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Kieselguhr Kid
Posted - 2009.11.24 04:17:00 - [1]
 

This is going to take a little background. In early 2008, the devs released this blog. In that blog, CCP Greyscale, the man in charge of exploration, made the following post (excuse the terrible formatting):

Quote:
CCP Greyscale

Quote:
Originally by: Marlona SkyExploration: Is there a way to make exploration sites spawn at random times instead of just after down time? Really sucks big time for US time zone based players who get whats left over from the Euro time zone players.

Unless of course someone has told me a horrible lie about when the exploration sites are spawned...


I think someone's told you a horrible lie tbh... Downtime currently has no effect that I'm aware of on any aspect of the Exploration system*.


Nobody corrected Greyscale at the time because it wasn't in their best interest and before Apocrypha, probing mechanics sucked so much it was impossible to be sure. However, what Greyscale said was wrong. Non-wormhole exploration sites only respawn at downtime.

The following was a closely guarded secret for a long time, but Dominion is about to break the entire thing and, before it does that, I'm going to go public in a last ditch effort to stop it. Here's how 0.0 (no clue re: hisec) exploration really works:

-there are a set amount of each site in each "NPC area" (for example, all of Blood Raider space, including Delve, Querious, and PB. This may or may not also include lowsec; no idea.) For example, at the start of each day, D/Q/PB contains a total of 3 10/10 plexes, something like 8 total 6/10s - although some might be in lowsec so this number could be higher - and a truckload of Blood Raider Bases.

-when a site is run, it does not respawn until the following downtime. The only exceptions are wormholes, which do spawn throughout the day.

-if a site is not run in a given downtime, it stays around for another few DTs until finally vanishing ~96 hours later. This means that if no one ever jumps into a system to scan it for a few weeks while every other system in the region is regularly run, it's sure to contain a whole lot of sigs. My personal observed record was 22.

A few professional explorers know this; the rest probably assumed that when they ran sites, they would just respawn somewhere else. But the test to prove plexes do not respawn is very simple. Take a covops and scan down as many systems as you can at 8 AM EST; then scan them again at 8 PM. The only new sigs will be wormholes. I know of someone who has done this in over 100 systems with 0 new sites, so if sites are respawning in the middle of the day, they're doing it in Jove space.

So far, so good, but here's where Dominion screws things up. We've tested some of the outpost upgrades on SiSi and found out that the exploration "upgrade" does 1 of 2 things [we do not yet know which]:

1)It attracts every plex of a certain type in the game (for example, a 6/10) into an upgraded system;

2)It just continually spawns more plexes.

If it just keeps spawning plexes, the first part of this post doesn't matter, because every rifter in the game will be using Corpum A-Type hardeners in a year and the entire economy will blow up no matter what.

If it attracts 6/10's, any alliance that installs the pirate upgrades will be putting about 5b isk's worth of sites into one system. Remember, once run, plexes do not respawn until downtime, and they come up promptly at 7 AM EST, the start of Russian prime. If you are Russian, Dominion will be fantastic for you; if you are a US player, you can forget about running a valuable plex ever again. On the bright side, since players do not currently run 100% of possible plexes and the upgrades guarantee that they will, the economy will eventually explode anyway.

I hope all of you see why Dominion is going to drive 0.0 explo off a cliff. I'm hitting the char limit so I'll just stop here. Bye!~

Horchan
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.24 04:41:00 - [2]
 

Lies and slander.

I've personally seen sites spawn in the middle of the day. This goes for profession sites, escalation combat sites, and DED rated combat sites. It might not respawn immediately after it despawns, but it doesn't wait until downtime to respawn either.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2009.11.24 06:16:00 - [3]
 

Can we get some proof on either claims?

Professor Jinmei
Posted - 2009.11.24 06:26:00 - [4]
 

I've also had experiences of finding new plexes when I came back (sometimes I forget I've already run the system) hours after clearing the system... but it was in highsec so..

Ghoul Ahn'Khor
Perkone
Posted - 2009.11.24 07:18:00 - [5]
 

I find no-respawns in hi-sec difficult to believe because I'm on most the week just about 3-4 hours before downtime and I go exploring in hi-sec (within a certain area)and find 4/10 plexes, ladar, mag, radar, lookout posts, etc. all the time. I can't believe by the time Eve has come online to the time I log on that someone hasn't scanned these down and ran them.

Shana Matika
Posted - 2009.11.24 08:20:00 - [6]
 

Sites respawn when cleared (some with a timer before they respawn).
I scan sometimes during break at work, clear every Radar/Magsite and when I'm at home I scan while preparing my meal.
Some day's I find the same site over and over again (in different locations) within a few ours in the same system. I often scan "next to the mainroutes" of the constellation.
I can just speak about 1.0-0.1 as i don't scan an fly actually in nullsec, but it would make no sense to use 2 different mechanics here.
And i think you misunderstood the change the new sov-system and system development implements. The System get X guaranteed sites of type Y. So after DT you know there will be at least X types during the day. Only point I still don't know: Do the guaranteed sites spawn right after DT or during the day. Spawn every day the number and stay the normal time and if so will spawn an addition site the next day if the sites were not cleared before DT? This way you could "collect" the grav-sites and set up a big OP every 2-3 Days instead of every day and start cleaning all the ABC+Merc inside the sites without "loosing" any site.

Lt Forge
Pilots Of Honour
Aeternus.
Posted - 2009.11.24 10:07:00 - [7]
 

Change some words in this thread and you'll get the exact copy of the American Republican's opposition against Obama's plans.

UniOne
Posted - 2009.11.24 10:21:00 - [8]
 

I do it everyday, and no, its not true.. we can actually find the same site over and over again in 23h perid in the same region. I did it like 2 times, with a DED 4/10. The thing that i notice is that some type of systems stack a bunch of sites and expecially WH's... like dead ends.. and that type of systems that no one ever scan.... that i think deserve a look throught in dominion.

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.11.24 11:05:00 - [9]
 

First off i dont believe your understanding of respawn rates are correct.

As for what happens to deadspace/officer gear of more sites are available/ran each day- who knows. Maybe a bunch of stuff will be picked up and prices will drop.
Or maybe the drop rates will be lowered- maybe a certain amount are seeded per month. Only ccp knows- and theyre not talking.

0/10 for the "omg its the end of eve" thread
getting a little sick of them is why i rated it so low

Tameris Khan
Posted - 2009.11.24 11:16:00 - [10]
 

OP: that's utter rubbish, over the last year I've found hundreds of sites appear in systems I've already scanned.

Steve Celeste
Overdogs
Posted - 2009.11.24 11:21:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Lt Forge
Change some words in this thread and you'll get the exact copy of the American Republican's opposition against Obama's plans.

So he has a good point then?

Haram Haram
Posted - 2009.11.24 15:01:00 - [12]
 

So you are saying the economy floats on faction loot? -lol
Plus,if what you say is true and you get a constant stream of deadspace sites (assuming they all drop loot) they will be dirt cheap. Ppl would switch to mining for better isk per hr rate.- Oh wait than we would be better of plexing, ...oh wait no that ..err..mining russians. They will beat me to the rocks!!!

REVOLT!!!

Julia Venatrix
Posted - 2009.11.24 22:16:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid
[Snip whiny rant]


tl;dr - OP snivels that they might lose their low-risk high-return farmable ISK source.

KK, really, my heart bleeds for your loss. You'd better emoragequit and go play WoW.

Or, you know, adapt.

If the former, can I have your stuff?

Kodac Jacobi
Posted - 2009.11.24 23:31:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Kodac Jacobi on 24/11/2009 23:36:04
Hmm, can you please explain the following, then ...

I play primary in the DT-7 to DT-2 time frame. I play in 0.0 and scan the same 15-20 systems at least 2 or 3 times in this time frame.

If a DED 6/10 for example doesnt respawn until DT, how is it I can find them on a regular basis. With your theory, the last quarter of the EVE day most plexes should be run and done, and awaiting DT. Yet I still find them. And, one night I ran the 6/10 three times in a row, it respawned in systems I had previously scanned, twice apparently in a 4 hr span.

According to your authoritive post, this is impossible.


Your information and premise are wrong.

Also for the few times I have gotten up and scanned immediately after DT, there has never been a great influx of new sigs. I believe some sigs will respawn afer DT, but for the most part most will respawn after short delay or immediately.

And the area I scan is quite popular wth others, I know of at least 3 or 4 peeps who scan the same systems on a regular basis.

My understanding of the upgrades for Dominion is they will increase the chance of a plex spawning in the upgraded system, not automatic respawns ( only the anomaly one is supposed to be automatic respawning).

Corrections are welcome here, feel free.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.24 23:32:00 - [15]
 

The OP is just wrong. When I did exploration I saw numerous instances of sites (Non-wormhole) popping up while I was scanning a system.


Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.11.25 04:23:00 - [16]
 

I regularly play in the hours immediately preceeding downtime. If the OP was correct, I would never ever see fresh exploration sites, as they would all have been long since exploited and despawned.

If I hang around a system long enough, new sites will appear.

Note, this is not a case of "scan now, then log out and come back four hours later, still nothing". What happens there is that the site is spawned, and within fifteen minutes it is probed down and emptied. I've witnessed this myself, with three covops frigates arriving at the one exploration site within five minutes of it first showing up on my cosmic anomalies listing.

The only sites that hang around for a long time are the ones that don't despawn quickly (ie: wormholes) or the ones that noone cares about ( ie: gravimetric sites full of omber and jaspet).

If you want to prove that sites do not spawn in a given system over a 12 hour period, you do not have a look now, then go away and come back 12 hours later to have another look. To prove that sites do not spawn in a given system, you have to keep scanning that system for 12 hours. Otherwise all you have proven is that there were no spawns of sites that were such low quality that noone wanted to run them.

As for your uninformed guessing about the upgrades for Sovereignty, there are at least two modules you can use to influence exploration sites. One will guarantee a certain number of "anomalies" (these are the ones you can detect with the ship's own scanner), the other will increase the chance of a DED n/10 plex spawning in your system.

The extra anomalies will not flood the market with Corpum A-Types, since they are being farmed in nullsec and are therefore subject to losses via PvP, and the anomalies that are spawned are not the kinds that spew this kind of loot like a piņata.

TL;DR: exploration sites do so respawn during the day (nyah nyah), and the Sovereignty system will not result in the market being flooded with high-meta items. More will be available, yes. Perhaps the price for those modules might even drop below the 500M ISK mark. I doubt we'll see Rifters sporting Corpum A-Type Armor Repairers except to prove a point (eg: "I'm richer than you").

Higgs Foton
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.25 09:43:00 - [17]
 

OP is indeed wrong. I have found guristas plexes in the middle of the day in systems which where empty two hours before that. The mechanic is that a plex respawns elswhere in the region when it is finished. Also drops are random. I finished a plex once right after DT and it dropped nothing, while i finished Pith's Penal plex a few times in the middle of the day, and it dropped rattlesnake bpc twice.

Nareg Maxence
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.25 10:31:00 - [18]
 

Let me chime in too!

OP is wrong. Sites have a cooldown timer once they are done. After the timer runs out it respawns somewhere else. There was another dev post around when Apochrypha came out that stated that this is how it works.

Narfas Deteis
Posted - 2009.11.25 11:36:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Nareg Maxence
Let me chime in too!

OP is wrong. Sites have a cooldown timer once they are done. After the timer runs out it respawns somewhere else. There was another dev post around when Apochrypha came out that stated that this is how it works.


To be more precise: some sites have cooldown time (which may vary, but it's somewhere between 1 and 5h, depends of site), others respawn immediately.
OP is wrong of course, respawns are not connected to DT with one exception: 72h timer (if site wasn't found it despawns after 72h + DT time).

Funny thing, threads like this appear on forum every week probably, again and again.

Mintala Arana
Amarr
Posted - 2009.11.25 11:43:00 - [20]
 

It occurs to me that if everybody could be convinced that "sites spawn at downtime, so there's no point in scanning late in the day" someone (not naming names, just sayin') might find late day scanning rather more profitable than at present. Rolling Eyes

Cypher V
Minmatar
Critical Mass Technologies
Posted - 2009.11.25 11:53:00 - [21]
 

"Will ruin the economy." - No it will not, it's already ruined thanks to macro-able missions and mining. Fix that first.

Babel
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2009.11.25 12:07:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Julia Venatrix
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid
[Snip whiny rant]


tl;dr - OP snivels that they might lose their low-risk high-return farmable ISK source.

KK, really, my heart bleeds for your loss. You'd better emoragequit and go play WoW.

Or, you know, adapt.

If the former, can I have your stuff?


Post = produced by a forum-bot ? .... bloody macros getting everywhere :)

SFM Hobb3s
Vanguard Frontiers
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.11.25 18:11:00 - [23]
 

OP is incorrect about the site spawning. More than once I've scanned down all the sigs in a given system, and then have a new one such as gurista scout outpost, vigil, watch, radar or mag site appear.

The only thing I'm pretty sure of is that once dominion hits faction ship prices will spike so I should probably stop selling those Worms.

Tierius Fro
Posted - 2009.11.25 18:14:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Tierius Fro on 25/11/2009 18:15:49

It will destroy 0.0 exploration in the sense that you won't have to do much exploring to find something, which is okay by me.

With just a few players scanning, our 0.0 constellation would dry up real quick. And then I longed for empire where I could easily just keep scanning, without additional risk.

As far as the economy, well, players will be pretty much making the same ISK as before, just doing it a different way. It comes down to ISK per hour spent. Now, if they increase bounties (as some players want), thus increasing the ISK per hour payout, then then you will see inflation.

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2009.11.26 08:21:00 - [25]
 

Faction and Officer Gear might drop to usable prices, by which I mean on ships that blow up every now and then.

I've sold 200 million ISK Energized Adaptive plates, but they'd still be neat at 50 million. Especially if I could sell them by the 4 pack.

Sites do spawn during the day, it's just that more spawn right after down time.

Qui Shon
Posted - 2009.11.26 08:55:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Kanatta Jing
Faction and Officer Gear might drop to usable prices, by which I mean on ships that blow up every now and then.

I've sold 200 million ISK Energized Adaptive plates, but they'd still be neat at 50 million. Especially if I could sell them by the 4 pack.


Which is a terrible development. Right now if you blow someone up and they drop fancy stuff, it's an event, something special. If the stuff is trivialized, it'll make even that just another meh experience. "Yeah he dropped x-type this and that, but who cares I already have 50 of them in my hangar."

Likewise, if you choose to risk bn's worth of gear in an engagement, it gives that extra adrenaline boost. Something which cannot exist (other then for noobs) without risking something that's substantial for you, something you can't just replace easily.

For older players with plenty of isk, high value stuff is needed.

Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
Discord.
Posted - 2009.11.26 09:04:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Mahke on 26/11/2009 09:08:59
Edited by: Mahke on 26/11/2009 09:05:17
After downtime respawn locked Americans out of much of the benefits of exploration, because competing for respawn scraps is so inferior to those who could reap all of them right after DT.

Fixing the downtime-only problem is absolutely crucial if exploration is ever to be a core part of pve for all of EVE.

Stop bawwwing about your unfair and unmerited edge from previous bad game design being taken away.

edit: not saying its not worth exploring for people in bad timezone for it, just much disadvantage comparitively

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.11.26 09:16:00 - [28]
 

Op, you're first paragraph is totally wrong. I often pop out at random times in the day and find new sigs have spawned.

As to the rest, tell me why its an issue? Prices change due to patches all the time. You have to adjust to it. It's clear CCP do not want Exploration as a specialised role any more. WH's made sure that should not be the case. That was obvious when they made it more fun to do in March. They also want cheaper T2 and hence named mods. Try and look at the bigger picture rather than being upset you're monopoly is no longer there.

achoura
Posted - 2009.11.26 11:45:00 - [29]
 

DT does have no effect, when one ded site is finished it re-spawns instantly somewhere else. Congratulations on not being able to read/looking like a wally. Anomalies will be effected in dominion, so ccp will have to tweak span/drop rates of low end faction mods, buy ded gear remains untouched.

I don't understand who you can directly quote greyscale telling someone it's not true, then tell people it's true. F.A.I.L.

Tralna Minita
Posted - 2009.11.26 13:49:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Steve Celeste
Originally by: Lt Forge
Change some words in this thread and you'll get the exact copy of the American Republican's opposition against Obama's plans.

So he has a good point then?


Yeh, if you think poor people being able to afford health care is un-American.

I think that what the OP is saying about sites not respawning between downtimes is false. I dont do as much exploration as I used to but before the new probing system came out I remember having new sites spawn as I was scanning for a system. Also the fact is that exploration isnt really about the loot anyway; its about the exploration.


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