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Jacevetter
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:31:00 - [991]
 

In reading over all the dev blogs about The Dominion it sounds like the new Dominion is ALL about 0.0 space only. In the past changes add to new interest within the game, so any changes or additions seems to get old players back and new players deeper into EVE with re-newed interest. IT is the very issue that sets EVE apart from others ! Come'on guys put the fighter bombers in with limits for now, so we can get excited about NEW items, NEW ships, NEW strategy, NEW experiences, and can someone tell me if low sec or hi sec is getting ANYTHING in the patch ?Cool

Nevada Tan
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:32:00 - [992]
 

All that 0.0 is getting in Dominion is made more expensive with smaller income.
Do you really want that?

Tirus Sinobi
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:32:00 - [993]
 

Quote:
CCP might get the hint if on a pre-determined day very shortly NO ONE from any of the 0.0 alliances logs on for a whole 24 hour period. Regardless of anything you need to do, on that day if CCP see that 80-90% of the userbase refuse to log in to show their distain with what's happening then maybe they will get the hint and actually start listening to players (and hopfully nerf Nohz)???


Wouldnt a blatant refusal to log on to the test server ever again work better?
That way CCP learn there lesson, if there gonna throw out the playerbases testing efforts they have to do it themselves in the future, also you still all get to play the game.

Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:33:00 - [994]
 

Edited by: Sertan Deras on 20/11/2009 17:33:58
Originally by: Elaron
Originally by: CCP Nozh
[Stuff]
I note that you did not deign to explain why it was necessary to revert the Naglfar's bonuses back to the horrid split-weapons version that was changed just recently by CCP after many months of player and CSM lobbying. Especially when it has been proven that it could have been brought into line by reducing the magnitude of the bonuses.

Why must the Minmatar dreadnought pilots suffer with two half-bonuses and the requirement to fit double the damage mods to get the same effect as the other three dreadnoughts, especially after training for two (soon three) capital weapon systems? Did you change
them without looking up the recent history of the ship? Do you just loathe Minmatar?


Because the great and powerful Nozh says so, despite having absolutely no clue how capital combat actually works.

...god, I am replying to a Star Fraction post in an unironic way and am in complete agreement.

CCP, do you see what you've done here?! You've made Goons agree with Star Fraction about something. This means your ideas are bad.

Taladool
Minmatar
JIta-Hosting
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:34:00 - [995]
 

Originally by: Tea Spoon
Originally by: CCP Nozh

Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.



This sentence makes no sense to me however many times I read it. How does activating a siege/triage module increase the damage received as it provides immunity from the Target Painters needed to take full damage from certain weapons ?

If English is not your native language and have problems expressing a point in it there must be someone there to help you communicate.


I would assume that he is pointing out the fact that you are now not moving at all, and because of this you wouldn't reduce any dmg by lol "speed tanking the torps in a dread" though im not sure that is even possible...

SXYGeeK
Gallente
do you
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:34:00 - [996]
 

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...

"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"

On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.

The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.

To illustrate how it would have worked with Fighter Bombers, you can take a look at these graphs:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.



"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."

What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.


"Docking games"

We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.


"Titans"

As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.


@CCP Nozh
I got to hand it to you for taking such intense criticism and still being able to post here in the midst of it and give us your point of view.

I liked most of the changes that where coming for super carriers, though I was a little disappointed over losing my drone swarm.
It's disappointing that we have to take such a step back on them, but perhaps good to take some more time on them.

Kra Torii
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:36:00 - [997]
 

Heh, there's meant to be 1062 posts in this thread.

:welp:

Tappits
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:36:00 - [998]
 

Let's see...
Originally by: CCP Nozh


"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"


OMG you got something right well done.

Originally by: CCP Nozh


Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.


So what your saying is if I enter siege mode in my dread I take more damage because I can tank more?

Don't you mean if I enter siege mode I will be takeing less damage because I can no longer be target painted and then that intern scales the damage dealt.

Originally by: CCP Nozh


The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.


But they don't so were are you getting your info from?

Originally by: CCP Nozh
changes subject to something else


I loved the Vs Phoenix one with the 3 target panters lololol
Does that not pruve that what you said “Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive” is infact a lie.

Originally by: CCP Nozh

"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."

What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.


Backtracking agane.


Originally by: CCP Nozh

"Titans"

As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.


When you say “WE” Dont you realy mean “ME” maybe you should read up on other DEVS work

Originally by: CCP Abathur

Titans
The most dramatic change to Titans will be the removal of the current area of effect, grid smashing, lag generating, fun killing, fleet destroying super weapon.  It's gone, folks!  In its place will be the first of what we hope to be a new line of mutually exclusive super weapons, usable only by Titans. The first of these will debut in Dominion and will keep the names of their grid-wide predecessors but will now focus their destructive energies upon single targets.  (Insert Admiral Ackbar quotes as you please!)
There is nothing fancy about this. You will have to warp your titan on grid and actually target an enemy ship to ruin his day.  You won't be killing other supercapitals in one shot, but very little else is going to survive.  The weapon has drawbacks that are designed to prevent the Doomsday drive-bys of the present, but you'll find a couple more changes which might encourage you to stick around a bit longer than before.
First up is that the current weapon bonuses on Titans will get just a tiny bit of an enhancement so that the turret locators actually might get used. This damage will vary with fittings, just as with any other ship, but will certainly enable a Titan to make its presence felt if the pilot so chooses.
Second, to ensure that you don't instantly melt and can survive more than a minute on the modern EVE capital battlefield, we will be giving Titans a respectable hit point increase.  This will not render Titans invulnerable to assault, but it should allow allied forces time to properly assist them after someone says, "Hey, watch this!" on voice comms and gets in trouble.
The future of this ship class is not set in stone and as EVE continues to evolve they may find even more roles to play.  For now, we consider these changes to be a step forward in bringing Titans closer to being an actual ship instead of the giant nano-smart bombs they have become.  However, Titans won't be alone in dealing with the capital fleets of EVE...


Now all we ask is you drop it and get some one that we can trust to do the right thing because at the mo I don't think there one person in EVE that trusts you...

robert stout
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:39:00 - [999]
 

Originally by: Tea Spoon
Originally by: CCP Nozh

Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.



This sentence makes no sense to me however many times I read it. How does activating a siege/triage module increase the damage received as it provides immunity from the Target Painters needed to take full damage from certain weapons ?

If English is not your native language and have problems expressing a point in it there must be someone there to help you communicate.


well, i suppose, nozh thinks that sieged dreads have increased reps ability AND they are vulnerable and got more damaged compared they are not in siege mode. since nozh shows he knows nothing bout caps - that must be it.

VinceNoir
Amarr
Shade.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:40:00 - [1000]
 

2 Titans can instapop a mothership post patch. A 16 bil ship should not be able to be killed by two ships instantly, I don't care what those ships are.

At the very least give moms the HP boost that they were supposed to get. You can not honestly expect me to believe that leaving the HP where it is right now is balanced.

Mioelnir
Minmatar
Cataclysm Enterprises
Ev0ke
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:41:00 - [1001]
 

Originally by: Chris Rittenhouse

Originally by: The Mittani
Reasonable stuff.

More reasonable stuff.


Indeed. Basically, someone at CCP just aborted the lovechild of game design and playerbase 8 months into the pregnancy.

Ever since I started playing eve some 3 years ago, there was talk about player feedback to the game design, influence and all that stuff. Let's all be honest here, it rarely if ever happened. Usually new designs hit Sisi 2 weeks before release and player feedback pulled the worst bugs and sometimes a game design that would have disintegrated immediately outside the ivory tower.

With the supercap changes, this was different. Long before release, we got a devblog introducing us to the vision of what they should become. This was discussed, playtested, further discussed, adjusted etc etc.
The suggestions had to have been nodded at by the higher ups, so art for them could be created (the department with the tightest schedule as we are always told). It was presented at Fanfest. It was further discussed at the fanfest panel.

Then someone came from behind and stabbed it dead.
How are we to have any more faith in the development process? There is a video on youtube, in which the Lead Game Designer states he is excited about these changes, after weeks of working with them. And from one day to the other, Game Design feels direct damage should not be their role?
How? Why?

Basically: who are you and what have you done with the Game Design department of CCP? Do you want ransom?

Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:44:00 - [1002]
 

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...

"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"

On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.

The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.

To illustrate how it would have worked with Fighter Bombers, you can take a look at these graphs:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.



"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."

What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.


"Docking games"

We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.


"Titans"

As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.


Oh god man, really?

I actually stopped reading the first couple times right after "Let's see...". I can't think how you can start a post, in probably the most vitriolic thread I have seen in years with the trolling "Let's see ...", and you actually want to be taken seriously?

You haven't even bothered to answer our questions you numb skull. We are asking why you have chosen to reverse the changes that the entire (aside from empire mining pubbies and l4 running isk farmers) agreed were pretty good. What direction do you intend to take Mom's and Titans and dreads now since there will really be no purpose to them ever fighting in fleets again? Seriously where the hell are you going with this? Now let's add in the fact that with the current list of proposed changes there will be few if any reasons to live in 0.0 much less to fight over 0.0 and you won't actually even see battleship fights anymore. There is almost literally no reason what so ever to play Eve after Dominion, and this includes you empire pubbies, who are going to buy your ships and l33t faction lewts when there is no one left in 0.0?

What was wrong with the previous 95% complete changes that YOU had to reverse? Your still trumpeting the use of Target Painters on ships that cannot be target painted most of the time. Also carry some target painters instead of a tank of any kind on your capital everyday, **** yea! Clone tanking in Nags for the win!

We are complaining both about your proposed changes, and your complete idiocy. Trolling us with more of the latter is not going to solve your problem.

CCP ADDRESS THE THOUSANDS OF COMPLAINTS YOU ARE RECEIVING ABOUT THIS RAVING IDIOT, FIRE CCP NOZH AND RESTORE THE CHANGES WE WERE PROMISED

Thrud Valkyries
Minmatar
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:45:00 - [1003]
 

Originally by: Battle Tested
I would just like a straight up answer from CCP Nozh....What part of CCP Abathur's proposed "Supercarrier" was overpowered or broken? I want to hear it directly from you Nozh...tell us!


33 pages....
1 post from a moderator....
1 post from Nozh that just made things more fubar.....

Why dont anyone from CCP step in, make a post saying "We are so sorry about this. Lets bring back the working stats for the ships and see how it works."

Or "Dear players. We are going to ignore everything you say. We are going to nerf every single ship in-game and just focus on Dust 514. Have a wounderful life and buy a x-box 360."

This is FUBAR, CCP.
Did you want this when you guys came up with the ideas for Dominion?
Most of us have been playing this game for ALONG time and payed ALOT of money for it.
You're talking about giving something back to the players and listen to us when you put up a new idea about somthing. But when we do, you slap us in the face and just ignore us.

Thanks.......

KInkamache
Caldari
Rim Collection RC
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:46:00 - [1004]
 

Every new pilot in eve once is used to game Mechanics and see a Cap the first thing comes to his head is i want to fly one of those. Well with all this stupid changes why would a new pilot want that. I could have more fun on a BS or even small HAC gang. The Titan, carrier or Mother ships dream have being taken from us once this stupid Nozh idea comes to life. If i were CCP i would fire this moron and get someone that actually know about different types of ships and roles in warfare. What makes EVE stand up above all other MMO out there is the capacity and role the player base have to influence in what is coming in new content, well looks like that is being taken from us by tis MORON NOZH.

Telender
Reblier Innovations
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:46:00 - [1005]
 

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...

"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"

On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.

The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.




Your grammar in the first paragraph is insanely confusing. You make it sound as if entering siege somehow increases sig radius ("both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive") but that is NOT the case so what exactly are you trying to say?

Torps are the ONLY capital weapon that does not do full damage to other capitals. There aren't very many targets larger than a dread and considering dreads are primarily used for shooting pos mods and OTHER CAPITALS this seems pretty inane.

Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:46:00 - [1006]
 

I think Mittani makes an excellent point, and one that we should really be pushing:

Why was the transparency and feedback loop that worked so well with Abathur's changes completely ignored and thrown away? Why is CCP so afraid to give us a reason why?

Regardless of what ship class you fly, super cap, cap, BS, HAC, whatever...this should bother you. It should bother you greatly, that well tested, well thought out, player approved changes were thrown away in the 11th hour, with no explanation, and half assed sarcastic defensive posts as backup.

This isn't about capital pilots anymore, this about CCP bait and switching us on their "new design process". Making the community feel as if they were involved in the process, only to take the crown jewel of these efforts (the mothership changes) and throwing them out, with no transparency and no feedback.

At least CCP has shown their true colors and proved that the CSM and the community feedback loop they claimed they wanted, was just a farce.

Promethian child
Amarr
0utbreak
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:47:00 - [1007]
 

Oke this whole debacle makes my list of top 10 ****ups of 2009 coming at a smashing NR 1.

Good job Nozh I very much doubt anyone will top this before the end of the year.

Unless you got more plans ?

Aydjile
Amarr
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:47:00 - [1008]
 

Originally by: Christos Hendez
Originally by: The Mittani
Edited by: The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.

You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.

Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.

The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.


Completely agreeing with Mittens...now if you look at my alliance ticker, youll know this is a big deal.


i agree, with AAA's agreeing. and check my sig. that will tell you something, too...

Khefron
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:47:00 - [1009]
 

Nozh, you're trolling us aren't you? There's no way a designer of this game can think that siege modules increase sig radius, that a capital weapon system is not supposed to do full damage to structures and capitals in siege, or that saying "use target painters" is an appropriate solution to a weapon system being completely unsuitable for engaging targets of its class.

Just spill the beans with what you're really planning on doing for Dominion already.

Kuar Z'thain
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:48:00 - [1010]
 

Originally by: Thrud Valkyries
Originally by: Battle Tested
I would just like a straight up answer from CCP Nozh....What part of CCP Abathur's proposed "Supercarrier" was overpowered or broken? I want to hear it directly from you Nozh...tell us!


33 pages....
1 post from a moderator....
1 post from Nozh that just made things more fubar.....


Excuse me, but this thread is actually longer than that by over 100 posts. 3+ pages deleted. Keep using that T3 DC CCP.

Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:48:00 - [1011]
 

I have to thank CCP once again.

We had a contract for a total of 3 aeons, first one is ready to ship. The buyer refuses to buy it now.

Thanks, honestly

Chicken Breasts
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:49:00 - [1012]
 

Edited by: Chicken Breasts on 20/11/2009 17:55:47
I managed to get a hold of Nozh's "Big Picture" drawing:

Big Picture

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:49:00 - [1013]
 

Edited by: Gypsio III on 20/11/2009 17:50:28

Can someone post the raw EFT DPS numbers and ranges for each Dread using close-range guns and torps, close-range faction ammo and three damage mods, please?

Iximos
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:51:00 - [1014]
 

promote nozh to lead dev
burn eve to the ground

hail satan

Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:51:00 - [1015]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Edited by: Gypsio III on 20/11/2009 17:50:28

Can someone post the raw EFT DPS numbers and ranges for each Dread using close-range guns and torps, close-range faction ammo and three damage mods, please?


It's not very high. With Giga Beams, faction MF and three faction HS, my Revelation could do 5200 DPS. With the same damage mods and crystals, but using Giga Pulses, it was 6500 DPS. Not nearly enough damage to hamstring yourself by not having the range-choice flexibility of the Giga Beams.

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:52:00 - [1016]
 

The danger of taking a position of 'democracy' and 'transparency' - by creating the CSM to allow for player feedback, having devs interact with players at length at Fanfest, and then having a multiple-week process on SiSi for players to provide input on supercapital reform - is that now the playerbase expects CCP to behave in an accountable way.

Arbitrary, incompetent and uninvited changes decided behind closed doors are not a sign of 'excellence', nor are they the kind of behavior that the playerbase will tolerate from the 'new, reformed CCP' - the supposedly democratic, transparent company that listens to its clients, in the aftermath of the previous unpleasantness.

In theory - based on what CCP told us at Fanfest - they use the 'Scrum' development method. However, given how Nozh has unilaterally altered motherships (first 6bn isk, then they can dock, now nothing changing at all) it seems apparent that Nozh himself is able to make these abrupt switches in capital design without any restraint or consensus from the Scrum process.

The CSM is hardly happy about these changes. You can find posts from many of the CSM reps lambasting this idiocy. They are our representatives, democratically elected in a process CCP intended to bring more accountability to the company. Yet where is their impact on Nozh?

Transparency, democracy, player consensus and Scrum - all abandoned. Thank for your help, Nozh!

Will Hunter
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:53:00 - [1017]
 

Originally by: Khefron
Nozh, you're trolling us aren't you? There's no way a designer of this game can think that siege modules increase sig radius, that a capital weapon system is not supposed to do full damage to structures and capitals in siege, or that saying "use target painters" is an appropriate solution to a weapon system being completely unsuitable for engaging targets of its class.

Just spill the beans with what you're really planning on doing for Dominion already.


that ideas are problably beyond our febble minds

DeTox MinRohim
Madhatters Inc.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:53:00 - [1018]
 

There are no hands big enough to illustrate the facepalm this is provoking.

To even try to justify target painters on capital ships as if they would never siege or triage is already... ...... I'm out of word so I'll leave it for someone else:

Originally by: The Mittani
Edited by: The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.

You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.

Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.

The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.


Done!

Lira Reib
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:54:00 - [1019]
 

Originally by: Aydjile
Originally by: Christos Hendez
Originally by: The Mittani
Edited by: The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.

You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.

Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.

The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.


Completely agreeing with Mittens...now if you look at my alliance ticker, youll know this is a big deal.


i agree, with AAA's agreeing. and check my sig. that will tell you something, too...


I agree with your agreeing with AAA's agreeing.

Watching these epic threads it seems like everybody loved Abathur's cap changes and things were pretty chill. I'm trying to imagine what sort of situation would result in these being discarded overnight and I just can't come up with a scenario that makes sense.

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:54:00 - [1020]
 

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...

"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"

On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.


Thus the explosion scales? How does one preclude the other? I don't get it... "thus" means that the sentence before is the reason for the thing you're writing after. "increasing tanking" does not logically lead to an increase in damage dealt. Would you please be so kind as to reformulate?


Originally by: CCP Nozh
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.


Fair enough, so citadel torps dealing less damage on dreads/carriers than XL guns is an intended feature and got nothing to do with target painting?

Originally by: CCP Nozh

We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.


Several suggestions have been made in the past and as recently as during the CSM visit in iceland or in this thread. Like for instance increasing the aggression timer? including repping in the category of acts that count towards one's inability to dock?
We all agree that docking games suck, but since you agree that this problem needs to be tackled no matter what ship size, how does nerfing moms change anything. These problems are orthogonal...

Originally by: CCP Nozh
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.

Then why going with them dealing more damage then, or them having any damage capability at all?
I don't disagree with the concept, but don't you think doing a 180° 3 weeks before the release of Dominion is a bit, well, stupid?

You also fail to address the naglfar nerf, would you please adress that?

Thank you.

Meissa Anunthiel


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