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H Zebra
Zebra Corp
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:36:00 - [1201]
 

Edited by: H Zebra on 20/11/2009 21:36:54
post 1230 wonder if it stays.

dont like what your doing with capitals, like what your doing to your customers even less

Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:37:00 - [1202]
 

Posts gone, pages gone.

GIVE MOTHERSHIPS THE HP BUFF

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:38:00 - [1203]
 

In my opinion it would be best to completely rollback ALL changes on the capital + supercapital ships.

Then give it 4 weeks intense love (without Nozh please!) and then implement the new stuff on 1.1.2010

Shouldn't be too difficult since most if not all good changes are already done by Abathur and the community. The 4 weeks should be enough then to iron out the last remaining flaws and polish it up so that it can really shine.


The current changes are just a heap of inconsitant crap which is thrown together without any knowledge about the game mechanics and actual gameplay.


What can you lose by delaying a bad change to the worse? Nothing. You can only win! If you cannot find a proper solution within those 4 weeks, you can still implement the current iteration and you still have nothing lost except 4 weeks. But you can gain so much more!

And if you continue with the current changes? What can you win? Nothing really. The changes are bad and would need to be changed soon afterwards anyway. But what can you lose? Lots and lots of reputation and your most loyal and hardcore players.


Is it really worth it? I doubt so.

Shankymcstab
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:40:00 - [1204]
 

I have 3 accounts. After dominion, I will have 1.

0oO0oOoOo0o
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:40:00 - [1205]
 

Edited by: 0oO0oOoOo0o on 20/11/2009 21:41:48
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: CCP Nozh
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.



This makes absolutely no sense. Entering siege/triage does NOT increase the amount of damage you take, unless you have added a signature radius multiplier to siege modules since we last checked. Please go ask one of the better-informed developers about how the missile damage formula causes a damage reduction even against stationary targets (like sieged capitals) if their signature radius is low enough.



What a comprehension failure. Nozh said, entering siege/triage mode increases the amount of damage they receive. If you were not a complete ******, you was moving your cap before siege/triage, when taking fire from caps. Then you enter siege/triage and the movement stops, means that you take more damage, since the damage formulae combine speed and size to a certain degree. So if you, like you say, not even take full damage when being at 0m/s, then you take much less damage when being at 50m/s with the same ship. Therefore this statement of Nozh makes sense, if it doesn't for you, then it's because of your own failure and lack of knowledge.

ChronoSphere
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:40:00 - [1206]
 

Edited by: ChronoSphere on 20/11/2009 21:40:42
If CCP spent as much time working and interacting with us on this as they are moderating the thread, this would have worked out a heck of a lot better.


CCP just implement the changes as abathur originally outlined, we were all happy with it.

Page 41, post 1222.

Tea Spoon
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:40:00 - [1207]
 

Edited by: Tea Spoon on 20/11/2009 21:41:23
Maybe my question was deleted, so I'll repeat it:

How do dreads take more damage as a result of activating a siege module ? Please enlighten me CCP Nozh, this may save me in the future.

Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:41:00 - [1208]
 

Edited by: Commander Tigre on 20/11/2009 21:46:20


GIVE THE MOTHERSHIP ITS HP BUFF OR IT WILL CONTINUE TO BE A DUSTY TROPHY.

Irongut
Sex Money Guns
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:41:00 - [1209]
 

I've basically played no games other than EVE for almost 5 years but now I've signed up for 2 beta programs. If they turn out to be any good I'm off.

Evil Zeb
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:41:00 - [1210]
 



HATE WHAT YOUR DOING WITH CAPITALS. HATE YOUR CUSTOMER SERVICE MORE

paik
Minmatar
H A V O C
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:43:00 - [1211]
 

CCP I have logged off eve to fight this forum war you wont win.

Free Abathur

These changes are not good for eve. We tested and all agreed even head eve dev at fanfest supported the changes. Now this.

Close of business monday if a compromise hasnt been reached. I am going to 3rd part sites.


PS Ive been taking screenshots of all the post that have been deleted. You cannot and will not avoid the truth.

Hixson
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:44:00 - [1212]
 

Still no CCP response to this thread??

So much for EXCELLENCE. You need to Harden the **** up

Anubis Nefertiti
Obsidian Industries Inc
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:45:00 - [1213]
 

CCP Nozh is just doing everything by the seat of his pants and flushing all the hard work that the previous Dev "Selene" made.

These changes are horrible

Jimer Lins
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:46:00 - [1214]
 

This is really bad. Players have a five-minute timer between when they can say something and the thread is still going bananas despite buzzsaw moderation.

What astonishes me is that I don't think I've seen even ONE person in favor of this move. That's a first in my experience; if you had told me there was a way to get the entire player base united behind one concept I would have said you were insane.

I truly hope CCP is listening/watching and understand just how badly they have damaged their relationship with some of their most passionate customers with these hamfisted moves.

IronToken
Caldari
DiamondCutters
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:47:00 - [1215]
 

LOL. I have now read his thread from beginning to end. Started with 40 pages go up to 42 and now back to 41. I kept changing every time I went to the next page. I am unsure if they want Nozh to be dealing with the ASSAULT FRIGATE changes and dealing with SUPER CAP changes. To me those are two completely different groups of ships that each have their own unique role.

My guess is that things will change once more quite dramatically before the expansion is finally rolled out. So take this with a grain of salt. It may be a very small one but there is still hope. Cool

Grillmeister Grim
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:49:00 - [1216]
 

You want feedback. You get feedback!

Let's see... I have still some questions left unanswered from THE ONLY reply so far. Questions like:

Why are the proposed changes good for the game?

Why were the old changes from Abathur bad?

How can you even try balancing capitals when you have no clue about the game mechanics and game play around them?

Do you really think that such heavy censorship is doing you any good?

Think about it!

Next days you will read at the online magazines

"MASS CENSORSHIP AT CCP ALL OVER UNWANTED GAME CHANGES"

And the magazines will have no problem to find that 50%+ of the posts got censored and deleted.

Yeah, great greaaaaaaat PR. Think about it.

And what will you say then? "We were well within our rights to delete those posts." Oi, greaaat impression you make there. The PR-guys will soooo much thank you.

Don't you understand? A lot of players are unhappy.

LET THEM RANT AND COOL DOWN AND EXHAUST THEMSELVES.

If you delete stuff you only fuel them and they keep on and on getting more and more upset. You know how much damage a bunch of enraged nerds can do?

Just let them rant and exhaust. Then, after a while, some reasonable discussion can happen - hopefully. Think about it!


But why is there no feedback from CCP? I mean, shouldn't be there some guys trained for such occurances? Come on, even a post like 'Hey guys, we apologize for the uproar and will look at all the stuff in detail again. Give us a couple hours and we will give you answers.' would help.

But nothing??

Strange. Strange to say the least.

KeratinBoy
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:53:00 - [1217]
 

Edited by: KeratinBoy on 20/11/2009 21:53:24
Wouldn't it be nice to have a weekend without job stress because of poor community interaction and rampant censorship?

Stop making the same mistakes over and over again.

P.S., this kind of thing makes the CSM a blatant joke. Jade Constantine style chairing did not work for the CSM and it does not work for CCP.

Page 43 and post 1264, w00t.

Greg DaimYo
Caldari
Biotronics Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:54:00 - [1218]
 

Okay, I've logged off and got me a six-pack. It's friday and I have time on my hands.

Let's see if we can keep some mods busy.

@Content: I'd like a reason, why the initial changes were bad? It's shy of a week now that the changes were altered and there was not a single statement that explained why this happened. Just sayin'.

Station Mistress
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:54:00 - [1219]
 

@CCP:
Why exactly are you throwing out the capital changes "we" aka the playerbase worked on and tested for weeks on sisi?

Bud Johnson
Broski Enterprises
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:55:00 - [1220]
 

Originally by: Jimer Lins
This is really bad. Players have a five-minute timer between when they can say something and the thread is still going bananas despite buzzsaw moderation.

What astonishes me is that I don't think I've seen even ONE person in favor of this move. That's a first in my experience; if you had told me there was a way to get the entire player base united behind one concept I would have said you were insane.

I truly hope CCP is listening/watching and understand just how badly they have damaged their relationship with some of their most passionate customers with these hamfisted moves.



Im in favor of dominion as a whole.

The reason you don't see a bunch of people posting in favor of it is because 99% of players don't care about the e-outrage expressed in this thread.

The ones that did post were told that their opinion is irrelevant so that the butt hurt masses (that expansions inevitably call out of the woodwork) can justify their whinging to themselves.

Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:55:00 - [1221]
 

Its pretty obvious why they did not reveal most of the patch changes at fanfest. They would have had a riot on their hands.

CEO Rockhound
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:56:00 - [1222]
 

Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
Edited by: 0oO0oOoOo0o on 20/11/2009 21:41:48
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: CCP Nozh
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.



This makes absolutely no sense. Entering siege/triage does NOT increase the amount of damage you take, unless you have added a signature radius multiplier to siege modules since we last checked. Please go ask one of the better-informed developers about how the missile damage formula causes a damage reduction even against stationary targets (like sieged capitals) if their signature radius is low enough.



What a comprehension failure. Nozh said, entering siege/triage mode increases the amount of damage they receive. If you were not a complete ******, you was moving your cap before siege/triage, when taking fire from caps. Then you enter siege/triage and the movement stops, means that you take more damage, since the damage formulae combine speed and size to a certain degree. So if you, like you say, not even take full damage when being at 0m/s, then you take much less damage when being at 50m/s with the same ship. Therefore this statement of Nozh makes sense, if it doesn't for you, then it's because of your own failure and lack of knowledge.


After getting gang warped to a battlefield or jumping into a system in a cap ship blob, how do you move around, unless you bounced?

Agmar
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:56:00 - [1223]
 

Originally by: Hrin
Edited by: Hrin on 20/11/2009 21:52:47
Stop hating Nozh, he is a real person with feelings and you guys are hurting them MadMadMadMadMadMadMadMadMadMadMadMadMadMad

(1262)
Why don't you decloak Shrike over it?

These changes are even dumber than the original. Put Abathur back in charge of this please. Leave horrible concepts to your art team.

Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:57:00 - [1224]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Bilbo II
Deleting posts is unconstructive

Disagreement is not unconstructive

You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, not both because they are mutually exclusive.



That is, of course, incorrect.
Off topic posts and personal attacks are never constructive and should be deleted, regardless of how much pent up nerd rage you wish to express.
Posts that at least have some relevance are being left in place, which is constructive.
Express your displeasure with some small measure of maturity from now on and quit playing armchair freedom of speech activist.



I think I just found a DEV in disguise...

To be constructive... let's see... HP buff for motherships, that should be good enough. Yes I want an HP buff for the motherships so they wont get 1 shot by an uppity titan.

Trilli Shaw
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:59:00 - [1225]
 

Why is it that one of the supercapitals (titans) get all the good changes and boni and the other of the supercapitals (motherships) get nothing.

Did you consider that 2-3 titans now can insta-pop a mothership?

Master Akira
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:00:00 - [1226]
 

Edited by: Master Akira on 20/11/2009 22:00:15
Ignoring the problems will NOT make them go away CCCP, they will just become stronger!

Just answer us already, why were Abathur changes discarded?

Why do you even have "testing" and ask for "feedback" if a mid level dev can undo everything at the 11th hour like "sry, nop"?

Why are you deleting perfectly legit posts from your paying userbase with no explanation?

Seriously, How do you expect this to end?

post 1289, page 43

Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Nihil-Obstat
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:00:00 - [1227]
 

Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,

While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.

Abathur proposed changes to supercarriers. We tested them. WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. They seemed perfectly fair and balanced. Your response was to THROW AWAY god only knows how many months of planning on your side, and two months of testing and feedback from the players.

Now, even after all of that, we again try to offer you feedback, and ideas and solutions, and your response is to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT - and even worse, let someone who CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how capital ships work to puke all over this thread with nonsensical spreadsheet data.

CCP, seriously... HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO RESPOND?

Deleting posts left and right that you arbitrarily deem "inappropriate" is NOT helping your cause.

You are causing a SOE NGE catastrophe all over again, and you can't even see it.

Can you PLEASE get someone COMPETENT who UNDERSTANDS the way capital ships actually work to get back on these issues once again. Someone like... ABATHUR maybe?

Pyrhus Taavi
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:01:00 - [1228]
 

Edited by: Pyrhus Taavi on 20/11/2009 22:00:48
Were the original changes bad? We just want to know why you chose not to run with them.

1293

Darriele
Minmatar
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:02:00 - [1229]
 

Ignoring the problems will NOT make them go away CCCP, they will just become stronger!

Just answer us already, why were Abathur changes discarded?

Why do you even have "testing" and ask for "feedback" if a mid level dev can undo everything at the 11th hour like "sry, nop"?

Why are you deleting perfectly legit posts from your paying userbase with no explanation?

Seriously, How do you expect this to end?

Pedro Sangre
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:04:00 - [1230]
 

I am very disappointed, CCP. In the past, you have sometimes remembered that changes to one thing can require changes to others as well. In this case you're making balancing changes, but throwing out half of them. This will leave things even worse than you started, as the resulting imbalances will be even more pronounced.

And, as always, you have no concept of PR. You handle things about as gracefully as your average poster here, like a giant self-righteous stubborn nerd.


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