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stockeater
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:08:00 - [1381]
 

As a moros pilot I'm kinda glad that supercarriers won't be all powerful dread killers yet, and quite happy to hear tracking is better in siege mode. Now I might just be able to hit a sniper bs in siege.
Just worried what use my nearly 2 bill ship will have- unless the sov bunkers are ridiculously hard I get the feeling that dreads are a ship class that will die out.

Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:09:00 - [1382]
 

Edited by: Ralph42nd on 21/11/2009 01:10:00
You know it has been said many times since your "update", why not roll out the changes we have been promised and tweak from there. Historically you haven't done this? Remote DD anyone? Rolling Eyes

Roll out the changes you have promised, if it breaks the game fix it afterwards (like you have always done in the past). Or you could just keep ignoring and deleting us, failing to delivery what you promised, blemish your own good name, sully your reputation, earn the ire of hundreds and thousands of your customers, and millions viewing this debacle on the internet. Ultimately doing what it is you have always done, extending your middle finger to those who you claim matter most to you, your customers.

We tried to give you reason, we tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and you have consistently failed to deliver on your end. Your game continues to be shoddy and bug ridden, performance impaired and lousy by most acceptable standards.

You view your end-game content as a burden, and those who play it to be expendable. You are willing to lie to your customers to attempt to save face and only make matters worse for yourselves. You claim that you have learned over the years and at the first opportunity to show us how much you have grown over the years you reverted immediately to your past failed ways.

This NGE patch was once looked at by the populace of Eve Online to be the great savior of a dying game. A last cling to hope that maybe the game will be fun and exciting again, and in jest it is not. It will be an incomplete, half assed patch.

Quote:
MMORPG.com:
What are three parts to Dominion you are most proud of?
Noah Ward:
Visually the planets are just amazing. The landscape of EVE will be drastically improved when they come in. As the planets started showing up in space on the internal dev server the buzz around the office was overwhelming. There were e-mail threads with screenshots and subject titles like "HAVE YOU SEEN THIS? NEW PLANETS!" So that's one thing we're really proud of.


If this is the only thing we have to look forward to after months of trumpeting Dominion as the baby jesus of eve online, then you sir have failed us. You have failed yourself, your company and your customers new and old.

I cannot convey any further in polite terms just how sickening this entire situation has been to view as a customer. CCP Nozh, I would like to apologize to you for some of the hurtful things I may have (or may not have, syke, it was all deleted anyway) said about you. You truly do not deserve your job as a developer, however you would have been fired at greater companies. Companies with a future would not have backed you up, they would have packed you up and sent you out the door. Since the company that currently employs you has clearly no regard for it's potential future, you deserve your place at that failed company.

CCP Hammerhead, I said some pretty mean things to you and took them back when I heard you were a pretty chill dude. Turns out I was right in the first place, you too are deserving of your place at a failing company. Your attempt at damage control would be a failure if published by an elementary school news paper. You are passionate to be surrounded by people who have clearly no knowledge of what they are working on, and are willing to publish a post saying as much.

We have gone through the effort in the past two days to illustrate to you just what we actually want done with the changes you feel we don't like (by proxy, your not happy with them). You have refused to listen. You have deleted hundreds of posts saying exactly in one united voice what we have wanted.

Thank you for not listening. Thank you for making Dominion EVE's NGE.

POST 1387 PAGE 47 (not that it is going to stay this way)

slothe
Caldari
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:11:00 - [1383]
 

please just make sure you do remove the AOE weapon from the titans

Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:12:00 - [1384]
 

Edited by: Isil Rahsen on 21/11/2009 01:12:57
Originally by: stockeater
As a moros pilot I'm kinda glad that supercarriers won't be all powerful dread killers yet, and quite happy to hear tracking is better in siege mode. Now I might just be able to hit a sniper bs in siege.
Just worried what use my nearly 2 bill ship will have- unless the sov bunkers are ridiculously hard I get the feeling that dreads are a ship class that will die out.

I'm really beginning to think that this is the point of the Dread changes. All but the Rev will be receiving a serious nerf in one form or another and any dissenting opinions immediately get quelled by post deletion or purely ignoring all posts relating to them. So far 5 of my posts dissenting over capital weapons and the Naglfar nerf imparticular have all been deleted.
Post [1389] Free Abathur

William Pierce
Caldari
Zor Industries
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:18:00 - [1385]
 

Edited by: William Pierce on 21/11/2009 01:20:14
Quote:
which means target painters will have to be utilized in many situations to achieve full damage potential.


Nozh, you are so ****ing dumb it makes me want to kill myself. DREADS IN SIEGE AND POS STRUCTURES ARE IMMUNE TO TARGET PAINTERS!

Also, TITANS CAN NOW KILL MOTHERSHIPS IN 1 SHOT. THAT IS 15 BIL DESTROYED IN THE CLICK OF A BUTTON!

CCP, get your heads out of your collective asses!

iP0D
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:19:00 - [1386]
 

Edited by: iP0D on 21/11/2009 01:21:10
Edited by: iP0D on 21/11/2009 01:18:57
[1391]
EVE has seen its share of emo threads and drama, especially in times of change. But I have to admit that these circumstances are rather easy to understand to cause concern. After all, it is not just the hard nurtured stakeholder relationship for the topics of changes that is at stake, but the very functioning of CCP's adoption of SCRUM for future ventures.

Got to say, the moderation has reached a point where it is akin to shooting yourself in the foot. I know that probably by tomorrow or the day after we will start to see the magic unstickying and quite possibly the moving back and forth of the thread to a secluded section of the forums to crack down on visibility and thus exposure, but my god, seriously guys ... there is a real tangible point where matters become counterproductive.

I'm not referring to the silly posts, or those made in frustration. But to the multitude of constructive posts deleted. I for example do not understand how a post containing a highly complex effort to replicate XL turret scenarios warrants deletion. Or a post highlighting Sprint interactions in light of developer statements. Is it maybe time to take a step back?

Changing capital and supercapital ship roles was a very complicated and long process, a lot of communicative effort went in to it from all sides, not to mention the willingness of players to take changes at face value for the betterment of an EVE that had grown stale and frustrating.
But instead of the oh so hard achieved changes, we are left with a kneejerk crackdown of processes which effectively throws (once more) trust and results out of the window.

Of all possible courses of actions, you have picked the worst possible actions. Even if an entire developer team suddenly, after those claimed 18 months of developments, decides to be unhappy, it still has to deal with stakeholder churns. Especially in the light of deadlines it is far, far easier and far more productive and rewarding to commercial interests to take things one step at a time without kneejerking and breaking the curve.

Honest point to point and relentless communication, similar to what has taken place these past few months in focus of the announced and planned changes, is the only way to avoid setting yet another precedent of, I hate to use the word, failure - or even the perception thereof.

This is not the time to fall back into the kneejerking of the past. The effort has paid off. And even if in some places things run into the potential of player driven excess, it remains more productive and easier to monitor and tweak during the evolution of the game as it happens.

Stratio
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Damu'Khonde
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:19:00 - [1387]
 

47 pages of replies in just over 24h, I think that says a lot about the strength of feeling.

Also, we really need a way to find out which of the 47 pages contains dev responses. Would it not be possible to colour code the page links along the top?

Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:19:00 - [1388]
 

SiSi may be a testing bed and nothing is final but when you have been testing with the players and informing them of your changes so they can actually help out then suddenly go make a ton of major changes without even mentioning them just seeming to hope they wont be noticed you are bound to cause issues. As others have said you have still not addressed the concerns with nag/phoenix and saying that nozh is the messenger for a larger bunch of people is hardly going to fill us with confidence when you see some of the contradictory remarks he has made and the ones which also either dont make sense or actually are just plain wrong.

John MacCoy
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:20:00 - [1389]
 

Edited by: John MacCoy on 21/11/2009 01:19:58
Okay, here one very simple question that needing answered:

WILL CCP ALEAST GIVE A MOTHERSHIP A HP BUFF SO IT CAN SURVIVE THE NEW TITAN DD?

Thats the only question I want answered right now. One simple question. It's not hard.

Page 47
Post 1394

Dante Edmundo
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:21:00 - [1390]
 

Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 21/11/2009 01:54:18

Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone


We have been carefully watching this thread and I want to set the record straight on a few misconceptions.

........

You all made your voices clear with important feedback, we listened and reverted things back to like they are on TQ while we take more time to reassess. We could have tried to put out ďsomethingĒ just because we have been talking about it, but then we would be in a situation where players are getting into ships that might very well change again in a coming patch. Given the amount of work to get one of these we just didnít feel that was the right thing to do.


The other misconception I want to address is about our public test server. SISI is there so we can have as many people as possible looking for bugs. We think it best to put things out in the public as soon as possible regardless of whether or not itís final so we get more eyes on it. This just makes sense to us from a QA standpoint because EVE is an extremely complex piece of software. SISI isnít really meant to be a place to try new fittings, do FFA battles or preview upcoming features, although we know people use it for that and we really donít mind because more load on our test server helps us find bugs. Itís also not a guarantee as to what will be in the next expansion. There have been plenty of times when we dropped a feature that was partially complete on SISI. Arenas and storefronts are two recent examples. Itís highly probable that we like pulling features from a release even less than you do but sometimes it cannot be helped. So while supercarriers were on the test server and had gone through plenty of testing it still wasnít guaranteed to end up on TQ in that exact state. Only what lands on TQ on patch day is guaranteed.


Please remember that we are here to make a game that you all love to play. None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase. As the Lead Game Designer, I take my responsibility seriously and that includes taking responsibility for any decisions made by our team. To me, EVE is much more than a job, itís something Iím passionate about constantly improving. I promise you I want EVE to thrive just as much as you do.


Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer


Dude - Hammerhead - with all due respect, this has gone way beyond an issue of refining or making MOM's better. You have an outraged player base - including some extremely seasoned veterans.

If you actually do nothing with MOMs now, given the huge expectations and promises you guys made - and make players wait another 6 months for a supposedly "perfect" change - you are just creating worst animosity and disappointment with Eve players - especially the vets.

Release the dang changes that everyone was relatively happy with after working with CCP Abathur. Clearly this is what 80% of the players posting a response on this thread would like to happen. FORGET THIS HYPOTHETICAL PERFECT MOM DESIGN RELEASE. You'll never have a perfect MOM release. Release something - don't just do nothing. The "doing Nothing" solution is EVEN WORSE at this point. If problems exist that are glaringly deficient, than make changes in a month or two. EVE WILL SURVIVE.



Eben Rochelle
Gallente
RPS holdings
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:31:00 - [1391]
 

Nuts to MOM's fix the Sov changes/Dreads. I cant believe your nerfing a shipclass that is being made pretty much redundant anyway!

Naglfar... nuff said.

Please correct me if im wrong but it seems to me that systems with more stargates in are harder to assault than say one with only 2 in as you have to have these blocker thingies (technical term) on all gates? So instead of Arbitrary Moon numbers were down to arbitrary gate numbers. Not to mention crazy timers and having to 23/x lockdown a sys so your blocker thingies dont get hit O_o.

2 years in the making guys, 2 YEARS!

Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:36:00 - [1392]
 

someone call internet jesse jackson my posting civil rights are being violated

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:37:00 - [1393]
 

Deleting post???

Geeeeez way to ruin the game I love.

Innominate
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:45:00 - [1394]
 

Edited by: Innominate on 21/11/2009 01:45:56

When first announced dominion was full of great ideas and well thought out updates and changes. Revamped supercaps, no more aoe doomsday, revitalized 0.0. Yet, one by one the good ideas have been scrapped as being "hard". What we're left with is a series of poorly thought out near-random changes which appear to be nothing but change for the sake of change(and pretty planets!) Many of the changes being made depend on other dominion changes in order to work, yet the changes they depend on have been scrapped. Increased cost of holding sov vs no meaningful additions to 0.0 income. 15 billion isk motherships vulnerable to being instapoped by the new titans. etc.

We're less than two weeks from the planned release date and it's clear CCP doesn't even know what they're trying to accomplish with dominion, let alone how to do it.

1401.

Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Nihil-Obstat
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:46:00 - [1395]
 

Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone

We have been carefully watching this thread and I want to set the record straight on a few misconceptions.

First, Iíd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itís a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking. We want the game to be balanced and fun for everyone to play. We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.

Nozh is the one talking about using target painters on sieged dreads and supercaps, and using several DCUs on supercarriers/motherships/whatever, which nobody does or ever would do. He's also posting graphs and other numbers which are just far removed from being realistic to your game mechanics. So please tell us, is this something you, AS A TEAM, unilaterally agree with, and have come to this concensus about AS A TEAM, with Nozh being your mouthpiece? If ALL OF YOU are using this silly thought process like attempting to use target painters on sieged dreads and the like, I really do fear for the future of this game, because this unequivocally proves just how out of touch with the way this game is ACTUALLY PLAYED that you really all are. Or are you lying through your teeth, and Nozh IS actually the one responsible.

Either way, the answer frightens the hell out of me.

Quote:
We werenít entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenít falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnít clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.

Did you really feel that they were THAT overpowered? Because I'm just not seeing that as the case. You guys got plenty of feedback about this, and I don't think there was this outcry of "ZOMG SUPERCARRIERS ARE OVERPOWERED!!!!!!one!!!eleven!!! NERF NERF!!!"

And further, did you SERIOUSLY think - ESPECIALLY after *that* thought process, that Nozh's proposed changes were ANY BIT BETTER... in ANY way, shape, or form? Least of all throwing them in at virtually the 11th hour - after the PREVIOUS (Abathur's) changes were tested for TWO MONTHS and seemed FINE?

Quote:
You all made your voices clear with important feedback, we listened and reverted things back to like they are on TQ while we take more time to reassess. We could have tried to put out ďsomethingĒ just because we have been talking about it, but then we would be in a situation where players are getting into ships that might very well change again in a coming patch. Given the amount of work to get one of these we just didnít feel that was the right thing to do.

Okay, seriously? DID you listen? Because I can't see how you can POSSIBLY think that you did. Take, for example, the Naglfar. How on earth is it that you had people telling you ENDLESSLY how broken this ship was, and how, exactly, to fix it (reasonably! - not overpowered!) And FINALLY it seems as though you were putting in some nice changes to this ship... ONLY TO COMPLETELY SCRAP THE WHOLE PLANS and put the ship RIGHT BACK to a completely broken split weapon system with horrible bonuses. Did you feel that ship ship was now overpowered, too? If so, please explain how.

I don't understand how you think that you ARE listening to the feedback of your customers, when you pull stuff like this - especially without explaining why. (continued)

T'Karr
Minmatar
Trojan Trolls
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:46:00 - [1396]
 

CCP Hammer: we dont want an explanation for the Nag being nerfed again, and the Moms being nerfed (Because that is what happening... buffering the titan so it can close-to instapop a mom, and making dreads more effective from close range. thats not what a Mom pilot wants to hear...). All we want is the SENSIBLE changes to be made, we dont want to go backwards, we want the Nag to stay inline with the other dreads, and we want Moms to be credible useable ships in cap fights. You were closer than you have ever been with Abathurs ideas on the moms and the patches you rolled out on Sisi, they were great, and we loved them! You claim they will be overpowered, but give those poor mom pilots SOMETHING (they spend a lot of isk on useless ships) because at the moment they are still sitting in pointless unusable ships .

The Dev blogs are so contradictory and the fan fest videos contradict everything in the latest dev blog... We dont need an explanation, we just need thoughtfull sensible action... Lets go back to Abathurs ideas.

p.s. I dont even fly capitals or have the skills.... its just complete common sense.

Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:46:00 - [1397]
 

Edited by: Kenpachi Viktor on 21/11/2009 01:47:52
Originally by: CCP Nozh

...
Every ship needs its niche, a specialized role at which it excels without too much overlap from its closest relatives.
...
We aren't happier with the direction we were taking them as anti-capital Supercarriers.
...
The Titans primary value should be as a fleet's logistical backbone.


The biggest reason I see as why this is not working is:

You have your roles mixed up for the Supercapitals


The Titan does OMGWTFBBQ damage.
The Mothership (Supercarrier) has RR and gang links

And you were trying to have the Mom as anti cap, and the Titan as logistics?!?

Make the Titan the anti-capital supercapital.

Make the Supercarrier the fleet's logistical backbone. Flagship anyone?



Swap the fleet bonus from the Titan, to the Supercarrier.
Buff their HP to what they were going to be under Abathur's changes
Keep the clone vat on the Supercarrier.
Keep the Fighter numbers the same, but limit the bombers via bandwidth.
Increase the damage output of titans non DD weaponds; at lest 1.5 times a dread, before you add on the DD's damage.
Increase the signature radius on both so there is minimal damage reduction on them, as they can't be target painted. (How would anything not get a good hit on something so massively huge?)
A new set of gang-assist modules only fit-able to Supercariers, one of each type: Armored; Information; Siege; & Skirmish
Etc.

Edit 1404

Elsa Nietzsche
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:48:00 - [1398]
 

Edited by: Elsa Nietzsche on 21/11/2009 01:58:29
wrote a nice well thought out post and the forums at it. guess they're still actively deleting posts...

short version is, ccp doesn't have a plan. when you have a plan you stick to it and address issues as they come up. changing your mind right before launch on what you think cap ships should be is pathetic. the reality is no matter what plan you pick, if you focus on it and put effort into making it awesome, guess what, it'll be awesome. this backpedaling **** does nothing but frustrate the users, make the game unplayable, and shows how CCP, while having the best intentions, lacks organizational maturity and leadership.

go back to the drawing board. come up with a plan. flesh it out with your staff. develop it, nurture it, then bring it to us for feedback. we'll tell you how to make it fun. then implement it.

maybe you guys learned from banking eh? seen the commercials where the guy promises something and then fails to deliver?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHBRGOScyZY

Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Nihil-Obstat
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:51:00 - [1399]
 

Edited by: Toman Torax on 21/11/2009 01:57:51
Quote:
The other misconception I want to address is about our public test server. SISI is there so we can have as many people as possible looking for bugs. We think it best to put things out in the public as soon as possible regardless of whether or not itís final so we get more eyes on it. This just makes sense to us from a QA standpoint because EVE is an extremely complex piece of software. SISI isnít really meant to be a place to try new fittings, do FFA battles or preview upcoming features, although we know people use it for that and we really donít mind because more load on our test server helps us find bugs. Itís also not a guarantee as to what will be in the next expansion. There have been plenty of times when we dropped a feature that was partially complete on SISI. Arenas and storefronts are two recent examples. Itís highly probable that we like pulling features from a release even less than you do but sometimes it cannot be helped. So while supercarriers were on the test server and had gone through plenty of testing it still wasnít guaranteed to end up on TQ in that exact state. Only what lands on TQ on patch day is guaranteed.

Okay, lets ignore for a moment the rest of your rabble about FFA battles, testing new fittings, and all of the other junk - because I agree that isn't what sisi is for. But the fact of the matter is, sisi has become MORE than just a "bughunting" server. You DO receive (and USE!) feedback that we give you as a result of testing on sisi. And obviously, there ISN'T a guarantee that something which is tested on sisi will make its way to TQ. But what doesn't make any sense is how something which IS tested, and generally accepted as being fair and balanced, is suddenly scrapped completely, leaving you right back at the drawing board once again. You need to be a lot more verbose about WHY you think things aren't balanced. Vague statements don't cut it, because you just come off as sounding like you're completely out of touch with how the game is actually played - beyond numbers and stats and graphs and spreadhseets. Remember, YOUR Dev team thinks that target painters are a good way to increase damage on a sieged dread! HTFU and provide REASONS and ANSWERS as to why YOU think changes which your playerbase seems to find acceptible won't work.

Quote:
Please remember that we are here to make a game that you all love to play. None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase.

If this is true then PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT LET NOZH POST ANYMORE! All he is doing is enraging the playerbase! How many COUNTLESS posts, page after page after page (most of which are being deleted) do you need to get this through your thick skulls?

Quote:
As the Lead Game Designer, I take my responsibility seriously and that includes taking responsibility for any decisions made by our team. To me, EVE is much more than a job, itís something Iím passionate about constantly improving. I promise you I want EVE to thrive just as much as you do.

And if THIS is true, then PLEASE pull your heads out of your asses and don't make ANY more statements like "oh just use a taget painter on a sieged dread and everything will be hunky dory" EVER AGAIN. If you want ANY creditibility NOW or in the future, NOTHING like this should ever be written as a representation of a professional company running a business which pulls in millions in revenue every month.

And you guys need to start listening as well.

You have a lot of tough decisions to make, now - one of which should be delaying this patch until it's done right. If you're serious about being passionate about actually improving this game, delaying the patch should be a no-brainer, because it's just not ready.

Right now your company is teetering on the edge of pulling a blunder of SOE NGE epic proportions. I really love this game, have been playing it for years, and do not want to see that happen. Please don't let it happen.

Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:51:00 - [1400]
 

Originally by: CCP Hammer

They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0.


Irony overload from people who released "Doomsday thru a cyno".

Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:52:00 - [1401]
 

Originally by: Kenpachi Viktor
Edited by: Kenpachi Viktor on 21/11/2009 01:47:52
Originally by: CCP Nozh

...
Every ship needs its niche, a specialized role at which it excels without too much overlap from its closest relatives.
...
We aren't happier with the direction we were taking them as anti-capital Supercarriers.
...
The Titans primary value should be as a fleet's logistical backbone.


The biggest reason I see as why this is not working is:

You have your roles mixed up for the Supercapitals


The Titan does OMGWTFBBQ damage.
The Mothership (Supercarrier) has RR and gang links

And you were trying to have the Mom as anti cap, and the Titan as logistics?!?

Make the Titan the anti-capital supercapital.

Make the Supercarrier the fleet's logistical backbone. Flagship anyone?



Swap the fleet bonus from the Titan, to the Supercarrier.
Buff their HP to what they were going to be under Abathur's changes
Keep the clone vat on the Supercarrier.
Keep the Fighter numbers the same, but limit the bombers via bandwidth.
Increase the damage output of titans non DD weaponds; at lest 1.5 times a dread, before you add on the DD's damage.
Increase the signature radius on both so there is minimal damage reduction on them, as they can't be target painted. (How would anything not get a good hit on something so massively huge?)
A new set of gang-assist modules only fit-able to Supercariers, one of each type: Armored; Information; Siege; & Skirmish
Etc.

Edit 1404

I disagree with your proposed role for Titans. Turning them into glorified superdreads that can pop their dd wad on a single ship every 10 minutes with no other role seems daft for a 60bil ship. Their fleet bonuses give them something else to do when waiting between doomsdays.

Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:53:00 - [1402]
 

Originally by: Sannye
Get rid of the insane nerfs to Nag AND remove the citadel cruise missiles. No, dont rebalance them, remove them alltogeather - out, away. Then work on how to balance missiles and guns in capital warfare, because as they are, missiles are very very underpowered due to traveltime(delayed dps), explotion velocity (nothing moving will ever take full damage), explotion radius (noting less sized than a moon takes full damage).

The solution to the above is NOT TARGETPAINTERS - but a much better thought through missile delevery system.

How you do that i leave to you - but to claim any E-war will help torps give damage is utter fail.

Innominate
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.21 01:54:00 - [1403]
 

Originally by: Toman Torax
Remember, YOUR Dev team things that target painters are a good way to increase damage on a sieged dread!


I think all 47 pages of *****ing can be boiled down to this one line.

Misaki Yuuko
Caldari
Posted - 2009.11.21 02:01:00 - [1404]
 

Edited by: Misaki Yuuko on 21/11/2009 02:03:06
Originally by: CCP Nozh

The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.


Which? Titans which are not going to be fielded because they are huge useless pile of scrapmetal that costs 80 bill. or a 16 bill. mothership which is even more useless because: destructable weapons by SB or support fleets and you are going to nerf their HP to oblivion.

No, wait: POS mods & towers... which you can't TP. Oh maybe the new IHUBS, outpost and all the new sov parafernalia (unimaginative, but that's an other topic). But they are going to be useless against other capitals: not only delayed damage, but less than guns.

And yes, lets nerd again the failgar because it can be competitive, it's minmatar after all.

Please, START PLAYING YOUR OWN GAME AND STOP THE SPREEDSHEET BULL****.

Quote:

To illustrate how it would have worked with Fighter Bombers, you can take a look at these graphs:


And what's the problem of a 16 bill ship with DESTRUCTABLE weapon systems and that you need to ahve ON THE FIELD to do damage doing the damage of a couple of dreads. And what's the problem of 80 bill titans (which you need to have on the field) doing the damage of 3 dreads, when you need to have them on the field.

See, this is what happens: you don't have a slightless clue of how fights gop and why people acts as they do: if price was so unimportant (specially after moongoo nerf and increaseddifficulty of defending capital arrays) you would see fleets of titans fielded daily without care, yet the only problem with titans was doomsdaying under cynojammer. This is an example of why you MUST play the fekin game to balance that stuff.

Quote:
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."


And people won't fit short range guns with these changes anyway, because if soemone hotdrops ytou at 100km you are ****ed. This fixes absoluttly nothing.


Quote:
"Docking games"

We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.


Fix the dame docking range and station exists, add variable docking timers per class. There you go, wasn't so hard.

Quote:
"Titans"

As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.


So cool, buying an huge pile of crapp for 80 bill for nothing, and anyway, how long until the fixes, an other couple of years? Then with your excellent SCRUM & AGILE methods (hint: you can't use that for every feature, like you don't for CORE development) you will get a halfassed solution in 2 weeks which you will change in the last minute... sounds familar.

PriestWithKnives
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.21 02:08:00 - [1405]
 

Since nozh was a messenger and has no idea about capitals or much of anything dealing with them and this was instead a message from the whole ccp team; was it the whole team at ccp that was telling nozh target painters on a pheonix and dockable motherships were where it's at and letting everyone know the proposed and worked out changed for the last month are now nothing?

Hammerhead put a better spin on this, with all the mass deleted posts and nonsense being posted by ccp, I'm wondering why I give you guys money at this point and just how much like swg this whole mess is going to end up like.

Moon Kitten
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.21 02:09:00 - [1406]
 

Why do you hate mothership pilots? Is it because Seleene used to fly one?

Kraken Kill
Menace ll Society
Posted - 2009.11.21 02:09:00 - [1407]
 

CURRENTLY on SISI Motherships STILL retain the HP BUFF and INCREASE JUMP RANGE. They Currenly have the OLD STYLE Bonuses (vat bay, triage, gang mods, remote rep bonus hel).

When you say you wont be doing ANY changes to motherships do you mean you wont be changing the bonuses but the Ships will still retain the Jump range and HP buff?

Please Confirm this? Please Clarify the poorly presented info in the blog.

Kayl Breinhar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.21 02:11:00 - [1408]
 

If this "rush to release" mentality is because of Star Trek Online, you are aware it's effectively WoW in Space and there's no penalty for ship loss except "minor system damage," right? There's no need to rush anything into EVE because of another spaceship MMO now having a hard publication date. The analogy's been beaten to death, stuffed, and mounted, but SWG did that because of FFXI and it was the bullet in the kneecaps for the game (the NGE was the headshot).

Ammath
Amarr
Burning Technologies
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.11.21 02:11:00 - [1409]
 

Edited by: Ammath on 21/11/2009 02:15:36
CCP Doesn't care about CAP people....
CCP Doesn't care about CAP people....
CCP Doesn't care about CAP people....

From the MMORPG Article:
"Noah Ward:
Unlike most other MMORPGs, with EVE we try to give every class of ship a clear role. It's not a simple game of bigger is better. It's more like a complex and nuanced game of Rock/Paper/Scissors. Unfortunately the poor Supercarrier (previously known as Mothership) never had a clear role much like the lion in Wizard of Oz didn't have a heart. They occupy a space between the massive Titans and the more ubiquitous Carrier class of ship without really standing out on their own. We wanted to improve this situation, find their true role and make them something pilots would be proud to fly; enter Fighter Bombers. Fighter Bombers are anti-capital weapons that launch big dumb warheads that do a lot of damage but have trouble hitting the broad side of a battleship. We like the direction things are heading and the models look damn cool but we're still not 100% sure the changes are achieving what we want to achieve. This is why the changes to Motherships/Supercarriers are being deferred and won't go out in Dominion 1.0. We're going to continue to play test both internally and on our public test servers. We're going to continue to talk to players. We're going to follow the yellow brick road and we're going to find the unique role these ships fill which will hopefully make the largest number of people happy."

Oh Really??? But for the short term you refuse to fix the obvious but not overpowering issues with them. Hitpoint and Jump Range... If you just put those in we could at least appreciate that you want to work the issue out more... but letting them be 16bn isk Pinatas full of Officer Goodness is just goofy man..

Crap at least let us dock moms then until its fixed so we can get our alts back to do something useful..



Li Na
Posted - 2009.11.21 02:12:00 - [1410]
 

Why not instead of a damage bonus for the titans DD per level make it a time reduction for refire rate or activation time. Make them train for the extra refire rate speed its not like it needs more damage.


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