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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:00:00 - [1081]
 

Dominion : Emigration









(to empire)

Badboy K
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:01:00 - [1082]
 

i demand senior CCP dev guy to look at this, there's clearly something wrong with that ccp Nozh

Battle Tested
Shiva
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:03:00 - [1083]
 

Originally by: lydiazy
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.

Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.

Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.

Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).

Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.

Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.

This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.

Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.

You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.

Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.



This. I think its a thing called "feedback from the playerbase" ever heard of that ccp.


And the sad thing is we all agree on this, we all know this is the best design to the capitals, yet CCP Nozh will NOT allow these changes b/c then he would have to publicly say he was wrong and the playerbase was right....And we KNOW he won't do that because he is still trying to defend his ignorance with graphs that prove him wrong.

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:04:00 - [1084]
 

Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 20/11/2009 19:04:13
Originally by: paik
CCP Im issuing a warning to you.


If some serious discussion doesn't take place soon or a compromise with the player base I will be posting these chain of events and your failures on every 3rd party board I can find. Your hypocracy will be known to the gaming community. Banning me about it wont save you. MMORPG.com and so on. Us as paying customers demand better of you and you claim to demand excellence from yourselves.

Balls in your court.


And this is a threat that should be taken seriously, CCP... SOE took the same attitude towards their customers that you are, and word of mouth ruined them. They used to have 3 MMO's with 250K+ players. Today they don't have 250K players in total. Their reputation is that of the laughingstock of the industry.

Your reputation has been built up over years. It can be burned to the ground in minutes. Your customers have spoken. Get rid of this Nozh guy or shut him up.

CCP, if you win a ****ing match with your customers you will be the FIRST company in history to ever have done so.


Jordan Musgrat
Convergent
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:06:00 - [1085]
 

When the whole of eve thinks you're wrong, you'd better start asking why. I don't think you guys at CCP understand what you're doing. You're allowing 1 or just a few devs to ruin this patch. Start listening to the people who play the game. There was alot riding on this patch, and quite a few people had resubbed for it. Don't make the mistake of screwing it up. Getting a bit late in the game, isn't it?

The sad part is, most likely only Nozh is reading this thread, and the rest of the devs are thinking things are just rolling along dandily. Too bad the whole company isn't forced to read this thread and see what a big screwup there is.

Kkhaarn
Black Serpent Technologies
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:09:00 - [1086]
 

*rubs temples* CCP you continue to amaze me. Ok cool, for the next 6 months my two motherships are worth 20 billion give or take, and they can now be alphaed by two or three titans, and they can't do any more DPS, and they... I'm just gonna shut up before I get myself in trouble.

I say deploy the fighter bombers... Limit a mom to only be able to launch 10 at a time regardless of DCUs, leave the regular fighters at 20. YOu've still successfully implemented POS Bookmark Online for all mothership pilots until the next nerf comes along.

And I've never used a target painter on a dread... >.< I must be noob at this!

Ravenid
Amarr
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:10:00 - [1087]
 

Edited by: Ravenid on 20/11/2009 19:12:05
Love this quote from mmorpg.com

Quote:
MMORPG.com: Talk about the recent changes to the Massive Super Carrier. Many players are calling it a nerf. Can you set the record straight? Noah Ward: Unlike most other MMORPGs, with EVE we try to give every class of ship a clear role. It's not a simple game of bigger is better. It's more like a complex and nuanced game of Rock/Paper/Scissors. Unfortunately the poor Supercarrier (previously known as Mothership) never had a clear role much like the lion in Wizard of Oz didn't have a heart. They occupy a space between the massive Titans and the more ubiquitous Carrier class of ship without really standing out on their own. We wanted to improve this situation, find their true role and make them something pilots would be proud to fly; enter Fighter Bombers. Fighter Bombers are anti-capital weapons that launch big dumb warheads that do a lot of damage but have trouble hitting the broad side of a battleship. We like the direction things are heading and the models look damn cool but we're still not 100% sure the changes are achieving what we want to achieve. This is why the changes to Motherships/Supercarriers are being deferred and won't go out in Dominion 1.0. We're going to continue to play test both internally and on our public test servers. We're going to continue to talk to players. We're going to follow the yellow brick road and we're going to find the unique role these ships fill which will hopefully make the largest number of people happy.


Rolling Eyes

T'Karr
Minmatar
Trojan Trolls
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:11:00 - [1088]
 

I just want to put in a slightly more constructive post than i have done befor...

I dont think its right telling Nozh to quit his job, and for CCP to sack him etc... he's just a normal person doing his job. However, the community are upset because we were all happy and possibly excited by the capital changes that were coming to Dominion, and we had all tested them out and helped develop it with Abathur in charge... And then it seems, out of knowhere this all got scrapped and dumped away with no explanation and by a completly new person.

Nothing personal should be said towards Nozh in all fairness, this is a game afterall... But lets hope for the sake of the expansion that all the hard work and feedback that was put into Abathurs work is reinstated and will be implemented on patch day....

Im off to Nandos and then the Cinema (IRL).... HAVE A GOOD EVENING !

Jason Philyra
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:11:00 - [1089]
 

Nozh, I wont go on about my own experiences as a game designer, but I will say that this devlog doesn't make me excited for the future of cap/supercap warfare in EVE. It is pretty easy to say that everyone before me was wrong and now I am going to fix the game. That kind of attitude can get a lot of good changes into the game quickly, but it usually messes up at least as much as it fixes.

I really would like to see you spend more time in the game and evaluate some of the things you take as fact about capital ships. I personally do not agree with a lot of your conclusions, but I look forward to either being proven wrong, or having you come to my conclusions. This is your game and you know best, but remember that we are the people who choose to play in it.

Matrix Aran
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:13:00 - [1090]
 

I doubt e-mails to devs or messages to internal affairs on thier own will do much to convince someone eho isn't Nozh to speak on this issue, but with any luck this "vocal minority" can continue to pressure the devs until finaly someone other than Nozh steps up and adresses the issue.

Arra Lith
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:13:00 - [1091]
 

Edited by: Arra Lith on 20/11/2009 19:20:50
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.

Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.

Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.

Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).

Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.


Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.

This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.

Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.

You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.

Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.



I would add this:
* Citadel Torpedoes skill renamed to Citadel Missiles
* Citadel Missiles allows usage of both Citadel Cruise Missile Launcher and Citadel Torpedo Launcher (no new skill introduced, so skill-wise missiles need roughly samo amount of SP as gunnery weapon systems)

That would be perfect solution.

1500m for explosion radius (500m penalty comparing to 1000mm signature resolution of other dreads) for improving bonus 25% kinetic damage bonus only to 25% to ALL damage types seems fine compromise for me.
That would mean phoenix is better for shooting control tower and other ships rather than disabling pos modules.

Kraken Kill
Menace ll Society
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:13:00 - [1092]
 

about the 1500 torp explo radius, i agree it should be 1000m but i jsut dont have any believe that ccp will do this. trying to go for some kind of compromise. I think the Phoenix should get a 5% all damage time bonus though to compensate some.

Battle Tested
Shiva
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:14:00 - [1093]
 

Originally by: Ravenid
Edited by: Ravenid on 20/11/2009 19:12:05
Love this quote from mmorpg.com

Quote:
MMORPG.com: Talk about the recent changes to the Massive Super Carrier. Many players are calling it a nerf. Can you set the record straight? Noah Ward: Unlike most other MMORPGs, with EVE we try to give every class of ship a clear role. It's not a simple game of bigger is better. It's more like a complex and nuanced game of Rock/Paper/Scissors. Unfortunately the poor Supercarrier (previously known as Mothership) never had a clear role much like the lion in Wizard of Oz didn't have a heart. They occupy a space between the massive Titans and the more ubiquitous Carrier class of ship without really standing out on their own. We wanted to improve this situation, find their true role and make them something pilots would be proud to fly; enter Fighter Bombers. Fighter Bombers are anti-capital weapons that launch big dumb warheads that do a lot of damage but have trouble hitting the broad side of a battleship. We like the direction things are heading and the models look damn cool but we're still not 100% sure the changes are achieving what we want to achieve. This is why the changes to Motherships/Supercarriers are being deferred and won't go out in Dominion 1.0. We're going to continue to play test both internally and on our public test servers. We're going to continue to talk to players. We're going to follow the yellow brick road and we're going to find the unique role these ships fill which will hopefully make the largest number of people happy.


Rolling Eyes

This is amazing how they sugar coated thier lack of action towards an issue that is basically 2 years old. The mothership is still just a f'n unusable trophy.

casai
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:15:00 - [1094]
 

i like how they say were going to continue to talk to players

Shredded
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:18:00 - [1095]
 

Edited by: Shredded on 20/11/2009 19:20:06
So let me get this straight:
In a model example of openness and play cooperation, Players work with CCP to develop new changes for capital/supercapital ships, including full dialogue back and forth, These changes are then put into place on the test server, tested, tweaked slightly, then tested more, For months, until everyone is pretty pleased with the results -

And then at the last moment this CCP Nozh guy shows up, nixes all the changes, posts his own bizarre ideas of how 0.0 and capital warfare should happen, and ignores everyone?


No wait, he responds to everyone with a bunch of gibberish and points to pretty graphs which prove himself wrong?


Did I pretty much get this straight?


Originally by: Digital Gaidin
Originally by: casai
i like how they say were going to continue to talk to players


Well, maybe they count us yelling at them... uh... talking Laughing


No they talked to us remember those pretty graphs?

Digital Gaidin
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:18:00 - [1096]
 

Originally by: casai
i like how they say were going to continue to talk to players


Well, maybe they count us yelling at them... uh... talking Laughing

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:20:00 - [1097]
 

Originally by: T'Karr
I just want to put in a slightly more constructive post than i have done befor...

I dont think its right telling Nozh to quit his job, and for CCP to sack him etc... he's just a normal person doing his job. However, the community are upset because we were all happy and possibly excited by the capital changes that were coming to Dominion, and we had all tested them out and helped develop it with Abathur in charge... And then it seems, out of knowhere this all got scrapped and dumped away with no explanation and by a completly new person.

Nothing personal should be said towards Nozh in all fairness, this is a game afterall... But lets hope for the sake of the expansion that all the hard work and feedback that was put into Abathurs work is reinstated and will be implemented on patch day....

Im off to Nandos and then the Cinema (IRL).... HAVE A GOOD EVENING !


He only has himself to blame for the ill feelings, what with his ignorance and bad manners. He still won't answer the simple question of WHY the original changes were dumped after weeks of testing.

And, we, as customers have every right to ask that someone who is doing their job poorly to be sacked or reassigned. The Devs, after all, work for US, not the other way around. No subscribers=No paychecks.

I suggest assigning him the responsibility of revamping the noobships. Seeing as he's clearly never been to 0.0 much less fought in a capital, his experience might be more constructive on that project.

I strongly suspect that these nerfs and dumbing down of 0.0 have nothing to do with EVE as we know it and everything to do with Dust514.


Sin'tara
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:21:00 - [1098]
 

Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.

Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.

Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.

Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).

Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.

Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.



^THIS

I would also like to see the introduction of the first 'named' bomb for Dominion.

'Nozh' Lockbreaker Bomb: Emits random electronic bursts upon detonation that flood the targeting and navigation systems on all surrounding vessels with irrelevant graphs and data. Disables all modules and temporarily re-purposes all weapons with random effects.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:22:00 - [1099]
 

Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 20/11/2009 19:23:26
Let me make this nice and simple: CCP Nozh, you do NOT understand this game and the best thing you could do for EVE right now is submit your resignation at the earliest possible opportunity. This lame non-answer is not acceptable, we want an explanation for WHY you are removing Abathur's changes (which had near-unanimous agreement and significant player involvement).

Originally by: CCP Nozh
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.



This makes absolutely no sense. Entering siege/triage does NOT increase the amount of damage you take, unless you have added a signature radius multiplier to siege modules since we last checked. Please go ask one of the better-informed developers about how the missile damage formula causes a damage reduction even against stationary targets (like sieged capitals) if their signature radius is low enough.

Quote:
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.


Please go ask one of the better-informed developers to explain the tracking formula to you, so that you can understand why a sieged capital (therefore one with zero transversal) will take 100% damage from XL turrets.

Quote:
Graph: fighters vs. Phoenix



This is stupid as hell. Did you miss the part where you can not target paint a Phoenix? What could possibly make you think that it is a good idea to include stats for 15x fighters and 3x TPs?

Quote:
What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.



Please leave the balancing to people who understand that in capital fights (especially those involving dreads and/or triage carriers), nobody is moving. The idea of "dictating range" in ships that move less than 100m/s at best is just hilarious, you dictate range with the placement of your initial cyno, not by moving your ship mid-battle. And guess what: if you drop a fleet on some sieged dreads at 5km, you are going to STAY at 5km.

Impolite Andevil
New Dawn Corporation
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:22:00 - [1100]
 

Since apparently all our feedback is good for is making Nohz repeat himself, attempt to justify the changes that we unanimously agree are bad using graphs and statements that further show his lack of understanding of game mechanics (3 painters on a dread? Does the siege module increase sig radius now?), ignore criticism of some changes (nag?), and fail to explain why the changes we all agreed on are being scrapped in the first place, I have decided to speak with the only thing I hope they will pay attention to. Both of my accounts are now canceled with "changes made in the last patch" as the reason (since their is no "changes about to be made / ignoring the user base option), and the following text:

Since apparently the massive and unanimous negative feedback from players regarding the utter stupidity of the changes to dreads, titans, and motherships (i.e., not implementing Abathur's game plan) is being completely ignored, maybe this will get your attention. This toon was to be my mothership pilot. Now it and my main account are both going away. Maybe Mortal Online or Earthrise will actually listen to their players.

Parovski
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:22:00 - [1101]
 

Originally by: Shredded
So let me get this straight:
In a model example of openness and play cooperation, Players work with CCP to develop new changes for capital/supercapital ships, including full dialogue back and forth, These changes are then put into place on the test server, tested, tweaked slightly, then tested more, For months, until everyone is pretty pleased with the results -

And then at the last moment this CCP Nozh guy shows up, nixes all the changes, posts his own bizarre ideas of how 0.0 and capital warfare should happen, and ignores everyone?


No wait, he responds to everyone with a bunch of gibberish and points to pretty graphs which prove himself wrong?


Did I pretty much get this straight?


That and all of 0.0 agreeing with each other. Its like everyone in the UN coming together, joining hand in hand with their sworn enemy just to hate one person.

Zach Morgan
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:27:00 - [1102]
 

My fellow EVE brosefs. That includes you IT and AAA, pubbies that you are. For we have just found a common enemy.

I write today regarding the proposed changes to capital ships.

This is quite possibly the most appaulingly blatently misinformed piece of monumental misjudgement to have been visited upon the EVE universe. What on earth possessed Nozh to come up with this heaping pile of festering mucilaginous excrement?

Kindly send these changes to the place where they can never be given birth. Burn them, drown them, I don't care ... get rid of them.

Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:28:00 - [1103]
 

Originally by: T'Karr
I just want to put in a slightly more constructive post than i have done befor...

I dont think its right telling Nozh to quit his job, and for CCP to sack him etc... he's just a normal person doing his job. However, the community are upset because we were all happy and possibly excited by the capital changes that were coming to Dominion, and we had all tested them out and helped develop it with Abathur in charge... And then it seems, out of knowhere this all got scrapped and dumped away with no explanation and by a completly new person.

Nothing personal should be said towards Nozh in all fairness, this is a game afterall... But lets hope for the sake of the expansion that all the hard work and feedback that was put into Abathurs work is reinstated and will be implemented on patch day....

Im off to Nandos and then the Cinema (IRL).... HAVE A GOOD EVENING !


He failed to do his job, strike one
He failed to answer to his customers why he is unwilling to do his job, strike two
He has singlehandedly ****ed off a large portion of very vocal customers, strike three
He insults us with idiotic graphs and lines like, "let's see ...", strike four
He has continued to undo hard work of his co-workers, strike five
He has limited to no knowledge of in game mechanics and is charge of adapting ships for them, strike six

I could go on, but what's the point.

He is a bad example of an employee at ANY company, perhaps he shouldn't be fired, but maybe demoted to urinal cleaner.

Kai Lae
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:29:00 - [1104]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
you know, that DCU's are like the LAST thing you fit in a carrier's/mothership hi-slot, right?right??


Unfortunately, no, I don't think he does. This and several other already gross conceptual errors he has already demonstrated on how capital warfare in eve actually works shows that he is literally unqualified to be the dev in apparent charge of them. I'm again struck by the most common things that I think of when I read the info associated with these changes:

"Is this a really good troll?"
"DOES HE REALLY MEAN THAT?"
"YOU HAVE GOT TO BE ****TING ME!"

Etc.

Throwing the supercapital not-apparently-to-be-changed-changes overboard, what triggers the most "I can't believe I just read that" factor is the factor with citadel torps and target painters. It is totally illogical that a weapon system would be developed for a ship that by design could not effectively attack the targets that it was designed to fight. If this was discovered in development the weapon would be instantly canceled or serious fixes would be demanded to correct the issue. Yet that's exactly what citadel torpedoes are going to be now in game. They can't even hit small towers for full damage, nor dreads or carriers - in other words, the targets they are designed primarily to destroy. In return we get "use target painters" even though they literally don't (can't) work. This despite the fact that this fact has been pointed out repeatedly Nozh keeps doggedly telling us to use them anyway, showing an amazing inability to recognize actual reality, which is a bad sign to say the least. Unless of course the cryptic "siege increases damage taken" comment isn't yet another WTF moment but the foreshadowing of yet another unneeded incoming nerf where siege and triage mods boost sig radius by huge amounts to compensate for the unneeded nerf to citadel torps. I suppose now I'll need to check the test server to be sure that those haven't been stealth nerfed as well on top of the pile of other stealth nerfs that have accumulated over last week.

I'd love a description about why CCP also just undid several years of lobbying by the playerbase to get nalifail bonuses changed, but I'm now literally afraid of what will be listed as the reasons. When you already have demonstrated so many failures of basic understanding and a seeming inability to reason clearly, the likely answer will probably cause even more of my hair to turn grey than is already the case. It's really a situation of "I'm want to know wtf they are thinking, but I'm afraid to find out".

The recent nearly bizarre behavior of CCP in this area over the last week or so honestly makes me wonder if there isn't a more, basic underlying reason for some of their behavior. It would honestly explain a lot; maybe we here in Shiva could send Zed to head past their offices to be sure that either that reason or some other freak accident (carbon monoxide poisoning?) isn't the root cause. If CCP has any brain cells left they'll do the following:

#1. Get rid of Nozh with regards to capitals. This entire thread is a very long, extensive "no confidence" vote in his abilities. Keeping him around will just make the situation worse.
#2. Explain why you decided to do the things you're now doing. Suddenly undoing months of testing on seemingly a whim and changing everything at the last minute is a bad idea to say the least.
#3. If you have a concept that you think will work better you'd better start explaining what it is now.

The Mittani explained why your current actions are totally inadequate, listing 3 major reasons. Of those however, we could withstand 2 of them, but we can't withstand incompetence, which is what is being demonstrated now. Paying customers in a competitive environment generally don't suffer under it for very long, if at all. I suggest that you at least rethink how you're dealing with this situation, and do so quickly.

Serinao
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:29:00 - [1105]
 

If this is being ignored, and changes not made it will be almost sure this will cost ccp an lot of costumers.

Originally by: The MittaniThe danger of taking a position of 'democracy' and 'transparency' - by creating the CSM to allow for player feedback, having devs interact with players at length at Fanfest, and then having a multiple-week process on SiSi for players to provide input on supercapital reform - is that now the playerbase expects CCP to behave in an accountable way.

Now nothing changing at all, it seems apparent that Nozh himself is able to make these abrupt switches in capital design without any restraint or consensus from the Scrum process.

The CSM is hardly happy about these changes. You can find posts from many of the CSM reps lambasting this idiocy. They are our representatives, democratically elected in a process CCP intended to bring more accountability to the company. Yet where is their impact on Nozh?

Transparency, democracy, player consensus and Scrum - all abandoned. Thank for your help, Nozh!

casai
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:31:00 - [1106]
 

5 DCU on a MS

i think someones been buying characters of ebay

Darriele
Minmatar
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:32:00 - [1107]
 

38 pages of continuous arguing about current capitals+ balancing/nerfing/boosting (whatever you may call it ) and only one village idiot (yes Nozah ) from CCP replying to this thread ( don't count the thread starter and poor Navigator )

To be freaking honest, after reading the entire thread and having in mind previous incarnation of sc and titans "boosts" makes me think that "our opinion doesn't count whatsoever"

Btw this "Dominion expansion" supersedes "the Nano nerf episode" in terms of " at WTF were you thinking at" :)

fuze
Gallente
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:33:00 - [1108]
 

Originally by: Sin'tara
'Nozh' Lockbreaker Bomb: Emits random electronic bursts upon detonation that flood the targeting and navigation systems on all surrounding vessels with irrelevant graphs and data. Disables all modules and temporarily re-purposes all weapons with random effects.

The 'Nozh modified target painter' still has my vote.

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:35:00 - [1109]
 

Originally by: Impolite Andevil
Since apparently all our feedback is good for is making Nohz repeat himself, attempt to justify the changes that we unanimously agree are bad using graphs and statements that further show his lack of understanding of game mechanics (3 painters on a dread? Does the siege module increase sig radius now?), ignore criticism of some changes (nag?), and fail to explain why the changes we all agreed on are being scrapped in the first place, I have decided to speak with the only thing I hope they will pay attention to. Both of my accounts are now canceled with "changes made in the last patch" as the reason (since their is no "changes about to be made / ignoring the user base option), and the following text:

Since apparently the massive and unanimous negative feedback from players regarding the utter stupidity of the changes to dreads, titans, and motherships (i.e., not implementing Abathur's game plan) is being completely ignored, maybe this will get your attention. This toon was to be my mothership pilot. Now it and my main account are both going away. Maybe Mortal Online or Earthrise will actually listen to their players.


I'm back to playing SWG, personally, now that Pre-CU is available again via a player created server. I'm looking hard at Star Trek Online and Star Wars: The Old Republic.

Yeah, I was actually thinking of getting a mothership for my capital toon with the planned changes. Instead I no longer even want my capital toon, or the dread, carrier, and jump freighter I currently own.

Honestly, the only way to get CCP to listen, since they aren't going to read this thread, is to hit them where it will really hurt, their wallet. Cancel your subscriptions. Mine are, and they run out over the next couple weeks. I had planned on only taking a break until Dominion came out, now I don't know if I will be back.

Nothing puts me off faster than a horrible attitude displayed by a MMO publisher towards the customer, and these changes are feeling more and more like EVE's NGE.

I don't listen to publisher promises anymore after that one. I only observe actions. Never again will I accept promises that the "future will be awesome with what we can do if you accept these changes you don't want right now". That future awesomeness never happens. I accepted the Star Wars Galaxies "Combat Downgrade" to only get hit with the NGE 6 months later.

cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:36:00 - [1110]
 

Originally by: The Kan
Originally by: The Mittani
The danger of taking a position of 'democracy' and 'transparency' - by creating the CSM to allow for player feedback, having devs interact with players at length at Fanfest, and then having a multiple-week process on SiSi for players to provide input on supercapital reform - is that now the playerbase expects CCP to behave in an accountable way.

Arbitrary, incompetent and uninvited changes decided behind closed doors are not a sign of 'excellence', nor are they the kind of behavior that the playerbase will tolerate from the 'new, reformed CCP' - the supposedly democratic, transparent company that listens to its clients, in the aftermath of the previous unpleasantness.

In theory - based on what CCP told us at Fanfest - they use the 'Scrum' development method. However, given how Nozh has unilaterally altered motherships (first 6bn isk, then they can dock, now nothing changing at all) it seems apparent that Nozh himself is able to make these abrupt switches in capital design without any restraint or consensus from the Scrum process.

The CSM is hardly happy about these changes. You can find posts from many of the CSM reps lambasting this idiocy. They are our representatives, democratically elected in a process CCP intended to bring more accountability to the company. Yet where is their impact on Nozh?

Transparency, democracy, player consensus and Scrum - all abandoned. Thank for your help, Nozh!



mittani, stop posting allready, i HATE to agree with you Mad


i know things are back when the kan agrees with a goon.

when is ccp nozh going to reply to our question of why are the changes wrong or his he hiding from that question get your finger out of your ass and do some replying not just your graphs.

basic rule 1 unhappy customer tells 10 people those 10 then tell 6 who then tell 4 thats 251 people knowing it (maths is 6*4*10=240+10+1 =251) that is ofcouse the old way now 1 unhappy customer tells 1000's with the internet this can lead to ess customers.


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