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Mr Management
Posted - 2010.02.12 16:15:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Mr Management on 12/02/2010 16:14:58
Quote:
Since I started playing suicide ganking has been nerfed at least 3 times. If insurance is removed I'll still do it, everyone else will still do it. Even if it does reduce occurances do you know what?

It still won't be enough for the carebears.

They will lobby more and more for changes and reductions.


Not even close ...... currently the system is broken. You can suicide for free and only the target
loses. No skill there What-so-ever.

Remove insurance and make it an art. Maybe add a skill (for example) Insurance Fraud which give a chance for you
to receive an Insurance payout.





FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2010.02.12 16:26:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: FlameGlow on 12/02/2010 16:27:51
guys, guys, I've got solution for insurance problem:
Nerf mining and mission loot -> mineral prices rise -> insurance payout isn't greater then market ship priceTwisted Evil

CLETUS DEADMAN
Posted - 2010.02.12 18:27:00 - [63]
 

Okay, this was dated December 3, 2009:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Suicide_Ganking_Part_3_%28CSM%29

What became of it?

Jonah Pod
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.12 19:40:00 - [64]
 

Passed 7 for 2 against, so I'd expect it to be on the agenda for the Iceland meeting next (?) week.

Atraxerxes
Caldari
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.13 01:12:00 - [65]
 

This is a sensible request that doesn't reward illegal activity.

And I'd like to support it but, I will however admit that accidents do happen.

I've webbed a freighter before with one of my alts, forgetting that he was in a different corp. I only lost a dessy, but essentially mistakes happen and this mistake brought concord. I would have been extremely mad had it been a BS and my only solace would have be that it most likely would be insured.

Hi sec war decs happen and an accidental clicks on a frigs undocking the same time your war target does could mean Concord comes. How frustrating would it be to lose your BS and possible a battle and on top of that not get paid out through insurance? I say frig because even if you limit it to when the non-griefer losses a ship, you rule out the above insta popping of a neutral frig.

It's definitely a fair idea at heart, but the butterfly effect is just to big.

Yes getting ganked sucks, but it's all apart of EVE. The lag on a petition response would only grow if insurance was added into the mix.

AX


Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2010.02.13 04:01:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Atraxerxes
This is a sensible request that doesn't reward illegal activity.

And I'd like to support it but, I will however admit that accidents do happen.

I've webbed a freighter before with one of my alts, forgetting that he was in a different corp. I only lost a dessy, but essentially mistakes happen and this mistake brought concord. I would have been extremely mad had it been a BS and my only solace would have be that it most likely would be insured.

Hi sec war decs happen and an accidental clicks on a frigs undocking the same time your war target does could mean Concord comes. How frustrating would it be to lose your BS and possible a battle and on top of that not get paid out through insurance? I say frig because even if you limit it to when the non-griefer losses a ship, you rule out the above insta popping of a neutral frig.

It's definitely a fair idea at heart, but the butterfly effect is just to big.

Yes getting ganked sucks, but it's all apart of EVE. The lag on a petition response would only grow if insurance was added into the mix.

AX





Thing is... after the first or second incidents... your gonna learn to check before you click for sure.

I honestly have no qualms with that.

Shandas
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.02.13 05:14:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Shandas on 13/02/2010 05:25:17
Edited by: Shandas on 13/02/2010 05:18:26
Edited by: Shandas on 13/02/2010 05:16:11
Originally by: Herr Wilkus
Comparing things to real life is nonsense....but....

In 'Real Life' criminals get away with their crimes about 50% of the time. And thats murder cases in the USA, its probably FAR more often in violent places like Colombia or Nigeria. In terms of lesser crimes, escaping punishment is FAR more common.

Does that mean you want people to be able to escape Concord (and all consequences of their actions) at least half the time? Or more? I'd be in favor of that - it would offer 'risk' to the situation, after all - especially if you want to increase the penalty for getting Concorded.



And you got these "facts" where? I would say 50% is a bit high as law enforcement still solves cases that are considered 'Cold'. Then there are the percent they know who did it and they fled to somewhere the US can't get them or are searching for them.

Actually that's a good idea, maybe when you gank someone your sec status should drop to -10 for 48 hours and make you stay in lowsec or a station as the law is still looking for you. Or maybe if you get caught you should be JAILED for a few months play time depending on the crime and the amount of stuff stolen. I mean lets put a real life twist on it since you want to do that so badly.

Originally by: Herr Wilkus

I love how all the people complaining about ganking having 'no risk' conveniently forget about kill rights.

Any ganker can be aggressed - and have his ship destroyed for 30 days after a successful gank.

Gankers have to spend some time in space ratting up their sec-status, which means they are often vulnerable to attack in a PVE-fit ship.

My own 'kill-rights' page has nearly 40 people on it. Any one of them could use a tracking agent to find me and get revenge. I mean, they dont - I guess because they would rather spend their time whining on these forums.....but the CCP provides all miners with the tools they need to get their revenge.

So, quit complaining Miners - go find and kill those gankers, quit trying to get CCP to do your work for you.




All I hear from you is crying.
You admit you're a ganker, thus we know you know how to gank. You do not go after those low key targets you wait for that juicy fat paycheck to come rolling by and gank it. Instant payday with no loss as you get paid back for you ship plus what you scored in loot.

Most of us know how it works and have seen it done or have done it before ourselves.

The way I see it right now and how insurce is paid out for gankers is like having your insurance company come out to your brand new car and torch it and hand you a check for it and say thanks call us when you get your new car and rack up a few hundred miles.

Most, not all, suicide gankers and whining little kids who can't hack it in low sec or null space so prey on the helpless. A friend of mine got popped by some and got a new ship. He was on his way back when he ran across the fools who popped him he proceeded to space them all and all they did was complain because they were in shuttles and it was unfair...

You sir need to go get a real life and stop crying.

Originally by: FlameGlow
Edited by: FlameGlow on 12/02/2010 16:27:51
guys, guys, I've got solution for insurance problem:
Nerf mining and mission loot -> mineral prices rise -> insurance payout isn't greater then market ship priceTwisted Evil


Wrong T1 ship insurance prices are base loosely around mineral prices. This is why most gankers use T1 and not T2 or T3.

Shivani
Posted - 2010.02.13 09:51:00 - [68]
 

I support this inquiry.

Since i came back to Eve from a 3 year break, i see suicide ganks all over the place. It's just insane whats happening here and actually it is rediculous.

If you rob a bank and police shots and ruins your car, the insurrance company wouldn't pay for it either.

I mean, we are at the point where even without ganking people make money from blowing up their ships. (Insurrance fraud.)

Please adjust proper concord action and please remove insurance payouts for suicide gankers.

Ben Fenix
Caldari
Posted - 2010.02.13 12:35:00 - [69]
 

EVE EPIC FAILURE #327: Suicide Ganking and getting insurance payout for it.

Definitely supported! Suicide Ganking is a crime like any other within EVE. Only difference is, that CCP rewards this type of Crime with insurance payouts what is ridicoulus. Please CCP, do something about it.

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.13 19:52:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: De'Veldrin
Please, stop embarrassing yourselves trying to convince the rest of us that this sec status hit is actually a cost. I've read threads in C&P on how to recover single gank sec status loss in under an hour. You show me how to earn enough to replace a 200 million ISK mining ship in an hour, and we'll call that even - until then, don't feed me that crap about how the sec status loss hurts you. It's an inconvenience, nothing more.


here's an idea--don't fly a 200 mil mining ship at all if u can't handle the risk of that much afk income. use a covetor--it's an inconvenience, nothing more. if it's too much to lose for u, "don't fly what u can't afford to lose". sound familiar? it's only high sec, not complete sec.

Originally by: Shandas

All I hear from you is crying.
You admit you're a ganker, thus we know you know how to gank. You do not go after those low key targets you wait for that juicy fat paycheck to come rolling by and gank it. Instant payday with no loss as you get paid back for you ship plus what you scored in loot.

Most of us know how it works and have seen it done or have done it before ourselves.


don't get caught and u won't lose it. the only ppl who lose their cargo r the ones who r too stupid to adapt.

Originally by: Shandas

The way I see it right now and how insurce is paid out for gankers is like having your insurance company come out to your brand new car and torch it and hand you a check for it and say thanks call us when you get your new car and rack up a few hundred miles.


if that's the way u see it, then u need to get outside sometime 'cause this isn't reality.

Originally by: Shandas

Most, not all, suicide gankers and whining little kids who can't hack it in low sec or null space so prey on the helpless. A friend of mine got popped by some and got a new ship. He was on his way back when he ran across the fools who popped him he proceeded to space them all and all they did was complain because they were in shuttles and it was unfair...

You sir need to go get a real life and stop crying.


1. and what do the 10+ blobs infesting low sec and 0.0 qualify as?
2. gotta love those killrights, huh? why don't u follow your friend's example next time then?
3. refer to previous quote reply.

CLETUS DEADMAN
Posted - 2010.02.13 20:46:00 - [71]
 

If you're going to gank me, then gank me. If you are going to gank sombeody else, then gank somebody else.
But giving them a refund for the ship they used and the loot/cargo is as stupid as smelling a carton of milk to see if it is bad when you areadly know that it is.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2010.02.13 21:02:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Anna Lifera
epic fail argumentation


u mad?

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.13 21:05:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Anna Lifera on 13/02/2010 21:09:25
Originally by: Drake Draconis


u mad?


u gonna elaborate, troll?

Tason Hyena
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.02.13 21:47:00 - [74]
 

Herr's argument fails because we have seen that increased suicide ganking doesn't impact mineral production enough. The reasons are because most of the production is outside hi-sec, or isn't made transportable and gankable enough to disrupt.

Suicide ganking is just preying upon one class of ships that can't actively respond with little risk to the ganker. If you don't want to change insurance, boost the tier 1 industrials and mining barges to have a chance to withstand or escape it before concord arrives.


Anya Synn
Posted - 2010.02.13 21:59:00 - [75]
 

The sec status loss is completely trivial, only few hours of ratting in 0.0 with a stealth bomber can fix that with relatively low risk, as I'm sure every active suicideganker knows.

I wonder what would happen if the security status wasn't affected by npc kills but you would only gain it by killing player pirates? Would make really difficult to pirates re-enter high sec., and force them to turn more on each other I guess. Perhaps it would also force them to use alts in getting back the sec status instead of just going for the npc rats (by having an alt to become criminal, then podding him repeatedly). Would probably cause lots of tears among the sunday pirates and suicide gankers. (Disclaimer: I'm not suggesting this to be implemented, just wondering what would happen.)

Also, the problem with kill rights is that they're broken. They don't extend to the corpmates so you're all alone against (probably) a competent pvp pilot. Can't hire bounty hunter to do the dirty work either. The problem with kill rights relates more to the lack of mechanics that would allow proper bounty hunting, rather than suicide ganking/piratism in general. So in practice kill rights are rarely excecuted.

In the end the problem with insurance isn't just that it's paid to concorded ships, it goes much deeper than that. Fixing it would probably require at least complete insurance overhaul (to include economical risk in suicideganking), viable system for bounty hunters to operate (to give victims some way to get back to their assailants), and some kind of fix to the huge mineral faucet of missionloot (to make staying in high sec less profitable). All of these have been suggested in various forms, and implementing the fixes in some form would probably balance the high sec a lot. I can't see it happening very soon though...

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.13 22:29:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Anna Lifera on 13/02/2010 22:32:37
Edited by: Anna Lifera on 13/02/2010 22:29:34
Originally by: Anya Synn
The sec status loss is completely trivial, only few hours of ratting in 0.0 with a stealth bomber can fix that with relatively low risk, as I'm sure every active suicideganker knows.


which equates to effort on the ganker to do so, in fact, more effort than afk mining or using a low-end hauler instead of training for a better one.

Originally by: Anya Synn

I wonder what would happen if the security status wasn't affected by npc kills but you would only gain it by killing player pirates? Would make really difficult to pirates re-enter high sec., and force them to turn more on each other I guess. Perhaps it would also force them to use alts in getting back the sec status instead of just going for the npc rats (by having an alt to become criminal, then podding him repeatedly). Would probably cause lots of tears among the sunday pirates and suicide gankers. (Disclaimer: I'm not suggesting this to be implemented, just wondering what would happen.)


pirates, corpmates, and their alts in crime would just kill each other in rookie ships repeatedly, which would be a LOT FASTER than ratting. Confused

Originally by: Anya Synn

Also, the problem with kill rights is that they're broken. They don't extend to the corpmates so you're all alone against (probably) a competent pvp pilot. Can't hire bounty hunter to do the dirty work either. The problem with kill rights relates more to the lack of mechanics that would allow proper bounty hunting, rather than suicide ganking/piratism in general. So in practice kill rights are rarely excecuted.


1. if the kill rights were extended that way and the victim was in an npc corp, everyone in it would have kill rights on him, meaning he could be killed roughly 500 times for 1 gank. as amusing as that would be, it would most likely discourage player corps that don't have remotely as many ppl.
2. yes, bounty system sucks.

Shandas
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.02.13 23:54:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Shandas on 13/02/2010 23:57:19
Originally by: Anna Lifera
Originally by: Shandas

All I hear from you is crying.
You admit you're a ganker, thus we know you know how to gank. You do not go after those low key targets you wait for that juicy fat paycheck to come rolling by and gank it. Instant payday with no loss as you get paid back for you ship plus what you scored in loot.

Most of us know how it works and have seen it done or have done it before ourselves.


don't get caught and u won't lose it. the only ppl who lose their cargo r the ones who r too stupid to adapt.




And this has what to do with the price of beans? Who cares if someone loses something to a gank squad. The point is that gank squad shouldn't get paid insurance for doing something criminal.

Originally by: Anna Lifera
Originally by: Shandas

The way I see it right now and how insurce is paid out for gankers is like having your insurance company come out to your brand new car and torch it and hand you a check for it and say thanks call us when you get your new car and rack up a few hundred miles.


if that's the way u see it, then u need to get outside sometime 'cause this isn't reality.




Concord is part of the alliance that pays insurance, got it good! So they;re blowing you up and then paying you for it, same this as I described.

Originally by: Anna Lifera
Originally by: Shandas

Most, not all, suicide gankers and whining little kids who can't hack it in low sec or null space so prey on the helpless. A friend of mine got popped by some and got a new ship. He was on his way back when he ran across the fools who popped him he proceeded to space them all and all they did was complain because they were in shuttles and it was unfair...

You sir need to go get a real life and stop crying.


1. and what do the 10+ blobs infesting low sec and 0.0 qualify as?
2. gotta love those killrights, huh? why don't u follow your friend's example next time then?
3. refer to previous quote reply.


0.0, low-sec and Whole space has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. Never once did I said 'I was tired of getting ganked or anything like that.'

I wasn't the one complaining about reality, get your facts right. You FAIL terribly at every single reply in this post. Go TROLL somewhere else, m'kay?

As another though from seeing the post two spots up before the troll post right above mine. Maybe If you gank in Hi-Sec your sec status should be frozen from improving for a certain amount of time ( a couple weeks or so ) when you get popped by Concord. Kind of like being thrown in jail.

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.14 01:20:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Shandas

And this has what to do with the price of beans? Who cares if someone loses something to a gank squad. The point is that gank squad shouldn't get paid insurance for doing something criminal.

Concord is part of the alliance that pays insurance, got it good! So they;re blowing you up and then paying you for it, same this as I described.


since u want realism in a game (yes u do because u can't stop associating a GAME with real life), try addressing these as well:
1. concord leaving all the belt rats and mission rats alone, who r also technically pirates, harassing any player there. in fact, i don't recall any loitering concord ever shooting down belt rats when they come.
2. isolated low sec systems being low sec, even if they're completely surrounded by high sec systems
3. insurance being paid for ANY ship loss

r u saying u want to change this, as well as every other realism issue in this game as well? how about when one of the 2 pvpers shoot first in low sec loses out on insurance (since it's a criminal act), while the one who did not shoot first gets the safety of insurance to fall back on. then again, u wouldn't care either way, right?

Originally by: Shandas

0.0, low-sec and Whole space has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. Never once did I said 'I was tired of getting ganked or anything like that.'

I wasn't the one complaining about reality, get your facts right. You FAIL terribly at every single reply in this post. Go TROLL somewhere else, m'kay?

As another though from seeing the post two spots up before the troll post right above mine. Maybe If you gank in Hi-Sec your sec status should be frozen from improving for a certain amount of time ( a couple weeks or so ) when you get popped by Concord. Kind of like being thrown in jail.


1. if 0.0, low-sec, and wormhole space were irrelevant, then what do u really mean by "suicide gankers and whining little kids who can't hack it in low sec or null space so prey on the helpless"? what would u consider succeeding in low sec/0.0 then? blobbing the...helpless prey because they r greatly outnumbered? oh that's right--u probably don't even know because u're never there.
2. and yes, u r tired of being ganked--u don't have to say it. 'cause as a result, u retreated back to high sec to hide behind concord. and now that's not enough for u because u don't want to take your own precautions to protect yourself when u finally realize u're not safe in high sec (with emphasis on high sec, not complete sec). u want concord to do all the work for u.
3. even if it's only removing insurance, all they have to do is use cheaper ships and more ppl to compensate and there goes that idea.
4. and yet another real-life reference in a post from someone who claims he's not about realism so if anyone's a fail troll, it's u.

Amberlyn Stardreamer
Posted - 2010.02.14 14:01:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Arcane Azmadi
What gets me is that all the pirates who trumpet about "risk vs reward" being such a big part of EVE and constantly call for carebearing aspects to be nerfed because they're too "rewarding" without being "risky" enough want to be able to effectively suicide gank for free because, uh...

...I'm sure a reason will come up soon...

Admit it, pirates; you just want suicide ganking to be free so you can continue to do it for the lulz rather than for profit.


Exactly.

The objections to the sensible, logical step of removing insurance for ships that are destroyed by Concord ALWAYS boil down to pirates crying over the possibility that they might not make no-risk money by shooting fish in a barrel anymore.


Shandas
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.02.14 14:20:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Shandas on 14/02/2010 14:37:26
Originally by: Anna Lifera
Originally by: Shandas

And this has what to do with the price of beans? Who cares if someone loses something to a gank squad. The point is that gank squad shouldn't get paid insurance for doing something criminal.

Concord is part of the alliance that pays insurance, got it good! So they;re blowing you up and then paying you for it, same this as I described.


since u want realism in a game (yes u do because u can't stop associating a GAME with real life), try addressing these as well:
1. concord leaving all the belt rats and mission rats alone, who r also technically pirates, harassing any player there. in fact, i don't recall any loitering concord ever shooting down belt rats when they come.
2. isolated low sec systems being low sec, even if they're completely surrounded by high sec systems
3. insurance being paid for ANY ship loss

r u saying u want to change this, as well as every other realism issue in this game as well? how about when one of the 2 pvpers shoot first in low sec loses out on insurance (since it's a criminal act), while the one who did not shoot first gets the safety of insurance to fall back on. then again, u wouldn't care either way, right?

Originally by: Shandas

0.0, low-sec and Whole space has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. Never once did I said 'I was tired of getting ganked or anything like that.'

I wasn't the one complaining about reality, get your facts right. You FAIL terribly at every single reply in this post. Go TROLL somewhere else, m'kay?

As another though from seeing the post two spots up before the troll post right above mine. Maybe If you gank in Hi-Sec your sec status should be frozen from improving for a certain amount of time ( a couple weeks or so ) when you get popped by Concord. Kind of like being thrown in jail.


1. if 0.0, low-sec, and wormhole space were irrelevant, then what do u really mean by "suicide gankers and whining little kids who can't hack it in low sec or null space so prey on the helpless"? what would u consider succeeding in low sec/0.0 then? blobbing the...helpless prey because they r greatly outnumbered? oh that's right--u probably don't even know because u're never there.
2. and yes, u r tired of being ganked--u don't have to say it. 'cause as a result, u retreated back to high sec to hide behind concord. and now that's not enough for u because u don't want to take your own precautions to protect yourself when u finally realize u're not safe in high sec (with emphasis on high sec, not complete sec). u want concord to do all the work for u.
3. even if it's only removing insurance, all they have to do is use cheaper ships and more ppl to compensate and there goes that idea.
4. and yet another real-life reference in a post from someone who claims he's not about realism so if anyone's a fail troll, it's u.


I live in null-sec and whole space and I wasn't the one who wanted realism, read the whole thread I responded to Herr Wilkus (which is who you probably are and trying to deflect) and his whole realism thing.

I don't think people who go out and gank people in HI-SEC and lose their ships should get paid for their ships as it's a criminal act in HI-SEC. It doesn't matter if you accidentally shoot a friend and get concorded or what YOU SHOULDN'T GET PAID FOR A CRIMINAL ACT IN HI-SEC.

I have never been ganked. Hard thing to have happen when you don't live in Hi-Sec.

Referenceing something as punishment, as I did when you keep screaming about realism, to being thrown in jail doesn't mean I'm wanting realism. I was simply saying, a freeze on sec status for people ganking (or doing any criminal act in Hi-Sec) would be a nice punishment, kind of like jail. It's the kind of like part that's the clue here.

You responded to my response to Herr Wilkus (you) and his whole realism take. Again go troll somewhere else please.

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.14 17:22:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Shandas

I live in null-sec and whole space and I wasn't the one who wanted realism, read the whole thread I responded to Herr Wilkus (which is who you probably are and trying to deflect) and his whole realism thing.

I don't think people who go out and gank people in HI-SEC and lose their ships should get paid for their ships as it's a criminal act in HI-SEC. It doesn't matter if you accidentally shoot a friend and get concorded or what YOU SHOULDN'T GET PAID FOR A CRIMINAL ACT IN HI-SEC.


I have never been ganked. Hard thing to have happen when you don't live in Hi-Sec.

Referenceing something as punishment, as I did when you keep screaming about realism, to being thrown in jail doesn't mean I'm wanting realism. I was simply saying, a freeze on sec status for people ganking (or doing any criminal act in Hi-Sec) would be a nice punishment, kind of like jail. It's the kind of like part that's the clue here.

You responded to my response to Herr Wilkus (you) and his whole realism take. Again go troll somewhere else please.


1. u claim to live in 0.0 and wormhole space, yet u're pushing for a buff to high sec with the intention to deter suicide ganking.
2. and what u're saying is it's harder to be ganked in 0.0 and wormhole space than it is in high sec?
3. or is it that since u don't live in high sec, u think u know everything there is about it?
4. but since u claim u've never been ganked, u wouldn't need this change in the first place...is that right?
5. and since u say u don't care for realism at all, why should someone not be paid for doing something criminal just for the sake of it other than u wanting to deter a game mechanic that u claim has nothing to do with u?
6. another nerf to sec being "kind of like" jail is still kind of like realism because u're alluding to realism--it doesn't matter what u sugarcoat it with, especially if u're gonna dismiss someone's realism, saying that realism doesn't matter, and still make another reference to it yourself.
7. add this all up and as a result:
a. u're lying u about living in 0.0 and wormhole space
b. the fact is, u live in high sec with all the proposals u made to make it safer for u so u don't have to spare the effort for a little precaution.
c. when someone's lying out their own ass, demonstrates hypocrisy, and constantly accuses someone else of being a troll, it just shows that they have nothing else to back themselves up with.

Shandas
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.02.14 19:33:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Shandas on 14/02/2010 19:49:18
Edited by: Shandas on 14/02/2010 19:44:26
Edited by: Shandas on 14/02/2010 19:37:20
Originally by: Anna Lifera

1. u claim to live in 0.0 and wormhole space, yet u're pushing for a buff to high sec with the intention to deter suicide ganking.


It's 'you' not 'u'.

Just because I don't live in Hi-Sec doesn't mean I have never lived there or that I don't travel through there at some point.

Originally by: Anna Lifera

2. and what u're saying is it's harder to be ganked in 0.0 and wormhole space than it is in high sec?



Yes I am, you don't have 100 loosers sitting in saftey around a gate all day waiting to gank some guy carrying a nice load a stuff. Most Null-Sec and such have escorts and they actually can defend each other while not in Hi-Sec. So in Null-Sec/Whole/Lo-Sec space you bring friends and they can actually do something other than watch you explode. You see someone camping a gate out there and you drop your own fleet on them, can't do that in Hi-Sec.

Originally by: Anna Lifera

3. or is it that since u don't live in high sec, u think u know everything there is about it?



Everyone starts in Hi-Sec at some point we all had to learn, most people constantly travel to it or through it at some point. No, I never said I know everything about it, but I have seen enough when I used to mission run.

Originally by: Anna Lifera

4. but since u claim u've never been ganked, u wouldn't need this change in the first place...is that right?



Again, just because it has never happened to me doesn't mean I don't have friends it has happened to or that I don't have an opinion on it. Or are you saying people aren't allowed to have an opinion on it and this is why you're attacking me?

Originally by: Anna Lifera

5. and since u say u don't care for realism at all, why should someone not be paid for doing something criminal just for the sake of it other than u wanting to deter a game mechanic that u claim has nothing to do with u?



Because, it's a retarted mechanic plain and simple and if you can't see that that is your problem not mine. Just because it doesn't affect me, doesn't mean at some point it won't. It doesn't mean i can't have an opinion as I'm part of this thing called EvE.

Originally by: Anna Lifera

6. another nerf to sec being "kind of like" jail is still kind of like realism because u're alluding to realism--it doesn't matter what u sugarcoat it with, especially if u're gonna dismiss someone's realism, saying that realism doesn't matter, and still make another reference to it yourself.



I made the reference based on a reference by another person and for no other reason. I never said realism doesn't matter, stop putting words in my mouth. Using a reference to something real world doesn't mean I want realism it's just a reference, nothing more, stop reading into it.

Oh my maybe they should remove outlaws all together because I mean it's realistic. We have outlaws in the real world, maybe they should remove bounty hunting too while they're at it. Roses, missiles, bullets, lights, stars, planets, list goes on.

Originally by: Anna Lifera

7. add this all up and as a result:
a. u're lying u about living in 0.0 and wormhole space
b. the fact is, u live in high sec with all the proposals u made to make it safer for u so u don't have to spare the effort for a little precaution.
c. when someone's lying out their own ass, demonstrates hypocrisy, and constantly accuses someone else of being a troll, it just shows that they have nothing else to back themselves up with.


Again, think what you want. According to you I'm not allowed to have an opinion, and as such I get attacked and called a liar while you have no proof of it.

Do you have proof I'm lying?

I have proof I live in Whole space and Null-Sec.

That is why I call Troll, because you keep attacking me and making accusations or try to put words in my mouth.
I'm finished have said what I needed.

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.14 21:57:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Shandas
It's 'you' not 'u'.


so u still had the mental capacity to understand what "u" means? ok then.

Originally by: Shandas

Yes I am, you don't have 100 loosers sitting in saftey around a gate all day waiting to gank some guy carrying a nice load a stuff. Most Null-Sec and such have escorts and they actually can defend each other while not in Hi-Sec. So in Null-Sec/Whole/Lo-Sec space you bring friends and they can actually do something other than watch you explode. You see someone camping a gate out there and you drop your own fleet on them, can't do that in Hi-Sec.


Rolling Eyes and u think i'm the troll here... because i am so bored atm, i'll feed your trolling. autopilot through high sec in a shuttle. then autopilot through low sec and 0.0 and see the difference. and did u ever consider instead of relying on everyone else to protect u, u could...protect yourself? u know, actually think for yourself instead of letting everyone else do it for u?

Originally by: Shandas
Everyone starts in Hi-Sec at some point we all had to learn, most people constantly travel to it or through it at some point. No, I never said I know everything about it, but I have seen enough when I used to mission run.


so plz describe exactly what u saw for once instead of just pushing for eve to support your friend's stupidity.

Originally by: Shandas

Again, just because it has never happened to me doesn't mean I don't have friends it has happened to or that I don't have an opinion on it. Or are you saying people aren't allowed to have an opinion on it and this is why you're attacking me?


no--what i'm saying is u're not gonna know the whole truth unless u've been there yourself. did u ever think that maybe he was just being lazy or careless and he just wouldn't admit it?

Originally by: Shandas

Because, it's a retarted mechanic plain and simple and if you can't see that that is your problem not mine.


whether or not u somehow think it is, it still doesn't compare to the fact that your friends didn't take any precautions when hauling, which is why it happened to them in the first place. this is just an excuse to cover for your friends' inability to think and adapt.

Originally by: Shandas

I made the reference based on a reference by another person and for no other reason. I never said realism doesn't matter, stop putting words in my mouth. Using a reference to something real world doesn't mean I want realism it's just a reference, nothing more, stop reading into it.

Oh my maybe they should remove outlaws all together because I mean it's realistic. We have outlaws in the real world, maybe they should remove bounty hunting too while they're at it. Roses, missiles, bullets, lights, stars, planets, list goes on.


yes it does mean u want realism because by referring to it, u suggest u want the mechanic to become "more like" the reference. only u just want it to a degree that suits only u and your friends, who just won't learn from their mistakes.

Originally by: Shandas
Again, think what you want. According to you I'm not allowed to have an opinion, and as such I get attacked and called a liar while you have no proof of it.

Do you have proof I'm lying?

I have proof I live in Whole space and Null-Sec.

That is why I call Troll, because you keep attacking me and making accusations or try to put words in my mouth.


u're allowed to have an opinion. however, u're also expected to support it well. and that does not include u and your friend's incompetence in adapting to the mechanics because u still never once answered my question, "did u ever try actually taking some precautions?" all u've done is complain about how ppl capitalize on their stupidity, laziness, and inability to adapt. the reason i repeat this over and over again is that's what this all boils down to. and until u do answer that question, it's pretty safe to assume they never did and never will.

CLETUS DEADMAN
Posted - 2010.02.15 12:45:00 - [84]
 

So does the CSM present this to the Eve Devs this week?
How long does it normally take to get a response back?

I am asking simply to try and understand the process.

Thanks....

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.02.15 13:52:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Anna Lifera
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Please, stop embarrassing yourselves trying to convince the rest of us that this sec status hit is actually a cost. I've read threads in C&P on how to recover single gank sec status loss in under an hour. You show me how to earn enough to replace a 200 million ISK mining ship in an hour, and we'll call that even - until then, don't feed me that crap about how the sec status loss hurts you. It's an inconvenience, nothing more.


here's an idea--don't fly a 200 mil mining ship at all if u can't handle the risk of that much afk income. use a covetor--it's an inconvenience, nothing more. if it's too much to lose for u, "don't fly what u can't afford to lose". sound familiar? it's only high sec, not complete sec.




Here's an idea: before you accuse people of AFK anything, why don't you get your facts straight.

When I mine, it's usually with three accounts on three screens - two mining, one hauling. My two miners fill up my hauler's cargo hold every cycle, which means that between docking, undocking, and travel time I have about 30 seconds of 'spare' time when I don't have to pay attention to the screen. So bite my ass.

Second, it is not the fact that I can't afford to lose the Hulk that bothers me. I have two of them, plus a Mack, and a half a dozen covetors scattered around. It is the disproportionate amount of effort involved in recovering that irritates me. Gankers cry about the loss of sec status as if it were something they actually cared about (protip - if they cared, they wouldn't be ganking) and use that to justify their essentially free ships. My ass - as I stated before, some helpful fellow demonstrated how to recover the sec status loss from ganking a hulk in about an hour. That's not a penalty - that's an inconvenience.

Why don't you get over yourself?

Shandas
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.02.15 14:13:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Shandas on 15/02/2010 14:22:48
Edited by: Shandas on 15/02/2010 14:20:47
Edited by: Shandas on 15/02/2010 14:18:44
Originally by: Anna Lifera

You're allowed to have an opinion. However, You're also expected to support it well. That does not include you and your friend's incompetence in adapting to the mechanics because you still never once answered my question, "Did you ever try actually taking some precautions?" All you've done is complain about how people capitalize on their stupidity, laziness, and inability to adapt. The reason I repeat this over and over again is that's what this all boils down to. Until you do answer that question, it's pretty safe to assume they never did and never will.


Sorry, I had to fix that part of your post as it was a train wreck trying to understand what you were saying.

Thanks for allowing me to have an opinion. I'm overwhelmed that I'm allowed to actually say something with your permission! Here is what I have to say.

Just to answer your question, that you can't see I have answered a hundred times or been said as much through out this whole thread.

I'm not complaining about stupidity or laziness. I'm giving my opinion about the fact you get 30+ people sitting in SAFTEY around a gate in Hi-Sec waiting for ship worth hitting to come through the gate. You don't see that anywhere else because there is no such thing as saftey anywhere else. Yes, you have gate camps and such but they don't just sit there in saftey.

Then those people sitting around the gate find a target, usually a freighter, and they vaporize a FREIGHTER, of all things, in seconds. Concord comes along and then kills them all while their buddies in haulers, again in saftey, goes and scoops the loot. All the while the freighters friends can't shoot the looters. If it had been anywhere else the gankers would have died rather quickly and the little looter guys would have been killed too.

Wait maybe they should make damage controls built in on freighters and give 60% resist across the board. They have this in the real world, I know I have been on a freighter before!

I don't even know why I am trying, all you'll do is atack me again and get off the subject.

All you have done is attack me and make conjecture. How about you actually post something constructive instead of attacking me for my views. You're telling me I have no voice in the EvE community based on where I currently live. You say I must live in Hi-Sec and have been ganked and that's why I'm saying this stuff.

You can believe what you want to believe. Does it matter where I live or what has happened to me in the past? Are we going to base what people can or can't vote on or have a say in based on this?

We going to start letting people only have a voice on certain things based on where they live in the world or the color of their skin? Maybe we can base it on their sex and religion too. Then after you're done splitting it up that way then we can look at in game stats for those people and again cut the ones who should have no say. Talk about bringing realism into a game, we have enough of that kind of attitude in the real world why would you want to bring it into EvE too?

Every post in this thread from you is an attack on someone, I haven't check the forum itself so I have no idea if this is your MO or not.

FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2010.02.15 14:37:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Shandas

Originally by: FlameGlow
Edited by: FlameGlow on 12/02/2010 16:27:51
guys, guys, I've got solution for insurance problem:
Nerf mining and mission loot -> mineral prices rise -> insurance payout isn't greater then market ship priceTwisted Evil


Wrong T1 ship insurance prices are base loosely around mineral prices. This is why most gankers use T1 and not T2 or T3.

No, you're wrong.
T1 insurance equals base price of all minerals used in production, currently mineral prices on market are below that base, meaning insurance pays more then market price of the ship.
Increase market price of minerals and insurance will pay less -> nerf mining to deal with suicide gank.

Chal0ner
Amarr
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.02.15 14:45:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Anna Lifera
, "don't fly what u can't afford to lose". sound familiar? it's only high sec, not complete sec.


Agreed. After they nerf insurance payout for suicide ganking.
Then the risk is a bit leveled and then you can come back and cry if high sec dwellers still whine about suicide ganking 200m ships.
They risk their 200m ships, you risk your 50m outfit and get almost all back - they don't.

Proposal supported.

And no, I don't live in empire. High sec bores me to tears.

Liol Wongsta
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.02.15 19:43:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Chal0ner


Proposal supported.

And no, I don't live in empire. High sec bores me to tears.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

Anna Lifera
6....
HAWK Alliance
Posted - 2010.02.15 19:53:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: De'Veldrin

Here's an idea: before you accuse people of AFK anything, why don't you get your facts straight.

When I mine, it's usually with three accounts on three screens - two mining, one hauling. My two miners fill up my hauler's cargo hold every cycle, which means that between docking, undocking, and travel time I have about 30 seconds of 'spare' time when I don't have to pay attention to the screen. So bite my ass.

Second, it is not the fact that I can't afford to lose the Hulk that bothers me. I have two of them, plus a Mack, and a half a dozen covetors scattered around. It is the disproportionate amount of effort involved in recovering that irritates me. Gankers cry about the loss of sec status as if it were something they actually cared about (protip - if they cared, they wouldn't be ganking) and use that to justify their essentially free ships. My ass - as I stated before, some helpful fellow demonstrated how to recover the sec status loss from ganking a hulk in about an hour. That's not a penalty - that's an inconvenience.

Why don't you get over yourself?


here's an idea: why don't u stop avoiding the fact that merely switching from a hulk to a covetor would be nothing more than an inconvenience as well? simple as that--no more 200 mil loss since covetors r t1... is it really that hard for u to do? really? maybe it is. why? u're just avoiding this because u don't want to adapt, just like the rest of them. all u did was restate that the loss of a hulk doesn't bother u but just the recovery stage after it, which is essentially the same exact thing.

so cry me a river 'cause u ain't special either. why should the game cater to your unwillingness to adapt?

Originally by: Shandas
I'm not complaining about stupidity or laziness. I'm giving my opinion about the fact you get 30+ people sitting in SAFTEY around a gate in Hi-Sec waiting for ship worth hitting to come through the gate. You don't see that anywhere else because there is no such thing as saftey anywhere else. Yes, you have gate camps and such but they don't just sit there in saftey.


ahh but if the low sec/0.0 camps aren't sitting there in safety compared to the ones in high sec, that would mean it's harder to be ganked in high sec than it is in low sec/0.0. but wait...

Originally by: Anna Lifera
2. and what u're saying is it's harder to be ganked in 0.0 and wormhole space than it is in high sec?


Originally by: Shandas
Yes I am...


really, r u just talking out your ass now?

Originally by: Shandas
Then those people sitting around the gate find a target, usually a freighter, and they vaporize a FREIGHTER, of all things, in seconds. Concord comes along and then kills them all while their buddies in haulers, again in saftey, goes and scoops the loot. All the while the freighters friends can't shoot the looters. If it had been anywhere else the gankers would have died rather quickly and the little looter guys would have been killed too.


it still takes a lot of ppl do something like that, just like any blob not in high sec. and no, the low sec/0.0 gankers won't die quickly because it's still a blob, no matter where it is. most likely, u'll be the one dying if u can't outblob them anyway. second, did u ever think that there r other ppl besides the suicide gankers that r waiting for someone else to gank for them so they can scoop it? and it's not like the gankers will suicide the 3rd party waiting to steal it from them.

Originally by: Shandas
Wait maybe they should make damage controls built in on freighters and give 60% resist across the board. They have this in the real world, I know I have been on a freighter before!


again with the realism, only u just want it to accomodate your laziness and stupidity because u never tried anything at all to protect yourself. if u actually have, plz do tell.


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