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Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.12.17 21:47:00 - [211]
 

Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader
That is still 0 tanked DPS if you dont have a means of repping


Are you sure you aren't arguing for the sake of arguing? Obviously he had a rep fit - otherwise he wouldn't be talking about how much explosive DPS he could tank.

-Liang

Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
Posted - 2009.12.17 21:50:00 - [212]
 

He hasnt mentioned one, just that he had an EANM and DCU equipped. You've seen some WTF fits that show up on killboards, never take anything for granted.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.17 21:57:00 - [213]
 

Edited by: Furb Killer on 17/12/2009 21:57:56
I was ratting, so obviously i had a rep fitted. And before you continue, yes it was an armor repper and not a hull repper.


Btw i just after a lot of whining in alliance chat got a alliancie to send some warrior II drones (unbonussed) on my hound. My hound was fitted with t1 AB (since a t2 AB costs isk i am not willing to spend on a useless hound, useless because i cant fit torps) and a MSE. I tried some different things, like overloading, not overloading, not moving, etc. Result was that it took them roughly 1.5 minutes to almost down my shields (15-20% left, didnt want to explode). (and since i am in a honest mood, it was a sentinel so only 4 drones).

Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
Posted - 2009.12.17 22:06:00 - [214]
 

that sounds about right.
MSE gives a hound like 3.5K ehp, and 4 Unbonused Warrior II's is only like 60ish DPS. The AB really shouldn't have much if any impact due to the warrior II's speed, even an MWD wouldn't help really.

Tagami Wasp
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.12.17 22:14:00 - [215]
 

Edited by: Tagami Wasp on 17/12/2009 22:15:39
MWD allows warriors better hits (larger sig). But I would not fly a ship in 0.0 w/out a MWD.

Still I don't see how cloak affects you. I think Liang is right. You just want to have isk handed to you in a silver platter and those damn cloakers instapopped, cause they touched your special domi.

Still I don't see why you can't find a good counter, all of the rest of us, obviously have.

BTW, we laugh at the pathetic Provi pet's efforts to imitate us in our home systems. You know why? Cause we are not you. We are not afraid to undock, we take measures to counter the cloakers and when they uncloak, we engage, not run. Finally when one of us loses a ship to one, we look at what was done wrong, and train to not do it again.

In conclusion, the mods to counter the cloakers are already there, grow some...

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.17 22:17:00 - [216]
 

Edited by: Furb Killer on 17/12/2009 22:18:14
Edited by: Furb Killer on 17/12/2009 22:17:46
a mwd would change it quite a bit, since the drones then go switching between mwd and orbit, which they always do too late. On the other hand it explodes your sig so they do better. Problem is probably more PG and cap. (t2 warp disruptor eats as much as a mwd, with warp scram he would have way more cap, but then would risk being tackled by bait).

Quote:
You think cloaking is still the issue?

Quote:
Still I don't see how cloak affects you.

You obviously dont get it, this isnt about cloaking.

Tagami Wasp
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.12.17 22:33:00 - [217]
 

Looks at thread title.


Yes, I agree, the issue is that you need to grow some and stop being chicken and realise that if it is not a problem with the game, it is a problem with you. Accept that you don't have the... guts to undock, you should not be in 0.0 and go back to farming missions in empire.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.17 22:40:00 - [218]
 

Maybe you should consider reading more than the title. Or consider high sec if you want to be able to hang in a system risk free.

Btw going to some quiet system what was adviced, then you can also pretty much remove the option of hoping help comes in time.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.12.17 22:47:00 - [219]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Btw going to some quiet system what was adviced, then you can also pretty much remove the option of hoping help comes in time.


True, but the risk of someone AFK cloaking you goes to nil that way too.

-Liang

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.17 22:58:00 - [220]
 

Thats indeed true.

Lysander Kaldenn
Dead Reckoning.
Posted - 2009.12.18 04:02:00 - [221]
 

Edited by: Lysander Kaldenn on 18/12/2009 04:02:33
Here is a novel solution to your problem. Fit your carebear ship for pvp. A properly fit BS ought to be able to reverse gank most recons (unless your whining about falcons in which case start a falcon thread), if not kill at least stay alive until helps arrives.

Rats put out pathetic amounts of damage, theres no need to fit rat specific tanks like you were grinding high sec missions. You need to skill up and pull your head out of your ass tbh.

If you are incapable of doing this you need to move back to empire and stop this pathetic whine.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.18 07:21:00 - [222]
 

Edited by: Furb Killer on 18/12/2009 09:18:31
Have you actually ever been in an anomaly? And where exactly are we talking about recons? Maybe actually read the topic instead of just reading title and making the rest up.

About removing local, imo not a good idea (if it just is lets remove local and keep everything the same, but thats also not really what topic is about. However the easy argument that it works in WH space is flawed. Not only are 0.0 and WH space completely different and not comparable, also in WH space you earn 2-3 times more than in 0.0 with the regular stuff.

Haraukiae Youik
Posted - 2009.12.18 12:12:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: Tista
Right.. So.. once more CCP has implimented something that annoys me off tremendously.

The issue lies in the fact that in home space.. 25 people in system.. and then 2 of which are bombers, don't get me wrong.. we all love sitting in hostile space giving intel on EVERYTHING that goes on.

But this one bothers me.

The thing with cloakers is that they can sit there ALL day.. doing nothing.. in a system 100% safe.. with 200 hostiles.. and give intel on everything, at no expense.. There is a major issue in that ratting in home systems is compramised by these little cloakers.. all it takes is for one to get in position.. and then 1 system misses some intel for what ever reason and you have people warping in bang on after a jump.

Now, I've played this game for a hell of a long time and there are only a select few issues that have bugged me to this extent, and cloakers are one of them.

6 ships.. yes 6 bombers sit in system.. waiting for anything they feel they can take down and you can't stop them.. all you can do is inform your team mates that there are bombers about.. they are rediculously powerful disruption tactics and they need a nerf.

kill the cloak, make it drop energy regen and cost energy to run.

fix it CCP get rid of the 50 alts spread about my home space.



Sounds like ninja's? We have them in hi sec, can't you handle them out there?

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.18 12:34:00 - [224]
 

Wut? That has nothing to do with ninjas at all.

Executus Primus
Caldari
Inquisitor's Lounge
Posted - 2009.12.18 13:17:00 - [225]
 

I don't think cloaking is broken (it is a valid warfare strategy) and i also think local should be removed. I don't agree however that sitting AFK in a cloaked ship 23/7 is anything but griefing. Aside from the BS, where you could argue the person should be prepared, there are also miners and industrialists who get 1-shotted by a good cloaked ship. In my opinion there should be a way to probe a ship that is afk > 4 hours or so, because at that point it is clearly not about a valid strategy anymore, but only about griefing industrialists. I think cloaked gangs that do covops cynos are pretty cool, i also think cloaked vagas that actually do something are OK. However just sitting with a SB in a system all day to prevent people from doing the "non-pvp" part of the game is really lame.

Of course you can argue that people can just move. However it is my understanding that the recent CCP move was to make regional activity more attractive. That doesn't really work well together with AFK cloakers however. Why upgrade a system to industry level 4+ if one AFK cloaker can effectively make it pointless (and no, guarding miners doesn't really prevent much in that regard). Personally i am not really affected but this, because my PVE activity is limited to occasional ratting. However i can see that it doesn't work well together with the "develop your region" idea at all.

The AFK part in cloaking should be fixed. It won't destroy the game if it doesn't get fixed. It will just prevent the game from growing how CCP apparently has envisioned it - specific 0.0 space will remain meaningless.

CAREBEARGOD
Posted - 2009.12.18 15:14:00 - [226]
 

I dont see why industrialist have to complain tbh

If they use a T1 mining barge to mine, they are making a compromise of mining in such instead of for say, a mining cruiser where you could fit a nasty tank along with mining ....

Not talkign about mining in battleship ... like it was done with decent effectiveness before barge appear (yeah apoc used to be mining king....)

When using those "Barge"for mining you chose mining effectiveness instead of survivability and that YOUR choice...

Same go for industrial, if you fill low with cargo expander, you maximise cargo instead of agility and possible tank

not talking about the T2 version that could lol at any recon for a while till reinforcement arrive, like any decent industrialist op in 0.0 should be done ...

The guys complainging about cloak/PVP admit it to yourself plz.... you are bears and dont get anything about game balance and want everything to be balanced your way ...

also /thread , no more proviblob talk plz

Oriss Amarr
Posted - 2009.12.18 17:28:00 - [227]
 

Summation of this thread: Stop Whining.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.18 17:36:00 - [228]
 

This just in, the people who want to be able to shoot reds in space are carebears.

And using mining cruisers? So what you are saying is that they should mine in high sec instead? Why not tell them to mine in a bantam and haul in an exequror.

MINERBUSTER
Posted - 2009.12.18 21:00:00 - [229]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
This just in, the people who want to be able to shoot reds in space are carebears.
Quote:


When they complain about a perfectly valid mechanic called cloaking, indeed they are carebear ... any decent pilot know a cloaker can be countered in a variety of way if they come seeking for hostilities ...

If they are afk cloaked , why should you care about a red "being" in your system .... its pretty much like if the person was log off ... You wont ask to be able to shoot log off people right?



Also , yeah using a cruiser to mine if they want to be safer , I dont TELL you to do it, I AM just assuming you made a choice of a barge for more mining effectivness ... blance only want that come with a counterpart (being vulnerability to attack ...)

YOu can indeed mine in a bantam if you want ... less effective than mining in a barge in therm of M3/h ... but if you die you lost a lot less ... see the trend ... there is always a choice possible ... right?

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.18 21:23:00 - [230]
 

Edited by: Furb Killer on 18/12/2009 21:24:13
No if they arent playing they should log off. Besides that it is a waste of electricity, it is for me also under metagaming and i hate every form of metagaming.

No one complains about cloakers, so just stop whining about that. You cant find cloakers (but imo you should be able to find afk cloakers), but it is reasonable to have pvp ships ready for a cloaker, they are also ready after all. It is unreasonable to have pvp ships ready for an afk cloaker.

And i assume your next step is that if people just use their rookie ships they wont lose anything, so that is how to deal with everything?

Roland Thorne
Minmatar
Jian Products Engineering Group
Posted - 2009.12.18 22:01:00 - [231]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Edited by: Furb Killer on 18/12/2009 21:24:13
No if they arent playing they should log off. Besides that it is a waste of electricity, it is for me also under metagaming and i hate every form of metagaming.

"No one complains about cloakers, so just stop whining about that." You cant find cloakers (but imo you should be able to find afk cloakers), but "it is reasonable to have pvp ships ready for a cloaker," they are also ready after all. It is unreasonable to have pvp ships ready for an afk cloaker.

And i assume your next step is that if people just use their rookie ships they wont lose anything, so that is how to deal with everything?


I added quote marks to better understand what you said.

Don't go overboard, and don't intentionally misunderstand by bringing up a silly thing like "rookie ships".

Originally by: Executus Primus
I don't think cloaking is broken (it is a valid warfare strategy) and i also think local should be removed. I don't agree however that sitting AFK in a cloaked ship 23/7 is anything but griefing. Aside from the BS, where you could argue the person should be prepared, there are also miners and industrialists who get 1-shotted by a good cloaked ship. In my opinion there should be a way to probe a ship that is afk > 4 hours or so, because at that point it is clearly not about a valid strategy anymore, but only about griefing industrialists. I think cloaked gangs that do covops cynos are pretty cool, i also think cloaked vagas that actually do something are OK. However just sitting with a SB in a system all day to prevent people from doing the "non-pvp" part of the game is really lame.

Of course you can argue that people can just move. However it is my understanding that the recent CCP move was to make regional activity more attractive. That doesn't really work well together with AFK cloakers however. Why upgrade a system to industry level 4+ if one AFK cloaker can effectively make it pointless (and no, guarding miners doesn't really prevent much in that regard). Personally i am not really affected but this, because my PVE activity is limited to occasional ratting. However i can see that it doesn't work well together with the "develop your region" idea at all.

The AFK part in cloaking should be fixed. It won't destroy the game if it doesn't get fixed. It will just prevent the game from growing how CCP apparently has envisioned it - specific 0.0 space will remain meaningless.


^I would say this is a much more persuasive argument. It almost even changed my mind :)

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2009.12.19 00:30:00 - [232]
 

Edited by: kessah on 19/12/2009 00:37:24
This is Guerrilla warefare imho. You alliances use local like your mothers breast. All players have agaisnt the blob at this moment are patients and the cloak.

I dont have capitals ships or 500 men to follow me to the ends of the earth, i do however have time and a cloak...

The numbers game should only help you so much. Wink

If im willing to put the time and patients into killing you, you should put the patients into defending your home.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.19 09:13:00 - [233]
 

How do those quote marks help since i didnt quote anyone?


And it has nothing to do at all with patients. If you would have bothered reading the topic, or even only my previous post, you would have read we dont have any problems with cloakers. If they hang arround it is a matter of patients. But if you go afk it has nothing at all to do with patients, how would it take you to be patient to sleep while keeping eve running? And from our side it wouldnt be patients but stupidity to wait until someone comes who is sleeping.

Sariyah
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2009.12.19 09:49:00 - [234]
 

Edited by: Sariyah on 19/12/2009 09:54:50
Half hour idle timeout.
Less lag for everyone.

Hero alts talk like isk making is optional in nullsec, well it isn't.
If I had a char in hisec to make isk and one rogue pirate alt I'd say the same.

Nina Treml
Posted - 2009.12.19 15:02:00 - [235]
 

Originally by: Tista
we all love sitting in hostile space giving intel on EVERYTHING that goes on.

But this one bothers me.




OMG OMG, Tista is bothered, to the fix-mobile!!

Grek Forto
Crosshair Corp
Posted - 2009.12.19 15:45:00 - [236]
 

Originally by: Executus Primus
However just sitting with a SB in a system all day to prevent people from doing the "non-pvp" part of the game is really lame.



How are they really preveting you from doing anything? Since they are just cloaked and can do nothing. Sure, they can provide intel but then again, they are not AFK if they are actively doing some recon.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.12.19 16:18:00 - [237]
 

Because as you know perfectly well that that SB can blast away a mining operation without any problems, let alone when there are two. And good chance before help can arrive they can blow away a ship doing anomalies and even ratting. And since you cant keep pvp ships ready 23/7 for an afk cloaker you then just would need to go to a different system, which was not really the goal of dominion.

Tagami Wasp
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.12.19 17:49:00 - [238]
 

Edited by: Tagami Wasp on 19/12/2009 17:49:39
Can you please tell me what is you want?

1) CCP to remove local so you can't see the reds and have to guess whether they are AFK, or waiting to kill you, leading to peace of mind and perceived security.
2) CCP to remove cloak because you can't handle risk and want 0.0 to be hisec safe.
3) To have been born with a spine and cohjones.

Medidranda Livoga
Posted - 2009.12.19 18:10:00 - [239]
 

Originally by: Tagami Wasp
Edited by: Tagami Wasp on 19/12/2009 17:49:39
Can you please tell me what is you want?

1) CCP to remove local so you can't see the reds and have to guess whether they are AFK, or waiting to kill you, leading to peace of mind and perceived security.
2) CCP to remove cloak because you can't handle risk and want 0.0 to be hisec safe.
3) To have been born with a spine and cohjones.


1 would be nice, 2 and 3 are you.

Clone 231B
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.12.19 19:13:00 - [240]
 

Edited by: Clone 231B on 19/12/2009 19:13:23
Originally by: Tagami Wasp
Edited by: Tagami Wasp on 19/12/2009 17:49:39
Can you please tell me what is you want?

1) CCP to remove local so you can't see the reds and have to guess whether they are AFK, or waiting to kill you, leading to peace of mind and perceived security.
2) CCP to remove cloak because you can't handle risk and want 0.0 to be hisec safe.
3) To have been born with a spine and cohjones.


Cohones? Dude all UK does is fit cloaks to everything because they have none. If you want a fight, be a man and fight.

Should you really be able to camp a gate endlessly, and then hide when you alt-spy knows of a fleet coming?

You claim Cloaking is a counter to blobs.... what is counter to cloaking?

Covert ops cloaks are fine.... the standard fit UK cloaking vaga is not.

Oh and if you remove local, remove cloaks, everything should have a counter. Thats CCP design philosophy 101


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