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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:51:00 - [151]

'The Titans primary value should be as a fleet's logistical backbone. Although this vision has not been fully realized, it continues to be the goal. They shouldn't become the ultimate choice when it comes to direct damage, a seat already occupied by Dreadnoughts'

So.. A Titan should not rival a dreadnought in firepower ?..
Well, Pwnray (OMG Laser, whatever you wanna call it) + the 500% bonus to capital guns isn't out damaging a Dread?.. well **** me..

A Titan doesnt even get the siege penalty a dread gets, and it gets a 500% gun dmg. bonus.. GJ ^^

Posted - 2009.11.19 23:52:00 - [152]


That is all for now....


Jenna Mai
People's Front Of Judea
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:52:00 - [153]

I am seriously wondering if Nozh is living in the same world we are. Cap fleet fights rarely if ever happen at close range?? I never been in a cap fleet battle that didn't!! And by bringing in the new DD but leaving out the MS hitpoint increase you have just guaranteed they will never be used I mean what nutter would take out a 15 billion isk ship that can be one shot instapopped by a Titan!! At least use SOME common sense and leave out the Titan change until you decide to buff the MS's hitpoint. I'm frankly disgusted by the lack of knowledge or foresight CCP is showing here.

Davy Vain
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:52:00 - [154]

:( Wish I didnt pay up my alt account so far.

Severion Atarkos
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:52:00 - [155]

Edited by: Severion Atarkos on 19/11/2009 23:53:44
Wow, can you backpedal any faster? Thanks for at least not ruining the ships even more then you were.

Now who are you and why are you in charge of the supercap project? You can't paint a seiged dread or supercap. The fact that you made that priceless qutoe ~Capital fights rarely happen at close range~ is an alarm to CCP that you are infact clueless and should be removed from ruining the game anymore.

Bring back sel and abathurs changes because they will actually work. Don't put off the changes for another 6-12 months. If abathurs changes don't work then just patch it and put it back to its current changes.

You took something that was very exciting and stepped on it, and now you just ****ed on it and lite it on fire.ugh

Exile Consortium
Nihilists Social Club
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:53:00 - [156]

Really, all I would ask is 150-200% hitpoint boost for moms, and 20% fighter damage per level (25% nyx) - so they would be atleast somewhat useful... instead of going "oh look titans, *pop*"

Agent Known
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:53:00 - [157]'ll have to use target painters to hit stuff with citadel torps? Last I checked TPs are e-war, and all capitals in siege/triage aside from titan/mom are


Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:53:00 - [158]

Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances.

Well of course they didn't, short range XL guns couldn't hit POSes!


Moon Kitten
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:53:00 - [159]

Keep up the good work CCP. Don't listen to all the whiners in this thread. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Posted - 2009.11.19 23:53:00 - [160]

Originally by: Xessej
Strongly suggest a roll back to the supercap designs of 3 or 4 weeks ago or delay the patch till new and improved improvements (not stealth nerfs labeled improvements) can be tested and delivered.

Roll back the whole expansion for a while, and get a complete, effective package.

Oh, and put someone who knows something about null-sec cap warfare in charge of it.

٩๏̯͡๏)۶ is pretty worried at the moment.

Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:54:00 - [161]

Originally by: Moon Kitten
Keep up the good work CCP. Don't listen to all the whiners in this thread. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

And if it is broke... oh wait

BoB Enterprises
Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:54:00 - [162]

Originally by: The Mittani

Oh, by the way, you talked about painters in your blog, Nozh. You may not know this, but you can't paint a sieged dread, mothership or Titan. Hope this helps.

Quoting Goonswarm!

Can I ask the devs working on capital balancing to go and do some homework and work out BASIC capital ship mechanics.
Only thing on a capital battlefield that could be painted is a carrier (lets assume the dreads are seiged when they are shooting other capitals ok?) and carriers are the minority on the modern capital battlefield so this entire thing of "needing" to use painters to make Citadel Torpedos effective is completely ridiculous.

Natas Ignis
Bene Dominus Knights
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:54:00 - [163]

Not that anyone is likely to read this at the rate this thread is building, but my impression is that a high group in ccp has decided they don't like the entire idea of tier 2 carriers, and so they started looking at going in a different direction.

Sure, from our point of view it looks random and messy, but to them it could be as simple as a single board meeting.

I don't like this wishy washy-ness any better than anyone else, but i do think that ccp is trying to do what is best for the game, but also trying to keep it congruent with their ideal of things.

Also to throw something at people *****ing about the XL gun changes, remember that they made short range guns BETTER. I think if you re-read what they were typing about (like the now infamous short range cap fight comment) its likely they were implying that people don't use short range GUNS in cap fights, they always fit the long range guns. They fixed that, so I fail to see what the issue is there.

Missiles though are a problem, on Battleship hulls torps work because you can target paint your targets. Without that capability, XL torps will fail.

Using bad missile changes before tests as the basis for the naglfar nurf is a bad idea.

----To long, so to recap ----

-CCP loves eve, even when they drop the ball.

-tier 2 carriers not what they intended.

-XL guns, especially short range ones better now, so stop *****ing about the way he phrased the comment

-XL missiles, bad idea

-leave the naglfar alone

-MoM ehp boost of like 30-40% in the mean time is a good idea

-if you read this, you are either angry or bored.

John Zorg
The Damned Legion
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:54:00 - [164]

I better get reimbursed if I lose my "Super Mothership" to a Double Titan Doomsday. You guys had great changes to start with and now you guys pull out of it? What is this game really for you developers??? It's all about the money clearly. Us players that have reached end game just get skrewed over time and again.


Posted - 2009.11.19 23:55:00 - [165]

Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Nozh: Does marketing know that you're ****ing up all their good work with your terrible posting?
seriously the marketing division of ccp should go start their own company called 'the not-****ty part of ccp, ltd.' theyd be a smashadillo

Slapdash McGinty
Pronger Physics Research Dept.
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:55:00 - [166]

٩๏̯͡๏)۶ says that he doesn't approve of these changes as his mothership pilot will have to go back to his carrier if he wants to do anything.

Frankly I think he plays too much EVE but I'm not going to disagree with him on this.

Jackson Brown
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:55:00 - [167]

I really like the XL turrent changes as well as the new citadel cruise and torp changes. Can't say I care about Motherships either way. Laughing

Katsura Kotonoha
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:55:00 - [168]

This means NO CHANGES WILL BE MADE IN DOMINION. Since they are part of the original rebalancing effort, the DEPLOYMENT OF ALL IDEAS WILL BE POSTPONED.


Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:55:00 - [169]

Edited by: kossaw on 19/11/2009 23:58:04
However, we are going to continue refining their schematics, keep our welding torches hot and you should see them undocking from the shipyards again once we and the community are happy with their balancing.

The community and the original CCP designers were perfectly happy with the proposed S-C changes so this statement makes no sense.

Just delete this dev blog instead and put S-C's back they way they were on SiSi 3 weeks ago

Edit: spelling. I'm just so emo that I can't even get these few words right Rolling Eyes

DeTox MinRohim
Madhatters Inc.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:56:00 - [170]

Little dude says...

٩๏̯͡๏)۶ "Oups?"

Bad mom -> Good mom -> Fail Mom -> Bad mom...

So hum... When is the "Good mom" coming back?

Katerina M
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:56:00 - [171]

Excellent changes to motherships, how many LPs to get one Nozh?

Serena Ku
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:56:00 - [172]

Oh about the statement "capital fights rarely if ever happen at short range", I think someone watched one too many "picture perfect" EVE battle movies and not actual in-game capital fights.

Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:56:00 - [173]

Originally by: Mikel Banks
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:52:00 - [169] - Quote
stop deleting the little guy ٩๏̯͡๏)۶

We are telling you the changes are bad, you should take heed and listen. Shredding the comment box is not exactly customer service

Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:57:00 - [174]

Edited by: Hertford on 20/11/2009 00:03:41
Originally by: The Mittani

Oh, by the way, you talked about painters in your blog, Nozh. You may not know this, but you can't paint a sieged dread, mothership or Titan. Hope this helps.

In case you just go around deleting posts without reading them, I've used a yellow Target Painter in the vain hope one of your game design team reads that sentence before the happens.

Sertan Deras
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:58:00 - [175]

Originally by: Agent Known'll have to use target painters to hit stuff with citadel torps? Last I checked TPs are e-war, and all capitals in siege/triage aside from titan/mom are


Hey, hey. Watch it now mister. Bringing up the actual facts of how the game plays is not on topic, or constructive. If Nozh tells us cap fights never happen at closer range, and super caps + sieged/traiged caps can be target painted, it's because it's true.

Hatsumi Kobayashi
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:58:00 - [176]

With the only welcome features being the removal of the AoE doomsday and the faction ship boost, i'm amazed you can even refer to Dominion as an expansion.

Nongbong Fongrong
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:59:00 - [177]

٩๏̯͡๏)۶ this little dude does not agree with these changes one bit and neither do I

Posted - 2009.11.20 00:00:00 - [178]

Originally by: Nongbong Fongrong
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ this little dude does not agree with these changes one bit and neither do I

Could that be cause ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ has seen more actual cap-fleet action than the person currently making a hash of the whole thing?

Moon Kitten
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:01:00 - [179]

Edited by: Moon Kitten on 20/11/2009 00:04:06
If the choice is between mother ships with 60 million hp that could play undock games and mother ships remaining the same no change is the better alternative. Lets not repeat the mistake of adding something as unbalanced as remote cyno doomsday titans again. You know in your heart of hearts that I'm right.

CCP Nozh, stay strong you've made the right decision.

Manfred Rickenbocker
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:01:00 - [180]

Ok, looking at the damage graphs for long range weapons, you nerfed Rails a bit too much:

1) The damage nerf was too much compared to Giga-Lasers. You lack factoring in that hybrid weapons have to reload. While good for short engagements, capital engagements rarely are, so the current difference is rendered moot. Give them back their damage.

2) You nerfed their range by 10km (101 to 91) while leaving Giga-Lasers at their 121km optimal. This is BAD. If we switch to longer-range ammo to reach targets on the battlefield, the damage advantage is destroyed more so than we gain in range. (I wont discuss projectiles because Ill leave this for the last point).

3) The falloff on Rails matches Beams... this is BAD. Rails always have more falloff than Lasers. Rails are supposed to be the longest range option which is now heartily stolen by projectiles. Rails Optimal + Falloff should be greater than that of the Beams Optimal + Falloff, even if damage get lower quicker.

4) Under no circumstances does it seem like you should use something other than Projectiles now in long range combat. DREADS CANT MOVE IN SIEGE! If you are outside your range, tough nuts because you cant reposition for 15 minutes. And if the sides decide to go for a super-long-range battle, the only competitive weapons will be Projectiles. Even Cruises cant hit past 150 in the new system (baseline values). If you position your dread fleet before a fleet of Naggles, they will just sit outside range AND outdamage you at that range, giving them 15 minutes of free shooting at you. This is stupid and overpowered.

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