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Captain Plumb
Gallente
Veto.
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:27:00 - [1051]
 

I wish that this whole Nozh business was some huge prank by CCP, but from the way this thread is getting modded to high heaven im going to guess that CCP know theyve made a big mistake.

Seriously CCP, Abathur had the right idea! why did you bring in a bunch of monkeys to destroy his work and wreck motherships?!

Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:28:00 - [1052]
 

Guys ... Guys ... Calm down

He's actually right you know ...

If there's no reason to live in 0.0
and
if there's no reason to fight in 0.0
and
there's no reason to fly a supercap
then logically
there's no reason to give a damn about your customers

Lady Karma
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:29:00 - [1053]
 

Nozh's vision of cap warfare appears to involve agile groups of dreads constantly warping around to achieve optimal range, and only dropping into siege when they feel sorry for a phoenix, as this will somehow increase the damage.

Groups of huginns are used to tackle the dreads, slowing them down so they don't out track the turrets, and painting them so torps can do ungodly amounts of damage. Siege mods, are only to be used in case of emergency, as you don't want to make battleships feel inadequate by boosting your dps.
Ignore these terrible rumours that cap fights involve, jump to broadcast, siege green, siege green, split stacks, sort by a-z. It's all about warping around, and keeping up your transveral.

This is what happens in cap warfare. Can I get a job now CCP


Konoch
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:29:00 - [1054]
 

I will say only the following

Over the next year three MAJOR Scifi games one of which is the successor to EVE's biggest competition will go fully online. (Jumpgate Evo) I planned on investing for a full year in this game come jan/feb. IF this is not a joke those plans may well go completely out the window and i may wait for a new game rather than ever come back to this again. CCP What's happening here is a basic dismissal of the CSM and a complete backhand to the playerbase. I can invest the money i was going to spend on this game on 360 Components or another MMO.

You want to lose customers? Keep going. I left once i have no problem leaving again if this is going to continue to be the standard MO.

Zedone
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:30:00 - [1055]
 

CCP, it's pretty obvious that you need to halt/scrap all the current capital changes for dominion at this time. At least until you can get some competent designers into the team with some real ideas. Original ideas were a great start, yet some random designer(s) decided to crap it all and do his/their own thing.

You can't really just expect us to accept this horrific destruction. It's way beyond balance and nerf. It's pure destruction of current capital mechanics that we the players enjoy having.

If you expect any of us to just sit quietly, offline and stuck in our so called super caps. You seriously need a reality check.

If you take away someone's toy. He stops playing, and looks for something else to do.

Trilli Shaw
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:34:00 - [1056]
 

What is all the fuzz about?? I don't get it!


Dominion :

- free from the shackles of pos-warfare

- free from the shackles of cap-warfare

- free from the shackles of war for space

- free from the shackles of supercaps

- free from Eve, finally



Ain't it great??

Serpents smile
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:36:00 - [1057]
 

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...


I comment you upon stepping into the WWI war trenches filled with deadly gasses, but jeebus,
does it really take almost 24 hours to get a response on your devblog. I mean like, you are the only sole responsible for the current, uhm, mesh? Surprised
I thought this was a (CCP)team effort?

So what was wrong with CCP's Abathurs devblog and the subsequent mass testing that was well percieved by anyone but, uhm, you?
Shocked

Ice Fist
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:36:00 - [1058]
 

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...

"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"

On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.

The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.


"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."

What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.


"Docking games"

We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.


"Titans"

As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.


Ok, so basically you don't get it. What I want to know is WHY you're taking the perfectly acceptable supercapital changes you've been proposing for two months now and are scraping them forrrr..... NOTHING. And all your crap about damage ratios is all damage control for "We don't want to do this anymore, and we don't really care about what any of the players think, especially the ones that these changes affect the most." Instead of ofering us reasonable alternatives to the problem you totally screw us, thanks.

Eric Starym
Koshaku
Antaeus Combine
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:37:00 - [1059]
 

Nozh...

You really failed, even if all your reasons are correct and all arguments are absolutely valid you still failed. (Which is not the case anyway)

You as the person in charge, you who writes the blogs and answers in forums, you should at least be able to communicate with your clients.

Let's assume all your facts are correct, then the only reason for the upset atm is that you were not able to explain the situation. 99,9% of the posters here you didn't reach, they don't understand WHY it is good what you are doing! You had a perfect product and a perfect reasons for doing what you did, but the players are not accepting it, you failed to sell your product.

Anyway the problem here isn't only the lack of communication, but the fact that some people even use the ships you are doing a rework on. So they probably have at least half a clue about the effects from your "work"!
Well, some hundred pilots must be totally wrong, as you OF COURSE made no mistake, hell better apply for a position in the Vatican. "The earth is a disc!" and "We, the humans, are the center of the universe!". The church only needed some hundred years to realize they were wrong, cya in 2309.

Went Boom
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:37:00 - [1060]
 

At least CCP will never have any competition in the feild of space mmo's

oh wait
Jumpgate

Startrek (confirmed to have ambulation working right from the start)

Star Wars (true I can't figure out if you can fly spaceships in this one, but you can be a jedi)

Nope, CCP don't worry about keeping your customers, you have the market cornered on space MMO's, right? Rolling Eyes

kittypaws
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:39:00 - [1061]
 

Naglafar now get's target painting bonus on sisi:

http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0911/naglfar.png

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:39:00 - [1062]
 

Quote:
NO CHANGES WILL BE MADE TO MOTHERSHIPS IN DOMINION


Can you do the same to the Moros pretty please? :D

Thrud Valkyries
Minmatar
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:39:00 - [1063]
 

Edited by: Thrud Valkyries on 20/11/2009 18:52:25
Ok, i get it now.

Nozh dont like caps cause he cant fly them.
He started to nerf the **** out of the carriers 2 years ago.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=514

Its clear they he doesnt know anything about anything when it comes internet spaceships.
No, Nozh im not flaming you. Its just fact and you know it.
Nerfing carriers, designing t3 ships that you can only use for scouting or rating/plexing.

Good work, Nozh.

But the point is, you talked to us when you were going to kill the carrier and made it to a pretty nice thing after all. Why wont you listen to us now and give us the things we tested on sisi?

Digital Gaidin
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:41:00 - [1064]
 

Edited by: Digital Gaidin on 20/11/2009 18:42:15
Quote:

At least CCP will never have any competition in the feild of space mmo's

oh wait
Jumpgate

Startrek (confirmed to have ambulation working right from the start)

Star Wars (true I can't figure out if you can fly spaceships in this one, but you can be a jedi)

Nope, CCP don't worry about keeping your customers, you have the market cornered on space MMO's, right?



No offense, but all 3x of those Sci-Fi MMORPG's look like **** compared to EVE. Maybe Star Trek will get their act together, but who really wants to play Jedi-WOW (aka MMORPG KOTOR). Jumpgate Evolution looks like EVE with joysticks... seems so 1990's...

Give us some communication with a non-defensive GM please about WHY these changes are needed and WHY the player-approved and player-tested recommendations/opinions were completely ignored!?!?!?

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:41:00 - [1065]
 

Originally by: Nucanot
Keep on deleting posts, CCP. That's the right thing to do.

Here's a suggestion:
Set a constant number of pages for this thread, say 3. Then claim
the changes are well received, because only a handful of people
whined about them.


That is exactly what SOE did with the NGE. They kept deleting threads/posts, banning users, and proclaiming that the changes were "well received" and that the complainers were a "vocal minority".

Is Nozh's real name Julio Torres or John Smedley?

L4NC3R
Igneus Auctorita
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:46:00 - [1066]
 

Quote:
The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.

You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.

Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.


The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.


I bolded the parts you should really pay attention to!

Went Boom
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:48:00 - [1067]
 

Originally by: Digital Gaidin
Edited by: Digital Gaidin on 20/11/2009 18:42:15
Quote:

At least CCP will never have any competition in the feild of space mmo's

oh wait
Jumpgate

Startrek (confirmed to have ambulation working right from the start)

Star Wars (true I can't figure out if you can fly spaceships in this one, but you can be a jedi)

Nope, CCP don't worry about keeping your customers, you have the market cornered on space MMO's, right?



No offense, but all 3x of those Sci-Fi MMORPG's look like **** compared to EVE. Maybe Star Trek will get their act together, but who really wants to play Jedi-WOW (aka MMORPG KOTOR). Jumpgate Evolution looks like EVE with joysticks... seems so 1990's...

Give us some communication with a non-defensive GM please about WHY these changes are needed and WHY the player-approved and player-tested recommendations/opinions were completely ignored!?!?!?


No offense taken, my point still stands that they are soon going to be one of several in the viable space MMO market.

And yes Star Trek currently looks like ass, and I'm not really interested in playing a star wars MMO, but jumpgate looks promising and kinda cool, so far.


stylo11
Gallente
KANTAI HIKAGE
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:48:00 - [1068]
 

*SIGH*

When something right is done for once, give us a shout.

Ryan Powers
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:48:00 - [1069]
 

I think Nozh is telling me that I should scrap my future plans to train for a dread.

As everyone else has asked, if EW (electronic warfare) does not work on sieged dreads, why is there a bar in your 'vs phoenix' dps graph that considers 3 TP's (target painters) being used? The U.S. Congress is bad enough at using misleading graphs, we don't need that from a videogame.

Also, as everyone else has asked (Everyone in the world. Even Tibetan monks.) what prompted these recent decisions? Was there a flaw with the previous process in which players actually tested the changes? Is there some secret coding mistake that makes the proposed changes untenable on Tranquility?

Yazus Kor
Kotharat Logistics
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:49:00 - [1070]
 

Originally by: Thrud Valkyries
Ok, i get it now.

Nozh dont like caps cause he cant fly them.
He started to nerf the **** out of the carriers 2 years ago.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=514

Its clear they he doesnt know anything about anything when it comes internet spaceships.
No, Nozh im not flaming you. Its just fact and you know it.
Nerfing carriers, designing t3 ships that you can only use for scouting or rating/plexing.

Good work, Nozh.

But the point is, you talked to us when you were going to kill the carrier and made it to a pretty nice thing after all. Why wont you listen to us now and give us the things we tested on sisi?



Link is Mysteriously not working.
How Subtle.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:49:00 - [1071]
 

Some things in this blog sounds sensible, but others.. far from.

* Achieving certain role for certain ships, or at least trying to, usually helps from making given ships 'useless' as another one does the same job 'better'. I.e. it's good if CCP can streamline the capitals 'role'.

- However, it's worth mentioning; the changes that Abathur initially pulled in for motherships actually streamlined them into an on-field damage dealer. The later changes by Nozh put the xMom's into a pure Carrier role. I'm quite worried that Nozh, frankly speaking, have no clue what the hell he's doing.

* This is illustrated by the next example. Nozh, in his blog, states that certain missile types will require target painters to be effective.
- I'd love to hear Nozh explain why and who would field TP's when the Dreads are fighting POS, Dreads (usally sieged), Supercapitals (e-war immune) and Carriers (expected to be more commonly used in triage post-Dominion)?

All in all the blog doesn't really explain much, except the reasoning behind capital weaponry, and it states what role the Titan is supposed to have. However, it shows a lack of understanding of basic game concept, and it's worrying how Nozh say one thing, but act another way (the 'role' for motherships).

I'm happy we get the TQ-moms back tho, the 10drone, cheap manufacture and dockable thing was an abomination that never should exist. We already got carriers.

foxxxy Love
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:50:00 - [1072]
 

Edited by: foxxxy Love on 20/11/2009 18:52:40
The day Dominion ships with these clearly well-informed, extensively discussed, brilliantly implemented capital ship changes designed exclusively by CCP Nozh is the day I fire up my alt, fly my Nyx straight into empire space and take on all of CONCORD because, essentialy, this is exactly what they were so ingeniously redesigned for: getting blown up.


To CCP Nozh: Please let this be some ill-concieved practical joke

(Edit: Poor Grammarz)

Itzena
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:51:00 - [1073]
 

Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Originally by: Nucanot
Keep on deleting posts, CCP. That's the right thing to do.

Here's a suggestion:
Set a constant number of pages for this thread, say 3. Then claim
the changes are well received, because only a handful of people
whined about them.


That is exactly what SOE did with the NGE. They kept deleting threads/posts, banning users, and proclaiming that the changes were "well received" and that the complainers were a "vocal minority".

Is Nozh's real name Julio Torres or John Smedley?

Hey now, that's a little unfair...to Smed. He eventually admitted that the NGE was a screw-up from beginning to end and tried to learn from it.

Ammath
Amarr
Burning Technologies
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:54:00 - [1074]
 

In the spirit of Kanye West...

CCP Nohz doesn't care about Cap People.
CCP Nohz doesn't care about Cap People.
CCP Nohz doesn't care about Cap People.



Tollgram
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:56:00 - [1075]
 

Edited by: Tollgram on 20/11/2009 18:56:50
Originally by: The Mittani
The playerbase tested the new motherships over several weeks on SiSi and found them good.

Some genius put you in charge of Abathur's good work, and now you've not only screwed up all the effort that went into testing those ships, now there's to be no improvement at all.

Where is your credibility on caps? Who are you? Have you fought in a supercapital, lost a supercapital on the field?

Is this the new CCP, or the old CCP rearing its terrible, incompetent head?

I agree with this cute little mittens here.

Also, free CCP Abathur. Seleene is a good dev. I'm saying this unironically.

Creed Demastikus
House of Demastikus
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:58:00 - [1076]
 

can we change patch name

Dominion - Nozh Strikes ?
Dominion - Who the hell gaves a **** to player opinions ?
Noziminion ?
Diemomsyayforcarebearsovmechanic ?
Zero.zero Crush!
Back to the Empire..

meh..



Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:59:00 - [1077]
 

Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.

Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.

Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.

Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).

Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.

Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.

This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.

Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.

You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.

Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.

just to make the point absolutely clear, a random jagoff from atlas just did a better job balancing capitals than ccp nozh

these changes, or some simulacra of these changes, are the ones that should be implemented

fuze
Gallente
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:59:00 - [1078]
 

So this dev who boasts having level 5 spreadsheets easily negates the 8 months work of players and colleagues without even mentioning why?

Is this revenge for players for whining about carriers nerfing or what?


lydiazy
Amarr
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:59:00 - [1079]
 

Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.

Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.

Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.

Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).

Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.

Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.

This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.

Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.

You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.

Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.



This. I think its a thing called "feedback from the playerbase" ever heard of that ccp.

Digital Gaidin
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:00:00 - [1080]
 

Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.

Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.

Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.

Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).

Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.


Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.

This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.

Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.

You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.

Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.



I'm just curious why everyone is shouting signed when the bolded part was screamed about before this post? 1500 Explosion Radius (and possibly 60m/s - need to test) still place these weapon systems into the royally screwed category? A much better solution was posted awhile back to match the relationship between missiles/torpedoes versus their gun counterparts at the small/medium/large levels (i.e. ~750 radius on missiles, ~1150 radius on torpedoes)

It would be nice if your reason for the change was realized by the numbers you proposed. And possibly the lemmings who keep quoting you ugh


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