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Igor Epocci
Minmatar
Fringe Industries EMS
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:54:00 - [871]
 

Edited by: Igor Epocci on 20/11/2009 16:04:48
wow.

I think we've been MILFed by a SoloPwnBlogMobile




ps. Can we send CCP Stiffler home now?

Ceratin
Amarr
Black Lance
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:54:00 - [872]
 

Edited by: Ceratin on 20/11/2009 15:56:20
Awesome.. so lets get this straight? we're not getting the mothership boost, titans are an 80bil isk jump bridge and your making dreads so they cant hit sub capital ships?

Can i just ask, if your going to make every capital ship incredibly boring and useless, why not totally remove them instead?

fail blog is fail

RahSun
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:59:00 - [873]
 

WTB: Dev who knows how to pilot/use large cap fleets and target painters.

Nucanot
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:01:00 - [874]
 

Keep on deleting posts, CCP. That's the right thing to do.

Here's a suggestion:
Set a constant number of pages for this thread, say 3. Then claim
the changes are well received, because only a handful of people
whined about them.

Richyp
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:03:00 - [875]
 

Originally by: Nucanot
Keep on deleting posts, CCP. That's the right thing to do.

Here's a suggestion:
Set a constant number of pages for this thread, say 3. Then claim
the changes are well received, because only a handful of people
whined about them.


First page in an epic thread

Kuar Z'thain
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:03:00 - [876]
 

Wow. I'm suddenly very glad I didn't train for caps.

So CCP, you gonna make target painters ElectronicWarfareModule=0 so we can use them on sieged Dreads and triaged Carriers? Otherwise this guy is a tard.

Take the caps away from him before you **** off more of your customer base.

Kernok
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:05:00 - [877]
 

Edited by: Kernok on 20/11/2009 16:12:42
Edited by: Kernok on 20/11/2009 16:07:48
please post your feedback here guys so we can continue to delete it
ok heres some

trying to be as constructive as possible, ccp u need to spend more time in 0.0 experiencing the gameplay that you are changing DRASTICALLY!

your pushing thru the horrible sov bits (im assuming this has to do with sov day?) rolling back the parts people liked, and im sorry but you say your trying to take feedback but there is ALOT of feedback in these threads and it doesnt appear to be getting taken.

example: "oh but ccp 15 moms can dock and undock and repair a station waaah waaah" well why dont u fix the station humping mechanics in the first place ccp instead of rolling back moms around that one complaint? make all 0.0 stations spitters (i will elaborate, you make it so when you undock you are out of dock range and headed away from the station) if 15 moms wanna try to hump a station and rep it u dock them up and then pop them 1 by 1 when they come out its that simple. i dont understand why one of the most glorious ship classes in the day has been a pos ornament for the last couple years and will continue to be over such a stupid complaint.

if youd fly thru 0.0 now ccp youd realize its getting more deserted by the day, and nobody is looking forward to dominions sov or capital changes, only the faction ships fleet finder and other features, if you really want to push something through in dominion push those things, not the broken and incomplete parts.

this patch was supposed to be exciting, all i feel is disapointment and outrage

Littleluk
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:06:00 - [878]
 

Edited by: Littleluk on 20/11/2009 16:09:11
So to balance the Titan we are going to let it fit XL weapons and do about the same damage as a dread while it gets a death ray as well to kill a few ships. Hmm I can buy a dread for 2 billion.. what was the cost on those Titans again? HEY why don't we remove BS large weapons and give them the DPS of a frigate. They could be frigates with 50k HP's and cost hundreds of times more. Who wouldn't like that? They could kill 10-20 frigates before a couple of cruisers killed it... maybe.
And this whole, "I don't understand how motherships work or what these changes were for so I am going to revert everything to the status quo because I might get fired if I screw up" is an admission of lack of basic understanding of game mechanics. Here is a clue, you design the ships. WE, the players, will figure out how to use them. IF something sucks we will tell you and you can try something else. Your sandbox not looking like you expected it too is what is SUPPOSED to happen. If something is broken we will tell you. (motherships are broken) Currently a mothership appearing on a field of battle leads the opposition to do 1 thing as a primary objective. Bubble and kill it for the epeen bonus. Just how is a mothership an effective combat ship again? Titans aren't much better. A couple of titans coming and doing a triple doomsday is scary. Any lag or luck on the opposition parts and the titan is likely to die. Solo titan is just asking to die.
I hate to say this but is there a Dev at CCP with more experience with cap fleet fights and some ideas about how to balance things? Here is another clue... you can't balance weapons without looking at resists on their targets AND various ammo types across all scenarios. Best case and worst case scenarios etc. Giga Pulse lasers are all nifty on a graph until they hit an armor tank. (3 out of 4 dreads) The best current feature of a a Naglafar is that it looks nice and is the first primary of an enemy cap fleet since it dies so quick. It is so weak that we primary them even though they do the LEAST damage with standard fits.

Sannye
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:06:00 - [879]
 

Nozh is utterly clueless in how missiles/torps work?

Newsflash for DEV NOZH :

YOU CANT TARGETPAINT SIEGED DREADS, CARRIERS IN TRIAGE, MOMS, TITANS OR ANY STRUCTURES.


There... go hide in a hole and change explotion radius back to 1000 m for citadel torps. And, change the explotion velocity to 100 m/s at least, so a TITAN CANT SPEEDTANK A BLOODY TORPEDO!

And for crying out loud - someone at CCP, get NOZH a manual, so he knows witch game he currently is wrecking....

Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:06:00 - [880]
 

Reminds me a bit to the GM who said "Just train Connections to level 7 to solve your standing issue"

I'm so not gonna buy a Mom

Zerobyte1
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:08:00 - [881]
 

Edited by: Zerobyte1 on 20/11/2009 16:08:42
So, let me get this right......

Titans are getting a death ray that can kill a mothership in 2 shots, And the HP bonus that motherships were getting is now "delayed"!!

Fighter Bombers "were" ther most exciting thing about this patch.

I really am wishing i didnt save for a year to get a Nyx.

Zee

Kuar Z'thain
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:09:00 - [882]
 

Wow, over 100 posts deleted.

Sporting that T3 Damage Control today, eh CCP?

Thank god you can't silence Chribba:
True Thread Content

Nightbird
SiN. Corp
Daisho Syndicate
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:09:00 - [883]
 

Originally by: Naomi Wildfire
Reminds me a bit to the GM who said "Just train Connections to level 7 to solve your standing issue"



... but this skill goes to 11....

Venetian Tar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:12:00 - [884]
 

New Dev blog here

Originally by: CCP Nozh
This means NO CHANGES WILL BE MADE TO MOTHERSHIPS IN DOMINION. Since they are part of the original rebalancing effort, the DEPLOYMENT OF FIGHTER BOMBERS WILL ALSO BE POSTPONED.


Ok, probably not that new as I've just read the timestamp.

Thoughts?

(Yeah, delete a constructive post, I dare you!)

cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:13:00 - [885]
 

ccp nozh should be awarded the nobel peace prize, he has made so many hostile force agree on one trem and that is most of the hate his guts sorry ccp nozh it true i have sceen posts from all the big alliance goons, IT, PL, Sys-k, Rzr, MM,-A-, Atlas and the list goes on all stating that the 1st and tested idea was good. now think about that? to get so many to agree that something is good from so many that are hostile to eachover must mean they believe it would work and that the risk of using these ships would be worth they cost.

Ccp Nozh if you are reading this please reply your lack of replys are adding to the trouble, you have yet to tell us your vision of what you want the capital fights to be like are you going for a movie idea ship at great range ponding the living day light out of each other, yes i could see that looking nice would also state why you tried to drop the moms to 10 fighters, you all about making it look nice not about how we the player pllay the game. this should be the number one rule of a dev "HOW DO THE PLAYER PLAY THIS GAME". at the end of a day that is all eve is us the players sure you made it but if we didn't play it you wouldn't be here.

so in closing change the dreads back so they can work at short range and give the ms the bonus that so many agree they need and listen to the players.

Zerobyte1
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:15:00 - [886]
 

Signed !

Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:16:00 - [887]
 

That devblog is pure comedy gold... oh wait. Rolling Eyes

Ammath
Amarr
Burning Technologies
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:17:00 - [888]
 

Edited by: Ammath on 20/11/2009 16:19:04
You know what annoys me is that CCP wasnt happy with Motherships in that they were supposed to be a logistical base, and support role to a fleet/capital fleet as the name implies. So they decided to take a short-cut and make them SuperCarriers (totally different mindset) as an anti-capital ship monster, and per many blogs and posts re-introduce a true Mothership when they had the time to build one (probably true docking, etc etc).

As people just started getting used to the idea of SuperCarriers they roll it back 2 weeks before deployment. While this may be a move to stop a possible game imbalance it really hurts those people who spent the last few months gearing up for SuperCarriers, building them, skill training, testing on SiSi etc.

The reality is if Nohz wants Motherships to really be Motherships there is a LOT, a LOT of coding that has to happen there to achieve that goal (true docking, true med facility, etc). But here are some suggestions for CCP and Nohz for what a Mothership could and should be.

The first 4 are obvious and should be almost mandatory.

1. Long Range: give it the ability to deploy its task force deep in enemy space, give them 25-50% more base range than carriers

2. Tons of Fuel/Corp-Hanger Space: To keep itself and its fleet supplied in the field.

3. Double or triple its Ship-Maint Capacity: Let it carry 10-15 Battleships, or a fleet of raiding ships.

4. More highslots: Allow them to fit a large array of support fittings to keep their task-force in space.

Optional...

5. Fighter/drone tweaks: Give them a role bonus to tracking, range, etc on their fighters/drones 10% level so their fighters are useful against a wider variety of ships so they have some offense/defensive punch.

6. Capital Energy Vamp/Neuts: Put them in game so these ships have a fighting chance against enemy capitals and a somewhat vicious specialist role.

7. Let them triage: Enough said.


The other problem is they then say the Titan should be the fleet logistical base.... well guys we don't need 2 at the super-cap level... figure it out and move on.



Zerobyte1
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:22:00 - [889]
 

Edited by: Zerobyte1 on 20/11/2009 16:23:01
I understand that there needs to be role and rebalancing. But changing the dreads and titans and leaving motherships where they are put them too far off balance.

Surly Nohz can see this. Im sure he has played the game.......maybe !!

Z

Lofe sXe
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:24:00 - [890]
 

Nozh is an obvious troll

Moctobot
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:26:00 - [891]
 

Nozh is blindingly incompetent and does not know **** please do not put him in charge of 'endgameish content'

thanks in advance,

-everyone

Raiga88
Caldari
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:29:00 - [892]
 

So MS pilot wont get a boost...but we do get a complimentary copy of Dragon Age : Origins right ?

paik
Minmatar
H A V O C
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:30:00 - [893]
 

Point of Order*

Look at Nozh Blog history it includes : Speed Nerf and Carrier nerf of 07. I dont even know what to say. So apparently judging by his blog history has been around as a dev for some time. Yet after years of working as a dev for Eve has a failed understanding of game mechanics. Seriously CCP can I have a job too I understand how target painters work. If you need a new harbinger of death Dev I can do that too. I got good ideas example: Missions are removed from game. :flexes:



CCP Nozh


C C P
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:30:00 - [894]
 

Let's see...

"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"

On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.

The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.

To illustrate how it would have worked with Fighter Bombers, you can take a look at these graphs:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.



"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."

What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.


"Docking games"

We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.


"Titans"

As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.

Shigsy
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:32:00 - [895]
 

Edited by: Shigsy on 20/11/2009 16:32:33
in after nozh

edit: i like how you completely ignored moms...

Kraken Kill
Menace ll Society
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:32:00 - [896]
 

Edited by: Kraken Kill on 20/11/2009 16:37:23
WIthin these lack of changes- will Motherships not get the jump range boost either?

Also What about Carrier Triage, it was mentioned in the First blog that the triage duration would be reduced along with the stront consumption ammount but nothing has been said since? Considering the length and amount of Hitpoints which will need repairing (stations and Hubs) will this be introduced?

Edit- I just Saw your Post.

Cleared of inappropriate content. StevieSG.

Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:33:00 - [897]
 

So we got to listing out the actual features of Dominion, that might actually release, and uhh, we realized it's quite a bit, shall we say, leaner than the promises we got six months ago.

No motherships, no assfrigs, a sov system that's not nearly as robust and "fresh" as they promised us ("Guys, you don't have to siege towers anymore, you have to siege these things instead, only there is now no human error in timing, meaning the defender can just create a giant stale mate forever, yay, isn't this going to be fun?")...and we're left with a half baked sov system.....oh and faction ships, really nice faction ships, that the empire L4 mission runners can get. Oh, I almost forget, we get death ray, tower like EHP, titans. And a gigantic nerf to dreadnought weapons.

So the "0.0" patch is giving us a crappy sov system and a bunch of faction ships for L4 mission runners to hoover up, super titans and nerfed dreadnought weapons. This is a completely awesome re-balancing of nullsec, and I for one am excited.

Lyshah
The Carebear Stare
Hydroponic Zone
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:34:00 - [898]
 

I'm really disappointed that I wont be getting a 5B supercarrier that can rep my navythron outside the staton Crying or Very sad

Battle Tested
Shiva
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:34:00 - [899]
 

"Regrettably, we've come to the point where we can no longer commit to making Motherships the monsters they're supposed to be for Dominion. However, we are going to continue refining their schematics, keep our welding torches hot and you should see them undocking from the shipyards again once we and the community are happy with their balancing."

WE, the community, WERE happy with the balanced changes from CCP Abathur.....YOU, CCP Nozh, changed it to make us unhappy with them. And all the while WE, the mothership owners, spent billions of isk for a ship that has and will remain broken after all the positive work, testing, and feedback towards it? It is YOU, the developers, who cant seem to get it right. YOU, CCP Nozh, have completely screwed up the titan, mothership, naglfar, and phoenix. THIS, capital warfare, is the most sought after pvp amongst most 0.0 players. WE, the ones who fly capital ships, have told YOU what we thought was right and wrong in these changes/fixes and yet YOU refuse to listen and/or respond to us. Do YOU expect us to just sit back and remain calm while YOU destroy the ships that we have spent so many months to fly? Convert that game time over to real life money @ 15 USD per month....in truth you are literally ripping us off. Change the isk value of a mothership to GTCs and convert those same GTCs to real life money and see how much you are ripping us off for....Is that any way to treat your customers? Do you really want to ignore your customers? Research other MMO's that aren't around anymore that were blackballed by the playerbase (I wont mention the companies b/c you ninja delete any that refer to specific ones) and you will find the #1 reason why they got blackballed is because the playerbase's feedback was ignored. History repeats itself and YOU should learn from the mistakes made in the past from other companies similiar to CCP. WE aren't telling YOU these things to troll or flame...WE are telling YOU these things because WE love the game and WE want to see it improved.

Ammath
Amarr
Burning Technologies
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:34:00 - [900]
 

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...

"Docking games"

We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.


"Titans"

As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.


So why are you adding more direct damage capability to them? Why are you not rolling back their changes along with the Mothership ones. If neither ship is meeting the role it should be in. Why is ONE getting a _BOOST_ to an area they are NOT SUPPOSED TO EVEN HAVE while the other gets NOTHING, ZIP, ZILCH, NADA.

And the philospophy of "Well Motherships have sucked for 3 years so lets lets leave them broken for another year" is crap.





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