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refaeli bar
Posted - 2009.11.27 02:18:00 - [1]
 

the other t3s outclass it. t2 can keep up or do better.

why did ccp incorporate these ships into the game if they arnt any good at anything. They are just like moms.


(tengu is pretty good, Proteus is okay)

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2009.11.27 02:32:00 - [2]
 

Loki is actually pretty decent solo boat compared to the others.

refaeli bar
Posted - 2009.11.27 02:40:00 - [3]
 

link ur fit

Spaztick
Terminal Impact
Kairakau
Posted - 2009.11.27 03:30:00 - [4]
 

The Loki is the most adaptable of the T3 ships. While it doesn't do as well as another T3 ship when you pick a specific role, it will outperform all the others at everything else, so it's a matter of knowing what you plan to use it for and build it accordingly. You say it's outclassed, but at what? That's like saying the Nidhoggur sucks because it's got lower resists than the Archon, but the Archon can't shield rep at all or armor rep as well as the Niddy.

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.11.27 04:11:00 - [5]
 

I'd buy a Loki before I'd take any of the other three for free.

Cavazos
Caldari
Dead Miners INC
Masters of Flying Objects
Posted - 2009.11.27 04:45:00 - [6]
 

ok haha i tried a loki on Sisi and i made it a covert ops....its like a rapier on steroids w/o drones and the 31+km web range but 19km i say works well... i like it its a decent beast little ship...tengu is just over incorporated as a great boat but i see most using it as a mission ***** boat or to orbit and jam 80+km out. lulz. proteus is just insane if fit right. legion can either be a nasty neuter or a ship with "capable" damage is "OMG" tank...loki i like b.c its the most simple of the 4

Vadimik
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.27 06:23:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Vadimik on 27/11/2009 06:25:36

I detect EFT warriors in this thread. I really do.

Instead, let's just have a look at hull actual sales in the forge:
tengu - over 40 sales a day
proteus - over 20 sales a day
legion - about 20 sales a day.
loki - about 15 sales a day.

So, yes, Loki is the least used T3. And, no, EFT will not give a clear answer "why", unless you really fly T3.

Cavazos
Caldari
Dead Miners INC
Masters of Flying Objects
Posted - 2009.11.27 06:56:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Vadimik
Edited by: Vadimik on 27/11/2009 06:25:36

I detect EFT warriors in this thread. I really do.

Instead, let's just have a look at hull actual sales in the forge:
tengu - over 40 sales a day
proteus - over 20 sales a day
legion - about 20 sales a day.
loki - about 15 sales a day.

So, yes, Loki is the least used T3. And, no, EFT will not give a clear answer "why", unless you really fly T3.



ive used all 4 t3's on sisi (yea ik sisi isnt that good) but i mean at least i have an outlook on them comapred to some people

Vadimik
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.27 07:12:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Cavazos

ive used all 4 t3's on sisi (yea ik sisi isnt that good) but i mean at least i have an outlook on them comapred to some people

I'm not saying you don't. Moreover, even those that actually bothered to load a ship into EFT are better at it than those who just make assumptions out of the blue.

The thing is: actual TQ pilots have factors like other ships they can fly and "coolness factor" (yes, the looks of the ship do matter for some), just to name a few.

Cavazos
Caldari
Dead Miners INC
Masters of Flying Objects
Posted - 2009.11.27 07:16:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Cavazos on 27/11/2009 07:16:30
Originally by: Vadimik
Originally by: Cavazos

ive used all 4 t3's on sisi (yea ik sisi isnt that good) but i mean at least i have an outlook on them comapred to some people

I'm not saying you don't. Moreover, even those that actually bothered to load a ship into EFT are better at it than those who just make assumptions out of the blue.

The thing is: actual TQ pilots have factors like other ships they can fly and "coolness factor" (yes, the looks of the ship do matter for some), just to name a few.


yea i totally understand im just saying... from my aspect those are my assumptions not pokin fun at any of the t3's fun cool lil ships to have

EDIT: actually to be honest i can ONLY fly the loki lol.... t3 wise of course

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2009.11.27 08:25:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Vadimik
Edited by: Vadimik on 27/11/2009 06:25:36

I detect EFT warriors in this thread. I really do.

Instead, let's just have a look at hull actual sales in the forge:
tengu - over 40 sales a day
proteus - over 20 sales a day
legion - about 20 sales a day.
loki - about 15 sales a day.

So, yes, Loki is the least used T3. And, no, EFT will not give a clear answer "why", unless you really fly T3.




Subtract the highsec mission runners who are buying a lot of those Tengus and suddenly it's a lot more evenly balanced. Sure, the Loki is still the lowest, but the difference between 20 and 15 is hardly "crippled and useless".

N Ano
Caldari
Templars of Space
Posted - 2009.11.27 09:06:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: refaeli bar
the other t3s outclass it. t2 can keep up or do better.

why did ccp incorporate these ships into the game if they arnt any good at anything. They are just like moms.


(tengu is pretty good, Proteus is okay)

stealth mom nerf whine is stealthy

Shady Salesman
Posted - 2009.11.27 09:21:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Vadimik
Edited by: Vadimik on 27/11/2009 06:25:36

I detect EFT warriors in this thread. I really do.

Instead, let's just have a look at hull actual sales in the forge:
tengu - over 40 sales a day
proteus - over 20 sales a day
legion - about 20 sales a day.
loki - about 15 sales a day.

So, yes, Loki is the least used T3. And, no, EFT will not give a clear answer "why", unless you really fly T3.



OR... the loki is the best ship and doesn't die as often as the others? Laughing

XIII'th
Posted - 2009.11.27 10:54:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: XIII''th on 27/11/2009 10:55:18
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Sure, the Loki is still the lowest, but the difference between 20 and 15 is hardly "crippled and useless".

Its 25% man, it's huuuge difference, make it times seven (a week) and you'll have 140 vs 105... still nothing? Loki is good, but other t3 are simply better.

Vadimik
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.27 11:11:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Vadimik on 27/11/2009 11:11:48
Quote:
OR... the loki is the best ship and doesn't die as often as the others?

Good one.Wink

Quote:
Sure, the Loki is still the lowest, but the difference between 20 and 15 is hardly "crippled and useless".


Noone is saying it's "useless" as in "can't be used". Just saying it's "so-so" in general and twice so when compared with other T3's.

And it's not just market data, in quite a few channels I've asked there were legion, proteus and tengu pilots, but not loki pilots. Hell, I, myself, can pilot both legion and loki, and I do pilot legion but never even bothered to buy a loki. Moreover, I'm about to start piloting proteus, too, and still I'm not tempted into loki.

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.11.27 11:39:00 - [16]
 

The Loki doesn't even look the best on paper, so I'm not sure where the EFT comments came from.

The Loki is its own class of mofo, it takes a special kind of appreciation for what it can do that the others simply can't do as well as the Loki can.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2009.11.27 11:56:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: refaeli bar
the other t3s outclass it. t2 can keep up or do better.

why did ccp incorporate these ships into the game if they arnt any good at anything. They are just like moms.


(tengu is pretty good, Proteus is okay)



quite wrong.


the worse T3 is the legion. Loki is somewhat on par with the proteus while the tengu is the best.

Vadimik
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.27 11:56:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Anubis Xian
...that the others simply can't do as well as the Loki can.

And what exactly a Loki can do other ships can't do better?

Vadimik
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.27 12:07:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Grimpak

the worse T3 is the legion. Loki is somewhat on par with the proteus while the tengu is the best.

If you compare T3's without any regard to other racial cruisers and mostly in terms of DPS and tank - yea, I guess legion would come last.

But the simple fact is - loki is the least popular T3.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.27 12:15:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Vadimik


I detect EFT warriors in this thread. I really do.




This.

Loki is interesting and it cen be setup as a nice super Vaga making it cool for solo.

Tho imo perfer Tengu over it any day (for PVP, ofc)

Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
Posted - 2009.11.27 12:36:00 - [21]
 

The only absolute weakness I see in Loki is too many lows and not enough mids in most setups to support shield tank (I think CCP is behind the times and actually though PvP subs supporting armor tank is good thing, on matar t2 resists no less, they do show mild cluelessness about matar in general).

The real (relative) weakness people are hinting at is, it does not really do anything extraordinary compared to T2 or T3 alternatives.

It is imo the only T3 that is actually flexible and has real working options. It is fine, not blatantly overpowered like people expect from T3.

It is bad compared to Tengu, sure, what's not.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.11.27 12:55:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: TimMc on 27/11/2009 13:21:48
I bought a Loki yesturday and so far am loving it.

Edit: It could use some more manoeuvrability, without requiring the nano subsystem.

Othosz
Posted - 2009.11.27 13:37:00 - [23]
 

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/22770-Loki-Shield-RR-Voltron.html#msg340806

Yeah, it sucks. /S

Deathbarrage
Posted - 2009.11.27 13:39:00 - [24]
 

How can you say the loki is the worst t3 when there's a certain ship called a Legion for sale?

aherrrm

Jojo Jackson
Caldari
Posted - 2009.11.27 16:17:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 27/11/2009 16:22:08
Originally by: XIII'th
Edited by: XIII''th on 27/11/2009 10:55:18
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Sure, the Loki is still the lowest, but the difference between 20 and 15 is hardly "crippled and useless".

Its 25% man, it's huuuge difference, make it times seven (a week) and you'll have 140 vs 105... still nothing? Loki is good, but other t3 are simply better.


25% is nothink if you get them for such small numbers and such a small time-frame. Even a month as frame is not enough for real calculations.


For pur DPS the loki has to compet with Hurrican, for nanoing/sniping with both HACs and with the commands for gang+tank.
And we all know ... Minmatar has some realy cool ships as long as we don't count BS and it's hard to top this sub-BS ships with T3.

Tengu: no other Caldari sub-BS ship can combine this tank + decent DPS
Proteus: no other Gallente sub-BS ship can combine this DPS + decent tank/agility
Legion: half decent tank, low DPS .. BUT compared to all other Amarr ships it has nice medium slots + drones + tank + dps or can provide a nice HAM-platform ... so very high allround util

For Legion I know, most of you give a **** about "util" and I know I will be flamed for this ... but there are many Amarr who love "util" ;).

There is no real reson to chose the Loki over the MUCH cheeper Hurrican, Vegabond, Munin or one of the Commands.
Just cloak + EW + decent DPS are realy worth the price (30km web, about 350 dps, cloak, ok buffer/tank).

As you can see it's not "other T3 are better" as the Legion is for sure the worst of all 4 ;).
It's more "with what do they have to compet".

T3 vis. BC, HAC, Command, Recon
And here the Loki suffers from very strong ships for minmatar.

Thuranni
Eldjotnar
Posted - 2009.11.27 16:39:00 - [26]
 

Itt: People who can't think outside the box.

Loki Autocannon + remote shield boosting gang.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.11.27 16:47:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Thuranni
Itt: People who can't think outside the box.

Loki Autocannon + remote shield boosting gang.


So it can do one thing then, not too bad for a modular ship then.

- The Vaga version doesn't get anywhere near the speed of a vaga although it has lots more tank
- the rapier version is not really that much better at being a rapier
- trying to armor tank it almost always ends in horrible fits.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2009.11.27 17:16:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 27/11/2009 17:17:58
Originally by: Marko Riva

- The Vaga version doesn't get anywhere near the speed of a vaga although it has lots more tank
- the rapier version is not really that much better at being a rapier



Then again the Hugabond version is awesome, and beats Huginn as well as Vagabond any day of the week, both of them 2 vs 1 if needed. Its pretty much the endgame ship for minmatar HAC / recon enthusiasts that enjoy solo work tbh.

Just need to drop the idea of putting a cov ops cloak and interdiction nullifier on every t3, and you'll enjoy it.

Originally by: Marko Riva

- trying to armor tank it almost always ends in horrible fits.


True that, but who would want to armor tank minmatar anyway? Those lows are for gyros and speedmods.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.11.27 17:41:00 - [29]
 

Well, for starters, you have the option to armor tank. Also, I'd like to see a Huginn like setup that's worthwhile without being silly. In other words it decently outperforms the Huginn while not using idiotic officer/deadspace crap.

Mr Ignitious
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.11.27 17:46:00 - [30]
 

Few things to mention first:

NONE of the T3's were ever MEANT to outperform T2. The fact that some of them do is probably due to the fact CCP realized if they didn't outperform T2 in tanking they'd never sell.

Next, tengus and proteuses may sell a bit more, but I can almost promise you 90% of them are nearly identical. Most of the subsystems aren't worth fitting. I'd say this most applies to the tengu because almost all of them are for mission running. For the proteus most are cloaky plated piles of poop (I REALLY think they are overrated...)

The loki's my friends have owned at least have some diversity and they seem to like theirs. Some are rapier probers, some are vagahuginns. I suppose they all tend to use the webbing system afaik, but as I said most of the subsystems aren't used like ever (IE: I really like the idea of the supplemental coolant subsystem, but you'll rarely see them)

And further, I can't quite explain why legions sell more, its probably due to the fact amarr is FOTM and everyone can fly zealots and don't have minmitar cruiser 5. The zealot snipes as well as the legion, cross that off. Guardian is a better logi, cross it off. Sacrilege does HAMs almost as well. Abso beats out the legion for just pulses and tank. I suppose the one thing that all the T3 have going for them are superior gang links. Get cloaky so you can get around without too much risk, then when the fight starts for your gank safe and bonus.

Tl;Dr -
Tengu is just better than all the other T3 as far as I've seen. If you can find a non-ewar dedicated role (ie no you won't get a 20km webbing tengu) for any T3, the tengu will more than likely be the best at it, not to mention its a strong mission runner.

Proteus fields a strong buffer tank and decent dps even if you go cloaky. I personally was suprised that it took off like it did but, w/e. It serves no role in PVE because it can't field 5 heavy drones, and rails are wretched.

Loki has decent dps, decent speed and agility (I think it is INCREDIBLY stupid that the tengu is more agile than the loki, but w/e it just shows bias). From what I've seen the loki can be very fun solo/small gang and can tear apart frigs even better than 180mm vagas can. It can still be viable with a cloaky fit.

Legion i think people are using for doing wormholes. There is some fit floating around people keep saying is so great for clearing C3 stuff. Well legion, I'm really happy for you - and I'm gonna let you finish, but the tengu is the best C3 sleeper killer of all time... OF ALL TIME. The legion's cloaky subsystem is complete trash because you will deal maller dps... woopee. Beyond that you won't have any good contributing ewar. All you will be at best is a 500mil brick of armor. If that's your idea of fun then maybe you will enjoy it.


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