by: knobber Jobbler
Not sure why people killed by Concorde ever got insurance payouts.

exactly

supported

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2010.11.15 17:46:00 - [252]
 

I like my idea better than insurance nerfs.

Then again I also like sushi.

Zantris
Posted - 2010.11.22 02:16:00 - [253]
 

Edited by: Zantris on 22/11/2010 02:27:48
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane
Not supported. Suicide ganking is as valid a reason as "legitimate" PvP to lose a ship (based on the idea of keeping this as a sandbox), and should not be penalized any more than other ship loss.


Suicide ganking isn't PvP. It's manipulation of game mechanics to kill individuals who have no means of fighting back while avoiding a meaningful risk/reward scenario. It's griefing, pure and simple. And while some griefing is reasonable and acceptable because the victim is required to take action to initiate the response (ie canflipping, salvage stealing)... suicide ganking completely takes any control or prevention away from the victim.

Standing hits should be enormous and there should be no insurance payouts. You want to know what carebear is? It's attacking a defenseless target in mass numbers knowing you can't possibly lose, and knowing that your reward payout is always going to be higher than the cost of an insured ship. It's a joke.


Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.22 02:58:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: Zantris

Suicide ganking isn't PvP. It's manipulation of game mechanics to kill individuals who have no means of fighting back while avoiding a meaningful risk/reward scenario. It's griefing, pure and simple. And while some griefing is reasonable and acceptable because the victim is required to take action to initiate the response (ie canflipping, salvage stealing)... suicide ganking completely takes any control or prevention away from the victim.


1. there's no manipulation or risk-aversion but u could say the same thing with blobs, and they don't automatically forfeit their ship whether they get a kill or not.
2. as for griefing, refer to #1.
3. wrong again--prevention involves not making yourself an appealing target.

Originally by: Zantris
Standing hits should be enormous and there should be no insurance payouts. You want to know what carebear is? It's attacking a defenseless target in mass numbers knowing you can't possibly lose, and knowing that your reward payout is always going to be higher than the cost of an insured ship. It's a joke.




aka blobs so either insurance for all or none. simple as that.

yet another idiot who thinks suicide ganking is somehow different than any other pvp.

Biocross
Posted - 2010.11.22 03:41:00 - [255]
 

Supported. You do not get insurance money irl if you make your car into a car bomb or use it in a terrorist act. IT makes no sense that you would in game.

Sand box or not, the mechanics should have some form of coeherency, and getting insurance payments for ships lost to Concord makes no sense in any frame whatsoever.

In fact the current system is akin to a subsidy to terrorist behavior. Not anything any police or public would condone, and again, entirely nonsensical from a game lore, and playeability sense.

This does not get rid of a legitimate form of play as some supporters of the current nonsense would put it, it merely removes a subsidy that artificially makes gankes much more profitable than they should be.

Zantris
Posted - 2010.11.22 05:13:00 - [256]
 

Edited by: Zantris on 22/11/2010 05:24:38
Edited by: Zantris on 22/11/2010 05:23:04
Edited by: Zantris on 22/11/2010 05:21:38
Edited by: Zantris on 22/11/2010 05:15:02
Originally by: Anna Lifera
Originally by: Zantris

Suicide ganking isn't PvP. It's manipulation of game mechanics to kill individuals who have no means of fighting back while avoiding a meaningful risk/reward scenario. It's griefing, pure and simple. And while some griefing is reasonable and acceptable because the victim is required to take action to initiate the response (ie canflipping, salvage stealing)... suicide ganking completely takes any control or prevention away from the victim.


1. there's no manipulation or risk-aversion but u could say the same thing with blobs, and they don't automatically forfeit their ship whether they get a kill or not.
2. as for griefing, refer to #1.
3. wrong again--prevention involves not making yourself an appealing target.

Originally by: Zantris
Standing hits should be enormous and there should be no insurance payouts. You want to know what carebear is? It's attacking a defenseless target in mass numbers knowing you can't possibly lose, and knowing that your reward payout is always going to be higher than the cost of an insured ship. It's a joke.




aka blobs so either insurance for all or none. simple as that.

yet another idiot who thinks suicide ganking is somehow different than any other pvp.


You are completely and utterly wrong, and being called an idiot by a ****** isn't exactly going to hurt my feelings. If you are blobbed by a target, you are blobbed by that target specifically because you have put yourself in a situation that allows you to be blobbed. Either your in nulsec, your in lowsec, your being wardecced, your in FW, you attacked someone who flipped a can, or stole a wreck, etc etc. In all those cases you are 99.9% of the time going to be fitted and prepared for PvP(unless your an idiot). In 99.9% of those situations, you could have did something to prevent yourself from ending up in that situation in the first place.

This isn't how it works with Suicide ganks. You can try to not make yourself as appealing of a target, but that isn't a solution. It doesn't prevent anything, its merely a deterrent. Most suicide gangers will blow up an empty Tengu just to pad their killboards, and there is nothing that that pilot can do to prevent it(outside of not flying nice ships, which is a ****ing stupid solution). Now that in and of itself, is bull****...but I can deal with it. What I can't deal with is how the actual cost to the suicide gankers is almost nothing. Everyone always wants to laud the whole Risk/Reward scenario... but its totally out of wack in the case of Suicide ganking. It's 95% reward and 5% risk, and its stupid. Meanwhile, flying around with a Deadspace/Faction fit mission ship is 90% risk, and 10% reward... again, its stupid.

What is the point of faction mods & deadspace modules if they only make you a massive target for groups of people risking next to nothing. In my opinion, if you want to go after that +billion isk ship, your ass better be ready to lose big if you fail... and you need to get a standing punishment that severely limits your ability to be a repeat offender. That's how risk/reward is suppose to work.

PvPing is fighting people that have placed themselves in a scenario where they are prepared to PvP by their own actions. It might not be fair, but that person placed themselves in a PvP situation. I've put a lot of hours in nulsec, and I think Suicide ganking is absolutely pathetic. It's the equivalent of a group of men picking a fight with a guy in handcuffs with his back turned, and then patting themselves on the back when they kick his ass... its pathetic.

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2010.11.22 07:00:00 - [257]
 

Look, realistically, if the police had to wreck your car to stop you from doing something illegal, your insurance company would not pay up. This may be a sandbox, but it's still a sandbox based on rules and logic.

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.22 07:14:00 - [258]
 

Edited by: Anna Lifera on 22/11/2010 07:51:07
Originally by: Zantris
Edited by: Zantris on 22/11/2010 05:24:38
Edited by: Zantris on 22/11/2010 05:23:04
Edited by: Zantris on 22/11/2010 05:21:38
Edited by: Zantris on 22/11/2010 05:15:02
You are completely and utterly wrong, and being called an idiot by a ****** isn't exactly going to hurt my feelings. If you are blobbed by a target, you are blobbed by that target specifically because you have put yourself in a situation that allows you to be blobbed. Either your in nulsec, your in lowsec, your being wardecced, your in FW, you attacked someone who flipped a can, or stole a wreck, etc etc. In all those cases you are 99.9% of the time going to be fitted and prepared for PvP(unless your an idiot). In 99.9% of those situations, you could have did something to prevent yourself from ending up in that situation in the first place.


same thing with suicide ganking. this isn't world of warcraft, where lines r drawn. undocking is what sets u up for pvp, not going into low sec, etc. and making yourself an appealing target is what triggers it. idiots like u always make that misconception. but then again, that covert ops frigate should scout with guns instead of a cloak, right?

Originally by: Zantris
This isn't how it works with Suicide ganks. You can try to not make yourself as appealing of a target, but that isn't a solution. It doesn't prevent anything, its merely a deterrent. Most suicide gangers will blow up an empty Tengu just to pad their killboards, and there is nothing that that pilot can do to prevent it(outside of not flying nice ships, which is a ****ing stupid solution). Now that in and of itself, is bull****...but I can deal with it. What I can't deal with is how the actual cost to the suicide gankers is almost nothing. Everyone always wants to laud the whole Risk/Reward scenario... but its totally out of wack in the case of Suicide ganking. It's 95% reward and 5% risk, and its stupid. Meanwhile, flying around with a Deadspace/Faction fit mission ship is 90% risk, and 10% reward... again, its stupid.


correction: 100% risk/chance of ship loss used for suicide gank. but lemme get this straight--since using faction ships/mods make u an appealing target, not using them as a safety measure is stupid? hahaha Laughing seriously, this is why no one respects carebears like u--when it's believed to be impossible, u've achieved a new level of stupidity. u never cease to amaze us.

Originally by: Zantris
What is the point of faction mods & deadspace modules if they only make you a massive target for groups of people risking next to nothing. In my opinion, if you want to go after that +billion isk ship, your ass better be ready to lose big if you fail... and you need to get a standing punishment that severely limits your ability to be a repeat offender. That's how risk/reward is suppose to work.

PvPing is fighting people that have placed themselves in a scenario where they are prepared to PvP by their own actions. It might not be fair, but that person placed themselves in a PvP situation. I've put a lot of hours in nulsec, and I think Suicide ganking is absolutely pathetic. It's the equivalent of a group of men picking a fight with a guy in handcuffs with his back turned, and then patting themselves on the back when they kick his ass... its pathetic.



this is eve, not world of warcraft...again. low sec is not the designated battleground and high sec is not the designated sanctuary. do yourself and get rid of that stupid mentality. it's all non-consensual pvp and what u're describing is all the same, whether it's blob, gate camp, or suicide gank. wake up and get used to it.

Fettered Soul
Posted - 2010.11.22 07:17:00 - [259]
 

Getting insurance for a lost ship due to suicide ganks or self destruct is a nonsense. Insurance company would not pay in real life Laughing

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.22 07:19:00 - [260]
 

Originally by: LordElfa
Look, realistically, if the police had to wreck your car to stop you from doing something illegal, your insurance company would not pay up. This may be a sandbox, but it's still a sandbox based on rules and logic.


police or not, the insurance company "realistically" wouldn't pay up either way if u brought it into a war zone and got it shot up. that pretty much answers the 18351519650 posts using that same flimsy excuse.

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.22 07:32:00 - [261]
 

Very supported. Atm suic ganking is a totally brainless activity that uses loopholes in insurance to make pretty much any hit profitable. The amounts you make from this are disproportionately high, and the risk, nonexistent.

No insurance for Concorded ships, or self destructed seems a good way to at least put some thought into the situation.

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.22 07:46:00 - [262]
 

Edited by: Anna Lifera on 22/11/2010 07:46:12
deleted for double posting.

Mishkaii
Posted - 2010.11.22 08:22:00 - [263]
 

Posting to support putting some thought into suicide ganking.

Korg Leaf
Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors
0ccupational Hazzard
Posted - 2010.11.22 09:19:00 - [264]
 

Originally by: knobber Jobbler
Not sure why people ever got insurance payouts.


FYP. Why would any insurance company insure ships going in to a combat situation(yes, although missions aren't pvp they are still technically combat situations).

Skardord
Posted - 2010.11.25 00:30:00 - [265]
 

Easy solution, just allow concord to crack eggs.
Break the law and we'll will blow up your ship and your pod! Add some tacklers for concord 'gate camps' and watch people cryLaughing

Big Bit
Posted - 2010.11.25 01:20:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: Skardord
Easy solution, just allow concord to crack eggs.
Break the law and we'll will blow up your ship and your pod! Add some tacklers for concord 'gate camps' and watch people cryLaughing
Yes, no one want to hear us. CCP themselves says HTFU, but look how my thread died, and how this one doing well.

1717
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.25 01:48:00 - [267]
 

I don't support this proposal.

DarkAegix
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.25 02:01:00 - [268]
 

Ahaha, all the suicide-ganker tears in this thread are fantastic.
I haven't been suicide-ganked (Or are at any risk to be. It's not like I undock with Estamel's Modified PLEX), and I'm not a suicide-ganker.

A removal of the insurance payoff will be logical, and force suicide gankers to only pewpew at the uber-pros who can afford to lose things, not some poor and new player in a Badger who happened to have sightly valuable loot.

Korg Leaf
Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors
0ccupational Hazzard
Posted - 2010.11.25 09:05:00 - [269]
 

Originally by: Skardord
Easy solution, just allow concord to crack eggs.
Break the law and we'll will blow up your ship and your pod! Add some tacklers for concord 'gate camps' and watch people cryLaughing


I look forward to the whine threads when people who dont fully understand agro mechanics get themselves concorded accidently in the +5's clone

Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:00:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: Zantris

Originally by: Anna Lifera

1. there's no manipulation or risk-aversion but u could say the same thing with blobs, and they don't automatically forfeit their ship whether they get a kill or not.
2. as for griefing, refer to #1.
3. wrong again--prevention involves not making yourself an appealing target.

Originally by: Zantris
Standing hits should be enormous and there should be no insurance payouts. You want to know what carebear is? It's attacking a defenseless target in mass numbers knowing you can't possibly lose, and knowing that your reward payout is always going to be higher than the cost of an insured ship. It's a joke.




aka blobs so either insurance for all or none. simple as that.

yet another idiot who thinks suicide ganking is somehow different than any other pvp.


You are completely and utterly wrong, and being called an idiot by a ****** isn't exactly going to hurt my feelings. If you are blobbed by a target, you are blobbed by that target specifically because you have put yourself in a situation that allows you to be blobbed. Either your in nulsec, your in lowsec, your being wardecced, your in FW, you attacked someone who flipped a can, or stole a wreck, etc etc. In all those cases you are 99.9% of the time going to be fitted and prepared for PvP(unless your an idiot). In 99.9% of those situations, you could have did something to prevent yourself from ending up in that situation in the first place.

This isn't how it works with Suicide ganks. You can try to not make yourself as appealing of a target, but that isn't a solution. It doesn't prevent anything, its merely a deterrent. Most suicide gangers will blow up an empty Tengu just to pad their killboards, and there is nothing that that pilot can do to prevent it(outside of not flying nice ships, which is a ****ing stupid solution). Now that in and of itself, is bull****...but I can deal with it. What I can't deal with is how the actual cost to the suicide gankers is almost nothing. Everyone always wants to laud the whole Risk/Reward scenario... but its totally out of wack in the case of Suicide ganking. It's 95% reward and 5% risk, and its stupid. Meanwhile, flying around with a Deadspace/Faction fit mission ship is 90% risk, and 10% reward... again, its stupid.

What is the point of faction mods & deadspace modules if they only make you a massive target for groups of people risking next to nothing. In my opinion, if you want to go after that +billion isk ship, your ass better be ready to lose big if you fail... and you need to get a standing punishment that severely limits your ability to be a repeat offender. That's how risk/reward is suppose to work.

PvPing is fighting people that have placed themselves in a scenario where they are prepared to PvP by their own actions. It might not be fair, but that person placed themselves in a PvP situation. I've put a lot of hours in nulsec, and I think Suicide ganking is absolutely pathetic. It's the equivalent of a group of men picking a fight with a guy in handcuffs with his back turned, and then patting themselves on the back when they kick his ass... its pathetic.



Sorry but Anna is right and you are wrong as your entire counter argument about putting onself in a dangerous place relies on the incorrect assumption that hisec is supposed to be safe and as CCP have stated over and over, that is just not the case. And as for this remark...

"suicide ganking completely takes any control or prevention away from the victim."

.. utter cobblers... this guy has made a career out of it


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