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blankseplocked Point Defense Systems for Capital Ships or "you're doing it wrong"
 
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2009.11.25 23:32:00 - [1]
 

I've read numerous posts and some pretty ridiculous speculation and conjecture on the topic of 'flak guns' and 'little shootie things' for carriers and other capital class ships. From 'it doesn't have to do anything, just look cool' to 'we don't need to make capitals even more overpowered'. I think that a point defense system could be easily and reasonably added to capital ships and I think it would be balanced as well.

Point Defense Systems-

What I envision for Point Defense Systems or "PDS" is a module that is only capable of being fit on capital sized ships that has an area of effect similar to that of a smartbomb, but has an optimal range and a falloff, along with a tracking component. Unlike smartbombs (one of the worst misnomers in all of Eve), a PDS system would be able to be used while very close to a gate or station due to it's selective targeting properties.

Functionally a PDS module would have a maximum number of targets that it would auto-engage per module. This would be balanced through play testing, but I don't think that four targets per module would be overpowered. This is similar to how smartbombs work, damaging numerous targets at once for a small amount of damage.

Targets would be engaged using an algorithm similar to that of Sleeper AI, assigning a threat/capability value to each target within range. The range of engagement/activation could be tuned by the user using scripts. Once activated, the system would be fully passive and only engage targets that are directly attacking your ship.

There would of course be racial PDS, with Minmatar using projectile systems, Hybrids for Gallente, missiles for Caldari and so on. Ammunition and capacitor consumption would be their traditional benefits and drawbacks.

As far as the art goes, we can simply use scaled down versions of existing muzzle graphics and projectiles to simulate the smaller caliber weapons of a PDS. the most difficult part for the art department would be assigning nodes on each ship for nodes on the model (bones really) to act as points for the muzzle effects to issue from. There would be no need to model the individual PDS systems, as they'd be embedded in the hull of the ship and too small to be viewed effectively.

<more>

murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2009.11.25 23:46:00 - [2]
 

<continued>

As far as the game logic and programming overhead, I don't think that it would be any more taxing for the server to run than if you attached a Sleeper NPC AI script to a player's carrier and allowed it to defend it.

My design falls within existing parameters of current game mechanics and design and is specifically constructed so as to not try and add something new and unique with respect to coding. My aim is to allow CCP to reuse/cannibalize as much of their existing work as possible.

The PDS themselves would do LESS DPS than the equivalent large smartbomb, but do damage at greater ranges than smartbombs (up to 20-25km) but to potentially much fewer targets (four per PDS instead of damaging a fighter cloud of 50+ fighters for example).

Multiple PDS modules could be fit to a single ship, giving it more DPS to a wider number of targets. All fitted PDS modules would work cooperatively with the AI scripting to most efficiently defeat threats.

I think that this concept offers something that is unique with respect to it's capabilities and compromises and would add new and interesting gameplay to Eve while providing for some cool visual effects.

Comments?

Valentia Valens
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2009.11.26 00:29:00 - [3]
 

Simple fix - change the name of each Smartbomb to Energy Pulse Weapon - EMP Pulse weapon, Kinetic Pulse weapon, etc... much cooler and actually correct name... agreed smartbomb isn't so smart a name.

As for additional PDS, I can't really see it... the above name change fixes that, and defender missiles if they got a buff to "auto-fire and cycle" would be the rest, no other real need I think.

Sepheir Sepheron
Caldari
1st Grave
Posted - 2009.11.26 01:42:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Valentia Valens
Simple fix - change the name of each Smartbomb to Energy Pulse Weapon - EMP Pulse weapon, Kinetic Pulse weapon, etc... much cooler and actually correct name... agreed smartbomb isn't so smart a name.

As for additional PDS, I can't really see it... the above name change fixes that, and defender missiles if they got a buff to "auto-fire and cycle" would be the rest, no other real need I think.


Wut..?

Anyways, I could see that working in line, balance wise to frigates. I mean since smart bombs hurt more there only thing these really do that smart bombs don't is go farther. However I don't think they should be able to target pods.
A suggestion on the amount of ships targeted by the system; one additional target per level of PDS. (1 at 1, 5 at 5)

Markus Reese
Caldari
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2009.11.26 02:05:00 - [5]
 

A point defence system imo can be automated to a point, but I think AI should just be like drones. You need to activate it on a target, and only a few km range. After that, to direct, you either need to lock and activate point defense, or they shoot at whatever is within their range.

Also would look kinda cool too. You know, at 1:13 of the dominion trailer, it looks as though the chimera there has some sort of point defense gun going. Is machine gun fire, but I saw no minmatar in the attacking fleet.

Foraven
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.26 02:41:00 - [6]
 

I would find PD much more interesting if they actually do what they are supposed to do in RL, shooting down missiles. The only weapon i know off in EVE that does it is the anti-missile, but it's very sub par since you have to activate it manually and it target one missile at a time, no matter how many launchers. If only smart bombs actually destroyed incomming missiles (tried it, don't work).

Markus Reese
Caldari
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2009.11.26 03:19:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Foraven
I would find PD much more interesting if they actually do what they are supposed to do in RL, shooting down missiles. The only weapon i know off in EVE that does it is the anti-missile, but it's very sub par since you have to activate it manually and it target one missile at a time, no matter how many launchers. If only smart bombs actually destroyed incomming missiles (tried it, don't work).


Well, if they actually worked, wouldn't be so bad...

WildAmishRose
Caldari
Posted - 2009.11.26 05:29:00 - [8]
 

Eve online is the only piece of military science fiction I've ever seen where capital ships DONT have some sort of point defense system.

I guess its inherent in the mmo field that we have to bend to balance, but still, it doesn't even make sense that someone would construct a dreadnaught/carrier/titan that can be screwed over by a frigate.

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2009.11.26 09:02:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Kanatta Jing on 26/11/2009 09:08:38
Frigates don't really hurt Titans and Moms as they can warp off before the lone Frigate breaks their tank. Well if they where aligned somewhere first at least or else it's nerve wracking race against time, to see if the Warp happens before the Super Capital is destroyed.

Frigates don't really hurt Carriers and Dreads as they can use Warrior 2's to save them before the lone Frigate can break their tank.

But I do think that Point Defense or Flack Guns or Ship to missle missles belong on Destroyers.

<Edit> Added more sarcasm

TRD 2371
Posted - 2009.11.26 11:19:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: TRD 2371 on 26/11/2009 11:23:28
a capital pds would be a great addition to the game. having no pds on capitals just seems unrealistic to me.

then of course one always has to consider what impact it has on the already existing game and that, wow, it just seems very complicated.

what would happen to drones....

murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2009.11.30 03:18:00 - [11]
 

The PDS should exist as it provides capabilities above and beyond what smartbombs achieve. Antimissile systems? We have smartbombs for that.

Only firing on locked targets? The point of a PDS is to be able to engage targets without having to wait for the lock time of a capital ship, and also not interfere with the maximum number of locked targets for a particular ship.

Defender missiles? We have defenders for that. Next...

Only engaging frigs? Well, if the issue that the PDS isn't worth bothering with if it's targets are limited to frigs, then let us have them engage cruisers as well.

The true value of a PDS isn't in simply defending a single ship, but having overlapping volumes of fire where a group of capital ships could defend itself against smaller support craft and drones/fighters.

Storm Templar
Amarr
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Posted - 2009.11.30 04:34:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Storm Templar on 30/11/2009 04:36:10
Having PDS engaging frigates is tad OP'ed for capital ship, but having PDS loaded with scripts/programs to specifically engage bombs/drones/missiles will no be OP'ed. IMO anyway.
Loaded with Anti-Drones protocol: Only drones are targeted.
Loaded with Anti-Missiles protocol: Only incoming missiles are targeted, so on and so on.

Having 50dps.....wouldn't be overpowered would it?

edit: you will also need ammo in your cargohold, and the PDS should be a high slot modules. Also, it shouldn't take down a full flight of fighters by itself, but it should maul them pretty well.

Markus Reese
Caldari
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2009.11.30 05:13:00 - [13]
 

Here is the question, will they only be able to shoot at things agressing them? If so, that is more fair I think, and would visually look cool with capitals having these autocannon spreads, etc.

Vladimir Griftin
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.11.30 11:20:00 - [14]
 

Doubt this would ever be considered due to the additional lag it would cause.

Markus Reese
Caldari
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2009.11.30 19:01:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
Doubt this would ever be considered due to the additional lag it would cause.


Don't think it would really cause any lag, the system would work in conjunction with the current drone agro system, just a bit modified. As it would take high slots, it isn't really adding anything on the weapons side too.

Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.30 19:56:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
Doubt this would ever be considered due to the additional lag it would cause.


actualyl it'd be just a turret effect, so in lag-rich situations (like a cap battle) it'd be only for specific clients who are too stupid to have the effects off in the first place.

Jonathan Dawnchaser
Caldari
Profit Chasing llc
Posted - 2009.12.01 01:12:00 - [17]
 

Sounds like FOF Light Missiles in an Assault Missile Launcher.


 

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