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Draek
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.18 02:07:00 - [211]
 

Well if ideas and features is the place to put this my apologies for not putting it there sooner.

And no it's not like I didn't expect people to counter my idea or even be against it. I just didn't expect them to be asshats about it.

You're an asset to the community Anna. Thank you for your clear concise remarks.


VIP Ares
Minmatar
BALKAN EXPRESS
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2010.07.20 08:07:00 - [212]
 

Opposite to this, I would remove Concorde from the game. Sorry.

Drek Nekarr
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2010.07.23 14:07:00 - [213]
 

Edited by: Drek Nekarr on 23/07/2010 14:08:49
Concord has it's place - Leave it in there
Insurence payouts for all has its place - Leave it there
Suicide Ganking has it's place - Leave it there.

Make kill rights sellable! That will fix the problem and I am pretty much sure all parties will be happy.

Bounty hunters get to hunt down players in high sec, Miners get their revenge by selling kill rights to get money back and see the offending party killed. Pirates get to pirate.

Imagine Hulkageddon 4 with sellable kill rights. Ohh the carnage and the fun.

And by bounty hunters I mean vigilantes who don't do it for the money, they do it for the justice.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.07.23 14:52:00 - [214]
 

Originally by: Drek Nekarr
Edited by: Drek Nekarr on 23/07/2010 14:08:49
Concord has it's place - Leave it in there
Insurence payouts for all has its place - Leave it there
Suicide Ganking has it's place - Leave it there.

Make kill rights sellable! That will fix the problem and I am pretty much sure all parties will be happy.

Bounty hunters get to hunt down players in high sec, Miners get their revenge by selling kill rights to get money back and see the offending party killed. Pirates get to pirate.

Imagine Hulkageddon 4 with sellable kill rights. Ohh the carnage and the fun.

And by bounty hunters I mean vigilantes who don't do it for the money, they do it for the justice.


This. We need a workable bounty system, and god knows they've been proposed enough times. The current system badly distorts the balance in high sec.

Shade Millith
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.08.05 05:01:00 - [215]
 

The ONLY way I could agree to this, is if CONCORD responce time was reduced to make up for it

No insurance, 50% longer responce time.

Sounds fine

Galvatine
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.08.05 07:16:00 - [216]
 

Edited by: Galvatine on 05/08/2010 07:15:57
Originally by: Drek Nekarr
Edited by: Drek Nekarr on 23/07/2010 14:08:49
Concord has it's place - Leave it in there
Insurence payouts for all has its place - Leave it there
Suicide Ganking has it's place - Leave it there.

Make kill rights sellable! That will fix the problem and I am pretty much sure all parties will be happy.

Bounty hunters get to hunt down players in high sec, Miners get their revenge by selling kill rights to get money back and see the offending party killed. Pirates get to pirate.

Imagine Hulkageddon 4 with sellable kill rights. Ohh the carnage and the fun.

And by bounty hunters I mean vigilantes who don't do it for the money, they do it for the justice.


Here

Goose99
Posted - 2010.08.05 13:28:00 - [217]
 


Shiva Descent
Posted - 2010.08.12 02:27:00 - [218]
 

The problem as i see it is not that suicide ganking is wrong or should be stopped, but that the lack of consequence has led the practice to become so prevalent that everyone ios doing it. The situation as it stands is that the people 'suffering' or not establised carebear corps but new pilots who dont have much to start with and whose loss is sometimes enough to cause them to leave. Eve is not immune to the need for new players and while a sandbox game is and should be relatively unregulated as a rule, I do think that there is a fine line here that we should be aware of. A gang of gankers that make a major hauler bust worth millions should be applauded - the random bored high skill pilot blowing up new pilot retrievers - not so much. I believe that some consequence should be added to prevent a valid tactic becoming a griefing tool. Just what that mechanism is, and how to balance it, I am not sure.

Cleatus Ukken
Posted - 2010.08.12 02:58:00 - [219]
 

Originally by: Shiva Descent
The problem as i see it is not that suicide ganking is wrong or should be stopped, but that the lack of consequence has led the practice to become so prevalent that everyone ios doing it.


There are consequences already in place. We just choose to accept and/or ignore them.

Alexander Third
Gallente
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Posted - 2010.08.14 12:10:00 - [220]
 

Originally by: Herr Wilkus

Insurance after being destroyed after initiating combat is silly, and needs to be removed.

"Hello, Pend insurance speaking."
"Yes, you were missioning and someone stole your loot...hmmhmm...WHAT? then you chased him down and ATTACKED him?"
"AND your ship was destroyed as a result of this??"

Good luck with that claim.

"I'm sorry sir, we don't cover individuals who recklessly endanger their own property. Good day."
(click)



when you said that you just said that by suicide ganking you lose insurance because you do start the combat. also what insurance company in the right mind would give money to a criminal? It makes no sense at all, and it needs to be fixed

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.14 12:56:00 - [221]
 

Originally by: Alexander Third
Originally by: Herr Wilkus

Insurance after being destroyed after initiating combat is silly, and needs to be removed.

"Hello, Pend insurance speaking."
"Yes, you were missioning and someone stole your loot...hmmhmm...WHAT? then you chased him down and ATTACKED him?"
"AND your ship was destroyed as a result of this??"

Good luck with that claim.

"I'm sorry sir, we don't cover individuals who recklessly endanger their own property. Good day."
(click)



when you said that you just said that by suicide ganking you lose insurance because you do start the combat. also what insurance company in the right mind would give money to a criminal? It makes no sense at all, and it needs to be fixed


What insurance company in their right mind would insure any pod pilot? Let alone for a single 30% premium...

Alexander Third
Gallente
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Posted - 2010.08.15 01:56:00 - [222]
 

I have an idea, instead of making one single insurance company make many that charge different amounts and insure different types of attacks. say a pirate insurance would insure you if you suicide gank someone but is more expensive because they're on the run from concord and need more to fight them off. or a mining company that only protects mining barges and exhumers. that sounds like a good comprimise

Terb Regreb
Posted - 2010.09.11 12:15:00 - [223]
 

As a new player who just lost everything they had to a suicide ganker who ganked my FRIGATE in Jita I'm for this. I sort of think the game should make some kind of sense in its universe. I can't imagine a culture or society would last very long if thieves were allowed to hang around freeway exits and carjack everyone that came by with little or no negative consequences. There is no real death in Eve as in real life... I'd like to see how many suicide gankers there would be if when Concorde popped you your character died forever. Hah! I'd laugh a lot at that. But removing insurance payments for bushwhackers seems obvious and I'm for it.
I'd have no issue with this if I were in Lowsec but this is like getting held up in front of a police station with 50 cops standing there--then the guy gets paid for the loss of his ship? Huh? This seems more like an exploit than a valid career. I can't see the point of having every place in the game be a danger spot. It may be "fun" for some types but it has completely removed the fun for me and I'm seriously thinking of quitting after 1 month. There are parts of the game I really like but losing everything you've worked for when you are in a place called "high sec" doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Terb

Mr SmartGuy
Posted - 2010.09.12 18:46:00 - [224]
 

Originally by: Terb Regreb
As a new player who just lost everything they had to a suicide ganker who ganked my FRIGATE in Jita I'm for this.


I hope it wasn't a Kestrel with that certain kind of loot.

G 448
Posted - 2010.09.13 05:41:00 - [225]
 


Forum Speaker
Posted - 2010.09.29 14:10:00 - [226]
 


zenzion zymurgy
Posted - 2010.10.17 23:12:00 - [227]
 

I would say I have to agree. What the gankers are doing is a crime and should not be supported by insurance. I also feel it is wrong for them to ruin the game for those that enjoy high sec missioning. They should not be able to destroy something someone spent months earning. I have no issue if it was a consensual fight but they shouldn’t be able to destroy your hard work in high sec space if you didn’t want to enter a fight.

Korg Leaf
Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors
0ccupational Hazzard
Posted - 2010.10.18 11:47:00 - [228]
 

Not Supported. The idea is stupid. If we are likening in game insurance to real life insurance, no one should have insurance. No insurance company would insure pod pilots ships in rl, even miners technically risk there ships against belt rats (although they would have to be afk or stupid to die to any high sec belt rat).

Vesok Toch
Posted - 2010.10.18 14:55:00 - [229]
 

Concord defines it as a criminal act. Getting destroyed by them and then having them pay you insurance is quite stupid. Remove the insurance payouts for high sec ganks.

Jebediah Lemming
Posted - 2010.10.18 19:48:00 - [230]
 

supported, crime should pay in eve but shouldn't pay that well YARRRR!!


Lemming Alpha1dash1
Lemmings Online
Posted - 2010.10.18 20:08:00 - [231]
 

+1

Samican Nutikor
Posted - 2010.10.23 07:04:00 - [232]
 

Originally by: Herr Wilkus

Couple posts ago you were talking like you were smart or something. Engage your brain, you said, or something like that? Take your own advice, please. Try to see the bigger picture, quit focusing on the individual ganker.

I stated that suicide ganking helps solve the current problem with EVE's economy. (too much mineral supply, not enough demand, causing low mineral values and insurance fraud + inflation)

Removing insurance for suicide gankers would only reduce ganking, when in reality, we need MORE of it. (YES, obviously you could 'still do it' at a loss, but in reality, far less people would opt to.) In absence of a major nulsec war driving up demand - less ganking makes the mineral oversupply problem even worse, which leads to MORE insurance fraud and the ISK inflation that goes with it. Don't you notice all the people self-destructing ships outside manufacturing centers? Doesn't this suggest a fundamental problem to you? That a ship, made from T1 minerals, is worth more dead than alive?

Now, suicide ganking doesn't have to be the only solution. Anything that allows people to attack and slow down rampant resource production (miners and mission runners) would work. Unfortunately, wardecs are broken, and suicide ganking is the ONLY way to achieve that end in hi-sec, currently.

And, like I said - if mineral prices were higher it solves all problems: ships are more expensive, carebears make more ISK, insurance fraud goes away, AND ganking also would become more expensive. Cause and effect.




You sound frustrated mate...fearing that you might lose easy profit?

And to use your mirroring EVE with real life:

Rob a bank and get shot - do you really think that your insurance will even pay one cent of the hospital bill???

hjgjgfgfgsj
Posted - 2010.10.24 17:04:00 - [233]
 

I absolutely support this. Concord shouldn't give suicide-****ers insurance, it doesn't make sense. I'm not anti-suicide-gank. I'm not even pro-carebear. This idea just makes too much sense not to support.

Kuso Tabeteshine
Posted - 2010.10.24 22:11:00 - [234]
 

Signed. CCP wise up and fix some old bugs, which clearly this is.

Lyta Hawkins
Amarr
Patriots and Tyrants
Posted - 2010.10.27 03:00:00 - [235]
 

Recommended Revision:

In light of the CSM minutes and response from CCP, I would like to add a revision to this to accommendate the newer players under the SCC insurance envelope.

-----

New players would be immune to SCC suppression. New players would be defined as players under the 1.6M skillpoint point already defined as the point in which new players stop getting their 100% skill bonus. This is so it can not only provide a window of understanding but also be directly tied to the in game event marker in a Capsuleer's life. Also in the insurance tutorial an additional page will be added to the end to denote SCC Suppression and that its immunity ends at 1.6M skillpoints.

SCC Suppression would be defined as SCC, a division of CONCORD, would not pay players basic insurance when the insurance is due to be paid when the ship loss is due to that of CONCORD police action. This means that should you insure your ship you would get the difference between uninsured and insured amounts.

Reasoning: Even experienced players can find themselves in an instance where attacking a target unauthorized by CONCORD in High Security space happens. While this reasoning can lead to SCC paying some insurance to those who still insist upon ‘Suicide Ganking’, it would remove the profit being balanced out for such actions by insurance alone. So in essence it accommodates the chances of Eve with the legitimate (but unauthorized by CONCORD) attacking of players in high security space and does not punish the act of buying insurance.

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2010.10.27 04:48:00 - [236]
 

Originally by: Samican Nutikor

You sound frustrated mate...fearing that you might lose easy profit?

And to use your mirroring EVE with real life:

Rob a bank and get shot - do you really think that your insurance will even pay one cent of the hospital bill???


1. not as easy as preventing yourself from being a stupid victim.
2. so if your bank gets robbed and u get shot, do u expect the swat team to show up in 20 seconds when they're miles away too? and how did they get to the vault so easily since u didn't take enough precautions? sounds like insurance fraud to me. great comparison to real life from a science fiction game u got there...

Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj

I absolutely support this. Concord shouldn't give suicide-****ers insurance, it doesn't make sense. I'm not anti-suicide-gank. I'm not even pro-carebear. This idea just makes too much sense not to support.


in that case, like ppl said, void insurance entirely--low sec, 0.0, high sec pirate, low sec pirate, everywhere, everyone. no real insurance company would exist to lose more money than they gain, especially if they still have to pay out even if no insurance was purchased. and since u're not partial to either side, there's your sensible solution.

Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
Posted - 2010.10.27 13:33:00 - [237]
 

/supported

hjgjgfgfgsj
Posted - 2010.10.27 13:53:00 - [238]
 

Originally by: Anna Lifera
Originally by: Samican Nutikor

You sound frustrated mate...fearing that you might lose easy profit?

And to use your mirroring EVE with real life:

Rob a bank and get shot - do you really think that your insurance will even pay one cent of the hospital bill???


1. not as easy as preventing yourself from being a stupid victim.
2. so if your bank gets robbed and u get shot, do u expect the swat team to show up in 20 seconds when they're miles away too? and how did they get to the vault so easily since u didn't take enough precautions? sounds like insurance fraud to me. great comparison to real life from a science fiction game u got there...

Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj

I absolutely support this. Concord shouldn't give suicide-****ers insurance, it doesn't make sense. I'm not anti-suicide-gank. I'm not even pro-carebear. This idea just makes too much sense not to support.


in that case, like ppl said, void insurance entirely--low sec, 0.0, high sec pirate, low sec pirate, everywhere, everyone. no real insurance company would exist to lose more money than they gain, especially if they still have to pay out even if no insurance was purchased. and since u're not partial to either side, there's your sensible solution.


To be honest, you're right. Fix insurance or get rid of it.

Almonesta
Posted - 2010.10.27 15:15:00 - [239]
 

/supported

I am new player in Eve ... I was killed last night in Jita in a Coercer (pod also) with no fit and no cargohold. I saw my killer was usual gank profile -10 Security (How the hell he can be in 0.9 system ?? I know now but at first I was very surprise). Then I began to study gank system to understand ... And i was very surprise to see than there is absolutly no penality to gank people in hight sec. They kill each other before concord to loot there ships, they have ship assurance ... I call that an exploit definitly. lol In that case its useless to call that hight sec ... better to put all systems like 0.0 lol I seriously want to stop playing Eve, not only for that loose (1 month work for my basics implants) but because I can imagine later working hard to buy nice stuff to be destroy without reason in hight sec by a random gank. Its more than annoying ... Its only useless. No thank you.

Natasha Hec
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2010.10.27 15:17:00 - [240]
 

Originally by: Almonesta
/supported

I am new player in Eve ... I was killed last night in Jita in a Coercer (pod also) with no fit and no cargohold. I saw my killer was usual gank profile -10 Security (How the hell he can be in 0.9 system ?? I know now but at first I was very surprise). Then I began to study gank system to understand ... And i was very surprise to see than there is absolutly no penality to gank people in hight sec. They kill each other before concord to loot there ships, they have ship assurance ... I call that an exploit definitly. lol In that case its useless to call that hight sec ... better to put all systems like 0.0 lol I seriously want to stop playing Eve, not only for that loose (1 month work for my basics implants) but because I can imagine later working hard to buy nice stuff to be destroy without reason in hight sec by a random gank. Its more than annoying ... Its only useless. No thank you.


Seems to be alot of these troll stories appearing, if this isnt a troll then you didnt get blown up by a normal suicide ganker but an idiot


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